??????
|
Post by squirz96 on Aug 16, 2019 20:03:32 GMT
So, I had revisited episode where Krilin meets Namekian Guru. Guru had asked how he knows about dragon balls.
This leads to Nameless Namekian aka original Piccolo.
Guru doubted that regular sayian defeated him. That it had to be super Saiyan.
Yet if we assume that both Kami and King Piccolo had equal power there is no way that either of them where at that level even as original being. I mean when they split their power divided into equal sections.
When Piccolo fused with kami he was at minimum Goku Kaioken X20 during Frieza battle.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 19, 2019 12:58:19 GMT
Actually their power didn't divide equally when they split from the Nameless Namekian. Think about it if you say that Piccolo pre-fusing with Kami had minimum PL of 60 million (half as strong as FP Final Form Frieza) and after fusing with Kami he had a PL strong enough to go toe-to-toe with C17 who we must assume is at least as powerful as C18, then he made an enormous jump in power. If it was additive, the fusion would've done almost nothing cuz Kami had a PL of something like 220, so he'd be slightly stronger than pre-fused Piccolo. No instead the new Piccolo aka the Nameless Namekian once more went from 50% Final Form Frieza all the way to a power greater than someone who could defeat 2 Super Saiyans, Gohan, pre-fused Piccolo, and Tien(?).
SSJ Goku (Namek): 150,000,000
I'm assuming that Trunks as SSJ and Vegeta as SSJ would each be stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek. So let's say for lowballing estimate's sake that SSJ Trunks is 200,000,000 and SSJ Vegeta is 250,000,000. I think the PLs of Gohan and Tien are too low to matter here, so we don't need to really count them.
(60 + 200 + 250) x 1,000,000 = 510,000,000
Piccolo was pretty much owning C17 until his stamina started running low. He just couldn't compete with the Infinite Energy system that C17 & C18 have powering them. So let's say that he's somewhere in the ballpark of 600,000,000.
Pre-Fused Piccolo: 60,000,000
C18: 510,000,000
C17: 510,000,000
Post-Fused Piccolo: 600,000,000
This would mean that fusing with someone who's PL was 220ish ended up making Piccolo 10x stronger or have gained an additional 540,000,000 units of power. If re-fusing together results in such a huge increase in power, the original fission must have made it to where both of them lost a considerable amount of power. Anyways if Super Saiyan is a multiplier, that doesn't mean that a Super Saiyan would need to be as powerful as SSJ Goku on Namek. A Super Saiyan could've been far weaker than that. Hell I'd say that a Super Saiyan could've maybe even had a PL 200,000 to 900,000. 200K being if the Saiyan was at a PL of 4K (Saiyan Saga Nappa) prior to transforming and 900K being if the Saiyan was at 18K (Saiyan Saga Vegeta) prior to transforming. I'd imagine Guru would be imagining a Super Saiyan to be even weaker than a theoretical SSJ Nappa during Saiyan Saga since Vegeta likely held the record for history's strongest Saiyan and Nappa was probably the 2nd strongest Saiyan in history if we go by base PLs and therefore aren't counting SSJ Bardock or Yamoshi as SSJ or SSJG.
Theoretical SSJ Nappa: 200,000
Original Nameless Namekian: Less than 200,000
If you look at it by combining all that info, then it's very likely the original Nameless Namekian might've needed a Super Saiyan to defeat him going by Saiyan PLs of that era.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Sept 28, 2019 4:20:16 GMT
So, I had revisited episode where Krilin meets Namekian Guru. Guru had asked how he knows about dragon balls. This leads to Nameless Namekian aka original Piccolo. Guru doubted that regular sayian defeated him. That it had to be super Saiyan. Yet if we assume that both Kami and King Piccolo had equal power there is no way that either of them where at that level even as original being. I mean when they split their power divided into equal sections. When Piccolo fused with kami he was at minimum Goku Kaioken X20 during Frieza battle. Guru knew of Kami's linage and the only living Namek at the time who had any knowledge of Namek's history before the disaster that nearly wiped out their race. When he made those statements it is important to remember he was comparing Kami to his family. It is possible he was thinking that Kami before he split himself into two and cut his power in half was much stronger than he actually was before the separation or he assumed with training and growth that Kami would likely be stronger than most Saiyans. We also have to remember that Kami lost his memory when he came to Earth. I believe even in the manga he said he stayed by his ship for several years before he finally left as an adult. That likely means he didn't train a whole lot from his childhood to adulthood. That could have stagnated his power from the kind of leaps and bounds he most likely could and should have achieved based on what Guru said about Kami's linage and potential. He was likely crazy strong by Earth's standards, but probably a far cry from what his father was doing at the same age on Namek.
My guess is Kami really only started training properly when he met the Kami of Earth before him and he made great progress, but than he had to expel all the evil in his heart, which lead him to splitting himself into two. I'm willing to wager by the time he split that the original Namek's power level was likely not even at 1,000. It could have been as low as 400 and when he split into Kami and Piccolo their power was at 200. That would fit with how things played out in Dragon Ball without being a plot hole. The original Namek had a lot of natural talent in magic and fighting potential. If he had trained intensely in his childhood he likely would have been a beast as an adult, but because of the memory lost and him staying at his ship before he started wandering the world before he met the Kami of Earth before him he just didn't train as much as he should have to live up to his potential. By the time of the split he had a low power level. The split also split his potential and talent despite Kami training regularly to succeed his master he gains were much slower than they should have been. Demon King Piccolo was already stronger than most if not all of humanity at the time he never needed a reason to train and just terrorized the Earth.
