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Post by godjacob on May 2, 2024 0:21:26 GMT
And thus, future Vegeta is no more. And god damn the androids are sociopathic. Feel bad about Gohan who's hiding and being forced to watch his friends die one by one unable to do anything about it. Meh. Vegeta was as brutal as these two if not more. It something I noticed a lot of people seems to forgot. TFS had a good bit where Present Vegeta killed more people just in his fight with 18 than the "evil" androids. But in fairness Vegeta killed out of a sense of Saiyan conquest and later under Frieza's thumb. Not that he was morally much better than the androids but these two killed just for the pure lol of it which is kinda twisted.
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Post by Son Pan on May 2, 2024 3:02:46 GMT
Meh. Vegeta was as brutal as these two if not more. It something I noticed a lot of people seems to forgot. TFS had a good bit where Present Vegeta killed more people just in his fight with 18 than the "evil" androids. But in fairness Vegeta killed out of a sense of Saiyan conquest and later under Frieza's thumb. Not that he was morally much better than the androids but these two killed just for the pure lol of it which is kinda twisted. For me it is more of 17 and 18 are earthbound. Unlike the Saiyans, Freeza and his forces, or even Cell they cannot leave the Earth. Their genocide of the human race just dooms them as much as it does their victims. In DBM proper 17 mentioned how they hadn’t had a good meal since they killed the last chef. Their success at bringing humanity to the brink of extinction means all the things they enjoy, like clothes, foods, and even theme park rides will eventually all go waste side and they will have nothing left to amuses themselves with. They will be stuck with a dead world and no way to leave it and find new life to start their game over with. Cell at least had that option and in DBM did indeed travel the universe killing other races for fun. 17 and 18 are just stuck in the hell they created for themselves.
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Post by عمار on May 2, 2024 9:13:09 GMT
But in fairness Vegeta killed out of a sense of Saiyan conquest and later under Frieza's thumb. You make it sound like he was forced or hate doing it. Vegeta or all the saiyans for that matter had no problem killing and destroying planets. All his issues was that the reason he was doing it; doing it for Freeza & being under that is. Killing people and destroying planets was never a problem to Vegeta, I dare to say he enjoyed it just like the Future Androids. Remember that he did planned to destroy the earth after he was done with Goku, Freeza didn't told him to do any of that. And don't let me start about him killig Namekian children. Not that he was morally much better than the androids but these two killed just for the pure lol of it which is kinda twisted. And Vegeta killed his own comrade with cold-blooded. Killing others is bad, kilning your own is worse imo. Nappa and Raditz were the last of his race, they were pretty much under him and I'm going to assume they were together for a long time. And he didn't care about one when he died and killed the other. Even Freeza didn't go that far (at least in the manga). Which is why I when Toriyama just pretty much "white-washed" him by including him into the Z-Fighters (in the Android arc) I had so much problem with it. It didn't feel earned at all. Anyway, I going off topic, the point I'm trying to say is that Vegeta (in my eyes) was always much worse than the Future Androids. Which is why I always screamed at Trunks "Your father is WAY worse!" every time he speak about how the evil & trouble the Androids are. xD
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Post by Son Pan on May 2, 2024 14:33:38 GMT
