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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 4:32:11 GMT
All I can say is that it's quite obvious the animators want to get rid of the most people the fastest possible. These are the DQ ones: ... U3: Narirama and Nigrisshi (LMAO, what a failure they were, even after their hype scene pre-tournament. Hope the rest of the mechas aren't that weak) FML I just remembered that Nigrisshi is the strongest guy U3 had and he was unceremoniously kicked out by Cabba of all people.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 23, 2017 4:38:47 GMT
All I can say is that it's quite obvious the animators want to get rid of the most people the fastest possible. These are the DQ ones: ... U3: Narirama and Nigrisshi (LMAO, what a failure they were, even after their hype scene pre-tournament. Hope the rest of the mechas aren't that weak) FML I just remembered that Nigrisshi is the strongest guy U3 had and he was unceremoniously kicked out by Cabba of all people. Well... we are not sure if he's the strongest. Sure he was mentioned as that, but then again he also said "The rest of the team is currently being modified for the tournament of power". It's possible some of them are actually stronger/more helpful than him AFTER modification. Still... this dude got an ending far worse than that of Raichi. Especially considering there were actually scenes dedicated to him before the tournament... this does not bode well. Narirama was just there to make Basil look bad-ass (I guess the fan favorite of U9) one last time before dying.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 5:05:07 GMT
FML I just remembered that Nigrisshi is the strongest guy U3 had and he was unceremoniously kicked out by Cabba of all people. Wasn't that Hit who knocked off the robot who was hyped up by the U3 Kai?That was Hit who knocked of Narirama, but Nigrisshi (who Cabba defeated) was explicitly stated to be the strongest of the U3 team. Though as Conqueror Geng said the others were all pre-upgrade so they might be more useful or one might've been modified to become more powerful during that time. But until otherwise noted the strongest U3 warrior has been knocked out of the ring.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 5:27:14 GMT
So I found this handy little graphic, updated as of this latest episode. Shows who's been eliminated, by who, who's eliminated the most and who is left.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 23, 2017 5:32:31 GMT
The Yadrat hasn't been eliminated though. He just saw he was outnumbered and fucked off somewhere else.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 5:47:52 GMT
The Yadrat hasn't been eliminated though. He just saw he was outnumbered and fucked off somewhere else. I think he has. The same sound effect that played when Krillin was knocked out by Frost was used after Caulifla kicked him, as opposed to the sound of his IT.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 5:59:30 GMT
That was Hit who knocked of Narirama, but Nigrisshi (who Cabba defeated) was explicitly stated to be the strongest of the U3 team. Though as Conqueror Geng said the others were all pre-upgrade so they might be more useful or one might've been modified to become more powerful during that time. But until otherwise noted the strongest U3 warrior has been knocked out of the ring. Ah alright. Thought the one with the cannon was the one the Universe 3 Kai was talking about in that one episode he was previewed in. Ya boi's memory is shitty.
Honestly that's true, but I feel like the Kai wouldn't have mentioned how powerful Nigrisshi was if he intended to modify everyone else that much, know what I mean? I doubt it was anything significant.
Edit: I think my problem was I mistook the Kai saying he was essentially his fail-safe as "He's the most powerful"Yeah, Narirama was designed specifically so he wouldn't fall off the ring. He had big claws so he could dig in, giant suction cups if those were broken off, etc. Hit just didn't care (in a nice touch you could see he'd broken the suction cups too) and flicked him off. I always took it that he was designed so that even if he were disabled he'd technically still be "in the ring" or something. I guess hoping someone like Hit wouldn't come along and knock him off anyway.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 23, 2017 6:27:02 GMT
The Yadrat hasn't been eliminated though. He just saw he was outnumbered and fucked off somewhere else. I think he has. The same sound effect that played when Krillin was knocked out by Frost was used after Caulifla kicked him, as opposed to the sound of his IT. He disappeared mid-air without even falling one inch as opposed to falling into the void like everyone else did. Someone who has IT and is smart enough can't be DQ just so casually. We'll see next episodes but I don't think he's done. Goku would have felt sadder/angrier if this was the case. They interrupted him mid fight. They were not close to the edge I think.
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Post by Drakthul on Jul 23, 2017 7:49:43 GMT
I'm genuinely interested if they're going to add Broly to the show at some point. I actually dislike Broly honestly, but given what they just did with Kale? It's honestly fascinating.
