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Post by Xeno Black on Oct 5, 2021 23:33:34 GMT
They actually make no money from DBM but it costs him to host it on its own ad-free site instead of something like Deviantart. There could be some fatigue since it's the longest running fan comic. Usually it's a few years before the author loses interest and stops working on it. Unfortunately you can tell when that begins to happen since the release between pages or chapters slows down. In the many fan comics I've read, I hope DBM joins the short list of fanfics that made it to its end. Skarr عمار Motivation, longevity, potential writer fatigue, moving to side projects, will it be finished one day or will Salagir/Asura lose interest at some point ? Great points and questions for the next DBM Twitch In what ways DBM falls in or avoid the usual traps of long-term fan fiction? Why do some of the team members keep working on DBM after all these years ? Why not move from DBM to some copyright-owned comics ? Sorry for not being on topic, but these are all great questions we will be happy to answer Always good hearing from you Ouv. We fans appreciate you coming and talking with us. But I do have one small question I am sure you've heard multiple times. When the next U13 special? Your work is always so good to read!
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Oct 5, 2021 23:44:31 GMT
Skarr عمار Motivation, longevity, potential writer fatigue, moving to side projects, will it be finished one day or will Salagir/Asura lose interest at some point ? Great points and questions for the next DBM Twitch In what ways DBM falls in or avoid the usual traps of long-term fan fiction? Why do some of the team members keep working on DBM after all these years ? Why not move from DBM to some copyright-owned comics ? Sorry for not being on topic, but these are all great questions we will be happy to answer Always good hearing from you Ouv. We fans appreciate you coming and talking with us. But I do have one small question I am sure you've heard multiple times. When the next U13 special? Your work is always so good to read! What Savage Xeno said haha, U13 is still one of my most anticipated specials. Really wanna see your guys take on how they handled the most likely way different events on Namek. Also how Vegeta ascended and handled Freeza and his family of course or if Kakarotto ascended shortly after and maybe handled one of the other frost demons himself. Have to say that’s one of my favorite universes and I enjoyed the art that you drew in the previous specials.
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Post by ouv on Oct 5, 2021 23:55:25 GMT
Skarr عمار Motivation, longevity, potential writer fatigue, moving to side projects, will it be finished one day or will Salagir/Asura lose interest at some point ? Great points and questions for the next DBM Twitch In what ways DBM falls in or avoid the usual traps of long-term fan fiction? Why do some of the team members keep working on DBM after all these years ? Why not move from DBM to some copyright-owned comics ? Sorry for not being on topic, but these are all great questions we will be happy to answer Always good hearing from you Ouv. We fans appreciate you coming and talking with us. But I do have one small question I am sure you've heard multiple times. When the next U13 special? Your work is always so good to read! My answer here dbmenglish.freeforums.net/thread/1215/salagirs-twitch-reference-thread?page=9&scrollTo=58764
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 10, 2021 22:43:45 GMT
The Broly won universe could have happened in U11 over U20. As an added bonus we could do away with LSS's invincibility. Universe 11 was made into the unseen timeline in the original series where the Z-fighters stopped the androids/cyborgs, but never encountered Future Cell. Right off the bat it means the Z-fighters will be weaker than they were in the main universe. We know that because the Future Trunks that went back in time and helped them would go back to his future where he will be killed by Imperfect Cell. He never trained in the time chamber and likely used the remote to stop 17 and 18 of his time rather than surpassing them like Future Trunks we followed did. That makes U11 a prime candidate for being the universe where Broly won.
If people didn't really like the how 16, 17, and 18 changed in the proper U11 we could probably change it so the gang either successfully stopped Gero before he could activate them or in U11 for whatever reason 16 is never activated so 17 and 18 were able be talked down and the whole 16 never kills Goku for whatever reason doesn't feel so random. Whatever the route people want to go with for U11 the important thing is they stopped 17 and 18 without using the time chamber. This would lead Future Trunks aka U15 Trunks, that helped out this past (U11) got the remote to use on the 17 and 18 in his future (U15). The end result is that Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan are all much weaker than they were in other universes, Gohan isn't even a Super Saiyan. Paragus finds out Vegeta is alive and goes to Earth to lure him into a trap as we see in First Broly special. Since the group is much weaker they don't have anyone who can hold off Broly until Goku can make a Spirit Bomb, so they are killed. Broly could retain his rapidly growing ki ability, but loses the invincibility. That way when Broly wins in U11 he stay in LSS form and continue his rampage across the universe where his power will continue to grow until he destroyed everything and got frozen.
