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Post by Conqueror Geng on Sept 23, 2016 5:27:53 GMT
What Raichi said to Tapion seemed hopeless, but it was probably empathic (making reference to the dead tuffles). When Raichi says his goal is complete, to me it shows he's not a person that wants to fight just because. Meaning, if there were no Saiyans to exterminate, he wouldn't start a fight. And rightly so, after learning there was going to be saiyans, he quickly changed his mind. As for Tapion, I don't believe it has to do with him, but the "sword" which is magical. SSJ Kid Trunks on the U16 novel was able to behead Hildegarn with Tapion's sword as well. Too bad Cold didn't face Tapion. His theory about sword being special would have been correct then. Poor bastard never catches a break. I would certainly approve a mini-comic like that. In the view of the foilhat theorists that believe future trunk's sword was actually given to him by Tapion, Cold was right anyway.
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Post by Ashanark on Sept 23, 2016 5:39:13 GMT
I would certainly approve a mini-comic like that. In the view of the foilhat theorists that believe future trunk's sword was actually given to him by Tapion, Cold was right anyway. Isn't Salagir one of those? I can't remember; if so, it's one of the few things canon to DBM that I can't really accept. Why would Hoi come to Earth in the Future Timeline if everybody was killed by the Androids? How could he have freed Tapion without the Dragon Balls? Why wouldn't Hildegarn have destroyed everything if there weren't SS3-tier people to stop him? Why would Tapion and Trunks have bonded to the point that Tapion would give him his sword? Or do people just think that Tapion sealed Hildegarn inside himself and Future Trunks killed him? To me, it makes a lot more sense to say that Future Trunks just got his sword from Gohan.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Sept 23, 2016 5:41:01 GMT
I would certainly approve a mini-comic like that. In the view of the foilhat theorists that believe future trunk's sword was actually given to him by Tapion, Cold was right anyway. Isn't Salagir one of those? I can't remember; if so, it's one of the few things canon to DBM that I can't really accept. Why would Hoi come to Earth in the Future Timeline if everybody was killed by the Androids? How could he have freed Tapion without the Dragon Balls? Why wouldn't Hildegarn have destroyed everything if there weren't SS3-tier people to stop him? Why would Tapion and Trunks have bonded to the point that Tapion would give him his sword? Or do people just think that Tapion sealed Hildegarn inside himself and Future Trunks killed him? To me, it makes a lot more sense to say that Future Trunks just got his sword from Gohan.
I don't think so, given that 18 broke it on the Anime (not sure if the same happened in Manga). Besides, that movie is non-canon. Salagir uses some movies as DBM canon but I think for him it's usually like this: Manga >> Anime (non-filler) >> Selected Movies. The later can't contradict any for the former (that's why there are modifications implemented on all the movie specials).
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 23, 2016 6:27:19 GMT
I would certainly approve a mini-comic like that. In the view of the foilhat theorists that believe future trunk's sword was actually given to him by Tapion, Cold was right anyway. Isn't Salagir one of those? I can't remember; if so, it's one of the few things canon to DBM that I can't really accept. Why would Hoi come to Earth in the Future Timeline if everybody was killed by the Androids? How could he have freed Tapion without the Dragon Balls? Why wouldn't Hildegarn have destroyed everything if there weren't SS3-tier people to stop him? Why would Tapion and Trunks have bonded to the point that Tapion would give him his sword? Or do people just think that Tapion sealed Hildegarn inside himself and Future Trunks killed him? To me, it makes a lot more sense to say that Future Trunks just got his sword from Gohan.
In fairness he did also make or endorse Future Majin Attack where the plot bent itself over twice to explain why Future Gohan defeated Babidi and Dabura over the most common (and now canon) theory that they just showed up later in Future Trunks timeline and Trunks beat them before Buu woke up. I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a modified story in U12, U14, & U15 where Hoi comes to Earth and somehow Tapion ends up giving Trunks a sword.
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Post by fooshin on Sept 23, 2016 14:12:51 GMT
Khan,
I was just saying that raichi is claiming he's suffered a great loss (the rest of his species being murdered) and there's nothing he can do about it but when people show up at his door claiming that they can revive all his people he says why bother. Yeah, maybe the damage is done for raichi but at least bring back your people if you're going to complain about your great loss.