It's not until Goku enters the picture and defeats Piccolo Senior that the new Piccolo would start training intensely that he started to live up to his split potential. Guru's statement about how Kami should have been too strong for a normal Saiyan to kill him is true, because the potential he had should have been enough. Unfortunately a lot of other factors came into play that prevented the Namek from living up to said potential and made him a easy target for even low level Saiyans. In other words he is sort of like Gohan in that regards. Great potential that likely means he should rarely lose, but without the training the actual power is less impressive.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Sept 28, 2019 8:02:31 GMT
Son Pan did you read my comment in this thread too (the only other comment than yours and the original post itself)? I'm assuming either you didn't read it OR you didn't agree with it. Anyways I think that the original Nameless Namekian must've been much stronger than 400 or even 1,000 as when Piccolo assimiliated Kami "back into himself" (not really truly back since Kami and his father were once one, not Kami & Piccolo Jr though I guess Piccolo Jr is sorta Piccolo Sr since Piccolo Sr put all his essence and likely his very own soul into the PJ egg and that's why Piccolo Jr looks like a regular Namekian and not a corrupted Namekian aka demon) he didn't add Kami's PL to his own, but instead gained power even more than he himself had pre-assimilation of Kami. The same is true for when Piccolo assimilated Nail into himself in that it wasn't additive, but an exponential increase in power. I therefore like to think it's possible that the Nameless Namekian (Piccolo Daimao as GT calls him) could've had some unknown amount much greater than 1,000, but less than 200,000 which would be a hypothetical SSJ Nappa during Saiyan Saga. I'm 100% certain that Namekians that Guru spit out when he was in his youth or that other Dragon Clan members spit out during their youths would be much stronger than the variety that older Guru spit out after the calamity. The reason being that youth restored Piccolo Sr spit out much more powerful demons than the ones he was capable of spitting out when he was old. This combined with the fact that he's much weaker cuz he's only half a real Namekian, in the sense that he and Kami are a complete Namekian with likely half a soul each, (this actually makes the life link more understandable if you think about it) means that a proper complete Namekian at full power would likely be able to spit out much more powerful children. Related Discussion That's Off Topic for the Thread (Not Necessary to Read)I think it's actually very likely that the original pre-calamity Namekian species was a species with Captain Ginyu vicinity PLs as the original Namekians hatched from eggs spit out of young Dragon Clan Namekians should've had much higher PLs. If this educated guess of mine (based off of the evidence I gathered and it's educated guesswork that I compiled in my first post and that I briefly touched upon in this one) is true, then could you imagine how pissed off Frieza would've been prior to Vegeta and the Earthlings arrival if pre-calamity Namekian society still existed during the Namek Saga. Imagine Frieza being pissed because those damned slugs were strong enough that even the Ginyu Force would be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers meaning that he'd have to enter his 3rd or Final Form to take care of those pesky slugs himself. I don't think he'd be too happy that he had to do all the dirty work of killing off the Namekian villages one by one so he could get the DBs; after all it's likely that in situations where he had to do the dirty work himself he just resorted to blowing up the planet because it wasn't worth him putting all that time and effort to conquer a single planet, but such an option would be available here since he so desperately wanted to become immortal. Wow it's even possible that he'd have slaughtered all his forces except Zarbon and Dodoria in order to keep his higher forms a secret from the majority of his Frieza Forces (I'd imagine that Zarbon and Dodoria were already privy to that info so he'd have no need to kill them to keep his higher forms a secret that only his 2nd form was rumored to possibly exist). It's also possible that he'd have in his possession all the balls before Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan arrived, but only just barely having gathered the final one so as to explain why he hadn't already blown up Namek after giving up after failing to summon the dragon no matter how hard he tried (I think his patience is so low that he'd have figured the balls to be a dud or something after failing to get them to make him immortal no matter how hard he'd try [honestly he wouldn't even know about them summoning a dragon that grants the wish unless one of the Namekian Elders told him after being tortured by Frieza]).
Anyways enough of that talk since that's just diving into a different subject that is basically What-IF the Calamity Didn't Kill Off the Original Namekian Society with the Guru Being the Sole Survivor?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Sept 30, 2019 19:03:04 GMT
Son Pan did you read my comment in this thread too (the only other comment than yours and the original post itself)? I'm assuming either you didn't read it OR you didn't agree with it. Anyways I think that the original Nameless Namekian must've been much stronger than 400 or even 1,000 as when Piccolo assimiliated Kami "back into himself" (not really truly back since Kami and his father were once one, not Kami & Piccolo Jr though I guess Piccolo Jr is sorta Piccolo Sr since Piccolo Sr put all his essence and likely his very own soul into the PJ egg and that's why Piccolo Jr looks like a regular Namekian and not a corrupted Namekian aka demon) he didn't add Kami's PL to his own, but instead gained power even more than he himself had pre-assimilation of Kami. The same is true for when Piccolo assimilated Nail into himself in that it wasn't additive, but an exponential increase in power. I therefore like to think it's possible that the Nameless Namekian (Piccolo Daimao as GT calls him) could've had some unknown amount much greater than 1,000, but less than 200,000 which would be a hypothetical SSJ Nappa during Saiyan Saga. I'm 100% certain that Namekians that Guru spit out when he was in his youth or that other Dragon Clan members spit out during their youths would be much stronger than the variety that older Guru spit out after the calamity. The reason being that youth restored Piccolo Sr spit out much more powerful demons than the ones he was capable of spitting out when he was old. This combined with the fact that he's much weaker cuz he's only half a real Namekian, in the sense that he and Kami are a complete Namekian with likely half a soul each, (this actually makes the life link more understandable if you think about it) means that a proper complete Namekian at full power would likely be able to spit out much more powerful children. Related Discussion That's Off Topic for the Thread (Not Necessary to Read)I think it's actually very likely that the original pre-calamity Namekian species was a species with Captain Ginyu vicinity PLs as the original Namekians hatched from eggs spit out of young Dragon Clan Namekians should've had much higher PLs. If this educated guess of mine (based off of the evidence I gathered and it's educated guesswork that I compiled in my first post and that I briefly touched upon in this one) is true, then could you imagine how pissed off Frieza would've been prior to Vegeta and the Earthlings arrival if pre-calamity Namekian society still existed during the Namek Saga. Imagine Frieza being pissed because those damned slugs were strong enough that even the Ginyu Force would be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers meaning that he'd have to enter his 3rd or Final Form to take care of those pesky slugs himself. I don't think he'd be too happy that he had to do all the dirty work of killing off the Namekian villages one by one so he could get the DBs; after all it's likely that in situations where he had to do the dirty work himself he just resorted to blowing up the planet because it wasn't worth him putting all that time and effort to conquer a single planet, but such an option would be available here since he so desperately wanted to become immortal. Wow it's even possible that he'd have slaughtered all his forces except Zarbon and Dodoria in order to keep his higher forms a secret from the majority of his Frieza Forces (I'd imagine that Zarbon and Dodoria were already privy to that info so he'd have no need to kill them to keep his higher forms a secret that only his 2nd form was rumored to possibly exist). It's also possible that he'd have in his possession all the balls before Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan arrived, but only just barely having gathered the final one so as to explain why he hadn't already blown up Namek after giving up after failing to summon the dragon no matter how hard he tried (I think his patience is so low that he'd have figured the balls to be a dud or something after failing to get them to make him immortal no matter how hard he'd try [honestly he wouldn't even know about them summoning a dragon that grants the wish unless one of the Namekian Elders told him after being tortured by Frieza]).
