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Post by SuperVegeta on Apr 5, 2020 4:30:24 GMT
A interesting Idea: Perhaps, as she slowly killing off everyone there, Zen Buu gets bored of her shenanigans, and decides to IT everyone there, Catching her in the act, to the contestants horror, but BEFORE Vegito can stop her, Babidi suffocates in his ball, causing her to be somewhat confused as to why everyone is looking at her like she’s killed their friends, until she realizes she HAS killed all their friends, including Piccolo and Gohan and THAT’S what will get her disowned .
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Post by Eldagusto on Apr 8, 2020 10:30:14 GMT
I think the Vision of Vegitto Choke Holding Gohan may have come from them Killing Bra to stop her, just a guess. I want XXI to interfere though!
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Post by SuperVegeta on Apr 8, 2020 18:06:10 GMT
I think the Vision of Vegitto Choke Holding Gohan may have come from them Killing Bra to stop her, just a guess. I want XXI to interfere though! Me too, He's got to show of his power, and would love to to see him at 1% decimating Bra.
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Post by Eldagusto on Apr 9, 2020 5:33:23 GMT
I hope it ends because Gast's Enlightenment is enough to pierce the veil of Zen Buu's deception and he hones in on the Arena. Few people would have the possibility to pull one over on Zen Buu and Gast is one of the Few. Hell if he even suspected he could seal Zenbuu hoping the obfuscation of the Arena is gone during his imprisonment.
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Post by SuperVegeta on May 3, 2020 5:52:24 GMT
I hope it ends because Gast's Enlightenment is enough to pierce the veil of Zen Buu's deception and he hones in on the Arena. Few people would have the possibility to pull one over on Zen Buu and Gast is one of the Few. Hell if he even suspected he could seal Zenbuu hoping the obfuscation of the Arena is gone during his imprisonment. I would like that also buu stuck in his ball form again would be nice to see
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Post by iron leaf on May 3, 2020 9:23:27 GMT
The selection for "U16 Gohan Dies" is the most popular option how the rebellion might end with 21 votes (current state of the poll). Ironically, the fight against Majin Bra continues after U16 Gohan died at the end of last main chapter.
The more I think about it, the more I believe Majin Bra will kill them all at the arena. Although Vegetto & Co. returning is a popular option, especially on the main page comment section, I don't believe this will happen. It's so obvious that you can be sure Salagir won't choose it. And after Ouv gave some insight how Salagir & the artists work on the storyboard (in the other thread about the U13 Special), I think excluding the "Heroes return to solve the problem" option is a way to subvert our expectations. Additionally, I cannot believe Vegetto will return and save the day, when Salagir made fun of this idea himself with the mini-comic where SSJ3 Vegetto knocks out Majin Bra with on punch.
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Post by Son Pan on May 28, 2020 23:53:36 GMT
The selection for "U16 Gohan Dies" is the most popular option how the rebellion might end with 21 votes (current state of the poll). Ironically, the fight against Majin Bra continues after U16 Gohan died at the end of last main chapter. The more I think about it, the more I believe Majin Bra will kill them all at the arena. Although Vegetto & Co. returning is a popular option, especially on the main page comment section, I don't believe this will happen. It's so obvious that you can be sure Salagir won't choose it. And after Ouv gave some insight how Salagir & the artists work on the storyboard (in the other thread about the U13 Special), I think excluding the "Heroes return to solve the problem" option is a way to subvert our expectations. Additionally, I cannot believe Vegetto will return and save the day, when Salagir made fun of this idea himself with the mini-comic where SSJ3 Vegetto knocks out Majin Bra with on punch. I do wonder if U18 Goten, U18 Bra, and Grand Supreme Kai will come into play. They are unexpected and unaccounted for players. Could they possibly work together end this. Maybe the “trash” fighters could come up with a plan to hold her in place for a second then cut her head off with a ki blade/disc. U18 Bra could try to make an appeal to the other Bra’s better nature and distract her long enough for Kai to ensnare her in psychic bind and Goten succeeds where Gohan fails cutting or stabbing her in a vital area.
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Post by iron leaf on May 29, 2020 5:45:39 GMT
I think it is almost impossible to figure out how the rebellion might end, because we try to figure out on the basis what we expect. I suspect Salagir will try to do something nobody expects. And that one single event will be finally the catalyst for Son Bra's character arc / development.