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Post by Azoth on Jul 23, 2017 8:02:11 GMT
Only difference between Kale and Broly is the maniacal laughter.
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Post by Drakthul on Jul 23, 2017 8:10:06 GMT
Only difference between Kale and Broly is the maniacal laughter. I've always thought it'd be a good idea to canonize a few of the movie villains honestly. Cooler and Broly are the most popular, and the easiest to canonize. With Frieza coming back again however, I doubt they'll ever bring him in, which is tragic, as he's probably my favourite Dragon Ball character. But with Kale in the show, I'm genuinely intrigued if they're going to bring Broly into the equation at some point, especially given the power boost she's received, from just having a pulse basically. It was really well done however.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 23, 2017 8:31:04 GMT
Bojack and Tapion would in fact be the easiest ones to canonize. Those are only ones that do not present any timeline contradiction at all, which is weird for DBZ movies.
Only minor contradiction (even if it can be said to be so) is Trunks' hairstyle on Bojack's movie.
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Post by Drakthul on Jul 23, 2017 8:34:12 GMT
I meant easiest to canonize via introduction to the series through their own arcs.
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Post by Beerus the Wondercat on Jul 23, 2017 13:45:20 GMT
Reminder: Dragon Ball Super is a kid’s show that doesn’t try to be deep or complex with actual character motivations or consistent world-building. However, it’s still within our right to critique and talk about aspects we consider bad or impractical. Our opinions are just that, and if you enjoy the show, well for you. It’s not like my opinion is going to negatively affect you. Just a little notice before full-rant mode is engaged. *Sigh* Guys. This episode for me was ROUGH. I was actually debating about this possibly being WORSE than ROF at this point. I’m being serious, at least ROF didn’t hype up my expectations and I knew what I was getting on the tin. Before I get into the nitty gritty, I’ll list 3 aspects I did like: 1) Goku Vs Caulifa was actually well-animated and choreographed. 2) Kale’s actual LSSJ was also well-animated and had fun throwbacks. 3) Hit is just badass. Now that’s out the way. Let me rank my enjoyment of the previous arcs to paint you a better picture, and my personal thoughts of each one: BOGS: fun and interesting flick that introduces characters we like and is a good start to the series. ROF: Depending on what version you watch; well-animated and choreographed that offers good-looking substance rather than an interesting narrative that borders on fanfiction. Super’s variant, worse arc of any DB media by FAR. U6: Found Cabba and Frost to be boring and not interesting. Magetta and Botamo were fun but were more fodder than actual interesting fighters. Hit is one of two things that DBS has introduced that is good. He has unique powers, cool occupation and is an actual serious threat. Black Arc: Well-animated and has an ACTUAL villain for the heroes to face. Zamasu is the other aspect along with Hit that DBS introduces that is good. Black’s just an extension of Zamasu so I’ll also count any cool thing he did as also contributing to his character. Good arc that loses steam towards the end with retcons, plot-points that go nowhere, and a pretty bad ending. With that concluded, let me give you my full-opinion on not just this episode BUT the TOP so far. Tournament of Power? More like Tournament of SOUR….GRAPES. Bad pun aside, this arc really is incredibly underwhelming. I must be watching a different show to everyone else on Youtube, because I haven’t been impressed aside from Krillin doing actual work before being side-lined which highlights this arc’s main problem: over-hyping. We’ve had such as MASSIVE build-up to the tournament with Goku gathering the team and all the foreshadowing such as Krillin’s hidden potential, his combo attacks with 18, Gohan and Piccolo’s team-attacks, Roshi’s training and Buu sliming down. However, NON of that has come into play. Krillin’s potential subplot when nowhere when bootleg Frieza K.O’d him in the most unsatisfying way possible. I would much prefer him taking the blow for 18, realising she would go MUCH further in the tournament that he could. Would actually highlight Krillin core aspect in Z more, stepping up to the plate no matter how out-matched he is. But like I said earlier, consistent character development isn’t included in DBS because kids can’t comprehend character arcs or organic storytelling that doesn’t involve different coloured hair. That’s why we have back-tingles” instead of emotional-charged triggers or anything traumatic to make the transformation worth a damn. To further illustrate my point, every fighter from whatever universe that has been hyped up, or foreshadowed