Anyways enough of that talk since that's just diving into a different subject that is basically What-IF the Calamity Didn't Kill Off the Original Namekian Society with the Guru Being the Sole Survivor? The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000. |
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 1, 2019 5:01:32 GMT
Son Pan did you read my comment in this thread too (the only other comment than yours and the original post itself)? I'm assuming either you didn't read it OR you didn't agree with it. Anyways I think that the original Nameless Namekian must've been much stronger than 400 or even 1,000 as when Piccolo assimiliated Kami "back into himself" (not really truly back since Kami and his father were once one, not Kami & Piccolo Jr though I guess Piccolo Jr is sorta Piccolo Sr since Piccolo Sr put all his essence and likely his very own soul into the PJ egg and that's why Piccolo Jr looks like a regular Namekian and not a corrupted Namekian aka demon) he didn't add Kami's PL to his own, but instead gained power even more than he himself had pre-assimilation of Kami. The same is true for when Piccolo assimilated Nail into himself in that it wasn't additive, but an exponential increase in power. I therefore like to think it's possible that the Nameless Namekian (Piccolo Daimao as GT calls him) could've had some unknown amount much greater than 1,000, but less than 200,000 which would be a hypothetical SSJ Nappa during Saiyan Saga. I'm 100% certain that Namekians that Guru spit out when he was in his youth or that other Dragon Clan members spit out during their youths would be much stronger than the variety that older Guru spit out after the calamity. The reason being that youth restored Piccolo Sr spit out much more powerful demons than the ones he was capable of spitting out when he was old. This combined with the fact that he's much weaker cuz he's only half a real Namekian, in the sense that he and Kami are a complete Namekian with likely half a soul each, (this actually makes the life link more understandable if you think about it) means that a proper complete Namekian at full power would likely be able to spit out much more powerful children. Related Discussion That's Off Topic for the Thread (Not Necessary to Read)I think it's actually very likely that the original pre-calamity Namekian species was a species with Captain Ginyu vicinity PLs as the original Namekians hatched from eggs spit out of young Dragon Clan Namekians should've had much higher PLs. If this educated guess of mine (based off of the evidence I gathered and it's educated guesswork that I compiled in my first post and that I briefly touched upon in this one) is true, then could you imagine how pissed off Frieza would've been prior to Vegeta and the Earthlings arrival if pre-calamity Namekian society still existed during the Namek Saga. Imagine Frieza being pissed because those damned slugs were strong enough that even the Ginyu Force would be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers meaning that he'd have to enter his 3rd or Final Form to take care of those pesky slugs himself. I don't think he'd be too happy that he had to do all the dirty work of killing off the Namekian villages one by one so he could get the DBs; after all it's likely that in situations where he had to do the dirty work himself he just resorted to blowing up the planet because it wasn't worth him putting all that time and effort to conquer a single planet, but such an option would be available here since he so desperately wanted to become immortal. Wow it's even possible that he'd have slaughtered all his forces except Zarbon and Dodoria in order to keep his higher forms a secret from the majority of his Frieza Forces (I'd imagine that Zarbon and Dodoria were already privy to that info so he'd have no need to kill them to keep his higher forms a secret that only his 2nd form was rumored to possibly exist). It's also possible that he'd have in his possession all the balls before Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan arrived, but only just barely having gathered the final one so as to explain why he hadn't already blown up Namek after giving up after failing to summon the dragon no matter how hard he tried (I think his patience is so low that he'd have figured the balls to be a dud or something after failing to get them to make him immortal no matter how hard he'd try [honestly he wouldn't even know about them summoning a dragon that grants the wish unless one of the Namekian Elders told him after being tortured by Frieza]).
Anyways enough of that talk since that's just diving into a different subject that is basically What-IF the Calamity Didn't Kill Off the Original Namekian Society with the Guru Being the Sole Survivor? The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000.
Okay your explanation for Nameless Namekian (Son of Katas) splitting into two being a division of power and them refusing being an exponential increase works if that was the only Namekian Fusion that happened in the show, but it kinda falls apart when you take into account that Piccolo fused with Nail and that power increase was exponential as well (just not as exponential as Piccolo fusing with Kami). Your explanation for Piccolo fusing with Kami explains how that fusion resulted in an exponential increase, but that explanation can't really transfer over to Piccolo fusing with Nail since Nail and Piccolo were never originally one being and your Piccolo and Kami exponential increase explanation works off the fact that they were originally one being.