In general Son Bra is almost like Saiyan Saga Vegeta. Maybe she talks a lot about honour and pride, is super arrogant because of her origin, but when it comes to winning a fight with honour, she resorts to "dirty" means. So in Vegeta's case, for example, throwing dirt in the opponent's eyes to blind him...in Bra's case it would be in the middle of a fight to nibble beans from Senzu's sleeve to turn the tide or just to give the opponent a technical knockout by porting him into space without him being able to return. It may be handy in a fight, but it is definitely not an honorable way to win a fight, especially for such proud individuals as Vegeta and Son Bra. Their interpretation of pride I would like to remind.
Despite taking a comparison with Vegeta I wouldn't get too attached to it just because it has some parallels to Son Bra. And like in other threads you guys described Son Bra's character much better than I could.
One thing I completely believe, Son Bra is at the moment 100% under Babidi's control, and doesn't pull Majin Vegeta here. Even Dabura had more free will, she is actually a slave for this worm Babidi at the moment. And here we come to the real crux of the matter ... how did this rat manage to control Son Bra?
There is a lot of speculation to what extent Bra has evil in her heart. In the case of Piccolo Daimao, Kakarot & Nappa, Freeza & Coola, Babidi started a mental attack and after they were broken they immediately became loyal Majin slaves. Only Cell really resisted and successfully protected a part of his mind from Babidi. In addition, we have a somewhat large gap in our knowledge of when Babidi enslaved Son Bra and whether he could immediately control her or, as with Vegeta, there may have been complications. So it could be that at the end of the chapter in form of a flashback page the infobomb drops, which is the 'real' psychological reason why Son Bra became a Majin so easily.
Son Bra was clearly affected by the last events. First the one with Pan/Zangya, then she was beaten up by Coldyu, wins anyway, but also loses...her body. Daddy Dearest has to intervene again, which all in all was an extreme humiliation for her. Then of course there were the screams of Hatchiyack again, they didn't leave her untouched either (This is of course Fanfic details only atm, but I believe if we get a flashback to Son Bra and how she was majined by Babidi, I suspest we will get confirmation that Hatchiyack's screaming woke her up). It was just the perfect moment for Babidi, Son Bra's psyche was unstable and her ego cracked. But what exactly did he promise her in return to become a slave?
Now that Son Pan mentioned the possibility for unexpected and unaccounted characters to intervene here, I looked at my Body Count Chart again. Who's alive in the arena right now? By this I mean everyone, no matter how insignificant they may seem to the plot.
Mary Sue, XXI, I'K'L, Babidi, Zen Buu, Dai Kaioshin, Son Goten, Bra, Elder Kaioshin, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Videl, Raditz; Son Bra vs. Son Gohan, Majin Buu, Tiny Cell;
Mary Sue? Never. Never in a lifetime will she be able to play a significant role. Of course she had a page dedicated to her a few chapters ago. This is absolutely ridiculous though. Ridiculous, I say! .... But what if? What if her time travel ability does come into play? I don't know about that. I don't know if anyone could be satisfied with Mary Sue directing the main plot in the most crucial moment.
XXI? That is quite possible. He said something about two hours in his apartment just as Gohan ripped Nappa to pieces. Only a few minutes have passed since then. But it doesn't mean XXI was talking about not getting involved at all. Mysterious entity. I would not complain if he interfered. In fact, I picked him in this poll. Of all the characters, I hope that XXI will interfere. To finally see more of his abilities, that interests me.
I'K'L? Possible. I can always trust Salagir to deny whether I'K'L gets any relevance in the comic, only to finally drop the character at the right moment and integrate them into the story. But in I'K'L's case the significance must be very stark. It would seem ridiculous if the pregnant woman and the unborn child finally become relevant, only to dump them again after a few pages. Everyone complains about Hatchiyack's super short performance, but with Raichi's creation, his performance was actually unexpected. I'K'L was literally already mentioned in the first chapter. When he finally shows up, it has to land right. My guess is no to I'K'L.
Zen Buu? Yes, great speculation. He will take care of Babidi. His personal hostage now. I'm sure he'll do something, but I suspect he won't be the crux point in this situation.
Dai Kaioshin? Yes, I think he'll do something. I'm sure he will. Of course it's a running gag now, how he doesn't do anything, but it's understandable. In connection with Zen Buu, he doesn't want to show his abilities. As if he's just standing there, just because Zen Buu is present. He expects Buu to intervene, but Buu wants to see if the greatest of the gods can do something. I am curious to see what motivated him to believe that trusting in Zen Buu was the right decision.