This way it justifies how U11 Broly grew so powerful that he could rival U16 Vegetto in power. Vegetto wants a challenge so bad that even without Broly literally being invincible he would likely let Broly power up as much he needed to so he could get a good fight. The fight could stay the same as we saw it in the comic proper, except SS3 Vegetto's attack likely would have killed Broly, but that is not a real loss to the story. I know people are going to say that would mean we lose Babidi wins universe, but we could still get that in another universe. With small tweaks Babidi coming to Earth and successfully revives Majin Buu might work in U6. Since U6 is where Bojack won that could have an unintended effect where Babidi has an easier time gathering energy and manipulating Bojack's crew than he did the Supreme Kai and our heroes. Bojack is arrogant enough to not help Supreme Kai and his subordinates could definitely be defeated by Dabura and have their energy drained when they battle him. When the whole thing is done Babidi could even possess Bojack and some his surviving crew to make them his slaves. Babidi could have Dabura, Majin Buu, and Bojack under his control and conquer the universe.
The girls in U6 never got any real development anyway, so cutting them out doesn't really change a whole lot. Their spots can easily be filled by other bit characters from other universes, like Freeza Soldiers, U10 Saiyans, or some other minor character. Bojack could still be in the story and have the same role to usher in danger to the story. Bojack would still be the same asshole he is now under Babidi's control, so he would likely do the same thing to U16 Pan. Nothing is lost by having Babidi win in U6 instead of U11. While U11 being the universe where the gang defeated the androids and cyborgs without using the time chamber lead to them to lose to Broly makes sense. Broly winning in U11 would still have him stay in LSS state. He would still go on a rampage and his power would still keep growing without Broly needing to be invincible. The rapidly growing ki ability would already make Broly an extremely dangerous foe, but still gives others more wiggle room to defeat him without it feeling totally random like what we have now. We get rid of the U20 special, since there is no need to explain how Broly won. U20 has vacant spot now, but that could be filled with anything from a Gero won universe to Metal Cooler universe or Shadow Dragons universe. Nice good ideas, I honestly don’t mind if Broly has “invulnerability” but just wish there was more thought put into it then what we got and I’d tone down the random insane power spikes and nonsense that happens every time Broly comes around. He jumped so quick from SSJ1 level Vegetto to SSJ2, I’d still make it possible but just slow it way down. Also have him keep the invincibility like I said before but it only working if he’s stronger or the at least at the same level. Giving whoever’s fighting him a chance still to put him down before it’s too late. It is a shame that those U6 girls were literally about as important or talked about as much as the random audience members we saw, who may have actually gotten more of a spot light and attention than them thanks to the Majin rebellion haha. Having them be flushed out more would at least make me care a little about this up and coming Bojack special. The way Salagir puts out his specials typically is so bizarre, once in awhile he does put out a relevant one to what’s going on in the main story but most of the time they’re so random and out of place. Like this Bojack special coming up, really should have been released years ago when they were just leaving the tournament maybe if it is a follow up special after they all head back home. I get that he’s left to the mercy of his artists at times and can only put out whatever they’re willing to draw but he should be able to plan accordingly and set the pacing up a little better for something that’s actually being focused on in the main story if possible. Easier said than done I’m sure and maybe it’s just because of how things are lately and after the way Bra was handled and won in that arc, only to be followed up by the horribly ending Broly specials. (Seriously I can’t believe how bad he made that Z Buu look, he should have known better and put Broly down immediately or attempt to teleport him first at least). Instead he just talked about doing it, and still just fought Broly normally for most of their fight, the fuck was that? I guess you could say it was the saiyan influence taking over because they were the most dominant ones in him at that time but I think it was just Buu being forced into holding the idiot ball until Broly could rage quit like he did. I really thought at first we were going to get a botched fusion dance Veku instead and have him get blasted before they can defuse and try the dance again. As sad as that’d be because Veku is my boy, it would have looked better than how stupid Buu was made out to be just so Broly could pull the W. Salagirs just not impressing me much as a writer at all lately for whatever that’s worth, it’s been a long time to be fair though. Writer fatigue is for sure a thing especially when you’re not making a ton of money off it because it’s not your original property. I will always like DBM because it really did get me back into Dragon Ball after so long but just not like I used to I guess. I have no problem with increased durability being a trait for LSS, just as long as he is not literally invincible. DC comics had Superman be invulnerable, but they realized how if they played that straight there would be no way to write stories with the character. The LSS being "invincible" in terms of it becomes more durable than average Saiyan, but he can still be killed by someone stronger, similar to Superman example I used, is the best way to have gone with the story. This is where I think Dragon Ball Super did better than DBM with Broly. Broly has the ability to rapid grow stronger that he goes from weaker than Vegeta and Goku to being strong enough to challenge them in their strongest forms, but he can still be killed and there is a limit to how strong he can grow. It still makes Broly stand out as the Legendary Saiyan, but still there is some kind of limit that makes it possible to kill him.
