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Post by Rafael on Apr 19, 2017 15:07:53 GMT
How strong do you guys thing Frieza and Coola will be after becoming Babidi's slaves? Considering Frieza is at the same level of power he had years back on Namek. Finally a real power boost for Frieza with a fifth form? Maybe even a sixth form for Coola?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 16:44:30 GMT
I think the Majin boost could bring up their 5th form to maybe #16 or Semi-Perfect Cell tier at most. I assumed Vegeta was a mid or low SSJ2 tier and then the Majin Boost bumped him up to "FP"SSJ2 to match Goku but we don't know how it increased his power. Gohan filled up half of Buu's meter which could imply that Fat Buu was twice as strong as SSJ2 Gohan. That would mean that Majin Vegeta was more than 50% of Buu's power since he was stronger than Gohan but less than 100% so the Majin power-up was less than a 2x boost for Vegeta. That depends if the meter was supposed to indicate Buu's power or something else and just the energy required to free him/wake him up.
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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Apr 19, 2017 17:22:57 GMT
Cooler is weaker than Yadrat Goku but not by much so I'd place him at SSJ Future Trunks when he first appeared. But not knowing how much the majin boost gives a person in Multiverse its kinda hard to predict. Salagir must see it as a huge boost since Vegeta in multiverse didn't gain ssj2 until he became a majin. So if its that big of a jump then Cooler might unlock 6th form and be Imperfect Cell to possibly Semi-Perfect.
Frieza on the other hand will possibly gain a 5th form and boost his power to Cold's power in his third form or android lvl.
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Post by Rafael on Apr 19, 2017 17:51:29 GMT
SSJ4 GOD Multi Really? I don't recall Salagir saying that but if that's the case for DBM Frieza and Coola still have a lot of untapped potential and Ginyu proved that unlocking that sixth form, the Majin Boost will increase their power a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 22:32:19 GMT
SSJ4 GOD Multi Really? I don't recall Salagir saying that but if that's the case for DBM Frieza and Coola still have a lot of untapped potential and Ginyu proved that unlocking that sixth form, the Majin Boost will increase their power a lot. He didnt. He excplicitly stated he didnt want to "pick a side on that discussion"; so while Vegeta not having SSj2 pre Majin would be the logical thing to assume follwoing the second Broly special as he didnt use it there, for DBM canon its not decided. "[...]Now in our comic, if we put Vegeta SSJ2, we tell for sure our side. If we don't, it does not mean Vegeta can't be SSJ2, although of course it would be stupid for him not to use it in this situation. Therefore, we don't take a clear side. So we chose no SSJ2. We're not saying he does not have the transformation " [Salagir page 259 comments]
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 20, 2017 3:39:18 GMT
I think the Majin boost could bring up their 5th form to maybe #16 or Semi-Perfect Cell tier at most. I assumed Vegeta was a mid or low SSJ2 tier and then the Majin Boost bumped him up to "FP"SSJ2 to match Goku but we don't know how it increased his power. Gohan filled up half of Buu's meter which could imply that Fat Buu was twice as strong as SSJ2 Gohan. That would mean that Majin Vegeta was more than 50% of Buu's power since he was stronger than Gohan but less than 100% so the Majin power-up was less than a 2x boost for Vegeta. That depends if the meter was supposed to indicate Buu's power or something else and just the energy required to free him/wake him up. I completely agree in terms of power leveling. In regards to Cooler, he may become a match for Future Trunks at full power if he too attains the second augmentation form on top of his majin boost. Then again King Cold is said to be equivalent to Perfect Cell before his self-destruction, with Future Trunks now being able to contend against Perfect Cell tier opponents. So most likely Cooler will fall short since Cold is still way more powerful than he is, but maybe Cooler will hit Semi-Perfect Cell's level. Not bad at all. As for Frieza, i'll say around Piccolo's level after absorbing Kami if he's in his first augmentation state. Sounds like a reasonable level for the frost demon prince.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 13:58:09 GMT
@malacassida Hmm then the Majin boost might give a much bigger power-up in DBM than I originally thought. If Vegeta wasn't a SSJ2 before then the gap between him and FPSSJ2 Goku would be much greater. I know they didn't specify but I would go with Vegeta already being a low-mid level SSJ2 by the Buu saga just so the Majin boost isn't as big. If we go with the bigger boost for Vegeta, Cooler and Freeza might reach ASSJ level in their fifth forms.