that they were play a bigger part in the tournament as a power player has been nothing short of disappointing. Seriously? Name one fighter that has actually capsulized on their hyping apart from maybe Kale, but we’ll fucking get to that train-wreck in due time and Jiren. But speaking of Jiren, I’m the only one in this community to find Jiren uninteresting? I’ll admit he’s definitely powerful, but his personality and motivations are non-existent. He’s just the silent, reserved fighter that lets the lower-fighters battle before he steps in to let the watcher know “oh, it’s about to net serious!” But guess what Jiren? We already had that with Hit who did that entire shtick first AND better. He had interesting combat mechanics and powers to help differ from his generic shounen tough guy persona. Then we saw him after tournament doing things like his job, fighting Goku and having moments of actual enjoyment. Helped shed some light on his character and his philosophy. Jiren should be the Batman of his group. A no-nonsense intimidating dude who takes charge and formulates plans. I hope the aspect of him actually being blind is true, because it makes his non-reactive expressions mean a damn instead of “oooh, isn’t he sooo cool!” I don’t know. Maybe I’m expecting TOO much from a show that has SSJ2 unlocked through back-itching when Goku and Vegeta needed 7 years of harsh training plus a possible Majin power-up to achieve it. That’s right, let’s talk Caulifa and Kale. These two are single-handily the worst fighters in this tournament, not from power-wise but as plot-devices and character pandering. OH NO! We cannot write female characters outside house-wives so let’s just do the OPPOSITE and have every power-up under the sun APART from God transformations (THANK CHRIST, IF SHE WENT SSJB I WOULD HAVE HAD A STROKE) and hand it to her on a platter. I like female characters. I don’t mind them being in an active-role outside typical love interest or damsel in distress. However, I like characters like Ripley because they’re tough because THEY HAVE TO BE. They step up to the plate and go through risks, failures and grow from the experience. Caulifa doesn’t earn her powers and she’s just a shallow individual that I don’t see why Kale idolises her so much when she even turns her back on her after her whole “believe in yourself” speech that turned out to be bullshit. The sheer fact that Goku states she could go SSJ3 possibly made my blood boil, my skin grow pail and my teeth chatter into I had a under bite like fucking Leafy. I refuse to believe some punk has more potential and work ethic than Goku, a man who has dedicated his ENTIRE life in fighting and improving though TONS of masters, scenarios and situations. If she does go anything higher than SSJ2 at this point, it will just further illustrate how this series is just a shallow attempt to ride fans nostalgia rather than offer anything of real substance and is an INSULT to people who put actual effort into making sequels to their series. That kids and idiots will lap this tripe up and claim its good storytelling or that it’s so KEWL is so baffling, I’m starting to think that all the Toei employees are actually Youtuber commenters in-disguise. She even goes USSJ and has the whole power/speed argument from when trunks did it. But the thing there is, Trunks actually USES the form to its max efficiently and looks like Cell is having trouble. That’s what solicits his despair when the actual form’s problems come into play because we’ve been subconsciously shown them throughout the fight. Here in DBS, it’s just pointless as it barely lasted a second and served only to fuel SSJ2’s pointless introduction. Now….Kale. Man oh man. I don’t get how some of you are saying “Well, at least it’s better than Broly!” Which is, and feel free to disagree with me, BULLSHIT. Broly has the advantage of him being a vindictive evil psychopath whose backstory whatever you chalk that up to child-hood trauma or just bad writing is just a platform for his rampages. Its fun watching Broly because he doesn’t have any exterior motive beyond complete mayhem and suffering of everything around him. He has the docile and unnerving persona while in base to illustrate the complete juxtaposition of his SSJ states. It’s good decent build-up to him going 180 and completely losing it. But the aspect of Broly which is most fun isn’t the mindless berserker, it’s the laughing psychopath enjoying using your spleen as a trampoline. That’s another aspect that is a core problem of DBS problems despite it being Broly’s BREAD AND DAMN BUTTER. It’s the brutality. Sure, Kale‘s fight with Goku looks good but we don’t get a real feel for Goku’s life or the fight in general because he barely has a scratch on him. In the Broly films, you saw him MESS up EVERYONE in the ultimate curbstomp to end all curbstomps. Crushing people into stone pillars with just his bare-hand, stomping Goku into the earth, tackling Trunks and Picciolo into