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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 29, 2016 2:55:25 GMT
fooshinDid you just assume XXI's color!? jk, part of my nature. Here's my serious response: XXI is supposed to be nearly as old as Old Kai if in DBM that's how he was sealed up. At least 75 million years. He looks kinda like a Namekian elder but unlike Guru who's relatively young compared to XXI. Corrupt, lost antennae, paler, lived longer? Sounds good of a theory that he's a corrupt namekian. Would explain the dragon in his apartment. Question is why would he compete here? We gotta wait.
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Post by fooshin on Nov 29, 2016 5:29:44 GMT
fooshinDid you just assume XXI's color!? jk, part of my nature. Here's my serious response: XXI is supposed to be nearly as old as Old Kai if in DBM that's how he was sealed up. At least 75 million years. He looks kinda like a Namekian elder but unlike Guru who's relatively young compared to XXI. Corrupt, lost antennae, paler, lived longer? Sounds good of a theory that he's a corrupt namekian. Would explain the dragon in his apartment. Question is why would he compete here? We gotta wait. There's the facial hair too, but he could have easily picked that up at any gag store.
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Post by Riskfan on Nov 29, 2016 14:05:02 GMT
I guess one other minor thing. It looks like xxi's tournament appearance is a bit namekian. He's got the pointy ears and the beehive nugget of an older one. Obviously there's no antenna and I'm assuming he's not green. He could be an albino namekian.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 30, 2016 12:54:09 GMT
I guess one other minor thing. It looks like xxi's tournament appearance is a bit namekian. He's got the pointy ears and the beehive nugget of an older one. Obviously there's no antenna and I'm assuming he's not green. He could be an albino namekian. Ow that explains why XXI hide inside his apartment when Gast arrived according to Bojack(dbm novel), maybe he sensed SUper Kami Guru inside Gast and was afraid lmao.
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Post by Riskfan on Nov 30, 2016 13:55:33 GMT
He could be an albino namekian. Ow that explains why XXI hide inside his apartment when Gast arrived according to Bojack(dbm novel), maybe he sensed SUper Kami Guru inside Gast and was afraid lmao. er... albino nemekians were a thing for DBZ abridged. I don't think they actually existed in dbz cannon
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Post by Andres on Nov 30, 2016 15:41:18 GMT
Ow that explains why XXI hide inside his apartment when Gast arrived according to Bojack(dbm novel), maybe he sensed SUper Kami Guru inside Gast and was afraid lmao. er... albino nemekians were a thing for DBZ abridged. I don't think they actually existed in dbz cannon He knows. That's why they referenced "Super Kami Guru" . He's just being coy.
@everyone
Sorry I haven't been here lately. Working my ass off the past three weeks. Thank you so much for commenting on this thread. Makes me blush a bit. that being said, I'll be replying to every single one of you between later today and tomorrow. Cheers!
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Post by Andres on Feb 28, 2017 15:02:30 GMT
By page 1285, we still don't know anything new about this. The Ginyu subplot took the lion's share of the story's attention. Ginyu will be important later, as will be Babidi.
We'll see if the Majinization/"Evil-ization" of the contestants has something to do with the XXI plot (provided it exists, of course). But we all know it DOES exist. Rad Yamcha says it himself:
If The Yamcher doesn't like a guy, that guy is totez EVIL. I mean, HITLER evil, at least.
Damn XXI. You scary
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 15, 2018 3:58:29 GMT
maybe xxi is a makaioshin. That, or a dragon who was given free will and is trying to sever the ties that bind all dragons.
AS for his power, maybe he has all the strength he needs, can use it at will and is only using cheap tricks to beat foes for fun.
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Post by Xeno Black on Oct 15, 2018 6:04:52 GMT
maybe xxi is a makaioshin. That, or a dragon who was given free will and is trying to sever the ties that bind all dragons. AS for his power, maybe he has all the strength he needs, can use it at will and is only using cheap tricks to beat foes for fun. I had the same assumptions too. Being a makaioshin makes sense or being a eternal dragon of some kind. Nonetheless, being at least 65 million years old makes him a ancient being unlike the which the z-fighters will ever face. Looking forward to seeing U18 Goku going against this impossible monster.