Regarding tapions strength vs raichi. It's interesting that Tapion and minosha are only referred to as musicians and not warriors even though they carry swords and are fearless enough to fight a giant monster. Even if Tapion is a trained warrior, he doesn't know about or use his ki and therefore even if he really was the best of his people it wouldn't make him any stronger than hercule. Who knows what raichi's got under those robes, but it's reasonable to assume that as a scientist that sits on his ass all day that all the strength he has is his brain power coupled with cybernetic enhancements which give him telepathy and apparently some telekinesis. None of that gives his body the strength to endure huge amounts of gravity. It pretty much would come down to a scientist from a 10g world vs Tapion being perhaps at best a hercule from a 1g.
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Post by fooshin on Sept 23, 2016 14:25:09 GMT
Pan,
I do really like that theory even though I think it's going a little too dark for dragonball. West kai killing baby broly does give it some more validity thou.
One problem to expand on what someone else pointed out is that even though thru one circumstance or another the few evil characters that are being allowed to leave do die one way or another, that still does nothing for all the rest of the evil in all the other universes. There are only 21 universes involved in this tournament and there's an infinite amount of others so don't see how him killing off cell and buu and everyone else here would do anything in the grand scheme of things.
Furthermore, in the vision with piccolo claiming that all the universes are in danger, it seems unlikely that the grand kai attempting to rid all the universes of great evils would somehow imperil all of the universes. That would imply more that he would have to be motivated by evil not a misguided sense of good from Piccolo's perspective.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Sept 23, 2016 17:47:14 GMT
Khan, I was just saying that raichi is claiming he's suffered a great loss (the rest of his species being murdered) and there's nothing he can do about it but when people show up at his door claiming that they can revive all his people he says why bother. Yeah, maybe the damage is done for raichi but at least bring back your people if you're going to complain about your great loss. Regarding tapions strength vs raichi. It's interesting that Tapion and minosha are only referred to as musicians and not warriors even though they carry swords and are fearless enough to fight a giant monster. Even if Tapion is a trained warrior, he doesn't know about or use his ki and therefore even if he really was the best of his people it wouldn't make him any stronger than hercule. Who knows what raichi's got under those robes, but it's reasonable to assume that as a scientist that sits on his ass all day that all the strength he has is his brain power coupled with cybernetic enhancements which give him telepathy and apparently some telekinesis. None of that gives his body the strength to endure huge amounts of gravity. It pretty much would come down to a scientist from a 10g world vs Tapion being perhaps at best a hercule from a 1g. I believe this will serve as great conversation material and to showcase the point of view of Gast vs. Raichi. Given what you just wrote in bold, Gast has precisely done the contrary on that: just got a quick, almost instant revenge and quickly concentrated in bringing his species back. As for Raichi... I don't know. If he can do telekineses... would it be really out of realms of possibility if he can use it on himself? I mean, it wasn't clear he had any problems at 100 G or it was just the shellshock from an SSJ3 (even if he was at SSJ2 level he would still be shaking, IMO). I wonder how will he do when he enters the ring next fight.
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 23, 2016 22:07:20 GMT
Pan, I do really like that theory even though I think it's going a little too dark for dragonball. West kai killing baby broly does give it some more validity thou. One problem to expand on what someone else pointed out is that even though thru one circumstance or another the few evil characters that are being allowed to leave do die one way or another, that still does nothing for all the rest of the evil in all the other universes. There are only 21 universes involved in this tournament and there's an infinite amount of others so don't see how him killing off cell and buu and everyone else here would do anything in the grand scheme of things. Furthermore, in the vision with piccolo claiming that all the universes are in danger, it seems unlikely that the grand kai attempting to rid all the universes of great evils would somehow imperil all of the universes. That would imply more that he would have to be motivated by evil not a misguided sense of good from Piccolo's perspective. I think the Grand Supreme Kai master plan will involve the entire multiverse being purged if my theory is correct, not just the universes at the tournament. Off the top of my head he could be planning to destroy the multiverse by combining all of them into a single universe and eliminating elements he sees us too dangerous, like the Saiyans, Buu, Cold's family, etc. If he used a plan like that it puts all universes in danger, while heinous act in the mind of a god it can still be somewhat Utopia Justifies the Means type of plan. Sure merging all the universes into one would destroy off of them and all the people's lives as they know it would cease and become something different, but some universes where evil won and life is dying or has been eliminated (such as U20 Broly) putting it under one banner and eliminating all the threats that created such universes with more authoritative gods who actively micro-manage the universes to make it orderly as U1 is still be a misguided sense of good. I admit this probably isn't likely to happen. I'm mostly brain storming, since we have few clues to who will put the whole multiverse in danger. The Kais seem like the least likely candidates to be antagonists, until I saw your Deus Ex Machia thread and I started thinking about the differences between U1 and U10 being something happened with the Kais. It got me thinking at how U1 Kais operate by being more hands on and actively shaping their universe. From that it go me thinking about how U18 characters were suspicious of the hosts would use inter dimensional travel to throw a tournament. It got my brain thinking what if that was a clue. The Grand Supreme Kai's suspicious actions noted by East Supreme Kai got me thinking what if he is pulling strings and is the one who is threatening the multiverse or at least part of it. It might be a twist not everyone would see coming since characters like U4 Buu, original character XX1, or even Vegetto snapping (along with his less heroic nature being highlighted) are more likely candidates that could be used to divert attention from the fact that U1 is the driving force of this story by setting up the tournament and their special showed them go pretty extreme, such as killing Freeza, Cooler, and Broly as children rather than having them raised by better people so they may not end up as monsters, that could possibly evolve into threatening the multiverse' existence to fix everything. I won't be surprised if this isn't the case, but I thought it might be a cool twist that could possibly work without feeling like an Ass Pull.
