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Post by Son Pan on Oct 4, 2017 4:10:47 GMT
I think Toriyama does have creative control and probably checks in to see do some approvals, but even that is still very different then what he used to do when he drew everything himself and would allow him to play with a few ideas on a week by week basis, since he was drawing himself. Ultimately while DB has never been a master piece in storytelling that Toriyama not having as active of a role as he did with the manga. Sometimes ideas a person might have had could change when they are writing or drawing something out. With outline format it does force him to come up with basic idea, key moments, and how things will end right off the bat rather than drawing a beginning, then coming up with a middle, and finally writing out an end. With Toriyama's own inherent weaknesses added to Toei's inherent weaknesses that it can lead to more problems than solve them.
For the Buu backup plan I don't think that is the case. Animators and writers have to have these episodes done weeks in advance before they are aired. I don't think it is very likely for them to have the time or waste the money to write alternate storylines that they would use based on ratings or fan complaints then have a storyline that is never used just sitting in wait. Now it is possible while Zamasu arc was airing that they saw some fan reactions and it influenced their writing for the Tournament of Power, but I don't really think Buu being swapped by Freeza could have been altered by ratings even if they had gone down. It is possible that they couldn't think of a way to write around him, but if that is so that shows lack of creativity on their part and really does expose how limited writers are in trying to continue the Dragon Ball franchise.
I mean if they can't write around Majin Buu how can they make even stronger enemies for Goku and Vegeta to face when they keep getting stronger and stronger? Beerus power level has to remain higher than theirs, but he doesn't train. The fact fans forced to dive more and more into their head canon to fill up these holes shows how lacking the writing is. There is nothing wrong with doing it for fun, but if fans are forced to do it for almost everything it is a weakness against the series itself.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 4, 2017 5:12:18 GMT
I think it could have. I don't know the view amount for each episode on average so for sake of hypothetical discussion I'll just make them up. Imagine if the average views per episode were 10 million views and then removing Buu from the line up caused the views to drop down to under a million views for multiple consecutive episodes. Something like that would instantly get their attention and even if they had to put Dragon Ball Super on hiatus to rewrite episodes that were already written in order to allow Buu to come back, I'm sure they would. It would be better to throw away 5 or 10 episodes than it would be to keep on angering the fans and the show ending up getting canceled as a result. The amount of money lost on 5-10 episodes that they'd have to go back and change would be less than what they'd never make if the show had to be canceled. Do you get what I'm Saiyan? Just like Toriyama had to do things his editors forced him having Future Trunks do a "These aren't droids you are looking for" change to the Android arc and also made him keep Semi-Perfect Cell around for much less time than he intended, a durastic drop in views seemingly outta nowhere would have to force them to risk the show go down a path that might lead to it being canceled or putting it on hiatus to please the fans. Remember the fans of an anime are it's customers since if they don't like the series then they won't buy the DVDs and merchandise like action figures and officially marketed clothing and various other consumer products sold by those with the marketing rights to the anime's intellectual properties. The anime industry is a business first and foremost and they will do what's in their best interest for making money or else risk their product not being popular and not selling enough to justify continuing the series.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 4, 2017 5:45:35 GMT