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 15, 2018 13:38:50 GMT
Then theres his presence with old kai. His old man look is probably for stealth reasons, but perhaps his back story was that he was the husband of the witch that fused with old kai.
Or the potara was a gift from the makioshin, as a token of peace between the 2 and that peace was shattered some how. Hence no more potara, and makaioshin xxi has the ultimate potara that fuse endlessly, but have a side effect of some kind, like premature aging, but you get incredible power.
Now xxi has become quite old and immortal somehow, and wants eternal youth to go with his immortality. his dragon can't effect his body for some reason, but can grant small trinkets and remote controls, much like shenron can't effect the androids.
Which is why yamcha is boastful later on.
xxi wants to merge with someone who has eternal youth and doesn't know about king piccolo already having it, and will fuse with someone for that reason.
That or he wants to reverse time to prevent his wife from being absorbed into old kai.
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Post by NamelessSaiyan on Jan 19, 2019 20:40:20 GMT
This thread is my favorite in the forum. XXI is such a mystery, it's my favorite subject in DBM. I had a theory that the change in U5 was XXI being sealed in the Z-Sword instead of the Old Kai. Then Gohan would break the Z-Sword while training in the Kais' world, releasing XXI instead of Old Kai, and all hell would break loose. Shin and Kibito thought the sword was unbreakable, so they couldn't have anticipated such an evil coming out of it. Unfortunately, this can't be the case because there's no Broly in U5 and we know things went differently from U16 and U18, so... IMO it's clear XXI wants to spread his evil across the multiverse, but his magic, although powerful, still isn't able to do it, otherwise he would already have knocked on U18's door. The question is who/what he's supposed to be and why he wants to do this. He might have a vendetta against the Kais for all we know and this would be his way to pay them back for what they did to him in all the other universes. Of course, he needs to cheese his way to victory because he can't disclose his identity just yet. The puppet seems to be a construct rather than an actual body stolen from someone else. Being able to send a puppet away and have it use high level magic like what we've seen is already a major feat in itself. I'm convinced his true form can wreck anyone, even androids. After all, he did ask the dragon how he could vanquish A18 "easily" in the tournament, which could be interpreted as "without arousing suspicion". Unfortunately for him, the fact he used the remote to do it resulted in just that! If the dragon can only answer questions, then who gave the remote to him? Did he conjure the remote himself? If so, how was he able to access something that possibly never existed in his own universe? Does he have another dragon with him? I have a theory that his puppet has access to his full power if need be, but he can only "program" the puppet to use one spell at a time, which is why he would've been screwed if Vegetto had been able to come back from the alternate dimension in time. If he wants to progress in the tournament, he'll have to defeat Buu, and this is the event that will expose him for sure. He'll have to do something impressive to defeat Buu, even if it's just dismantling him, as speculated in this thread. Warping Vegetto was already impressive, but a direct attack on Buu will pretty much give him away to Grand Supreme Kai as well as Old Kai. Right now he has to hope Babidi will stall the combatants long enough for his dragon balls to recharge, which is why Ginyu killing the Kais, Cell wreaking havoc, etc. all play into his plan. One has to wonder what he's gonna use them for next, though. Perhaps he still needs them to exploit Buu's weaknesses like he did with A18. But if that's the case, then he hasn't met Buu in his own universe, which means he's really, really old.
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Post by fooshin on Jan 20, 2019 6:15:08 GMT
I had a theory that the change in U5 was XXI being sealed in the Z-Sword instead of the Old Kai. Then Gohan would break the Z-Sword while training in the Kais' world, releasing XXI instead of Old Kai, and all hell would break loose. Wow, that's a fascinating idea that I never considered. I don't think it's likely however due to some of the narrator comments on universe changes. While it's possible he was the one sealed in the z sword, it would be highly unlikely that gohan broke it due to the fact that several times the narrator notes that certain things didnt happen in universe 5 in which the "big change" happened. For instance, broly wasn't born and freeza never fought his brother on colds world. In all likelihood, none of the other fighters at the tournament ever existed in u5.
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Post by drewsaga on Apr 16, 2019 19:46:50 GMT
Anybody think XXI might actually show up and finish Babidi off once and for all?