As a result I think my explanation works better maybe with a touch of yours for the Piccolo fusing with Kami part. So what I means is that fission would result in an exponential decrease in power just like fusion results in an exponential increase in power, but a refusing of two that had previously been created thru fission would result in a greater exponential increase because they were originally one being and there is also the factoring in of what their original potential was and how powerful they both would've been if they both had trained the same amount as the one who had trained the most prior to the refusing into a single entity once more.
Now I'm not saying that the original Nameless Namekian would've had to be as powerful as SSJ Nappa, I was more along the lines of trying to say that would probably be the strongest he could've been. If we want to use PLs of Saiyans from the backstory flashback at the beginning of DBS: Broly then I believe Saiyans of the time shortly of about 5 years before Planet Vegeta was destroyed were in the 1,000 to 2,000 range for high PLs with extreme rare exceptions for those like the future Prince Vegeta who had unnatural beyond average Saiyan talent and therefore as a result have a much higher than average PL for a Saiyan Elite. That means that it's possible that a hypothetical SSJ from 5 years before Planet Vegeta was destroyed could have a PL of 50,000 for the low end of Saiyan Elites and that low class Saiyans could very well have had a hypothetical SSJ PL of 25,000.
This means if we want to consider that for a hypothetical PL of a Nameless Namekian as strong as a Super Saiyan, it's possible that the Nameless Namekian had a PL in the range of 25,000-200,000, so the lowest possible PL could've been 25,000. I actually think a PL of 25,000 makes sense because if I recall correctly + what I looked up on the Wiki for additional info, it would seem that Guru thought that Kami must've been a Super Saiyan (this happens before he learns that the Nameless Namekian split into 2 [he had thought Kami was the Nameless Namekian before he read the planet's history]).
Now that I've looked up the info about what Guru thought about the Nameless Namekian, I think it's possible that prior to the split that the Nameless Namekian might've had a PL in the 2,000-3,000 range and that if he had stayed the Nameless Namekian that by the time Vegeta and Nappa arrived on Earth 300 years later that he'd have a PL of 25,000-200,000. 300 years to reach Super Saiyan levels in between Hypothetical SSJ Saiyan Elite of 5 yrs pre-destruction of Planet Vegeta up to hypothetical SSJ Nappa makes sense. After all I 300 years is a lot of time to train and I'd imagine that there'd be no rush to train super intensely since it seems that Z-Fighters gain post-end-of-DB were caused by more intense training outta necessity to avoid losing to major threat that would be much stronger than them. Also it seems PL gains during training are of some sorta percentage gain based off of current PL so the stronger you get the more gains you'd get in the same amount of time as previous training sessions.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Oct 1, 2019 6:45:52 GMT
The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000.
Okay your explanation for Nameless Namekian (Son of Katas) splitting into two being a division of power and them refusing being an exponential increase works if that was the only Namekian Fusion that happened in the show, but it kinda falls apart when you take into account that Piccolo fused with Nail and that power increase was exponential as well (just not as exponential as Piccolo fusing with Kami). Your explanation for Piccolo fusing with Kami explains how that fusion resulted in an exponential increase, but that explanation can't really transfer over to Piccolo fusing with Nail since Nail and Piccolo were never originally one being and your Piccolo and Kami exponential increase explanation works off the fact that they were originally one being.
As a result I think my explanation works better maybe with a touch of yours for the Piccolo fusing with Kami part. So what I means is that fission would result in an exponential decrease in power just like fusion results in an exponential increase in power, but a refusing of two that had previously been created thru fission would result in a greater exponential increase because they were originally one being and there is also the factoring in of what their original potential was and how powerful they both would've been if they both had trained the same amount as the one who had trained the most prior to the refusing into a single entity once more.
Now I'm not saying that the original Nameless Namekian would've had to be as powerful as SSJ Nappa, I was more along the lines of trying to say that would probably be the strongest he could've been. If we want to use PLs of Saiyans from the backstory flashback at the beginning of DBS: Broly then I believe Saiyans of the time shortly of about 5 years before Planet Vegeta was destroyed were in the 1,000 to 2,000 range for high PLs with extreme rare exceptions for those like the future Prince Vegeta who had unnatural beyond average Saiyan talent and therefore as a result have a much higher than average PL for a Saiyan Elite. That means that it's possible that a hypothetical SSJ from 5 years before Planet Vegeta was destroyed could have a PL of 50,000 for the low end of Saiyan Elites and that low class Saiyans could very well have had a hypothetical SSJ PL of 25,000.
This means if we want to consider that for a hypothetical PL of a Nameless Namekian as strong as a Super Saiyan, it's possible that the Nameless Namekian had a PL in the range of 25,000-200,000, so the lowest possible PL could've been 25,000. I actually think a PL of 25,000 makes sense because if I recall correctly + what I looked up on the Wiki for additional info, it would seem that Guru thought that Kami must've been a Super Saiyan (this happens before he learns that the Nameless Namekian split into 2 [he had thought Kami was the Nameless Namekian before he read the planet's history]).
Now that I've looked up the info about what Guru thought about the Nameless Namekian, I think it's possible that prior to the split that the Nameless Namekian might've had a PL in the 2,000-3,000 range and that if he had stayed the Nameless Namekian that by the time Vegeta and Nappa arrived on Earth 300 years later that he'd have a PL of 25,000-200,000. 300 years to reach Super Saiyan levels in between Hypothetical SSJ Saiyan Elite of 5 yrs pre-destruction of Planet Vegeta up to hypothetical SSJ Nappa makes sense. After all I 300 years is a lot of time to train and I'd imagine that there'd be no rush to train super intensely since it seems that Z-Fighters gain post-end-of-DB were caused by more intense training outta necessity to avoid losing to major threat that would be much stronger than them. Also it seems PL gains during training are of some sorta percentage gain based off of current PL so the stronger you get the more gains you'd get in the same amount of time as previous training sessions.