Broly in DBM has rapid growing ki ability and enhanced durability based on ki he could still be the monster powerhouse and terror that makes the story wants him to be, but not literally invincible to the point where it is hard to write around him. U20 is it can't work without Broly literally being invincible. The characters have fought him 2 times already they know how to stop him is kill him before he grows too strong for them. By the time Broly comes back a third time he has to already be stronger than SS3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, and SS3 Adult Gotenks, which is already hard to swallow for people since Multiverse Tournament established U20 Broly wasn't on SS1 Vegetto's level yet until they met. SS3 Adult Gotenks is either on par with or not far away from SS1 Vegetto's power. If Broly got to that level before he destroyed U20 it means U20 Broly should have been stronger than Vegetto from the start just based on how his power increase works.
It is easier to just have Broly win universe be one where Broly won in the first encounter rather than to have him survive the second encounter in one universe and come back stronger than ever when the characters are post Majin Buu strength levels. People have wondered why the first Broly attack doesn't happen the same time it does in U11. It might make more sense to have had the attack be the same time and Broly won since Goku and his friends wouldn't be as strong as they were in other universes without Cell's involvement in this universe. Broly winning at that time would mean he goes on a rampage the same way he did in U20 and would grow stronger and stronger as he stayed in the form and could destroy the whole universe until he is frozen. That way rapid growing ki and increased durability don't need to be turned up to 11 to justify how Broly won and become strong enough to challenge Vegetto.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Oct 10, 2021 23:40:40 GMT
“ Son Pan ” For sure, think I brought up a similar scenario in one of my other posts but you’re right, having Broly win in his first encounter with the Z fighters is probably the easiest way to make a winning universe for him work with these alternate universe scenarios. So that he still appears for the tournament but isn’t possibly at SSJ1 Vegetto levels like that last lack luster special we got led us to believe with “Z” Buu having to completely hold the idiot ball and give him a chance to power up so much. All for him to rage quit and still win some how. If the the Z fighters never had that great of need to push their power to the real next level of SSJ, SSJ2 in this case. It would leave a perfect opportunity for a fresh Broly to show up after and win or lose depending on the universe (aka say Super Vegeta actually just killed semi perfect Cell instead of letting him become perfect.) We’d still get the scenario of Goku and Gohan becoming mastered SSJs like the movie implied because they were in the time chamber at the time and would have advanced like normal, not knowing that Vegeta killed Cell until they came out of the time chamber. Gohan would have never unlocked SSJ2 for real but still became a SSJ. Hell even could go a step further and if you didn’t want to have the spirit bomb be what did Broly in or push him away for the time being, have kid Gohan unlock SSJ2 on New Vegeta and have that be what kills or pushes him away for later. As for the invincibility thing for Broly, I’d be cool with a similar Super Man scenario like that, having it either be just extra durability like you stated or needing to be on his level or higher to beat him. Best of both worlds, that way DBM could keep LSSJ as this invincible warrior if Salagir really wanted that but if whoever he was fighting was on his level or greater. They could kill his ass in the same fashion as any other weaker foe but if they played with him and gave him time to continue to power up. As soon as he surpassed them they’d be completely screwed. Good mix of his stupid OP invincibility in DBM and keeping it a bit grounded so other characters still have a chance to beat him if they didn’t play around. It does get a bit annoying when the main cast immediately craps their pants and acts like there’s no hope when he shows up in DBM. Like when they freaked out when a ghost version of him showed up in the Ratchi vs Gast fight that should have maybe been around SSJ2 levels in his legendary form at most sense he was never used before above SSJ1 by Ratchi. Could