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Post by Ashanark on Sept 24, 2016 20:24:33 GMT
I was just saying that raichi is claiming he's suffered a great loss (the rest of his species being murdered) and there's nothing he can do about it but when people show up at his door claiming that they can revive all his people he says why bother. Yeah, maybe the damage is done for raichi but at least bring back your people if you're going to complain about your great loss. I agree with Genghis that Raichi's mindset will probably be a factor in the Gast/Raichi fight. Even though Gast has only once tried to talk his opponent around (King Piccolo) and every other time has just flat-out killed them (Frieza, Cooler, Cold, Cell Jr.), I still think he would try to work with somebody as long as they have even a chance of redemption. I really want to see him analyze Raichi, just like he did to King Piccolo, and try to find a way to reason with him. "Why do you think killing Saiyans will give your life meaning?" Whether or not Raichi actually listens would make a lot of suspense.
And this is the sort of thing I think Gast vs. Raichi needs. I don't think any fight in DBM so far excites me as much as this one does, since Raichi has such a unique style and Gast has been hyped up so much. The only problem is that Gast vs. Raichi is the only major Round Three fight where the fighters have no personal drama. (Cell vs. Hildegarn didn't, but Hildegarn has no personality.) Gast isn't a Saiyan, so Raichi doesn't have a grudge against him, and Raichi's not some generic evil guy, so Gast can't just murder him. Neither of them have met each other before, either. There really needs to be something in this fight to make it personal--to keep it more than just two random guys fighting each other.
Raichi gravity issue: Wasn't it implied somewhere that as long as Raichi's sitting on his little orb, the gravity doesn't affect him? As much as I'd like to think that his huffing and puffing after getting hit by Vegeta was just shock, I don't know if he'd be strong enough to resist 1000g.
But then again, I never really saw the point of increasing the gravity anyway--it favors the brute-strength fighters and hinders the people who actually rely on strategy. I hope they don't increase it again.
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Post by sardorim on Sept 28, 2016 0:58:07 GMT
I'm sure Bra will defeat Gast in some way. Would be interesting if their fight ends up with her respecting him and Gast willing to help her tame her SS2 state.
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Post by mysalsa on Sept 28, 2016 4:13:57 GMT
GAST vs RAICHI
Honestly, I think that Gast is going to win. We've already seen he's got a whole bag of tricks, and he's probably even stronger than we've seen. And if anything, I think the satisfaction of Gast beating yet ANOTHER Saiyan will be enough for him.