I think Piccolo assimilating Nail to increase his power actually helped make the reunion with Kami an even bigger power boost than it was meant to be. Since Namek's version of fusion, assimilation, works by increasing the chosen base of the fusion's power several times. Nail was the strongest Namek at the time and the only true warrior class born from the Great Elder/Guru, which made him one of the strongest warriors at the time, 42,000 being considered absurdly strong to Freeza's people. Nail knew that by merging with Piccolo that it would increase their power exponentially right out of the gate. Nail suggested to do it as a substitute for Piccolo not returning back whole and working with less of his potential and talent at the time. In my opinion Nail also being a huge boost doesn't really stop Kami from being a huge boost as well. Since it seems assimilation technique was always meant to be a huge boost depending on the two individuals.
I think we should consider that while Piccolo fused with Nail and Kami that they weren't exactly the same thing. Kami and Piccolo were original one being that had their power divided up among them when they split. There was always the option to reunite for them and I think it is a bit different from what Piccolo and Nail did. Whereas Nail used an ability or technique Nameks developed to act as a boost for Piccolo despite being a whole Namek. It is probably better to say that despite having the same results that Nail and Kami fusion are sort of like Fusion Dance and Potara. They both work by combing two different beings into a new stronger one, but work under different mechanics. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Mar 29, 2020 4:05:26 GMT
Kami may have sealed part of his power before he divided so that his Evil Self wouldn't outclass the planet so entirely.
But I theorized Namekian Fusion isn't an addition or multiplication, it may be just the awakening of certain abilities or redundancies in certain abilities. Think when you play a game and you have skill trees in one game you max out only in the speed tree, and in the other you divide between speed, power attacks, and magic. Maybe Namekian fusion then would be being able to learn all the skills the other Namek took, even if they already had say a speed increaser you normally only take once they then have it twice. This could look from an outside perspective as an exponential increase but the internal math is probably more like something like your 50% efficiency increaser becomes a 150% increaser combined with a higher number that is being increased.
Its like how you can take Enchantment Potions to gimmick the Alchemy Enchantement system in Skyrim.
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Apr 6, 2020 3:44:34 GMT
Son Pan did you read my comment in this thread too (the only other comment than yours and the original post itself)? I'm assuming either you didn't read it OR you didn't agree with it. Anyways I think that the original Nameless Namekian must've been much stronger than 400 or even 1,000 as when Piccolo assimiliated Kami "back into himself" (not really truly back since Kami and his father were once one, not Kami & Piccolo Jr though I guess Piccolo Jr is sorta Piccolo Sr since Piccolo Sr put all his essence and likely his very own soul into the PJ egg and that's why Piccolo Jr looks like a regular Namekian and not a corrupted Namekian aka demon) he didn't add Kami's PL to his own, but instead gained power even more than he himself had pre-assimilation of Kami. The same is true for when Piccolo assimilated Nail into himself in that it wasn't additive, but an exponential increase in power. I therefore like to think it's possible that the Nameless Namekian (Piccolo Daimao as GT calls him) could've had some unknown amount much greater than 1,000, but less than 200,000 which would be a hypothetical SSJ Nappa during Saiyan Saga. I'm 100% certain that Namekians that Guru spit out when he was in his youth or that other Dragon Clan members spit out during their youths would be much stronger than the variety that older Guru spit out after the calamity. The reason being that youth restored Piccolo Sr spit out much more powerful demons than the ones he was capable of spitting out when he was old. This combined with the fact that he's much weaker cuz he's only half a real Namekian, in the sense that he and Kami are a complete Namekian with likely half a soul each, (this actually makes the life link more understandable if you think about it) means that a proper complete Namekian at full power would likely be able to spit out much more powerful children. Related Discussion That's Off Topic for the Thread (Not Necessary to Read)I think it's actually very likely that the original pre-calamity Namekian species was a species with Captain Ginyu vicinity PLs as the original Namekians hatched from eggs spit out of young Dragon Clan Namekians should've had much higher PLs. If this educated guess of mine (based off of the evidence I gathered and it's educated guesswork that I compiled in my first post and that I briefly touched upon in this one) is true, then could you imagine how pissed off Frieza would've been prior to Vegeta and the Earthlings arrival if pre-calamity Namekian society still existed during the Namek Saga. Imagine Frieza being pissed because those damned slugs were strong enough that even the Ginyu Force would be overwhelmed by their sheer numbers meaning that he'd have to enter his 3rd or Final Form to take care of those pesky slugs himself. I don't think he'd be too happy that he had to do all the dirty work of killing off the Namekian villages one by one so he could get the DBs; after all it's likely that in situations where he had to do the dirty work himself he just resorted to blowing up the planet because it wasn't worth him putting all that time and effort to conquer a single planet, but such an option would be available here since he so desperately wanted to become immortal. Wow it's even possible that he'd have slaughtered all his forces except Zarbon and Dodoria in order to keep his higher forms a secret from the majority of his Frieza Forces (I'd imagine that Zarbon and Dodoria were already privy to that info so he'd have no need to kill them to keep his higher forms a secret that only his 2nd form was rumored to possibly exist). It's also possible that he'd have in his possession all the balls before Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan arrived, but only just barely having gathered the final one so as to explain why he hadn't already blown up Namek after giving up after failing to summon the dragon no matter how hard he tried (I think his patience is so low that he'd have figured the balls to be a dud or something after failing to get them to make him immortal no matter how hard he'd try [honestly he wouldn't even know about them summoning a dragon that grants the wish unless one of the Namekian Elders told him after being tortured by Frieza]).