say it’s more them worrying about him growing too much in power to be able to be beat after too long I suppose, seeing as U18 had already dealt with him in their universe and should know of his abilities and how they work by now. Not to mention a glaring plot hole in this very same fight with Gast, with him not being able to budge this ghost Broly with a punch when it was already shown that he can be knocked around when he’s weaker then whoever’s he’s fighting. As shown with his fights with Vegetto and Z Buu. So unless that ghost Broly was already at SSJ3+ levels for some reason, makes me scratch my head on why Ratchi didn’t use him at that level against U13 SSJ2 Vegeta in his last fight. Thinking that was more of an over site on DBMS part. This could lead to Goku and Vegeta still realizing there’s a level beyond mastered SSJ after witnessing Gohan do it and still fit fine for a universe that Babidi shows up later and wins. Goku never getting his 7 years of super otherworld training because no perfect Cell means no death for Goku but having the 3 remaining saiyans possibly still unlocking SSJ2 because they knew it was possible and having 7 years to train like canon by the time of the Babidi saga. Babidi could majinize Vegeta as he did to coincide with the point he made in the multiverse tournament to not attempt to majinize any Vegetas or even a fusion containing him because he did state that he had tried already in his universe but Vegeta rebelled in the same fashion as he did in canon. Think it’d be the easiest way to handle that alternate scenario, with the saiyans still getting access to SSJ2 if need be so it keeps them at a high enough level to defeat all of Babidis mooks but without SSJ3 or fusion, they are done in quite easily once Fat Buu appears on the scene. Possibly having Dabura witness Fat Buus power first because of it being such a different scenario then canon, so his dumb ass doesn’t insult him and get eaten.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 2, 2022 5:28:34 GMT
A special I want to change is one of the Universe 13 one, specifically the one where Kakarot killed Roshi. The special itself was weak and it felt forced with how Kakarot killed Roshi because Roshi bumped his head. I would tweak it so that Roshi beats Kakarot, but doesn't kill him because he saw Kakarot's budding friendship with Krillin means he has the potential to be good. Roshi takes Kakarot in and trains him in hopes of helping him become a better person. We get some panels give us glimpses of Kakarot's new life, where we see him befriend Krillin and meets other people. Kakarot learning to get along with people, but at the same time being tormented by his programing on exterminating the human race. This way we get a conflicted Kakarot we got glimpses of in his match with U18 Pan. The special end with Kakarot and Krillin entering the World Martial Arts Tournament with Krillin excited at getting to compete again and Kakarot happy to get to fight strong opponents. The last panel we hear the voice in his head telling him to kill all humans and Kakarot's smile wavering to show he is cracking. Since the readers know what his fate will be it gives us a ominous feeling that something terrible might happen at 22nd Tournament and how tragic U13 Kakarot's fate will be.
I want to tweak U8 special where Goku and Nail go to Freeza's capital. I completely forgot what happened to Goku's remaining senzu beans in U8 special. I know he used one to save Nail, but even with that one he should have still had two more left (he used his last three beans to save Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta). The tweak I would make is when Goku faces Freeza he nearly gets killed twice and needs to eat those senzu beans to recover and get zenkai boost to close the gap between his power and Freeza's power. That way Goku doesn't go struggling with Captain Ginyu to suddenly being strong enough to force Freeza to go all the way to his final form out of nowhere. It still allows the same story to be told, but it doesn't stand out as much because Goku's massive power increases would be explained better.
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Post by hector on Jan 2, 2022 15:41:56 GMT
U12,14,15: I think the Babidi special was sloppily written. A better way of writing it would be to show Babidi and his minions landing on Earth, finding out that there were not enough people left, and finally packing their things and leaving without ever interacting with Gohan.