GOKU vs UUB
Goku, obviously. I mean, Uub is powerful and all (and I'm sure Goku's very proud of his pupil) but there's no way that Goku's going to throw the match. VEGETA vs Cell
Cell obviously has to be at least as strong as SSJ3 Goku was in DBZ Movie 13, but we don't know where exactly U18 Vegeta is at. HOWEVER, I do think that both Vegeta and Goku have surpassed Boo Arc Ultimate Gohan level by now. I also think that its very possible that Vegeta has achieved SSJ3 (or who knows, maybe Elder Kaioshin unlocked his potential), considering that fact that U13 Vegeta was able to achieve it because he got pissed off; and U18 Vegeta is already MUCH stronger than that. I do think it'll be played up for the dramatic potential, but Vegeta will have ultimately just have been toying with Cell the whole time. XXI vs BOOProbably the most ambiguous fight in all of this tournament. They both have incredibly powerful magic abilities, and if its true that Boo has "absorbed anyone in his universe with a power he thought worth absorbing" his raw power alone should be enough rival just about anyone's. He's pulling the strings in ways we likely don't realize; and I think his experience with XXI in Chapter 44 may have widened his area of concern. He fiends for a good challenge, but he's not stupid. Also, XXI could possibly pull a similar stunt to when he fought Vegetto (which leads me to believe he isn't very physically strong). If he did do such a thing, and it worked; I feel like people would be pissed... so I doubt it will happen. I predict either Boo wins, or XXI causes mass destruction and puts the tournament on hold. GAST vs SON BRAI've been waiting for this one. Seeing Bra's performance in her fight with King Cold, I think she knows better than to underestimate her opponent. That being said, I think she'll have a good fight; but ultimately lose. Gast's goal is too important to him, and by chance if Goku, Vegeta (or maybe even Boo) win the tournament instead... he may still be able to get his wish. I doubt Bra will risk going SSJ2, even though its probably the only way she'd have a chance; and I think she'll be satisfied having fought so far, and losing to someone will more honor and determination than even she. I think the idea of her being trained by Gast is actually quite interesting, and could possibly provide good humor (what with their clashing personality types despite the fact that at the root of their characters, they may not be so different after all). I feel like we'll probably learn a lot more about Bra by the time the special chapter is over, and possibly why she lost. Bottom line: Bra is my favorite character in THIS series... but I think the story will likely go in the direction that does NOT end in her victory. - Side Note: Though unlikely, it's possible that Bra's loss could spark the rampage Vegetto goes on. GOKU vs VEGETA
The long awaited fight. Obviously there will be butthurt. If this were actually Dragon Ball, Goku would win 100%. But this DBM, where anything can happen. Even IF Vegeta actually unveils SSJ3 (or something comparable to its power) it could still be pretty even in the end. Vegeta seemed worried (or at least, annoyed) by U16 SSJ3 Gotenks so I doubt he's THAT strong. Obviously no God form, so that's out of the question. This one's pretty up in the air, but I don't think the victory will really matter in the grand scheme of things. GAST vs BOO
Boo was able to escape Gast's spell, so he obviously can't win with that. I don't think Gast is up to Boo's level yet, so I don't think he'll be able to win by killing him either. Unless Gast has something REALLY special up his sleeve... I don't see him winning this. Since he's such an enigma to everyone (even Boo) I think he'll be willing to humor him until his crushing defeat. Maybe Gast knows Bobbidi's sealing spell? Sorry Gast, I don't think you'll take this one. And now for the grand finale...
Granted the entire tournament hasn't been completely demolished by this point (either by XXI, Vegetto, etc.) I believe it will ultimately come down to either Goku or Vegeta vs Boo. They stand no chance. If U16 Vegetto was the only other person comparable to his power, the only way they could even have the slimmest chance of victory would be if they fused... but I doubt the tournament organizers would allow that. It's possible that since Boo didn't get to fight Vegetto in tournament, that he would somehow force the two to fuse, regardless of what the organizers say... but that's getting into a bit of a gray area. The only real difference I see (which really isn't a difference at all) is whether or not a Genkidama will work on Boo. Vegeta doesn't know it, so Goku being in the finally round is the only way this can happen. It's all too much to speculate, and like many others; I believe the tournament will have a big disruption before any final match can take place. As for the stuff that's got to happen according to Bardock... Vegetto: We know that Vegetto's a real bitch when it comes to Gohan, so this could be for multiple reasons. - U16/18 Gohan is Ginyu (Dumb, but possible)
- Vegetto is Ginyu (Also dumb, but equally possible)
- Vegetto just went crazy because he's a real hothead, or maybe Gohan did something to set him off
- Maybe someone (possibly XXI) possessed everyone except for Vegetto, Boo, and Gast and they're all fighting against everyone in the tournament. It may not seem that way on the surface, but it's possible. The whole Dragon Ball thing could be their plan to make sure Vegetto can't save everyone without killing them.
- VEGETTO is posessed. How or why is up for debate, but it's also possible. I don't think he's necessarily "pure of heart" (remember Bobbidi can hide the "M"s) so he could possibly be controlled by anyone who tries. Everyone obviously wants to stop whatever the possessed Vegetto is doing, and Gohan has the piece of the Dragon ball that prevents him from having his wish whatever it is.
The Dragon Ball:
- Already established, they could be talking about Vegetto (whether possessed, body swapped, etc.) and are trying to stop it; as we all suspected.
- This could be entirely UNRELATED to Vegetto, and the true enemy is someone else.