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Post by Solus on Apr 27, 2017 22:13:37 GMT
I think, unlocking an augmented Form does not happen by increasing power like the supersaiyan transformation. They have to create it themselves. If this is true, then only making Freezer stronger will not automatically give him an augmentation. But after he has seen his family members and even a version of himself do so, he might figure out what he has to do. But it is not like he could be able to perfectly controll it the first time he uses it.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Apr 28, 2017 0:33:56 GMT
Well aside from a Beerus (and Whis) cameo DBM has pretty much ignored the existence of DBS, but I'd be interested to see Golden Majin Frieza if anything. Having one's potential unlocked is the equivalent of training, and we know the Majin seal partially unlocks one's potential. However I think we'll probably see a Full Power Final Form Frieza if anything.
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Post by TheAncientCenturion on Apr 28, 2017 7:30:36 GMT
It's hard to say. We've had no clear cut examples between Majinized characters before and after. At least, so far. I'll assume it is a worth while increase though.
I'ma use power levels to make it a bit more clear cut. They might seem pretty arbitrary. But it's generally how I sees it all.
5th form Cooler on his own is probably >= Goku
Cooler = 160,000,000 Goku = 150,000,000
I'll say that if Maginized, which I assume will be a decent buff, he'll be able to contend with Vegeta when Vegeta fought Android #19.
Vegeta = 180,000,000 Majin Cooler = 180,000,000 - 190,000,000
It makes any Majin boost (just off my hypothetical scenario) 1.125 - 1.187
I'll also be assuming that the 5th form is a x 2 multiplayer.
For Frieza, I'll work under the assumption this might not unlock his 5th form.
Majin Frieza = 135,000,000 - 142,440,000
5th Form Majin Frieza = 270,000,000 - 284,880,000
It makes 4th form Frieza weaker than Namek Goku. Makes 5th form Frieza stronger than Android #16/Imperfect Cell (whom I rank between 240 mil and 260 mil) but weaker than Super Vegeta (who I'd put at 300 mil)
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Post by Solus on Apr 28, 2017 8:29:05 GMT
Your power levels are bullshit and that is exactly the reason why it is forbidden to use them here in the forum.
I never understood how people could think of such ridiculous numbers if Freezer himself clearly stated his own pl to be 530000 and then twice the amount with each transformation. Which means that his true form actually wields only about 4 million. So if he is only using 30 % of that power that means 1200000 which is absolutely reasonable since Goku couldn't defeat Ginyu without Kaioken. And Vegeta after his last Zenkai couldn't become much stronger than 1 million either. So Freezer would still be able to handle him the way he did.
But aside from that the Majin boost does not unlock any potential but grants powers beyond ones own potential. As seen with Yamu and Spoppowic who were average fighters but became more than even Videl could handle. So it is not too hard to imagine that Freezer will be lifted to a whole other level than he is now.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 28, 2017 9:24:59 GMT
Indeed. I'll let it pass this time since there haven't been much instances of numbers used in most of the forum history, thus there has never been a need to remember and enforce this rule.
But using any cypher that has more than 3 zeros is strictly prohibited in any DBZ/DBM/DB thread. Exceptions can be made for Kaioken stuff in certain occasions before Namek saga. Calculating the androids, Cell, Dabura, Buu or even the protagonists during those sagas, as well as the villains from movies pertaining to such time using "Frieza" units from the Saiyan saga is beyond retarded.
Remember: the only reason powerlevels were introduced in DBZ was to state powerlevels were bullshit. From day one we saw Raditz scouter inaccurately calculating Piccolo and Goku's powerlevel. Same with Nappa's "it's over nine thousand!!!!". Then on Namek we frequently saw more of the same, and also scouters blowing up due to overloading.
There wasn't any single instance of them actually being accurate. Therefore, "shitty cashgrab guide numbers" for characters of one or two sagas beyond (or even GT!) are even more worthless.
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Post by snowflake on Apr 28, 2017 13:56:34 GMT
Where is Cooler's 5th form in power tier? Above Namek Goku SSJ, but below 17 and 18? So I guess around Android 19 and 20 level?