U11: It would be more cool if Piccolo merged with Kami and the Saiyans trained in the Spirit Room all the same. The story could go like this... -When the Androids arrive at the Kame House, Piccolo merges with Kami. Kammiccolo goes to stall them. -Kamiccolo and Seventeen fight for longer than they did in U18, since Cell is not there to interrupt them. Eventually, Piccolo gets tired, and Seventeen gains the upper hand. -When Seventeen is about to kill Piccolo, Goku uses the Instant Transmission, appears on the battlefield and goes like, 'Leave him alone. It's me that you want.' -Goku is eventually overpowered by the Androids. Vegeta and Trunks exit the Spirit Room. -Vegeta has the time of his life stomping the Androids. He is somehow convinced not to kill them. -When Trunks returns to his future, he is ambushed by Cell and killed before he can transform into a Super Saiyan.
U16: In the novel, it was cruel of Vegetto to kill a couple of versions of Tapion/Minotia. Tapion could just chill in that timeline, waiting to reunite with the 'correct' version of his brother in the afterlife. (I think that's what should have happened in the movie too.)
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Post by another1bitesdadusto on Feb 27, 2022 10:22:41 GMT
The Future Majin Special: I felt like the manga adaptation of Dragon Ball Super and DBZ Kakarot did a better take on it, with consistent power-scaling, no Idiot Plot and characters showing out of nowhere (Yakon's sister). It also helps that in Kakarot, we see Trunks's have a student-mentor relationship with the Supreme Kai which makes us feel for him when Shin dies.
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Post by dbmaccount on Mar 2, 2022 2:16:50 GMT
Future Majin's Dabura has an easy fix: Androids turn up and decide to get into the action. The multi-person fight drains Dabura just enough to be close to Gohan's level for a lucky shot to take him out.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 2, 2022 19:52:47 GMT
Future Majin's Dabura has an easy fix: Androids turn up and decide to get into the action. The multi-person fight drains Dabura just enough to be close to Gohan's level for a lucky shot to take him out. Problem with this, even if I like the idea of a multi-person fight, is that Dabura is comically above the Future Androids level. He'd probably take down all 3 with minimal fatigue.
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Post by dbmaccount on Mar 3, 2022 11:19:32 GMT
Future Majin's Dabura has an easy fix: Androids turn up and decide to get into the action. The multi-person fight drains Dabura just enough to be close to Gohan's level for a lucky shot to take him out. Problem with this, even if I like the idea of a multi-person fight, is that Dabura is comically above the Future Androids level. He'd probably take down all 3 with minimal fatigue.
Dabura toys with them to draw out energy, gets distracted by Babidi saying the Android energy isn't reacting right, one person gets a lucky shot, and Dabura's crippled enough to be credibly defeated.
Expanded with details:
Babidi orders Dabura to fight Gohan for as long as possible. Dabura draws it out. Androids notice and want to get in on the fun, especially as they don't want their favorite toy broken. Since they don't radiate Ki, Dabura doesn't notice them until one blasts him in the back. Doesn't do crippling damage, but is enough to get his attention to another powerful energy source.
Babidi orders him to draw them into the fight too, despite Dabura warning him their energy isn't quite right. Three way fight commences, Dabura toys with them all. The Android's shields are slightly annoying as they block his fire attacks.
Dabura finally gets mad after Babidi insults him for not warning him that the Androids were androids.
Angry, Dabura summons a spear and stabs 17 in the gut for mouthing off too much. 18 goes berserk; not enough to actually wound Dabura but enough to distract him.
Dabura finally has enough and grabs her by the neck to kill her. ...and then Gohan stabs him in the back with his own spear.
"I figured a demon weapon could hurt a demon king."
Dabura can either die here or he goes back to Babidi, who is livid that the "wrong" energy from the Androids was absorbed. He can still donate his own energy like in the story. Then it continues the same way: Gohan kills Dabura and Babidi while the androids escape to repair themselves.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 3, 2022 18:08:39 GMT
Problem with this, even if I like the idea of a multi-person fight, is that Dabura is comically above the Future Androids level. He'd probably take down all 3 with minimal fatigue.
Dabura toys with them to draw out energy, gets distracted by Babidi saying the Android energy isn't reacting right, one person gets a lucky shot, and Dabura's crippled enough to be credibly defeated.