buildings and booting them a-way while he crushes Gohan. You got the real-sense that this dude was just devastatingly powerful. Especially when he tanks the Kamehameha and punches a worn-down Goku. We don’t see the punch but we certainly feel the Impact with all the glass on the skyscraper shattering at once. It’s a cool visual metaphor to how HARD Broly just clocked Goku. It’s more unsettling that we don’t see the impact and the implied effects. Kale’s just embarrassing in both character and substance. She isn’t the cool juggernaut of chaos that Broly was, and she’s not an interesting character with a unique dynamic. She’s just some plot-device who screams with her Hentai-sounding ass because Caulifa is interacting with another person. If anything, she should be ANGRY at HER, not Goku. She turned her back on her, her mentor and friend (and possible slampiece judging by the ridiculous amount of sexual tension and hints). Why did she get angry at Goku? Even more fan-service throwbacks as she activates Broly.exe for more beatdowns and…… …….. GOKU. WOULD. YOU. STOP. USING. SSJB. FOR. EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT. PLEASE.This form has gone beyond a joke to just embarrassing meme at this point. It’s the more jobbing, useless, ineffective, weak plot-device every conceived in Dragon ball. I don’t want to hear the excuses of Goku having perfect ki control despite having STAMINA ISSUES AND IMCOMPLETE POWER OUTSET. I don’t want to hear “Well actually, Goku doesn’t have a scratch on him from Kale’s attack!” OH COURSE HE FUCKING DOESN’T! THIS DBS. Gone are the days of Freiza impaling people or decapitation kills. THIS SHOW BARELY HAS ANY BLOOD SO OF COURSE HE’S NOT GETTING A SCRATCH! Oh jesus, why do I keep watching this train-wreck at this point? Can’t wait for next week’s episode DBS EPISODE 101: AKA MORE USELESS FODDER GETS TAKEN OUT BECAUSE WE NEED PADDING GOD-DAMN IT.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 15:13:31 GMT
But speaking of Jiren, I’m the only one in this community to find Jiren uninteresting? I’ll admit he’s definitely powerful, but his personality and motivations are non-existent. He’s just the silent, reserved fighter that lets the lower-fighters battle before he steps in to let the watcher know “oh, it’s about to net serious!” But guess what Jiren? We already had that with Hit who did that entire shtick first AND better. He had interesting combat mechanics and powers to help differ from his generic shounen tough guy persona. Then we saw him after tournament doing things like his job, fighting Goku and having moments of actual enjoyment. Helped shed some light on his character and his philosophy. Jiren should be the Batman of his group. A no-nonsense intimidating dude who takes charge and formulates plans. I hope the aspect of him actually being blind is true, because it makes his non-reactive expressions mean a damn instead of “oooh, isn’t he sooo cool!” To a point, I agree. I'm waiting for Jiren to get active before really passing judgment on him, but for the moment he's not doing all that much. What you say about him being basically Hit is mostly spot-on, but until he does more than fire off a single blast and not dodge some tiles flying at him I can afford to wait. Hit's had more development on him, so we can appreciate his coolness now as opposed to when he was the generic purple guy sitting around who looked cool. Jiren's still about the mystery, so until they finally get around to having him do something that takes longer than 5 seconds it's hard to say what he can really offer to the story aside from being the generic gray guy who stands around and intimidates people. Worse still is that Hit's in the tournament, so he's off doing cool Hit things while Jiren's mostly done nothing so far, making Hit a tough act to follow. Eventually things'll heat up though. To be fair, Cell never looked like he was in trouble (unless we're talking about the DBZ anime). Both Trunks and Caulifla briefly looked like clowns when using the form against a more nimble opponent, and neither lasted long at all. That said it was definitely handled better with Trunks, who had poor training and was working off of just raw potential, as opposed to Caulifla who is supposed to be some kind of prodigy, or so I'm told by people who've tried justifying her BS powerups. I wouldn't say there's no chance for that. Goku, Vegeta and Zamasu were all impaled at some point as recently as the last story arc, and Zamasu ended up getting sliced completely in half. Frieza murdered Piccolo with a Death Beam, and also made Gohan do his best attempt at imitating swiss cheese. Hell, just this arc alone Frieza shredded that bat guy's wing and tortured him, and not too long before that went on a mass killing spree by either impaling them with ki or going Kenshiro on them and exploding their heads via pressure points. None of this was particularly bloody, no, but this type of combat does still happen in DBS.