Son Goten? Good actions on his part so far and the Majin Arc has given him the long awaited Screen time. But what should he do. He looked almost unconscious when Gohan asked for a senzu bean. He might meet Bra. .... Wait. Ginyu is dead. Ginyu... is ... dead. He's not in Son Goten. We can only hope Salagir did not let that possibility open.
Bra? I can't imagine what she could do to make something huge happen to Majn Bra. A psychological shock when both Bras meet? Huh, possible, but why would it finally work on Bra, but not before? No, not likely. But she might run into Goten and they'll try something. But this doesn't sound like something epic. Not epic enough to dedicate it as the turning point for the rebellion.
Team U9 & Raditz? Elder Kaioshin is the only one who I think could contribute something interesting to the story. Sure, Tenshinhan has Mafuba, but I don't think that might be really the case to help against Majin Bra. And Raditz needs a lot more until the ritual is over. When Majin Cell Jr attacked U9, they were still at the standing & dancing in a circle part. They still need the sitting part. Unless the Elder Kaioshin interrupts that now. Not likely.
(It better not turn out that U9 Bulma appears and is somehow involved in the plot. Then I eat a broom )
No matter what will come. I believe it has to happen within this chapter. The Majin Bra section of the Majin Arc kinda seem to follow a specific 3 part structure.
1. The antagonistic character appears - confrontation with the protagonistic characters. The chapter results in the villain having the apparent disadvantage. 2. The antagonist manages to overcome the protagonists - the heroes efforts seems futile. The chapter results in the villain winning while the heroes are losing hope to win. 3. Majin Bra appears victorious - Her downfall cause of hubris.
I am not one of those people complaining about the dragged on fight, but according to the structure I theorise is in place, any redirection of the plot has to happen in this chapter, imo. And obviously it has to have connections with Bra's character in any way.
Page 1603 has kept me very busy in the last days. I am firmly convinced that the end of this fight against Majin Bra will have a conclusion to this dialogue. I believe there is a much deeper meaning behind these lines.
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Post by Ashanark on Jun 21, 2020 18:05:20 GMT
Poll is locked, final results are in! And...
I would say the ultimate result is a mix of "Bra wins and comes to her senses" and "Bra is talked out of it"... coincidentally, the two options voted least likely to happen in this poll. Bra did defeat every single fighter on the field (and then some), but was then talked out of it by a non-combatant.
What are your thoughts on this ending and the rebellion as a whole?
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Post by Axalon on Jun 21, 2020 18:22:16 GMT
Poll is locked, final results are in! And... I would say the ultimate result is a mix of "Bra wins and comes to her senses" and "Bra is talked out of it"... coincidentally, the two options voted least likely to happen in this poll. Bra did defeat every single fighter on the field (and then some), but was then talked out of it by a non-combatant. What are your thoughts on this ending and the rebellion as a whole? I wasn't a fan. I actually checked out of DBM for a while (when Cell lost to Gohan) and came back some months later and it was still ongoing. For all the action I found it incredibly ho-hum. Essentially, it was a bunch of characters I didn't care about (if they weren't Cell or Piccolo I didn't care) just murdering each other while other characters I was interested such as Goku, Vegeta, Gast, etc were all standing around not doing anything. Compounding that the few characters I did actually care about that were directly involved all got summarily executed, so my interest diminished even further. I had been hoping for Yamcha to reveal himself and lay the epic smackdown on Bra as foretold in the vision but this didn't happen at all so I can only conclude he's going to say this to Vegito or XXI at this point. Really the only thing left to find out come November is if Bra actually willpowered her way out of the spell or if U4 Buu killed Babadi at the most convenient timing and this is why the spell got broken. EDIT: The fact that her breaking the spell through sheer willpower/rage is even a possibility is also somewhat infuriating.
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Post by Super Saiyan PINK Goku Black on Jun 21, 2020 18:22:46 GMT
Poll is locked, final results are in! And... I would say the ultimate result is a mix of "Bra wins and comes to her senses" and "Bra is talked out of it"... coincidentally, the two options voted least likely to happen in this poll. Bra did defeat every single fighter on the field (and then some), but was then talked out of it by a non-combatant. What are your thoughts on this ending and the rebellion as a whole? Started off strong, stayed strong, peaked in the first chapter with Bra, when quickly tumbled down and concluded literally shitting its pants just before the finish line.Literally the worst case scenario for me. The best case was her being beaten( non-lethally, mind you - just mangled to the point of being unable to fight), with the second best being her simply killing everyone, and then defaulting back to the first option but with exiles/Vegito murking her. Her being talked out of it is nonsensical, and reeks of preferential treatment to Salagir's Golden Child(we can't have her lose, now can we?). Her being the third person ever breaking out of the spell is just further Bra-wank. At this point, i fear this was just an extensive detour intended to temporarily silence critics and toss some sweet, sweet SSj2 her way while at it. Pattern recognition doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence either, she'll likely get out with a slap on her wrist. See pic related, for what i expect now.