Anyways enough of that talk since that's just diving into a different subject that is basically What-IF the Calamity Didn't Kill Off the Original Namekian Society with the Guru Being the Sole Survivor? The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000. If piccolo merging with kami was a multiplier, the nameless one when he split was not an even split, but a division as well as a subtracted split. So, lets put the nameless one at 1 million, then he splits. kami has like 400 when young and king piccolo is 250 when young. If they merge together again, their back to one million or close to it as the merging process is a multiplier like fusion. Vegetto for example wasn't a simple addition either, and when they split its not vegettos power cut in half between them, its the defusion process giving them back their original power, and for the nameless one its the reverse. Nail does make them stronger than the original nameless one, and hes a warrior type namek so he has even more potential for fighting, or one would assume. The separation process is like reverse fusion, and each one is less than the original. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 8, 2020 6:02:54 GMT
The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000. If piccolo merging with kami was a multiplier, the nameless one when he split was not an even split, but a division as well as a subtracted split. So, lets put the nameless one at 1 million, then he splits. kami has like 400 when young and king piccolo is 250 when young. If they merge together again, their back to one million or close to it as the merging process is a multiplier like fusion. Vegetto for example wasn't a simple addition either, and when they split its not vegettos power cut in half between them, its the defusion process giving them back their original power, and for the nameless one its the reverse. Nail does make them stronger than the original nameless one, and hes a warrior type namek so he has even more potential for fighting, or one would assume. The separation process is like reverse fusion, and each one is less than the original. This is why I believe the Nameless Namek Mystically Sealed his power before he split. because he felt it would be too dangerous to have a beefed out Id running around. But again I don't think Namek is so much a multiplier or addition, I think it unlocks power, and gives you techniques power and disciplines of both beings, this results in boosts that aren't as easy to summarize by calling them Multipliers or Additions. |
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Apr 8, 2020 20:40:47 GMT
If piccolo merging with kami was a multiplier, the nameless one when he split was not an even split, but a division as well as a subtracted split. So, lets put the nameless one at 1 million, then he splits. kami has like 400 when young and king piccolo is 250 when young. If they merge together again, their back to one million or close to it as the merging process is a multiplier like fusion. Vegetto for example wasn't a simple addition either, and when they split its not vegettos power cut in half between them, its the defusion process giving them back their original power, and for the nameless one its the reverse. Nail does make them stronger than the original nameless one, and hes a warrior type namek so he has even more potential for fighting, or one would assume. The separation process is like reverse fusion, and each one is less than the original. This is why I believe the Nameless Namek Mystically Sealed his power before he split. because he felt it would be too dangerous to have a beefed out Id running around. But again I don't think Namek is so much a multiplier or addition, I think it unlocks power, and gives you techniques power and disciplines of both beings, this results in boosts that aren't as easy to summarize by calling them Multipliers or Additions. I disagree. He didn't need to do that, and as long as he was stronger than piccolo, it wouldn't have mattered. he never used his power as kami, despite beign the strongest on earth for what was probably centuries. If he was afraid of his power, that seems like a good thing to have introduced in the manga or anime. The idea that kamicollo would have "regained" his original power was a plot point brought about by nail and guru. The process of splitting was what made them weaker, not the fear of too much power in kamis hands, and as a being of pure good as kami, he wouldn't have had that pressure. So far the idea of the seperation process of namekians being a subtraction, and division is my own fan theory, as it seems to be implied that is the case. The nameless one was said to be so strong "only a ssj" could beat him. yet even added together the 2 are less than radditz added together. I don't mind the idea of kami "fearing his power" as its pretty cool, but there isn't any proof of these feelings in the manga or anime. He simply wanted to shed his evil side to become pure and able to become god of earth. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 9, 2020 5:29:07 GMT
I mean the problem is them fusing and being super powerful was a new plot point plucked ex nihilos. It didn't exist originally and was introduced later and they didn't dwell on it too much. That is why I think the original Namek nerfed himself. I mean even if he was as strong or stronger then his evil half it wouldn't be safe for everyone on Earth if they were as strong as Nappa much less something like Vegeta or Captain Ginyu or Frieza. One slip up and genocide happens. And His evil side could make Children and them all together could grow stronger then Kami. He probably wouldn't want Devils the strength of the Ginyu Force Running around, which might have happened in Universe 3.
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Apr 9, 2020 17:19:34 GMT
I mean the problem is them fusing and being super powerful was a new plot point plucked ex nihilos. It didn't exist originally and was introduced later and they didn't dwell on it too much. That is why I think the original Namek nerfed himself. I mean even if he was as strong or stronger then his evil half it wouldn't be safe for everyone on Earth if they were as strong as Nappa much less something like Vegeta or Captain Ginyu or Frieza. One slip up and genocide happens. And His evil side could make Children and them all together could grow stronger then Kami. He probably wouldn't want Devils the strength of the Ginyu Force Running around, which might have happened in Universe 3. A lot of that actually happened, so that kind of makes this plot point meaningless. in db piccolo went ona genocidal rampage, and even though kami was still stronger, he couldn't do anything as kami. So nerfing himself is a meaningless thing to do on purpose. And supposing he could nerf himself, king piccolo could use the dragon balls to un-nerf himself and leave kami as weak as he was. And piccolo went on to surpass kami through paltry training. So while I think namekian fusion would have reset the 2 back to where they were, the dividing process had the opposite effect and split them as though the power difference were like gotenks splitting into goten and trunks. |
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 10, 2020 2:34:12 GMT