But in fairness Vegeta killed out of a sense of Saiyan conquest and later under Frieza's thumb. You make it sound like he was forced or hate doing it. Vegeta or all the saiyans for that matter had no problem killing and destroying planets. All his issues was that the reason he was doing it; doing it for Freeza & being under that is. Killing people and destroying planets was never a problem to Vegeta, I dare to say he enjoyed it just like the Future Androids. Remember that he did planned to destroy the earth after he was done with Goku, Freeza didn't told him to do any of that. And don't let me start about him killig Namekian children. Not that he was morally much better than the androids but these two killed just for the pure lol of it which is kinda twisted. And Vegeta killed his own comrade with cold-blooded. Killing others is bad, kilning your own is worse imo. Nappa and Raditz were the last of his race, they were pretty much under him and I'm going to assume they were together for a long time. And he didn't care about one when he died and killed the other. Even Freeza didn't go that far (at least in the manga). Which is why I when Toriyama just pretty much "white-washed" him by including him into the Z-Fighters (in the Android arc) I had so much problem with it. It didn't feel earned at all. Anyway, I going off topic, the point I'm trying to say is that Vegeta (in my eyes) was always much worse than the Future Androids. Which is why I always screamed at Trunks "Your father is WAY worse!" every time he speak about how the evil & trouble the Androids are. xD I don’t disagree with Vegeta being as bad or worse than the future cyborgs. He was a straight up villain and as a Freeza soldier it is clear he went to more planets and wiped them out to sell the planet. On scale alone his actions are on a grander scale than 17 and 18. They will at least be contained on Earth. Reading the rest of your post gives me a sense that you’re holding it against Trunks for complaining about how evil the cyborgs were just because Vegeta was worse. I am not sure if that is the case, but it comes off as that. You have to keep in mind Trunks doesn’t know the full extent of his father’s crimes. It is obvious Bulma and Gohan didn’t tell him the full extent, considering how shocked he was to see some of Vegeta’s cruelty in the past. Trunks grew up in 17 and 18’s reign of terror, saw their atrocities first hand, and grew up in constant state of panic. Of course, he will be biased and think they are the worst villains in history. He is not white washing his dad’s crimes when he says that, but rather he grew up to see 17 and 18’s crimes, while he never witnessed Vegeta’s. You shouldn’t realistically expect Trunks to bring up Vegeta’s crimes when he talks about how evil the cyborgs are. This is just his own personal experience. It isn’t meant to invalidate the people Vegeta killed in any way. I also disagree with you on Toriyama white washing Vegeta’s crimes. It is clear with the exception of Goku and Gohan that the others still hate Vegeta and only put up with him because he is a strong fighter in the initial arc after he decides to stay on Earth initially. Krillin even told Bulma a reason he was against her idea to use the DBs to find Gero before he finished his creations as because he was afraid without a common enemy Vegeta might start killing again. It is made clear throughout the arc most of the gang hate Vegeta for what he did and only tolerate him because he is a strong fighter. To Toriyama’s credit he never plays Vegeta as 100 percent good now or a hero. Vegeta’s interactions with Trunks make it clear that Vegeta is still not a good person and he even had Vegeta comment on how he agreed with 17 for killing a person based on disliking them. Vegeta questioned why Goku would help him get stronger since he said Goku was his next target after Cell and the cyborgs. I never get the sense that the manga ever tried to forget Vegeta was a villain or white wash his crimes away. I think it is not until Vegeta’s actions at the end of the arc where he realizes how horrible he was to his son, apologized to Gohan for screwing up, and getting over himself to help Gohan by distracting Cell that he does anything truly redeeming. Even then that felt more to show there was hope he could become a better person than he was a good person all along. DB is not peak writing and I understand disliking Vegeta as a character for his past actions. I don’t think Toriyama white washed him or pretended like none of the bad things he did mattered. Toriyama handled his redemption better than some other writers would do. It took several years of living in peace for the gang to fully accept him as one of their own and start to like them. At least with Buu arc they made it clear Vegeta would go to hell when he died because is crimes out weighed his good actions. It at least means for him to get into heaven he has to do more good before he dies.
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Post by flynt on May 3, 2024 23:40:30 GMT
I like the idea that Roshi would guide Gohan's training. Its just sad that it won't matter in the end.