Expanded with details:
Babidi orders Dabura to fight Gohan for as long as possible. Dabura draws it out. Androids notice and want to get in on the fun, especially as they don't want their favorite toy broken. Since they don't radiate Ki, Dabura doesn't notice them until one blasts him in the back. Doesn't do crippling damage, but is enough to get his attention to another powerful energy source.
Babidi orders him to draw them into the fight too, despite Dabura warning him their energy isn't quite right. Three way fight commences, Dabura toys with them all. The Android's shields are slightly annoying as they block his fire attacks.
Dabura finally gets mad after Babidi insults him for not warning him that the Androids were androids.
Angry, Dabura summons a spear and stabs 17 in the gut for mouthing off too much. 18 goes berserk; not enough to actually wound Dabura but enough to distract him.
Dabura finally has enough and grabs her by the neck to kill her. ...and then Gohan stabs him in the back with his own spear.
"I figured a demon weapon could hurt a demon king."
Dabura can either die here or he goes back to Babidi, who is livid that the "wrong" energy from the Androids was absorbed. He can still donate his own energy like in the story. Then it continues the same way: Gohan kills Dabura and Babidi while the androids escape to repair themselves.
I feel the problem here is it till paints Babidi as an utter moron an basically asks Dabura to hold his hands behind his back and let the enemy hit him enough to try and get some drama out of what otherwise would've been a stomp. Really the simple answer to this Special is what Super does. Have Babidi & Dabura come later in the timeline, after Future Trunks defeated Imperfect Cell, with the Supreme Kai coming to aid and train Trunks for the threat. Then Trunks defeats Dabura before Buu awakens. Why does Gohan HAVE to be the one to beat Dabura?
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Post by dbmaccount on Mar 3, 2022 23:33:15 GMT
Babidi IS an utter moron in canon, though. I don't like the million year old wizard being stupid, but he does do irresponsible things like randomly kill useful minions for no reason.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 4, 2022 0:29:35 GMT
Babidi IS an utter moron in canon, though. I don't like the million year old wizard being stupid, but he does do irresponsible things like randomly kill useful minions for no reason. Yeah but Babidi was never THIS stupid. He did what he could to give his men an advantage, not toss them handicaps for no good reason or actively help his enemies. Not to mention he seemed to give Dabura especially leeway in how he handled things; letting him prepare in his chamber and even call off his match when he discovered Vegeta might be a useful servant to Babidi.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Mar 4, 2022 4:01:05 GMT
U9: Have Chewys comics be official for the U9 portion of said comics. I know it's a big change, but I like Chewys comics and I also know Salagir has said he had to make some changes to his own version of some U9 events to make it different from Chewys comic.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 4, 2022 4:29:53 GMT
Problem with this, even if I like the idea of a multi-person fight, is that Dabura is comically above the Future Androids level. He'd probably take down all 3 with minimal fatigue.
Dabura toys with them to draw out energy, gets distracted by Babidi saying the Android energy isn't reacting right, one person gets a lucky shot, and Dabura's crippled enough to be credibly defeated.
Expanded with details:
Babidi orders Dabura to fight Gohan for as long as possible. Dabura draws it out. Androids notice and want to get in on the fun, especially as they don't want their favorite toy broken. Since they don't radiate Ki, Dabura doesn't notice them until one blasts him in the back. Doesn't do crippling damage, but is enough to get his attention to another powerful energy source.
Babidi orders him to draw them into the fight too, despite Dabura warning him their energy isn't quite right. Three way fight commences, Dabura toys with them all. The Android's shields are slightly annoying as they block his fire attacks.
Dabura finally gets mad after Babidi insults him for not warning him that the Androids were androids.
Angry, Dabura summons a spear and stabs 17 in the gut for mouthing off too much. 18 goes berserk; not enough to actually wound Dabura but enough to distract him.
Dabura finally has enough and grabs her by the neck to kill her. ...and then Gohan stabs him in the back with his own spear.
"I figured a demon weapon could hurt a demon king."
Dabura can either die here or he goes back to Babidi, who is livid that the "wrong" energy from the Androids was absorbed. He can still donate his own energy like in the story. Then it continues the same way: Gohan kills Dabura and Babidi while the androids escape to repair themselves.