The biggest issue I have with Kami having such a high power before splitting himself in two is I don’t think it explains where all that power went. Both Kami and Piccolo would have a very small fraction of their original self’s true power if they had anything above 1,000 power level. To me it makes more sense that when they split they did actually divide their power in half originally since accounts for all the power they had. Personally I don’t think re-merging with them would be additive at all, but multiplier based on how strong the two halves had gotten. Since Piccolo was so strong upon reintegrating Kami into his body that it boosted his existing power exponentially because it restored that full potential and talent that they lost by splitting. I admit this more head canon and trying to reconcile how earlier Dragon Ball fits with later entries, such as Kami being talented and powerful yet when he split he turned out so weak. Since he left Namek as a kid at a time where he is likely not trained as well he would have and ended up on a weak planet it makes sense to me Kami just didn’t have high power level or realized a lot of his potential before the split. Maybe if he and Piccolo hadn’t split up when he began training to become the new god maybe he would have obtained like a high power level like 100,000 or 200,000. If piccolo merging with kami was a multiplier, the nameless one when he split was not an even split, but a division as well as a subtracted split. So, lets put the nameless one at 1 million, then he splits. kami has like 400 when young and king piccolo is 250 when young. If they merge together again, their back to one million or close to it as the merging process is a multiplier like fusion. Vegetto for example wasn't a simple addition either, and when they split its not vegettos power cut in half between them, its the defusion process giving them back their original power, and for the nameless one its the reverse. Nail does make them stronger than the original nameless one, and hes a warrior type namek so he has even more potential for fighting, or one would assume. The separation process is like reverse fusion, and each one is less than the original. I still feel like it was originally an even split. I just don’t think a young Kami was nearly as strong as Nail and the Elder thought he was. In my head canon I think the even split idea can work, but the original just didn’t live up to his potential for whatever reason. I can even make sense of Kami continuing his training after he split from Piccolo to get ahead of him while Piccolo was content to tormenting the human race. Piccolo didn’t really seem to see the merit until he reincarnated into Junior. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 10, 2020 3:31:12 GMT
I mean the problem is them fusing and being super powerful was a new plot point plucked ex nihilos. It didn't exist originally and was introduced later and they didn't dwell on it too much. That is why I think the original Namek nerfed himself. I mean even if he was as strong or stronger then his evil half it wouldn't be safe for everyone on Earth if they were as strong as Nappa much less something like Vegeta or Captain Ginyu or Frieza. One slip up and genocide happens. And His evil side could make Children and them all together could grow stronger then Kami. He probably wouldn't want Devils the strength of the Ginyu Force Running around, which might have happened in Universe 3. A lot of that actually happened, so that kind of makes this plot point meaningless. in db piccolo went ona genocidal rampage, and even though kami was still stronger, he couldn't do anything as kami. So nerfing himself is a meaningless thing to do on purpose. And supposing he could nerf himself, king piccolo could use the dragon balls to un-nerf himself and leave kami as weak as he was. And piccolo went on to surpass kami through paltry training. So while I think namekian fusion would have reset the 2 back to where they were, the dividing process had the opposite effect and split them as though the power difference were like gotenks splitting into goten and trunks. Well no I don't think that Pickles would have been Mafubaed if he was closer to Frieza level then Ranfan level. And we have no indication Grand Supreme Kai lobotomized himself but Multiverse did it that way and it makes sense, even though I wouldn't have don't it with literal lobotomy I just assumed he was just stupid because lack of aggression and focus makes him naïve due to innocence mixing with evil causing dissonance. |
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Apr 10, 2020 5:17:10 GMT
A lot of that actually happened, so that kind of makes this plot point meaningless. in db piccolo went ona genocidal rampage, and even though kami was still stronger, he couldn't do anything as kami. So nerfing himself is a meaningless thing to do on purpose. And supposing he could nerf himself, king piccolo could use the dragon balls to un-nerf himself and leave kami as weak as he was. And piccolo went on to surpass kami through paltry training. So while I think namekian fusion would have reset the 2 back to where they were, the dividing process had the opposite effect and split them as though the power difference were like gotenks splitting into goten and trunks. Well no I don't think that Pickles would have been Mafubaed if he was closer to Frieza level then Ranfan level. And we have no indication Grand Supreme Kai lobotomized himself but Multiverse did it that way and it makes sense, even though I wouldn't have don't it with literal lobotomy I just assumed he was just stupid because lack of aggression and focus makes him naïve due to innocence mixing with evil causing dissonance. mafuuba isn't an attack that can be blocked by being stronger. it worked on zamasu for example. It simply kills the user in some cases if the user is too weak to sustain it, or if the user isn't experienced enough, as roshi somehow mastered the technique in the TOP. Also, dbs would assertsupreme kai was NOT lobotimized. he is a fully capable person with his full mental faculties, and has access to all his memories from before, as well as any techniques. He just lacks the god ki to use them, and thats due to his ki being transferred to kid buu. @son pan as to kami being equal to piccolo, this is simply head canon. By watching the anime its stated that piccolo was weaker, and when confronting piccolo he was surprised that he was stronger,  I doubt kami ever trained, as when given the oppurtunity to train on king kais planet, he refused and stayed in heaven. Beign a god he was never shown the inclination to train, nor was he shown involving himself when training goku, stating he left all of his training to popo.   in all honesty, all the evidence would suggest he didn't train. In most situations in a discussion, I don't have to prove that a thing didn't happen. This is a logical fallacy called "proving a negative". So while I don't have to prove that he didn't train, one must however prove that he did. So for example, if I wanted to prove goku was an alien, I'd merely have to open the manga, or anime to show you that part where radditz comes down and exposits this much. The alien race is called the "saiyan" race or also called a "saiya-jin". What evidence is there to suggest that kami trained at all? He has some techniques to be sure, but thats perhaps an entirely different thing than something akin to strength training. Creating techniques, strategies and so on doesn't mean building up your strength. Freeza never trained, but he knew how to fly, create planet killing techniques and kienzans and could control them. We also know he didn't train before FNF and that he trained for roughly 4 months. I can prove freeza did train after being ressurected according to his words, and some training montages in dbs. This is a fact easily proven. The proof that kami trained comes from seemingly no where. Now, I'd also like to point out that training another person does not prove that the person has trained themselves. I can pay someone to train me in a gym, and the most they are required to do is coach me on what to do, not that they would necessarily do so themselves, and kami had little to no involvement with goku. and even if he was training the humans before vegeta arrived, he was no stronger than before and was not even in the fight. I don't minf that you have a head canon, but its currently a theory that is unproven in terms of canon. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 10, 2020 6:59:23 GMT
Kami definitely trains, but his training isn't Martial Kami is not a warrior he is a sage, he concentrates on enlightenment, he is only strong compared to ningen.