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Post by عمار on May 5, 2024 8:51:42 GMT
Reading the rest of your post gives me a sense that you’re holding it against Trunks for complaining about how evil the cyborgs were just because Vegeta was worse. I am not sure if that is the case, but it comes off as that. You have to keep in mind Trunks doesn’t know the full extent of his father’s crimes. It is obvious Bulma and Gohan didn’t tell him the full extent, considering how shocked he was to see some of Vegeta’s cruelty in the past. Trunks grew up in 17 and 18’s reign of terror, saw their atrocities first hand, and grew up in constant state of panic. Of course, he will be biased and think they are the worst villains in history. He is not white washing his dad’s crimes when he says that, but rather he grew up to see 17 and 18’s crimes, while he never witnessed Vegeta’s. You shouldn’t realistically expect Trunks to bring up Vegeta’s crimes when he talks about how evil the cyborgs are. This is just his own personal experience. It isn’t meant to invalidate the people Vegeta killed in any way. I think I should had reworded what I said. I was more holding it against the narrative itself that the Android are this big bad evil when in the group there's someone who is far worse. I also disagree with you on Toriyama white washing Vegeta’s crimes. It is clear with the exception of Goku and Gohan that the others still hate Vegeta and only put up with him because he is a strong fighter in the initial arc after he decides to stay on Earth initially. Krillin even told Bulma a reason he was against her idea to use the DBs to find Gero before he finished his creations as because he was afraid without a common enemy Vegeta might start killing again. That's exactly it though. That's by itself is white washing. If Vegeta is going to kill people because they stopped Gero from creating the Androids then he's a problem that needs to be dealt with. And that's exactly the point I'm trying to reach. Vegeta went from a villain like Freeza to an annoying drunk friend who we're not trying to piss off so he doesn't destroy things around him. And that by itself is white washing. The Z-Fighters shouldn't tolerate him at all, because he's not actually on their side and could betray them at any moment (oh we will get to that! xD). In my unpopular opinion, Vegeta didn't earn the status of being someone who the Z-Fighters should tolerate. On namek, Krillin and Gohan teamed with him out of desperation and vise versa. None of them wanted to team up with the other. So, the moment Freeza was taking care of on namek they should go back to be an enemies. But suddenly they're not. Suddenly, Vegeta does not want to kill them anymore and just chilling there. Bulma is not scared of him anymore and she flirts with him (that by itself was bizarre and ugh), and don't get me started on the fact that Gohan tried to shake his hand. If that's was not white washing then I don't know what it is. Vegeta at that point was not treated as a villain anymore. And that to me was unearned. It is made clear throughout the arc most of the gang hate Vegeta for what he did and only tolerate him because he is a strong fighter. To Toriyama’s credit he never plays Vegeta as 100 percent good now or a hero. Vegeta’s interactions with Trunks make it clear that Vegeta is still not a good person and he even had Vegeta comment on how he agreed with 17 for killing a person based on disliking them. Vegeta questioned why Goku would help him get stronger since he said Goku was his next target after Cell and the cyborgs. I never get the sense that the manga ever tried to forget Vegeta was a villain or white wash his crimes away. Yes, the problem was not Vegeta. The problem was everyone around him and how he's being treated. Go and watch how Goku and Piccolo join forces to how Goku and Vegeta were. You can't tell me that Goku was not treating Vegeta like some friend who he knows he just doesn't want to admit they're friend than an enemy. And while everyone may not treating him as such, to their eyes, he's not a villain anymore. I think it is not until Vegeta’s actions at the end of the arc where he realizes how horrible he was to his son, apologized to Gohan for screwing up, and getting over himself to help Gohan by distracting Cell that he does anything truly redeeming. Even then that felt more to show there was hope he could become a better person than he was a good person all along. Before we get to that point, how did we get in this situation in the first place? Oh yes, because Vegeta helped Cell to absorb 18 and reach his Perfect form. At that point, the Z-Fighters should have just get rid of Vegeta because he was worse than Chiaotzu. There was literally no reason for them to keep him around because of what he done. Yet, they did, why? Because like I said before, while Vegeta's behavior didn't change, the Z-Fighters don't view him as a villain no more. And as for what he did. I really got to ask: why suddenly he cared about his son? I don't remember him showing any care to him before that point and then Trunks dies and he gets angry? Like, his change of status, this felt forced and unearned. Vegeta, the guy who killed his own comrade suddenly gives a shit about his son? Why? I s it merely because he's his son? But he didn't care about the little one before? What change now? DB is not peak writing