I mean, the disc looks like it is going to miss Babidi and even if it doesn't, we seen Babidi survive being cut in half. XXI might take the opportunity to finish off Babidi since he got in the way of his plans and now that he is weakened and/or has no minions to protect him (Bardock getting chopped in half).
XXI is a known opportunist after all, he could have sicked out his eldritch form on Android 18 and beat her easily but he wanted to avoid raising suspicion and attracting unwanted attention so he asked for a remote control that deactivates Android 18. Only characters like U12 Trunks, A16, U9 Yamcha, A17, Zen Buu (knowledged passed on from absorbtion) and U16/18's characters would even know about a deactivation remote and how XXI having one out of nowhere is suspicious. That leaves less suspicion than showing his true colors.
So I am thinking XXI is waiting for Babidi to lose all of his minions before taking action. Then again, maybe he does nothing the whole ordeal but I feel like it would at least give the Majin rebellion a purpose if it revealed XXI's abilities and intentions a bit more, especially when faced against a lesser wizard like Babidi.
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Post by Ultimate Perfection on Apr 17, 2019 5:08:13 GMT
I'm glad someone pointed me in the direction of this thread. In regards to the current DBM chapter: Chapter 68 - Budokai Royale 4, I have conceived my own theory that the Grand Kaioshin is not being manipulated by Zen Buu, but rather made a back door deal in hopes that they could find more information on XXI, his plans for the tournament, and how they can defeat him before he can make a wish on the Dragon Balls. I will site sources from both the webcomic and manga when needed, even if it may be information that we already know about. We first learn of Grand Kaioshin and Buu noticing XXI speaking ominous words after the killed participants of the tournament are revived by Porunga, on Chapter 115: However, both the Great Kaioshin and Buu, still enclosed into the shape of a ball, detected a furtive movement. In the dark corridor of Universe 5 was the silhouette of the old wizard who’d defeated Vegetto, also watching the scene unfold. Narrowing his senses to the maximum, Buu barely managed to catch a few of the words spoken by XXI. “Too bad...I’ll have my wishes when I win the tournament...no need to rush...” Perplexed, the djinn didn’t report his findings to anyone, not caring to alert the Kaiôshins.We then learn that Grand Kaioshin doesn't actually know Gast's "Buu Imprisonment" technique, but used his position as Grand Supreme Kai to gain Gast's trust and hand over Buu to the of the Multiverse Tournament. We find that out during Babidi's rebellion, when U18 Gohan commands him to imprison U11's Buu into a ball, to which Grand Kaioshin draws a blank. Webcomic Chapter 68: Page 1573, Panel 4 There is also evidence of this far earlier in Chapter 44: Page 983, Panels 1 & 2. The panel of the Kaioshin's secret meeting is expanded upon in Chapter 116 of the novel. “First things first, then. Have you begun to suspect that our Grand Kaiô Shin has been behaving strangely?”
“Indeed I have,” the other replied. “For him to forgive Buu as he did, and even take full responsibility for his imprisonment. We have never placed ourselves in such unnecessary risk, always favoring a safer approach, and yet he does the exact opposite!”
“Exactly. Personally, I believe he’s being manipulated, possibly even controlled by Buu!”
“I had begun to suspect the same thing. So quietly, I kept a close watch on his mind, his words and actions, seeing if he possessed his usual ticks. My findings, strangely enough, seem to indicate he's still himself. There are no signs of mental manipulation or faulty reasoning, I’m certain.”
“I’d hoped you had done so,” the East Kaioshin said. “While your findings were normal, there may be types of control that would’ve evaded your vigilant efforts. And that is not all... When I spoke with Gast, he warned me that his technique could not be so easily copied. While respectful of our abilities as Kaiôshin masters, he was shocked that our leader succeeded in a true duplication.”
“I see.”
“Naturally, I was greatly concerned by this. I asked the great Namek if he could detect whether or not the Grand Kaioshin was currently using the technique at all, and he replied that the ability was undetectable. There was no way to know for sure if he was merely simulating the effects, or if it was indeed being used properly.”
“So...you suspect that Buu is not really our captive at the moment, and that our Great Kaioshin is in league with him?” the North Kaioshin asked. “Why would he do such a thing? I’m certain he’s not being manipulated!”So now we are obviously aware of the Grand Kaioshin working together with Buu, and Grand Kaioshin is able to provide cover for Buu while he investigates during the night after the second round. Here is another interesting bit in the novel, with Grand Kaioshin and Zen Buu talking about how dangerous XXI is. Novel Chapter 117: Telepathically, Great Kaiô Shin then spoke to the Djinn.