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Post by Solus on Apr 28, 2017 19:37:29 GMT
Where is Cooler's 5th form in power tier? Above Namek Goku SSJ, but below 17 and 18? So I guess around Android 19 and 20 level? It depends on which Cooler you mean. Original Toei Cooler from Movie 5 might be just where you assumed. Salagir's Cooler seems to be a little more powerfull, since he inflicted far more damage to Goku (who wasn't weakened by the virus at that point) than the Cyborg did. But on the other hand no-one knows how much Goku has improved inbetween Cooler's appeariance and that of the cyborgs. In the end Salagir's Cooler was stronger but in the same tier. In any Case he was stronger than Freezer and weaker than 18.
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Post by TheAncientCenturion on Apr 29, 2017 5:24:15 GMT
Your power levels are bullshit and that is exactly the reason why it is forbidden to use them here in the forum. I never understood how people could think of such ridiculous numbers if Freezer himself clearly stated his own pl to be 530000 and then twice the amount with each transformation. Which means that his true form actually wields only about 4 million. So if he is only using 30 % of that power that means 1200000 which is absolutely reasonable since Goku couldn't defeat Ginyu without Kaioken. And Vegeta after his last Zenkai couldn't become much stronger than 1 million either. So Freezer would still be able to handle him the way he did. But aside from that the Majin boost does not unlock any potential but grants powers beyond ones own potential. As seen with Yamu and Spoppowic who were average fighters but became more than even Videl could handle. So it is not too hard to imagine that Freezer will be lifted to a whole other level than he is now. You're an awfully cunty one. At least quote me so I see the response. According to the Daizenshuu, which is approved by Akira, Frieza's PL was 120 mil. Don't quite care for a lot else of what you're saying, as it's irrelevant. Lol. You could swap out the PL's and it'd be the same, mate. In fact, even wrote neat lil' sentences there and you could totally disregard my attempt at some fun. The real answer is a lot more bland. It's whatever the author needs them to be at. I tried to my hand at finding some reason for them being X Y or Z. I It's impossible to know the limits of growth they'll make, in the story, as I said in my first post. Indeed. I'll let it pass this time since there haven't been much instances of numbers used in most of the forum history, thus there has never been a need to remember and enforce this rule. But using any cypher that has more than 3 zeros is strictly prohibited in any DBZ/DBM/DB thread. Exceptions can be made for Kaioken stuff in certain occasions before Namek saga. Calculating the androids, Cell, Dabura, Buu or even the protagonists during those sagas, as well as the villains from movies pertaining to such time using "Frieza" units from the Saiyan saga is beyond retarded. Remember: the only reason powerlevels were introduced in DBZ was to state powerlevels were bullshit. From day one we saw Raditz scouter inaccurately calculating Piccolo and Goku's powerlevel. Same with Nappa's "it's over nine thousand!!!!". Then on Namek we frequently saw more of the same, and also scouters blowing up due to overloading. There wasn't any single instance of them actually being accurate. Therefore, "shitty cashgrab guide numbers" for characters of one or two sagas beyond (or even GT!) are even more worthless. U'huh. Thanks chief, for lookin' over this spot of trouble. I'll be fully honest here. I don't really care about that rule. I don't post them on the actual site because of how tedious and inconvenient it is to use already. Walls of text saying the same thing over and over again wouldn't be fun. But, this is. . A forum. Not a 2004 web page. A forum that sees maybe 20 people a day and has 12-15 regular posters. So, sorry. But that's a silly rule to have yet alone enforce. It's like if I made a Proboards forum tomorrow about Bleach and immediately banned all discussion of hypothetical/unseen Bankai. Because it's a non-productive discussion and the small community would be flooded with reposts. Just, kinda not a problem I see ever hitting the forum that needs to be banned.
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Post by Griffith on Apr 29, 2017 5:42:22 GMT
Honestly, at the end of the day Freeza and Coola's strength are solely determined by what Slagir wants. They could be boosted up to Super Saiyan Goku's might in their true forms, or they would have to go fifth form to even hope to defeat an Android 16 tier opponent. Heck, for all we know the Majin boost hardly gives them a boost in power, and all they get are the fifth, and sixth form.