and I understand disliking Vegeta as a character for his past actions. I don't dislike Vegeta because of his action. My favorite Vegeta was Saiyan saga and Freeza saga Vegeta. Y'know, the one who murder children. My problem is the shift that was made for him and how Toriyama stuck him with the Z-Fighters. I will have the same problem if Freeza or Cell got the same treatment. I don’t think Toriyama white washed him or pretended like none of the bad things he did mattered. Toriyama handled his redemption better than some other writers would do. It took several years of living in peace for the gang to fully accept him as one of their own and start to like them. At least with Buu arc they made it clear Vegeta would go to hell when he died because is crimes out weighed his good actions. It at least means for him to get into heaven he has to do more good before he dies. I definitely disagree with you here. Toriyama downplayed all of Vegeta's past actions, from him killing a whole village of namekain to letting Buu out of his cocoon. No long term consequences. No one hold him accountable for freeing Buu, instead he was worshiped for his so-called "sacrifice". As for the several years he spent there. The thing is, we as readers didn't see them, we skipped over them. So, once again Vegeta's status was changed, but we didn't see how things changed it was just implied, unearned imo. So, you know I wanted to deck Bulma so hard at the hand when she asked "why Vegeta is acting like this?!" Like, what the hell were you expecting? This is what he does, all the time! So, once again, Vegeta betrays his alias, complicate life for everyone around him and get free pass with no long term consequences. Not only that, his death was treated as something emotional, like hello! He is the one caused all of this, and it was only his petty reasons to hit Goku a few times in the face. At that point, I just threw my hands in disgust and accepted that no matter what Vegeta does, he's gonna get a free pass and get praised for trying to fix a problem he caused.
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Post by عمار on May 5, 2024 19:37:36 GMT
Geez, I don't know, Roshi. Maybe because he's tired? xD
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Post by flynt on May 5, 2024 22:52:35 GMT
Geez, I don't know, Roshi. Maybe because he's tired? xD I wonder if that's why Gohan fails to get stronger than the androids. He doesn't properly rest like U!18 Goku taught his son during their training. Which would make his death all the more tragic. I really wish we got one timeline where Gohan took care of the androids. If only to show that yes, he can do it.
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Post by drewsaga on May 5, 2024 23:06:32 GMT
Reading the rest of your post gives me a sense that you’re holding it against Trunks for complaining about how evil the cyborgs were just because Vegeta was worse. I am not sure if that is the case, but it comes off as that. You have to keep in mind Trunks doesn’t know the full extent of his father’s crimes. It is obvious Bulma and Gohan didn’t tell him the full extent, considering how shocked he was to see some of Vegeta’s cruelty in the past. Trunks grew up in 17 and 18’s reign of terror, saw their atrocities first hand, and grew up in constant state of panic. Of course, he will be biased and think they are the worst villains in history. He is not white washing his dad’s crimes when he says that, but rather he grew up to see 17 and 18’s crimes, while he never witnessed Vegeta’s. You shouldn’t realistically expect Trunks to bring up Vegeta’s crimes when he talks about how evil the cyborgs are. This is just his own personal experience. It isn’t meant to invalidate the people Vegeta killed in any way. I think I should had reworded what I said. I was more holding it against the narrative itself that the Android are this big bad evil when in the group there's someone who is far worse. I also disagree with you on Toriyama white washing Vegeta’s crimes. It is clear with the exception of Goku and Gohan that the others still hate Vegeta and only put up with him because he is a strong fighter in the initial arc after he decides to stay on Earth initially. Krillin even told Bulma a reason he was against her idea to use the DBs to find Gero before he finished his creations as because he was afraid without a common enemy Vegeta might start killing again. That's exactly it though. That's by itself is white washing. If Vegeta is going to kill people because they stopped Gero from creating the Androids then he's a problem that needs to be dealt with. And that's exactly the point I'm trying to reach. Vegeta went from a villain like Freeza to an annoying drunk friend who we're not trying to piss off so he doesn't destroy things around him. And that by itself is white washing. The Z-Fighters shouldn't tolerate him at all, because he's not actually on their side and betray them at any moment (oh we will get to that! xD). In my unpopular opinion, Vegeta didn't earn the status of being someone who the Z-Fighters should tolerate. On namek, Krillin and Gohan teamed with him out of desperation and vise versa. None of them wanted to team up with the other. So, the moment Freeza was taking care of on namek they should go back to be an enemies. But suddenly they're not. Suddenly, Vegeta does not want to kill them anymore and just chilling