I think it could have. I don't know the view amount for each episode on average so for sake of hypothetical discussion I'll just make them up. Imagine if the average views per episode were 10 million views and then removing Buu from the line up caused the views to drop down to under a million views for multiple consecutive episodes. Something like that would instantly get their attention and even if they had to put Dragon Ball Super on hiatus to rewrite episodes that were already written in order to allow Buu to come back, I'm sure they would. It would be better to throw away 5 or 10 episodes than it would be to keep on angering the fans and the show ending up getting canceled as a result. The amount of money lost on 5-10 episodes that they'd have to go back and change would be less than what they'd never make if the show had to be canceled. Do you get what I'm Saiyan? Just like Toriyama had to do things his editors forced him having Future Trunks do a "These aren't droids you are looking for" change to the Android arc and also made him keep Semi-Perfect Cell around for much less time than he intended, a durastic drop in views seemingly outta nowhere would have to force them to risk the show go down a path that might lead to it being canceled or putting it on hiatus to please the fans. Remember the fans of an anime are it's customers since if they don't like the series then they won't buy the DVDs and merchandise like action figures and officially marketed clothing and various other consumer products sold by those with the marketing rights to the anime's intellectual properties. The anime industry is a business first and foremost and they will do what's in their best interest for making money or else risk their product not being popular and not selling enough to justify continuing the series. That seems unlikely to me. From my limited knowledge on Japanese television or at least what they do with anime is that unlike in the west they don't really have their on air shows take breaks unless it is holiday or special is airing. This primary why anime based on manga do fillers in the first place. I believe they do this to keep their time slot. Filler arcs, drawn out ones primarily exist because they need new content for the anime to come out until they have enough manga material to adapt or they decide to do their own thing. If we used Naruto or Bleach anime as examples I believe both of them had long filler arcs that had rating fluctuate from time to time, but they never once put either anime on a break just to wait for manga material to get far ahead. They kept churning out filler arcs to give their authors more time. In fact I have never heard of an anime going on a 5 to 10 week break then come back with new material. I could be wrong, but I don't really think that is how it works. I don't think a lot of these anime companies really give the animators or writers a whole lot of money to work with. I've heard some stories on how Toei Animation is cheap and how Mad House usually only does one season anime is because it cost so much to do their amazing animations and they don't have it to spend on more. This is probably why animation varies from episode to episode or show to show more frequently than say a cartoon animated in the United States. It is probably not plausible for them to stop animating and take a break if ratings go down to reanimate something. That costs time and money. Plus keep in mind they wouldn't even be sure what is the cause for the ratings drop. That requires them to do research and poll research, which would take time to study before they could attempt to animate something new, which would go into the budget their company has given them. With a manga weekly it is easier to fix or alter a problem, since it only has one person drawing that manga. They can easily correct something in their next chapter, which will come out the following week. Animators require, artists, writers, and to bring in voice actors to redo something. That is all expensive. It is very hard for them to stop an anime, put it on hold for several weeks to try reanimate a new batch of episodes in hopes of ratings return. If Super gets a major ratings drop and it doesn't pick up it is either done or the company will give them a chance with the next arc to see if it can regain viewers, but they won't shell out more money to them to go on a long break to redo their current arc with no guarantee if that will fix the problem.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 4, 2017 7:46:34 GMT
Son Pan So you're telling me that you think Toei would let Dragon Ball Super, one of their most profitable shows, get canceled instead of scrapping some already animated episodes to remake them to please the fans and avoid it getting canceled. Do you really think they would if they saw their ratings drop dramatically. Oh and you say it takes time and polling to determine why ratings dropped? Sure it does, but I doubt it takes more than a couple weeks and if I'm not mistaken there were several episodes prior to the ToP actually starting after Buu was cut from the roster. Also even if they had to Deus Ex Machina him back in to the ToP after they already started airing the actual ToP in order to save the show from getting canceled after they discovered from polling that Buu was why the ratings dropped, I'm sure they would. It might come across as sloppy writing or bullshit, but hey maybe they'd just have a big reveal that Buu woke up minutes before the tournament started and Master Roshi decided to be sneaky and use the Mafuba to hide him inside one of his jars. He could pop the