“What is it? What happened?”
“This...this guy...” Buu replied. “Whatever IT is...it’s clearly not normal. Not only had the entire apartment disappeared as if it had been sucked into outer space, but there are two beings present, and neither resembles the old man we’ve been seeing! As soon as I saw them, one attacked—disintegrating me completely, down to the smallest cell. Before now, only Vegetto was capable of that! I wouldn’t say necessarily that this person, if it is a person, is more powerful than myself or Vegetto, but...his attack was fully effective, and the energy level was very high. This is definitely something to worry about.”
“Hmmm,” the Grand Kaioshin thought. “This is indeed disturbing. Will you be able to return tomorrow night and try to learn more? We must make sure the security of the arena is not threatened, and find out both the identity of those two characters and what they are up to.”
“I’ll do it,” Buu replied, “but I’m sure they’ll be prepared for me if I try again. It could get complicated. But, the main part of my work has been accomplished, and the fights we’ll see tomorrow should be beautiful entertainment!”
I noticed how Grand Kaioshin asks if Buu can return to Universe 5's apartment and investigate a little more, but Buu is unsure of how to enter the apartment, when XXI and the mysterious, dragonlike figure in the apartment will be prepared to destroy him on sight. Throughout much of Chapter 44 of the webcomic, Buu uses his magic to grant abilities to various fighters that need a helping hand to contend against their stronger opponents in Round 3 of the tournament, including #18 of Universe 14. Novel Chapter 127 tells us of Buu's plan to restore #18's artificial energy in order to force him to fight against her: Nearby, hovering over the palm of Grand Kaioshin, Buu began to whistle inconspicuously. He might have magically restored 17’s power as well, had he known at the time. It would’ve been no trouble, he just hadn’t seen the point. Besides, the djinn had been far too preoccupied with XXI — repairing 18 had been a necessity in order to motive the wizard to reveal himself.We clearly saw how worried XXI was about facing #18 earlier in the webcomic on Chapter 44, Page 993: The statement above is correct, being further verified by Buu's dialogue in novel Chapter 138: " I hadn’t repaired the girl [#18], she would’ve been crushed by the gravity and we wouldn’t have gotten to see XXI at work — even though in the end he did nothing. I do find him... concerning.”An excerpt from novel chapter 131, after #18 is deactivated by XXI: Over on the Kaioshin balcony, Buu and the Grand Kaioshin were in full agreement. This magician represented a mystery that needed illuminating quickly, and the consequences of not solving this puzzle could lead the tournament to disaster at any moment.Since reading this, I presumed that Buu would hatch a plan that would both fulfill his own amusement, as well as finding a way to unearth XXI far more quickly than by just investigating him on their own, and in by watching him participate in a few small tournament matches. And right before Round 4, we have the start of Babidi's rebellion. Funny enough, Zen Buu also knew of Babidi's plan all along. Novel Chapter 142: “And here...we...go!” Zen Buu chuckled with a smile.
Right before the shocked eyes of his divine guardian, the pink ball of gum suddenly vanished. And he wasn’t the only one, as cries of shock and surprise were heard all around the ring. Grand Kaioshin scanned his field of vision in a single glance, taking note.Webcomic Chapter 59, Page 1354 Novel Chapter 142: As for Zen Buu, he was inwardly sneering. He already knew exactly where the arena was. From the very start of the tournament, he’d planted parts of himself all over the asteroid, like little security cameras stationed everywhere, constantly reporting in. Of course, they’d been caught up in Gast’s technique and he had to start all over after that — but he’d managed to cover a good portion of the area already. Parts of himself were hidden inside the apartments and even outside the stadium, so only his main body had actually been teleported.
‘Oh, it’s indeed an awfully long distance away,’ he thought, focusing his thoughts on an eye he had formed back at the tournament. It observed everything from a perch on the dividing wall with the spectators. “I’ll let you all do the searching for now. If I helped, I’d certainly miss out on quite the show.”