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Post by Son Pan on Jun 21, 2020 22:59:47 GMT
Poll is locked, final results are in! And... I would say the ultimate result is a mix of "Bra wins and comes to her senses" and "Bra is talked out of it"... coincidentally, the two options voted least likely to happen in this poll. Bra did defeat every single fighter on the field (and then some), but was then talked out of it by a non-combatant. What are your thoughts on this ending and the rebellion as a whole? This arc on a whole for me is only decent. I don't think this arc was terrible, but it is a far cry from the greatness it could have been. There are enough good moments for me that I loved and would hate to see gone if this arc didn't happen. At the same time I acknowledge this arc had problems and made questionable choices on the whole. I want to start this off by saying I really did enjoy most of this revolt and liked seeing other characters get time to shine. This arc turned me around on U19 on a whole. They felt underutilized in the comic as a whole and I can tell this universe wasn't fully thought up by the conception of the comic and only truly formed last few years of the comic as the story progressed. I loved to see them in action and helping the others. Piccolo and Gohan got to see action for the first time, since they weren't participants in the tournament. I even enjoyed Babidi as the villain. I felt this was a decent plan on his part.
For Bra this tougher because I really don't know where the character is going from here. Friday's page made me hopeful and won back a lot of my good faith. Having U18 Bra call out U16 Bra and issue her the challenge to be better could and should be used more than just breaking out the Majin spell. I hope that is used for her character going forward. Overall I think the choreography of the final battle could have been a lot better. I re-read the last three chapters before this one in one sit-in and things felt more natural to me in places and others I felt could have been improved. For example Cell's ploys seemed way more effective reading them one page at a time than they do when I read the whole chapter in one sit in. When I re-read them it came off as more inconveniences to Bra at best and that she gave back far more than she got back. I honestly preferred Cell lost here and all his plans failed can be traced back to his arrogance. On the other hand some things were down right weird. I don't really think Bra needed to eat as many senzu beans as she did. I think the first one to restore her arm made sense. I don't think we needed it when she got hit by Gohan's Super Kamehamaha. I think that threw the power scale out of wack at times. More fighters attacking her at once would have been better or better yet Bra being shown to be so fast that keeping the group separated at times would have made more sense. The Grand Supreme Kai was used poorly overall. I felt like if he had tried to restrain Bra telepathically, had that failed, and then see him try to appeal to her better nature in the second chapter would have had the same result from what we got in the comic. As it was it feels like Grand was made useless overall, which is sad because the other Supreme Kais really tried their hardest and did great during the revolt.
U18 Bra talking U16 Bra down for me was a decent way to end it. However, I think that would have gone over better if the three chapters had set that up better. I think writers get it into their head that if the audience can guess what will happen in the story that means they have failed or its bad story. That is not the case. I think even if people guess right what will happen that the deciding factor for if the development was good or not will be how well it is used. I think Majin Bra not showing any positive qualities or conflict that wasn't used because Salagir was afraid people would guess right at how this would end. I think that is a mistake because even if that had been guessed if the setup was used well enough we could have arguably seen more positives traits Bra had (love for her family) be explored more and actually make people like her more. It would have made the ending feel more earned. Having Majin Bra step down and realize all the bad things she did still would have worked on its own or even better if he didn't have Bra break the spell outright, which is just going to feel forced or people think is more shilling toward the character.
Overall it was a decent arc for me. I can still reread these chapters and enjoy them. It is just with a few tweaks this arc could have seen massive improvements and have had more people like it more at very least.
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Post by kojak on Jun 21, 2020 23:58:52 GMT
I had been hoping for Yamcha to reveal himself and lay the epic smackdown on Bra as foretold in the vision but this didn't happen at all so I can only conclude he's going to say this to Vegito or XXI at this point. I'm something like 99% certain he's going to say it to XXI. From what we've seen, it doesn't look like XXI can use magic on machines, seeing as he conjured up 18's remote to deactivate her to win. Yamcha himself is 17 in U9, so I'm guessing that XXI will lay waste to everyone, but be unable to defeat Yamcha due to his mechanical composition.
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