cap off, Buu comes out, the GoDs/SKs of other Universes call for U7 to be DQ'd for cheating, and Zen-Oh allows it because he really enjoyed watching Buu fight during the Zen Exhibition Match and was disappointed that he wasn't on the U7 roster. What Zen-Oh says goes and the tournament continues on as normal. Now the other GoDs/SKs might've been angry, but maybe some of them had thought up the same kinda sneaky plan to bring in additional fighters and were just trying to get U7 DQ'd or find out if they would able to bring in their additional fighters later on, so they feigned outrage at Buu coming out of the jar. Ya know actually I wouldn't be too surprised if they are already planning on doing something just like that and that Gohan is the one holding onto the jar to be opened at the right opportune moment if it comes to them being desperate and trying something that is a gamble that might result in an immediate DQ. Though if say they were about to lose anyways then it wouldn't hurt to make such an attempt to try to save themselves.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 4, 2017 9:41:22 GMT
Son Pan So you're telling me that you think Toei would let Dragon Ball Super, one of their most profitable shows, get canceled instead of scrapping some already animated episodes to remake them to please the fans and avoid it getting canceled. Do you really think they would if they saw their ratings drop dramatically. Oh and you say it takes time and polling to determine why ratings dropped? Sure it does, but I doubt it takes more than a couple weeks and if I'm not mistaken there were several episodes prior to the ToP actually starting after Buu was cut from the roster. Also even if they had to Deus Ex Machina him back in to the ToP after they already started airing the actual ToP in order to save the show from getting canceled after they discovered from polling that Buu was why the ratings dropped, I'm sure they would. It might come across as sloppy writing or bullshit, but hey maybe they'd just have a big reveal that Buu woke up minutes before the tournament started and Master Roshi decided to be sneaky and use the Mafuba to hide him inside one of his jars. He could pop the cap off, Buu comes out, the GoDs/SKs of other Universes call for U7 to be DQ'd for cheating, and Zen-Oh allows it because he really enjoyed watching Buu fight during the Zen Exhibition Match and was disappointed that he wasn't on the U7 roster. What Zen-Oh says goes and the tournament continues on as normal. Now the other GoDs/SKs might've been angry, but maybe some of them had thought up the same kinda sneaky plan to bring in additional fighters and were just trying to get U7 DQ'd or find out if they would able to bring in their additional fighters later on, so they feigned outrage at Buu coming out of the jar. Ya know actually I wouldn't be too surprised if they are already planning on doing something just like that and that Gohan is the one holding onto the jar to be opened at the right opportune moment if it comes to them being desperate and trying something that is a gamble that might result in an immediate DQ. Though if say they were about to lose anyways then it wouldn't hurt to make such an attempt to try to save themselves. If the ratings dropped as dramatically as you are suggesting and they never picked up after a long time then yes they would cancel it. That is what happened with GT after all and DB was a huge thing back then. I think it is more likely though that if ratings dropped dramatically as you said that Toei would take a wait and see approach to see if they pick up again. Remember that ratings dropping and picking up again are part of the game. Let's say your assumption is right in Buu was the reason for a huge dip in ratings that doesn't mean the rest of the arc couldn't have anything else to draw those viewers back without needing them to put the show on pause and change things. Even if the ToP had shit ratings for a bit it doesn't mean Toei would cancel Super immediately. They would most likely let the show go on to see if the next arc could save things, possibly even have Toriyama and other writers to brainstorm and see what went wrong. I'm sure that is what happened with GT. They tried to emulate old school DB with adventure vibe and DB hunt, turned Goku into a kid, had Pan replace Bulma, and threw in Trunks in there. When that didn't seem to work they tried to emulate Z and the rest of GT arcs were high action and big battles. When that didn't work they cancelled it. I just don't think the animators can shift gears as fast as you are suggesting though. We have to remember that it is easier for manga artists to do that because they are the only people working on it. It doesn't cost him or her anything to make changes to a chapter and it is easier for them to ask for a week break from their publisher for more time. With animation studios it is harder to make changes based on a week by week