A passage of possible foreshadow? Novel Chapter 147: A soldier cautiously approached the door leading to the Universe 5 apartments... Babidi watched carefully from his crystal ball, quite concerned with the other wizard — who momentarily was hidden within the refuge. Though there’d been no sign of the old magician for quite some time, he was no doubt still inside, and dangerous. Babidi definitely didn’t want XXI casting any spells that might go against his own. The soldier, suspicious and hesitant, was nonetheless compelled by his master to investigate. But the instant his hand touched the door-handle the majin was seized by violent tremors. A wave of pain bolted through him, but he was unable to cry out — his very skin became scarlet as if set aflame by purple sparks. Then, in a second, he disintegrated to a pile of ash. Babidi’s already yellow face turned quite pale, impressed and a bit intimidated by the spell guarding the entryway. The mysterious wizard had indeed made it impossible for anyone to enter his apartment. After a moment of waiting to see if XXI would show himself, Babidi used his better judgment and decided to leave well enough alone. The threat presented by a possibly superior magician was far too great a risk to his plans. And besides, he still had plenty of fighters left that were resisting him as it was — he needed to take control of all the Universes before some disruptive element came along and put a stop to all his efforts."Some disruptive element", hmm? It's quite cryptic to whom the author is talking about, but Babidi fears of a greater force from outside will stop his plans from taking root. As far as we know of, there are only two beings which have more powerful magic than Babidi: Zen Buu, and XXI. We know how much influence Zen Buu has over the tournament since revealing himself in his rampage during the second half of the second round. One of the most recent chapters, and one that inspired the idea of my theory. Novel Chapter 148: He certainly wanted the tournament to continue after Babidi’s charade was put to an end, an end he would most assuredly deliver when the time came. But, first and foremost, this kind of chaos could lead to fun of the unexpected and exciting variety. And there was also the chance Babidi’s plot might draw out the ever-elusive XXI, cause him to reveal more about himself. That would certainly be worth waiting for. But were Babidi to actually acquire the Dragon Balls, Zen Buu’s re-appearance would make a short end to the chaos.And eventually, I came to a conclusion that Zen Buu was indirectly manipulating Babidi all along, without him actually knowing it. What better way to get the attention of a very dark and powerful sorcerer (XXI) by helping a less dark and powerful sorcerer over time, and silently manipulate the tournament matches to suit his own plan to further your own as well? That is why I think Zen Buu actually granted multiple participants useful abilities within the third round of the tournament. It didn't matter if the fighter won or lost his battle; each fight still allowed Babidi to take notice of strong and EVIL fighters and recruit them into his forces. Some of Babidi's henchmen were also Majinized indirectly because of Zen Buu's interloping in the tournament. I will give a full list: And eventually, I came to a conclusion that Zen Buu was indirectly manipulating Babidi all along, without him actually knowing it. What better way to get the attention of a very dark and powerful sorcerer (XXI) by helping a less dark and powerful sorcerer over time, and silently manipulate the tournament matches to suit his own plan to further your own as well? That is why I think Zen Buu actually granted multiple participants useful abilities within the third round of the tournament. It didn't matter if the fighter won or lost his battle; each fight still allowed Babidi to take notice of strong and EVIL fighters and recruit them into his forces. Some of Babidi's henchmen were also Majinized indirectly because of Zen Buu's interloping in the tournament. I will give a full list of fighters that Buu directly or indirectly helped for Babidi to Majinize: Uub: his new magic abilities help him win his match against U11 Buu. Babidi tries to cheat and gets stopped by East Kaioshin. U11 is out of the tournament, and Babidi decides to take over the tournament by force. Sets up the events for Babidi's rebellion. Fat Buu: becomes a smarter fighter and learns how to hide pieces of himself in the ring. Loses to Uub. Later buys time for Babidi against U18 Gohan, when he tries to absorb him after the latter breaking their pocket dimension. Kakarot: new tail giving him Super Oozaru transformation. Loses to U18 Vegeta, but is left to die by U13 Vegeta. Kakarot angrily searches for Raditz in their apartment with Nappa following, but become possessed by Babidi undetected. Raditz leaving to visit U9's Old Kaioshin for power-up. Old Kai prevents U9 and Raditz from leaving their apartment, preventing Raditz from Babidi, but prevents U9 from helping the spectators. Tapion: can hide himself inside Hirudegarn. Loses to Cell and dies, angering Raichi. Cell proven to be powerful by Babidi, gets possessed and becomes Babidi's most powerful Majin. Android #18: Artificial energy restored. Can withstand 1000G and is able to draw XXI out from his apartment. Loses and gets deactivated, angers Android #17. #17 gets possessed by Babidi undetected in the midst of chaos. (novel only) King Cold: convince stronger opponents to restrict themselves in a fight. Loses to U16 Bra, but changes bodies with her. Ginyu subplot revealed. Vegetto beats up Bra and restores her to her original body. Freeza, Cooler and Cold/Ginyu all become possessed by Babidi. Bra takes a nap, preventing her from intervening with Babidi's takeover. Raichi: Hatchiyack Machine fully recharged. Has ghosts powerful enough to fight Gast to the point that he has to kill Raichi. Hatchiyack released, damages tournament arena and forces Gast to use full power. Babidi uses this right opportunity to teleport all non-Majin participants away from arena.