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Post by Ashanark on Jul 23, 2017 16:37:13 GMT
Now, I haven't been watching the ToP, since it's a rather large time commitment that I'm not sure will be worth the investment, so I'm waiting for it to be mostly over so I can watch the good parts. But I'm reading all your comments thoroughly to get your thoughts. Ironically TFS's Broly Abridged comes off as a bit of an Unintentional Period Piece, specifically of the DBZ fandom's opinions on Broly, since almost immediately after it was released we got the first screenshot of Kale. Now Broly will forever be connected with Kale, meaning TFS' jabs at the fandom and Broly in general are reflective of 25-years of opinion that are now out-of-date. Beerus the Wondercat I, too, find Jiren unexciting, but I also found Hit unexciting until I saw the filler episode where we actually see him in action. "Big, strong, silent, menacing dude" doesn't have much to offer. Two months from now it'll be interesting to look back and see what our guesses were about him. I really don't have any confidence that anything we see in any episode of Super will ever be consistent. Or that anything will be consistent. The writers seem to take everything on an episode-by-episode basis, bending all continuity to the needs of the episode. SSB has perfect ki control, except when it doesn't. Gohan wants to train, except when he doesn't, except when he does. Power means nothing and teamwork is the key, except when it's not. Why should I be impressed with Kale tanking a SSB-Kamehameha when both 17 and Krillin did so in earlier episodes? There are no hard facts, no solid foundation, nothing to give me confidence that there will be a satisfying conclusion to any character's arc. The fact is, Super has made everything meaningless. We cannot trust what we see to make predictions; the writers consistently make promises they ignore. Super is like a Schrodinger's Cat: we put the anticipation in the box, and there's no way of knowing if that anticipation will pay off or not until it's happened. In most cases, it hasn't. More and more I see Zeno as a veiled metaphor for the Dragon Ball fanbase: a child that's happy as long as he's seeing explosions, and doesn't ask for anything else. I'm really curious to see how Super will be viewed in five or ten years. Right now, it's new and hyped up, so many people either love or hate it indiscriminately, simply because it's new. (Hating something just because it's new is not valid, by the way. You'd better be able to back up why you don't like something.) But after the series ends and the fandom kicks into deep analysis mode...well, will its legacy be bad as GT's? Better? Super's a lot bigger, bringing a lot more to the table, but it's also caused more damage to the continuity, and on the whole it's pretty crappy writing. Unlike GT, it's endeavored to expand the cast, focus on more people...but there's been almost no payoff. How long and how well will people defend Super as a valid sequel in the years to come, as its lists of goofs, gaffs, and misfires mounts up? I'd love to know more about the writing process for Super, because surely there was planning and revision behind each arc and every episode. Who voted for Buu in the ToP, and who voted Frieza should replace him? Who came up with Kale? When the Potara was retconned, were there objections? Did nobody have a problem with Caulifla getting SS1 and SS2 in the same day, and especially through back tingles? Who decided Krillin should be eliminated first, and not in a way that had anything to do with 18? There are so many questions I'd love to ask. Sorry to be a spoil-sport, everybody. I was happy with BoG and RoF as fun "after-stories," but I've never really been happy with the idea of Super being an "official" sequel. I'm not gonna lie, I'm hoping it goes the way of GT and ends up as something we can safely ignore in Dragon Ball discussions if we'd like. Like a fun alternate-continuity of Dragon Ball. EDIT: I suppose Super angers me because there's a lot of fanfics out there, DBM included, that've put their whole heart and soul into coming up with a good story and producing it, almost entirely alone, with no budget and no hope of ever getting paid. (For "the love of the craft.") Super comes along years later, does many of the same concepts in a shoddy way, and gets all the credit simply because it's "official." I bristle because it seems unfair. For all of Bra's faults, I'd much rather she be considered the "first" female Super Saiyan than freaking Caulifla.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 17:55:34 GMT