there. Bulma is not scared of him anymore and she flirts with him (that by itself was bizarre and ugh), and don't get me started on the fact that Gohan tried to shake his hand. If that's was not white washing then I don't know what it is. Vegeta at that point was not treated as a villain anymore. And that to me was unearned. It is made clear throughout the arc most of the gang hate Vegeta for what he did and only tolerate him because he is a strong fighter. To Toriyama’s credit he never plays Vegeta as 100 percent good now or a hero. Vegeta’s interactions with Trunks make it clear that Vegeta is still not a good person and he even had Vegeta comment on how he agreed with 17 for killing a person based on disliking them. Vegeta questioned why Goku would help him get stronger since he said Goku was his next target after Cell and the cyborgs. I never get the sense that the manga ever tried to forget Vegeta was a villain or white wash his crimes away. Yes, the problem was not Vegeta. The problem was everyone around him and how he's being treated. Go and watch how Goku and Piccolo join forces to how Goku and Vegeta were. You can't tell me that Goku was not treating Vegeta like some friend who he knows he just doesn't want to admit they're friend than an enemy. And while everyone may not treating him as such it, to their eyes, he's not a villain anymore. I think it is not until Vegeta’s actions at the end of the arc where he realizes how horrible he was to his son, apologized to Gohan for screwing up, and getting over himself to help Gohan by distracting Cell that he does anything truly redeeming. Even then that felt more to show there was hope he could become a better person than he was a good person all along. Before we get to that point, how did in this situation in the first place? Oh yes, because Vegeta helped Cell to absorb 18 and reach his Perfect form. At that point, the Z-Fighters should have just get rid of Vegeta because he was worse than Chiaotzu. There was literally no reason for them to keep him around because of what he done. Yet, they did, why? Because like I said before, while Vegeta's behavior didn't change, the Z-Fighters don't view him as a villain no more. And as for what he did. I really got to ask: why suddenly he cared about his son? I don't remember him showing any care to him before that point and then he dies and he gets angry? Like, his change of status, this felt forced and unearned. Vegeta, the guy who killed his own comrade suddenly gives a shit about his son? Why is it because he's his son? But he didn't care about the little one before? What change now? DB is not peak writing and I understand disliking Vegeta as a character for his past actions. I don't dislike Vegeta because of his action. My favorite Vegeta was Saiyan saga and Freeza saga Vegeta. Y'know, the one who murder children. My problem is the shift that was made for him and Toriyama stuck him with the Z-Fighters. I will have the same problem if Freeza or Cell got the same treatment. I don’t think Toriyama white washed him or pretended like none of the bad things he did mattered. Toriyama handled his redemption better than some other writers would do. It took several years of living in peace for the gang to fully accept him as one of their own and start to like them. At least with Buu arc they made it clear Vegeta would go to hell when he died because is crimes out weighed his good actions. It at least means for him to get into heaven he has to do more good before he dies. I definitely disagree with you here. Toriyama downplayed all of Vegeta's past action, from him killing a whole village of namekain to letting Buu out of his cocoon. no long term consequences. No one hold him accountable for freeing Buu, instead he was worshiped for his so-called "sacrifice". As for several years he spent there. The thing is, we as readers didn't see them, we skipped over them. So, once again Vegeta's status was changed, but we didn't see how things changed it was just implied, unearned imo. So, you know I wanted to deck Bulma so hard at the hand when she asked "why Vegeta is acting like this?!" Like, what the hell were you expecting? This is what he does, all the time! So, once again, Vegeta betrays his alias, complicate life for everyone around him and get free pass with no long term consequences. Not only that, his death was treated as something emotional, like hello! He is the one caused all of this, and only his petty reasons to hit Goku a few times in the face. At that point, I just threw my hands in disgust and accepted that no matter what Vegeta does, he's gonna get a free pass and get praised for trying to fix a problem he caused. To be fair, who could really beat Vegeta aside from Goku at the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold got defeated (and Goku had no intention of killing Vegeta)? Piccolo maybe? Certainly not Tien and Krillin. And it's really not just that the Androids are the "big bad" in terms of evil but in terms of power. Vegeta was a small fry next to Frieza on Namek so the Z-Fighters had to take a chance with Vegeta against him, not because the Z-Fighters wanted to work wtih Vegeta. Vegeta was also small fries against the Androids and then Cell, not to mention Majin Buu. It's not much different than the human fighters working with Piccolo Jr to fight Vegeta and Nappa or Goku working with Piccolo to beat Raditz.