Super isn't the best reference for Z and Multiverse discussions, by their Reckoning Roshi skips from Pre Tao Pai-Pai era to being Useful in a Post Majin Buu World... Not buying his secret nobody noticed old man training let he catch up to Tien.
I do believe Mafuuba allows way weaker people to bind far mightier demons, but I do not believe strength plays no factor besides if you live or not.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 10, 2020 19:16:34 GMT
In fairness for Kami it isn’t uncommon for characters who have passed their prime to stop training. Kami not training with King Kai IMO feels more like the idea that Kami feels his time is over and has given up on fighting or improving his power than the idea he has never trained in martial arts or to strengthen himself ever in his life. I admit there is nothing to suggests he ever trained beyond my assumption he did in his past. I do find your idea interesting since I have never seen a fan suggest Kami has never trained ever.
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Apr 10, 2020 21:24:16 GMT
In fairness for Kami it isn’t uncommon for characters who have passed their prime to stop training. Kami not training with King Kai IMO feels more like the idea that Kami feels his time is over and has given up on fighting or improving his power than the idea he has never trained in martial arts or to strengthen himself ever in his life. I admit there is nothing to suggests he ever trained beyond my assumption he did in his past. I do find your idea interesting since I have never seen a fan suggest Kami has never trained ever. I've never seen a person suggest that he did outside of the meditation he did to expel piccolo. Like eldagusto stated, kami is a god and his role is not that of a fighter. He is a sage like character who does not participate in conflict. The reason kami did not beat down piccolo was stated in the anime at least possibly the manga because he was not allowed to do so, and in fact, suicide was taboo for kami as well. He had no other course of action but to stay on his temple while piccolo rampaged. In fact, he was so desperate to kill piccolo by the 23rd budokai that he asked tenshinhan to kill him so piccolo died too. But lets assume that kami did train to power himself up. Piccolo was sealed in the rice jar via the mafuuba, so his main reason to train was gone, and any "training" done from that point was godly things, and learning new skills such as the mafuuba in case piccolo came back, which is what he did. The mafuuba failed, but that was his best option according to him. By borrowing a human body, I'm guessing the human would die, but he'd be brought back via the dragon balls. So there'd be no need to train even if piccolo was a threat because he was dealt with by mutoaito or whatever roshis masters name was. And as to whether they were even, I doubt that as kami speaks as though he were the original, and piccolo was the runt in most depictions, with piccolo surpassing him later as a warrior type. Aside from kami, the only other time we saw a split like that was with majin buu, and that wasn't a calculated move, so much as it happened by accident, and even then it was not an even split. The gap widened more so when the evil side became kid buu, which is kind of a weird parallel to kami and piccolo. Its different in some ways, but similar in others. The "original" was overpowered and eventually absorbed by the evil one. I realize some of this is taking notes from the anime, but thats fine as quite a bit of stuff from the anime was worked on with toriyamas involvement. Pikon for example was created by toriyama and was noted to take facial expressions from piccolos model sheet for the face when applicable. If I had to give a precident as to canon, the manga is first, then the anime, then any guide books to fill in extra details. If the guide book contradicts the anime, the anime is correct. If the anime contradicts the manga, the manga is correct. This is acceptable in my opinion. I don't think video game "canon" has any bearing or merit outside of cool factor. And as far as kami not training because he's old, he really needs to take a page out of roshis book and train anyway. Its a stroke of luck considering the multiverse that piccolo stayed good after dying. For all kami knew, piccolo could have reverted back to his old ways and used his strength as a super namekian merged with nail post king kais training. Given dbms "infinite universes" there is bound to be a universe where piccolo had a 2nd change of heart and went evil again, without any majin power up from babadi and so on. and if kami was worried about dying of old age, theres always the super elixir roshi used to mke himself kinda immortal, so he could train as long as required, and he has the HTC as well. So I don't buy the "old age can't train" explanation as its entirely possible for him to do so. AS to the process of kami splitting his evil side from himself, I would assume that his nameless one persona had a huge power, as guru stated "his strength is so vast, if a saiyan had bested him, it would have to have been a ssj".  The wordings a bit different, but guru seems to know a regular saiyan couldn't beat the nameless one. This is the evidence that suggests he wasn't on the same level as the 3000 power namekians facing off against the freeza grunts or even nail. I'm thinking like in the several millions. It doesn't have to be as much as say freeza, but if he were like 40 million then base goku on namek couldn't beat him. Never mind other power up techniques like the kaioken. This is why I'm suggesting the dividing process actually did more than subtract piccolos power from kami, it sort of had the opposite effect of a namekian fusion. It'd be like if piccolo split nail from him (impossible I know) and nail popped out at 42,000 and piccolo was whatever he was, like 5,000 and they have less between them than the 1 million that super piccolo had. It, like namekian assimilation, has random variables, and the result was a weaker duo than the original. It's merely an assumption of mine, as kami and piccolo even added together were weaker than radditz, and thats taking into account kami and warrior type piccolo who trained to battle goku. |
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 11, 2020 2:33:48 GMT
I know people don't agree with me but I'm of the opinion Pickles arriving on Namek was somewhere between Earth Vegeta and Ginyu level. Fusing with nail Unlocked his potential and that is part of why his boost was so huge. But in my opinion Toriyama would have flubbed power levels like this with Pickles, because he would have done the same if it was Goku or Vegeta in Pickles shoes. That is why I am a fan of the idea that the Anime only filler where the fought the Ginyu Force was probably pretty accurate. I'll bet by the time Pickles got to Kai's world he was close to Nappa's power, I'll bet he arrived much earlier then the others, and I'll bet he just continued his own personal training and boosted dramatically really quickly just like goku boosted dramatically on the ship. Its different from the Anime so who knows how Pickles trained.
I know unpopular opinion but its the style I'll bet Toriyama had in mind after all Nail was impressed by him.
|
|