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Post by Solus on Apr 29, 2017 7:38:59 GMT
Honestly, at the end of the day Freeza and Coola's strength are solely determined by what Slagir wants. They could be boosted up to Super Saiyan Goku's might in their true forms, or they would have to go fifth form to even hope to defeat an Android 16 tier opponent. Heck, for all we know the Majin boost hardly gives them a boost in power, and all they get are the fifth, and sixth form. And here we are again. I stated that somewhere above: I think that the augmented forms are not acchieved by increasing power. The arcosians can create them at point of strength to enhance their abilities. So the Majin boost does exactly the opposite of what you suggest. It makes them way stronger but doesn't ulock any augmentation form. In my understanding of these things, that is.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 29, 2017 7:54:22 GMT
U'huh. Thanks chief, for lookin' over this spot of trouble. I'll be fully honest here. I don't really care about that rule. I don't post them on the actual site because of how tedious and inconvenient it is to use already. Walls of text saying the same thing over and over again wouldn't be fun. But, this is. . A forum. Not a 2004 web page. A forum that sees maybe 20 people a day and has 12-15 regular posters. So, sorry. But that's a silly rule to have yet alone enforce. It's like if I made a Proboards forum tomorrow about Bleach and immediately banned all discussion of hypothetical/unseen Bankai. Because it's a non-productive discussion and the small community would be flooded with reposts. Just, kinda not a problem I see ever hitting the forum that needs to be banned. Not sure what do you mean in the first line, and especially the one following "I don't care". There's a reason we do not want powerlevel included beyond one single thread or something like that. It leads conversations in a way we wouldn't like the forum to go into. It's just generally preferred that fighters are compared by whatever fighting feat or battles they have, rather than scaling with mathematical operations out of the ass. The only reason powerlevels existed was to tell us how pointless it was to rely in that puny scouter technology and how much superior the "sensing KI" method the earth warriors used was. It's really a no brainer at this point: Powerlevels (or should I say powerNUMBERS for accuracy, as the concept of "power tiers" is still sorta valid) are bullshit, and is always more fun to reminisce scenes from the anime and manga, than listing some hypothetical numbers that do not even hold that much validity in-universe. This is not a matter of technological capabilities of the forum. The fact this is not 2004 bears little relevance in this matter. I don't want you to feel all excluded if you like those daizenshuu guides, but this is generally discouraged due to invalidity. Salagir does not take into account guide's powerlevels and multipliers. It's a non-sound way of estimating things in DBM, very evidenced by this latest specials, and quite a few others. The general consensus of the community is that we just do not want endless lists of numbers (not saying yours was excessive though) appearing all over the place. I never watched/read Bleach so the analogy is beyond my scope.
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Post by Griffith on Apr 29, 2017 8:46:36 GMT
Honestly, at the end of the day Freeza and Coola's strength are solely determined by what Slagir wants. They could be boosted up to Super Saiyan Goku's might in their true forms, or they would have to go fifth form to even hope to defeat an Android 16 tier opponent. Heck, for all we know the Majin boost hardly gives them a boost in power, and all they get are the fifth, and sixth form. And here we are again. I stated that somewhere above: I think that the augmented forms are not acchieved by increasing power. The arcosians can create them at point of strength to enhance their abilities. So the Majin boost does exactly the opposite of what you suggest. It makes them way stronger but doesn't ulock any augmentation form. In my understanding of these things, that is. Nothing ever states or even implies that's the case. In fact what's shown and explained to us does in fact point against the idea that the form is something that they can create. But rather it is something that is consistently shown, and stated to be not something that is created, but discovered, like the Saiyan's Super Saiyan transformations. Heck, the form is even implied to be achieved through fighting, and fighting is a form of training.
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Post by The Masterman on Apr 29, 2017 13:30:56 GMT
Frieza will have a power boost of about 1,000 Raditz while Cooler will get a 1,200 Raditz boost!
In all seriousness no matter the boost I'm calling that anyone other than Cell and a few others who have been majinized will be just cannon fodder and get knocked away easily.
I'm going to guess that Majin Frieza and Cooler would be able to take Goku and Vegeta during the Buu Saga but till we see them doing s*** that proves what they can handle all we can do is guess and hope one of us is right in the end. :T
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