I disagree that Vegeta gets rewarded for his arrogance/bad decisions, that's just not shown in practice. If anything it's really the opposite. Most Z-Fighters took a very long time before they could trust Vegeta at all and Vegeta got punished for every bad decision he made (and he deserved it). This isn't like U16 Bra who could make bad decisions with Vegeta but get praised for it or even just face no repercussions for it. It would be dickish too if Z-Fighters wanted Vegeta's help only to stab him in the back at the end anyways even if Vegeta deserves such treatment for his crimes.
I think what helped Vegeta be more integrated with the Earthlings was the fact he was obsessed with Goku and surpassing him ever since he became a Super Saiyan and ironically it kept him in check. In that sense I think Vegeta is quite different from Frieza because Frieza wouldn't have chilled at all. He would have just blown up the Earth and find the Saiyan himself so he can try and kill him.
Dragon Ball is honestly an anime that is quite circumstantial. Like there probably are alternate timelines (like with DBM's infinite universes) were either the Z-Fighters did have to eliminate Vegeta after all, or Vegeta defeated all the Earthlings and maybe even took Frieza's place as a ruler much like with U13 Vegeta.
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Post by عمار on May 8, 2024 18:26:54 GMT
I appreciate DBM trying to explain how Gohan wasn't able to beat the Androids.
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Post by عمار on May 8, 2024 18:34:03 GMT
To be fair, who could really beat Vegeta aside from Goku at the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold got defeated (and Goku had no intention of killing Vegeta)? Piccolo maybe? Certainly not Tien and Krillin. And it's really not just that the Androids are the "big bad" in terms of evil but in terms of power. Vegeta was a small fry next to Frieza on Namek so the Z-Fighters had to take a chance with Vegeta against him, not because the Z-Fighters wanted to work wtih Vegeta. Vegeta was also small fries against the Androids and then Cell, not to mention Majin Buu. It's not much different than the human fighters working with Piccolo Jr to fight Vegeta and Nappa or Goku working with Piccolo to beat Raditz.
And they didn't have a chance against Freeza and his father. Guess what, they still went out there to fight. There's literally no reason for them not to try to fight Vegeta. I disagree that Vegeta gets rewarded for his arrogance/bad decisions, that's just not shown in practice. If anything it's really the opposite. Most Z-Fighters took a very long time before they could trust Vegeta at all and Vegeta got punished for every bad decision he made (and he deserved it). This isn't like U16 Bra who could make bad decisions with Vegeta but get praised for it or even just face no repercussions for it. It would be dickish too if Z-Fighters wanted Vegeta's help only to stab him in the back at the end anyways even if Vegeta deserves such treatment for his crimes. Sure, in terms of him getting ass kicked, he always get what's coming to him. But I'm talking about the long term effect. Vegeta is being praised by the fans and the narrative by two problems he caused. And that's what I meant of being rewarded.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on May 8, 2024 23:43:56 GMT
Had Vegeta immediately went on a killing spree at that time im sure the other Z fighters would have fought him but he didn’t. Why kick the hornets nest and try to start something with Vegeta if he wasn’t doing anything? Even if he did deserve it. On top of the fact that there was a greater threat on its way. Freeza and his father were stronger, and they all knew that those two would more then likely kill everyone of them on site. So what did they have to lose by teaming up at that point? It’s an odd comparison.