Now, I haven't been watching the ToP, since it's a rather large time commitment that I'm not sure will be worth the investment, so I'm waiting for it to be mostly over so I can watch the good parts. But I'm reading all your comments thoroughly to get your thoughts. Ironically TFS's Broly Abridged comes off as a bit of an Unintentional Period Piece, specifically of the DBZ fandom's opinions on Broly, since almost immediately after it was released we got the first screenshot of Kale. Now Broly will forever be connected with Kale, meaning TFS' jabs at the fandom and Broly in general are reflective of 25-years of opinion that are now out-of-date.I mean, that was going to happen anyway, TFS or not. Plus I don't think the criticisms are really out-of-date at all. Most of the Broly criticisms also apply to Kale, given how much of a direct rip-off she is of Broly. What few (and I do mean few) things she edges out as better than Broly in, Broly makes up for by being better in other areas. - Kale has a better motivation to get angry, if only barely. - Kale's more powerful, but Broly is 3x as intimidating because his wrath is that of a pure psychopath, whereas Kale's wrath could at best be described as that of a jealous lover: Broly: "You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims! "
Kale: "SON GOKU." I get that it's referencing Broly always screaming KAKAROT, but that's my point. Broly actually has other lines besides yelling Kakarot and Power Overflowing. Kale's basically a walking Broly meme generator. - Vegeta was so terrified by Broly that he spent most of the fight on his knees in sheer terror. Never before or since has someone rattled Vegeta this badly (except Beerus). With Kale he's just watching from a distance and doesn't seem scared at all. - Goku got tossed around a bit, but was basically fine after getting up from the rubble. No struggle or real pain like with Broly. - Broly wouldn't have allowed himself to get slapped around by a couple of losers like Kale did, crying for help. He would've gone SS1 at the very least to fight them off, assuming he didn't go all Legendary in the first place. - Finally, Kale is ultimately just a quick cash-grab on Broly's popularity. Half her lines are just "HEY GUYZ, REMEMBER THAT COOL THING BROLY DID/SAID. HERE IT IS AGAIN." That actually went on longer than I intended, haha. TL;DR - Kale's a poor rip-off of the original. Ugh. I'd rather ignore both and just have Pan become the first female Super Saiyan. EoZ Pan, not that GT abomination.
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Post by Ashanark on Jul 23, 2017 18:26:28 GMT
Now, I haven't been watching the ToP, since it's a rather large time commitment that I'm not sure will be worth the investment, so I'm waiting for it to be mostly over so I can watch the good parts. But I'm reading all your comments thoroughly to get your thoughts. Ironically TFS's Broly Abridged comes off as a bit of an Unintentional Period Piece, specifically of the DBZ fandom's opinions on Broly, since almost immediately after it was released we got the first screenshot of Kale. Now Broly will forever be connected with Kale, meaning TFS' jabs at the fandom and Broly in general are reflective of 25-years of opinion that are now out-of-date.I mean, that was going to happen anyway, TFS or not. Plus I don't think the criticisms are really out-of-date at all. Most of the Broly criticisms also apply to Kale, given how much of a direct rip-off she is of Broly. What few (and I do mean few) things she edges out as better than Broly in, Broly makes up for by being better in other areas. - Kale has a better motivation to get angry, if only barely. - Kale's more powerful, but Broly is 3x as intimidating because his wrath is that of a pure psychopath, whereas Kale's wrath could at best be described as that of a jealous lover: Broly: "You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims! "
Kale: "SON GOKU." I get that it's referencing Broly always screaming KAKAROT, but that's my point. Broly actually has other lines besides yelling Kakarot and Power Overflowing. Kale's basically a walking Broly meme generator. - Vegeta was so terrified by Broly that he spent most of the fight on his knees in sheer terror. Never before or since has someone rattled Vegeta this badly (except Beerus). With Kale he's just watching from a distance and doesn't seem scared at all. - Goku got tossed around a bit, but was basically fine after getting up from the rubble. No struggle or real pain like with Broly. - Broly wouldn't have allowed himself to get slapped around by a couple of losers like Kale did, crying for help. He would've gone SS1 at the very least to fight them off, assuming he didn't go all Legendary in the first place. - Finally, Kale is ultimately just a quick cash-grab on Broly's popularity. Half her lines are just "HEY GUYZ, REMEMBER THAT COOL THING BROLY DID/SAID. HERE IT IS AGAIN." That actually went on longer than I intended, haha. TL;DR - Kale's a poor rip-off of the original. What I meant was that from now on, every time you watch one of Broly's fights on YouTube, see a picture of Broly on a fansite, or read about Broly in a fanfic, there will now always be stupid comments about "Hur hur, Broly's a