basis. It cost money to get voice actors back in the studios, it takes time to draw and animate new frames, and it is hard to gain immediate results. There isn't even a guarantee the changes they make will be worth the costs. It is more practical to take a wait and see approach and try to fix things out later on. I won't pretend I know exactly how many episodes they have animated, but considering the series is a weekly one that it must mean they have several episodes done ahead of schedule and don't work on a week by week basis like a manga might. Fat Buu could have been used again. I think we all agree with on that point. Where we disagree seems to be in our belief that the writers made a good or bad move by doing what they did or if there was a deeper meaning behind it. Sometimes the simplest explanation though is the best one. I don't know what else to say. I could be wrong and you are right. I could be right and you are wrong. We will never know. I guess I just have less faitn in DB franchise and the people working on it than you do.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 10, 2017 2:03:19 GMT
This all comes down to the writers not having enough creativity to make these universes have more skilled or better fighters. As hax as Majin Buu is to most people that there are ways to write around him or have characters with unique abilities that could make them stand out and be counters to Buu. The fact that we are even discussing they couldn't think of ways to defeat Buu means to me DB needs to end and they have no ideas left. They either need to let the franchise die or do a total reboot to free their creative juices up to balance out power, skill, and technique better. Son Pan I think they could've done what you are talking about, but no matter how you slice it people would've complained that he was either too powerful, he got nerfed, that they made a more hax character just for the purpose of defeating him, or they Deus Ex defeated him because he was defeating too many characters. I think for sake of including Frieza and to cut down the complaints they just figured they'd Deus Ex him before the tournament to get the bitching over during the next several or so episodes that would lead up to the ToP. Better to have any fan bitching prior to the ToP than during it. Also by doing it that way, they could always change their minds last minute by having something cause him to wake up if it was too controversial and the ratings leading up to the ToP took a serious hit as a result of him being taken off the team again. Honestly the best thing to do here would'be been to just have Jiren throw him out of the ring after Buu does some shenanigans with a bunch of cannon fodder fighters instead of Goku being able to threaten a universe as a SSG but have trouble with a big metal dragon because he has "iron skin". He's already been set up as Goku's big Rival for this story arc, so immediately taking Buu out of the running as effortlessly as Beerus did would both solve the Buu problem and not make it come out of nowhere and also show that he or his team is at least TRYING to think strategically by eliminating U7's healer and nigh-indestructible person with the most efficient way of doing so. This also lets Buu wreak some havoc in that way that only Buu can. Yes it ends up with the Worfing of Buu, but as we all know by now if you aren't Goku you exist to show how much better Goku is now than he was before. For a frame of reference let's actually look at what Beerus did to Buu in DBS: First he showed just how far he was above Buu, physically, by letting Buu punch him in the face to absolutely no effect. Then he grabs him by the hand and gives him a small spiel on his godhood. Then he just spins him around and throws him overboard and finishes by felling him with a single ki blast. This accomplishes the following: - Establishes how much stronger he is than Buu. - Bypasses Buu's regeneration completely--he could also have HAKAI'd him, but that's not the issue here. - Completely disorients Buu by spinning him so hard he can't react. Buu likely couldn't even THINK of trying a magical attack by this point. - Removes him from the playing field. Jiren or Toppo could just as easily have done this. Hit could've done this. Hell, GOHAN could have done this. But again, this would require more competent writing all around both for Buu and against him. Initially he'd give U7 a great advantage by healing them and restoring their stamina, which a smart tactician could've picked up on. This of course would require someone besides Hit actually watching the battlefield, monitoring their team AND acting to preserve the team as best as possible, which so far only Hit has done.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 10, 2017 20:33:17 GMT