Yamcha: He's obviously fighting SOME threat that no else can stand up to, most likely Vegetto. Maybe he's just talking to himself/having a dream. The reason WHY this is, even though he himself states he's clearly outmatched by a wide margin of the competition is still up for grabs. There could be something special about him that occurred that we're not aware of (maybe explained in a special chapter?).
Piccolo, Bra, and Vegeta: Perhaps some kind of important figure has appeared, and Piccolo simply wants them to stay civil (Omni-King ish level, even thought it can't be HIM). It's also possible (like many people have theorized, that Piccolo might fuse with either himself or Gast. Other than that... I don't know.
Goku and Cell Junior: Most likely is going to happen during the Vegeta/Cell fight. Could be Cell's plan to deceive Goku... then again, it could just be the Cell Junior that Cell killed and he wants to plot against his father with the help of Goku.
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Post by GreatWyrmGold on Sept 30, 2016 15:00:13 GMT
...What? HOWEVER, I do think that both Vegeta and Goku have surpassed Boo Arc Ultimate Gohan level by now. Why? Wasn't the Grand Kaioshin's "trap-Buu-in-a-sphere" thing just Buu playing along with some plan the two were working on together? I'm pretty sure that the more powerful Namekian becomes the dominant personality, so Gast is improbable. As for fusing with himself...I've heard you can go blind doing that. Or it could just be a bad guy Goku befriends. He's done it a lot before. Salagir even had Trunks lampshade it.
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Post by fooshin on Sept 30, 2016 21:33:14 GMT
Boo did not escape gast's trap. Gast released buu to the grand kiaoshin and he may or may not be actually containing him.
Cell Jr is strange cause if he's holding a grudge it sure didn't stop him from cheering on dad when he was fighting hildegarn.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 6, 2016 4:59:11 GMT
Quarter finals huh?
Goku Vs Uub: Gotta be Goku but not a one shot win. Think of how the rematch would be against Vegeta or Cell? Finally settling the score or revisiting the battle he forfeited? Uub isn't really that significant compared to the other two in terms of a rematch.
Vegeta Vs Cell: I'm not sure what Vegeta said in the beginning about his surprise or what not but definitely a chance to redeem himself for the whole android thing.
XXI Vs Buu: We know it's XXI. His dark Shenron and stuff. But it'll be one hell of a fight between two beings who can manipulate reality.
Not sure who actually won in Bra vs Cold. And we didn't reach Raichi Vs Gast yet.
Bra/Gast: Gast. Teach Bra how to be at peace in her mind despite hardships and struggles. Bra/Raichi: Could fight all the strong ghosts that died in Raichi's journey.
Cold/Gast: If 6th form only goes up to Perfect Cell then that'd be disappointing in Gast's eyes. Cold/Raichi: Destroy all the monkeys and the one who summoned them!!!
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Post by fooshin on Oct 6, 2016 12:47:02 GMT
It seems a bit out of character of raichi to just accept that santa buu gave him an impossible gift. Even uub was really suspicious. I'm wondering if we'll get a comment about this at the beginning of his fight.
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Post by Archon on Oct 7, 2016 0:44:54 GMT
It seems a bit out of character of raichi to just accept that santa buu gave him an impossible gift. Even uub was really suspicious. I'm wondering if we'll get a comment about this at the beginning of his fight. It's possible he doesn't know who/what could have done it however and he's keeping silent because he doesn't want to reveal something to another fighter or raise suspicion that he's onto them. Raichi seems like a calculating type so that'd be my guess.
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Post by caihlem on Oct 11, 2016 10:14:12 GMT
Not sure who actually won in Bra vs Cold. Bra won, she sliced through Cold like a hot knife through butter ^^°
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 11, 2016 16:27:16 GMT
Not sure who actually won in Bra vs Cold. Bra won, she sliced through Cold like a hot knife through butter ^^° "Or so you think! If you didn't a thing about MERCHANDISING!" Jk. Idk, Frieza survived a horizontal bifurcation. Who's to say Cold can't just do the same, albeit weaker, and use his right side to attack? Or the bs page where it was a dream. Could be either.
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Post by fooshin on Oct 11, 2016 20:53:10 GMT
Not sure who actually won in Bra vs Cold. Bra won, she sliced through Cold like a hot knife through butter ^^° Well... her body's going to win.
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Post by Kaio del Norte on Oct 12, 2016 6:22:57 GMT
One more prediction :
-Goku's and Vegeta's fight will be interrupted and possibly not resumed.
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