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Post by drewsaga on May 9, 2024 1:09:55 GMT
To be fair, who could really beat Vegeta aside from Goku at the time Mecha Frieza and King Cold got defeated (and Goku had no intention of killing Vegeta)? Piccolo maybe? Certainly not Tien and Krillin. And it's really not just that the Androids are the "big bad" in terms of evil but in terms of power. Vegeta was a small fry next to Frieza on Namek so the Z-Fighters had to take a chance with Vegeta against him, not because the Z-Fighters wanted to work wtih Vegeta. Vegeta was also small fries against the Androids and then Cell, not to mention Majin Buu. It's not much different than the human fighters working with Piccolo Jr to fight Vegeta and Nappa or Goku working with Piccolo to beat Raditz.
And they didn't have a chance against Freeza and his father. Guess what, they still went out there to fight. There's literally no reason for them not to try to fight Vegeta. I disagree that Vegeta gets rewarded for his arrogance/bad decisions, that's just not shown in practice. If anything it's really the opposite. Most Z-Fighters took a very long time before they could trust Vegeta at all and Vegeta got punished for every bad decision he made (and he deserved it). This isn't like U16 Bra who could make bad decisions with Vegeta but get praised for it or even just face no repercussions for it. It would be dickish too if Z-Fighters wanted Vegeta's help only to stab him in the back at the end anyways even if Vegeta deserves such treatment for his crimes. Sure, in terms of him getting ass kicked, he always get what's coming to him. But I'm talking about the long term effect. Vegeta is being praised by the fans and the narrative by two problems he caused. And that's what I meant of being rewarded. But if Vegeta wasn't starting anything, why kick the Hornet's Nest (as Super-dee-Duper Veku put it)? Especially when Goku wasn't there?
Frieza and King Cold showed up with full intent on wiping everyone out. Vegeta was no longer interested in that (or at least he took priority on finding Goku and finding the secrets of the Super Saiyan form). So the Earthlings had no choice but to face Frieza and King Cold knowing they were outmatched. They didn't have to face Vegeta so why throw your life away (unless Tien maybe snuck in a surprise Mafuba lol, except Tien doesn't want to play dirty)?
I do think DBZ-era Vegeta (before the end of the Buu Saga) is a dick and an asswipe. I don't exactly give him praise for being an arrogant dick myself (especially during the Cell Saga, like the excuse before was Vegeta was pretty evil, Cell Saga is where Vegeta mastered Ultra Ego and insecurity). Personally I think Piccolo Jr and Tien's character development was more enjoyable to see, as is Gohan's development to the end of the Cell Saga.
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Post by flynt on May 10, 2024 3:06:35 GMT
I appreciate DBM trying to explain how Gohan wasn't able to beat the Androids. I feel for Gohan. He lost everything and everyone in less than a year and now he's earth last hope. If only Tien, Yamcha or Krillin had survived. Might have given Gohan some sort of proper training, even if they would be outclassed. Still, I got to respect Roshi. He lost his students, his honorary students, but is still trying to save the earth the best he can.
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Post by عمار on May 10, 2024 20:09:12 GMT
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Post by flynt on May 11, 2024 23:23:03 GMT
Roshi really did lose everything to the androids. I'm afraid that he might die during this special.
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Post by عمار on May 12, 2024 18:30:11 GMT
Baba being young is Asura's influence. xD
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Post by Son Pan on May 13, 2024 0:51:32 GMT
I haven't read the comments, but I am going to assume young hot Baba is not going to go over well. That being said, how many favors has Baba collected that when she died, she got to choose her age, likely stay out of hell, and still has enough pull to keep Roshi out of hell?
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Post by godjacob on May 14, 2024 16:45:43 GMT
Baba being young is Asura's influence. xD I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to this special (As I don't really care much for stories that just tell us how X happened unless there is an interesting angle with it) but this is just annoying. They took Baba and turned her into generic anime hottie #95 because I guess like the Uub training bit we needed to crowbar in more fanservice.
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Post by flynt on May 15, 2024 19:15:01 GMT
Baba can no longer bring back people from the dead due to being dead herself. Ironic.
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