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Post by supergojita3 on Apr 17, 2019 15:11:03 GMT
So xxi is quite strong, to the point even buu is impressed. In fact he says he doesn't know for sure if he's stronger than vegetto or himself, but it is certain he's quite strong and is using vegettos skill. Good to know.
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Post by drewsaga on Apr 18, 2019 0:13:52 GMT
Ultimate PerfectionI also wonder if Zen Buu is trying to use Babidi as bait for XXI to show himself, but what if that backfires and XXI manages to *steal* Babidi's magic and his abilities? That means that XXI can "majinize" people to do his bidding AND he can seal up Zen Buu in a cocoon, meaning that Zen Buu loses and is out of the picture, and he could try to control Vegetto this way too and that's when the other visions come true. Or if XXI does take Babidi's magic abilities for himself he might use it to gag Buu into forfeiting his match or he will be sealed up and Zen Buu will be too terrified to do anything about it. Imagine XXI holding a nigh-omnipotent pink bubblegum man hostage, now that would be badass and horrifying.
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Post by NamelessSaiyan on Apr 20, 2019 18:31:42 GMT
I must say the frame looks suspiciously close to Porunga and Shenron having some fun chatting and plotting, but why would Porunga not be able to use his own Dragon Balls at will? Unless they're Shenron's... If Porunga won the tournament... well, he seizes his own Dragon Balls, and perhaps the others. But why? What made him (and Shenron) want to dominate the Multiverse? We really need more info, sadly. Divergence happens early and U5 misses key events of DBZ. That's pretty much it. A dragon could be in the same tier as Zen Buu in terms of power and is really the only alternative if we consider that: 1) None of the other races can rise to such heights by themselves (Vegetto is a fusion and even he was defeated by XXI) 2) It's likely XXI's powers are innate considering how old he is Using Babidi to lure XXI is such a Zen Buu thing to do, it makes sense. Does anybody know if each universe does indeed have a set of Namekian dragon balls to revive dead fighters with? It doesn't make much sense for the DBs to remain in existence in universes where Nameks were defeated, though I doubt the Vargas are gonna run out of wishes any time soon.
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Post by supergojita3 on Apr 20, 2019 23:57:56 GMT
To beat buu, what if he somehow uses the rules to have someone attack him during the match? He wins by DQ. Not some magic or power trick.
I mean like hypnosis or something on someone who can stand in the gravity rush in and attack him, and it looks like outside help for buu. You kow what I mean.
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Post by squirz96 on Apr 21, 2019 15:13:57 GMT
There is not much we know about XXI. I hope we will get more hints during his fight with Zen Buu. Now if he would defeat Buu revealing some of his powers this could become breaking point for Vegetto. Here is why: a) In Vegetto's mind him, Bra and Zen Buu are most capable fighters in the whole tournament. b) For 20 years since his appearance he haven't got a real challenge. Sayians usually trive for it. c) The only child of his who actually trains is Bra. In SSJ2 she is slightly weaker then his SSJ. Yet she refuses to train her mind and control this form. Putting heavy clothes is not control training. d) His other children don't show any slight interest in training. e) Distant relationship with Gohan.
Now considering these and that XXI used magic trick against him rather then giving him actual challenge it could become breaking point.
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