Even with this scenario I still find it hard to swallow Dabura losing to this trio. He has such a big power advantage over them that even if Dabura needed to draw out the fight to gather energy from Gohan that I don't really think Dabura would have a problem easily fighting off 17, 18, and Gohan and stay in control of the fight. Even if 17 and 18 are still in peak condition and at full power, since it is only 7 years since they were activated, they would still be so much weaker than Dabura. Piccolo and 17 couldn't even really hurt Imperfect Cell fighting together. The chances are Imperfect Cell still in their weight class even if he was much stronger. 17 and 18 are without doubt not in Perfect Cell's weight class, which we know Dabura is. Gohan isn't even in 17 and 18's weight class. The timeline hurts their chances even more. If this was set 13 years since the cyborgs killed Gohan's friends, there could be an argument to be made of Future Gohan being as strong or stronger than the cyborgs, if we go by the anime's version of History of Trunks. But the problem is this set the same time as Babidi attacked in the main universe, which means Gohan is probably still not much stronger than his dad was when he first transformed into a Super Saiyan on Namek. I don't really think Gohan could make much of a difference in this fight since he is so far below 17, 18, and Dabura. If Dabura plays around with them it would probably be more like when Freeza played around with Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo at once on Namek rather than say Everyone vs Majin Bra, where they a shot while Bra was playing around. Dabura likely could fight off all three without getting frustrated the way U16 Bra did. He might not even need to resort to using his magic, assuming 17 and 18's barriers could even hold up against Dabura's attacks. Babidi would likely not get upset at Dabura since he is doing a fine job of gathering energy for Majin Buu by beating up Gohan. He might just demand Dabura kill the spares who aren't doing much. I think more fighters would need to be added to make it believable Dabura would lose, like Supreme Kai and Kibito. I only say them because Supreme Kai can immobilize Dabura long enough for Gohan to use a ki disc or blade to cut up Dabura to kill him. Supreme Kai showing up just opens a can of worms as to why Gohan wouldn't ask for help against 17 and 18 or tell him where New Namek is to restore the Dragon Balls.
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Post by dbmaccount on Mar 4, 2022 22:40:45 GMT
Babidi IS an utter moron in canon, though. I don't like the million year old wizard being stupid, but he does do irresponsible things like randomly kill useful minions for no reason. Yeah but Babidi was never THIS stupid. He did what he could to give his men an advantage, not toss them handicaps for no good reason or actively help his enemies. Not to mention he seemed to give Dabura especially leeway in how he handled things; letting him prepare in his chamber and even call off his match when he discovered Vegeta might be a useful servant to Babidi.
Easily rectified by Babidi getting shocked and making a snap decision in anger when the Android energy messes up the absorption. He doesn't have to be 'stupid' to make impatient, rash decisions.
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Post by godjacob on May 10, 2022 17:39:51 GMT
For the current Special, just do what that edited page did with Kami talking to King Piccolo. Show Kami trying visibly alternative options and being forced into a corner, show him try to bargain with King Piccolo to make him the base, and make it feel truly hopeless so he eventually caves and makes his less of two evils choice.
Essentially don't skim over the really important "Kami decides to let King Piccolo be the base for the fusion" part of this.
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Post by mbg on May 12, 2022 6:09:17 GMT
Really, I think the answer for how to handle Babidi in the Android universes without needing to change any of the existing tournament or its structure is just the simplest, lowest-effort explanation: Babidi went to Earth to find people with high power levels, and the highest power level he can detect is Gohan, which he figures isn't nearly enough to satisfy his requirements. (Keep in mind, the Androids don't have ki, which means it's perfectly reasonable for Babidi to be unable to detect them, and Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan all the time and likely keeps his power level relatively low when not fighting.) So Babidi gives up on Earth and moves on to a different planet. Sometime in the next few decades, he reaches the conclusion that the universe is too devastated to yield enough power to unleash Buu, and uses a spell to retreat for the next century, something like what XXI uses, to hopefully return when the galaxy has managed to "grow back" a bit (explaining why he isn't around in other timelines).
Now, while this certainly isn't enough for an entire arc, fortunately we already have a pretty good model for how to handle this in the form of those minicomics about Bojack and Broly. It's perfectly okay to give a simple answer sometimes.
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