woman now" and "hur hur, Broly's just going crazy because he's jealous for attention" and "Hur hur, better get Jiren." The original memes about Broly haven't changed, since as you pointed out, Kale embodies all of them. It's just that, like you'll never be able to watch "Vegito vs. Super Buu" on YouTube without idiots saying "lol, what's Goku talking about, Potara fusion isn't permanent," a large part of the Broly fandom will now permanently include Kale. TFS's Broly Abridged was trying to include every single Broly trope out there, but in coming years people might look back at Broly Abridged and say, "Why didn't they mention Kale?" I agree, Kale is a poor ripoff. Her design has none of Broly's brilliant simplicity, and her motivations/mindset aren't anywhere near as intimidating. A great example of how it's harder to copy something successfully than people might think. I meant I'd rather have Bra over Caulifla. As far as DBM's concerned, Pan was the first "onscreen" female Super Saiyan, so that distinction goes to her On the whole, I think DBM's done pretty well with Pan, don't you? She can't stay an adorable 4-year old forever.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 23, 2017 18:29:13 GMT
I mean, that was going to happen anyway, TFS or not. Plus I don't think the criticisms are really out-of-date at all. Most of the Broly criticisms also apply to Kale, given how much of a direct rip-off she is of Broly. What few (and I do mean few) things she edges out as better than Broly in, Broly makes up for by being better in other areas. - Kale has a better motivation to get angry, if only barely. - Kale's more powerful, but Broly is 3x as intimidating because his wrath is that of a pure psychopath, whereas Kale's wrath could at best be described as that of a jealous lover: Broly: "You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims! "
Kale: "SON GOKU." I get that it's referencing Broly always screaming KAKAROT, but that's my point. Broly actually has other lines besides yelling Kakarot and Power Overflowing. Kale's basically a walking Broly meme generator. - Vegeta was so terrified by Broly that he spent most of the fight on his knees in sheer terror. Never before or since has someone rattled Vegeta this badly (except Beerus). With Kale he's just watching from a distance and doesn't seem scared at all. - Goku got tossed around a bit, but was basically fine after getting up from the rubble. No struggle or real pain like with Broly. - Broly wouldn't have allowed himself to get slapped around by a couple of losers like Kale did, crying for help. He would've gone SS1 at the very least to fight them off, assuming he didn't go all Legendary in the first place. - Finally, Kale is ultimately just a quick cash-grab on Broly's popularity. Half her lines are just "HEY GUYZ, REMEMBER THAT COOL THING BROLY DID/SAID. HERE IT IS AGAIN." That actually went on longer than I intended, haha. TL;DR - Kale's a poor rip-off of the original. What I meant was that from now on, every time you watch one of Broly's fights on YouTube, see a picture of Broly on a fansite, or read about Broly in a fanfic, there will now always be stupid comments about "Hur hur, Broly's a woman now" and "hur hur, Broly's just going crazy because he's jealous for attention" and "Hur hur, better get Jiren." The original memes about Broly haven't changed, since as you pointed out, Kale embodies all of them. It's just that, like you'll never be able to watch "Vegito vs. Super Buu" on YouTube without idiots saying "lol, what's Goku talking about, Potara fusion isn't permanent," a large part of the Broly fandom will now permanently include Kale. TFS's Broly Abridged was trying to include every single Broly trope out there, but in coming years people might look back at Broly Abridged and say, "Why didn't they mention Kale?" I agree, Kale is a poor ripoff. Her design has none of Broly's brilliant simplicity, and her motivations/mindset aren't anywhere near as intimidating. A great example of how it's harder to copy something successfully than people might think. You're braver than I am. I never venture down into Youtube comment sections.
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Post by Azoth on Jul 23, 2017 19:14:25 GMT
You know, Kale really reminds me of early MLP: FiM Fluttershy: no confidence, timid, quiet. Just throw in a codependency with Rainbow Dash and they'd be the same characters. It is a marginally better reason for going apeshit than "Kakarot cried for three hours solid as a baby," but damn is she annoying me for the exact same reasons Fluttershy does.
Just comparing their transformations (Broly and Kale), maniacal laughter really helped sell Broly being a monstrous psychopath (and Pantera). Kale's VA doesn't seem to fir the role very well either, doing a good "shy, timid girl," but not so much on the "super rage monster" that is a LSSJ.
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