AxalonTrue, Buu could've been taken out that way, but not necessarily so easily if he absorbed smarter characters like Bulma and more powerful characters like Beerus, Whis, & countless other previously considered to be powerful villains and more-permanently dead heroes. Just imagine Buu at the level of Whirus (as seems to be the name of a fusion of Beerus & Whis in one of the games) who also has the intelligence and scientific knowledge that Bulma has. That version of Buu would be pretty much Zen Buu of DBM and would not have been so easily defeated even by Jiren.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 10, 2017 22:33:31 GMT
Axalon True, Buu could've been taken out that way, but not necessarily so easily if he absorbed smarter characters like Bulma Oh there's just no way Vegeta's going to agree to that. Vegeta cares so much about her that he stopped training when she was expecting to give birth, which to a Saiyan like Goku was tantamount to not breathing, eating and then some. He was so pissed off at Beerus giving Bulma a gentle slap to the face that he overpowered SS3 Goku in his rage to punch Beerus in the face. No way he's letting a big rotund blob of pink gum absorb his waifu. I don't see Beerus and Whis agreeing to this either, as that's certainly the only way they could possibly be absorbed by someone so much weaker than them like Buu is. I think if Buu were to actually gain any power from anything it'd be by absorbing Yamcha for that miniscule fraction of power he would give him, followed by trying to absorb others at the ToP. Either way I foresee the same result, Buu gets chucked out of the ring by Jiren or Toppo the minute he shows how much of an advantage he is.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 10, 2017 22:38:21 GMT
Axalon True, Buu could've been taken out that way, but not necessarily so easily if he absorbed smarter characters like Bulma Oh there's just no way Vegeta's going to agree to that. Vegeta cares so much about her that he stopped training when she was expecting to give birth, which to a Saiyan like Goku was tantamount to not breathing, eating and then some. He was so pissed off at Beerus giving Bulma a gentle slap to the face that he overpowered SS3 Goku in his rage to punch Beerus in the face. No way he's letting a big rotund blob of pink gum absorb his waifu. I don't see Beerus and Whis agreeing to this either, as that's certainly the only way they could possibly be absorbed by someone so much weaker than them like Buu is. I think if Buu were to actually gain any power from anything it'd be by absorbing Yamcha for that miniscule fraction of power he would give him, followed by trying to absorb others at the ToP. Either way I foresee the same result, Buu gets chucked out of the ring by Jiren or Toppo the minute he shows how much of an advantage he is. Jiren already did it to a China-copy version of Buu anyway (Maji Kayo), with very similar abilities. No absorbing, but still.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 10, 2017 23:26:34 GMT
There is also the possibility that Buu doesn’t want to use his absorption if he even relearned it. Absorption has the potential for changing his personality completely. He may just want to stay who he is and live his life with his friends Satan and Bee. Just because Buu can absorb someone to increase his intelligence and power doesn’t mean he has or wants to use it. Actually show he more depth to character and if he revealed he doesn’t want to absorb people and stay Mr. Buu because it is the life he finally got to choose rather than have it forced upon him by Babidi or Bibidi.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 11, 2017 1:37:57 GMT
AxalonSon PanI'm not Saiyan that it would have to be permanent. I could possibly see Vegeta, Beerus, & Whis being okay with it if it was agreed upon to only be a temporary thing. Remember Buu takes a while to permanently absorb others and while it is unknown how long exactly it takes, we do know that it is quite a bit longer than 48 minutes as Super Buu had people absorbed for several hours (Fat Buu being the longest) and they were still inside the pods. I think Vegeta would be willing to agree if Bulma was okay with it. As for Beerus and Whis, I'm sure they'd have no issue seeing as they'd likely no a way to force it to be undone if Super Zen Buu refused to undo it for some reason. As for Buu not wanting to do it, I could totally see him being easily persuaded by Mr. Satan to agree to doing it for a short time only seeing as he seems to do almost anything Mr. Satan asks him to do except giving away food. Buu is too simple minded seeing as Mr. Satan just needs to bribe him with food to get him to do almost anything; I mean Buu doesn't really need Mr. Satan for that since he has Candy Beam, which doesn't have to be used on living beings and therefore he could turn anything into food if he wanted to do so. He listens to Mr. Satan because Mr. Satan is his best friend and also because of his simple minded nature as well.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 11, 2017 1:48:36 GMT
AxalonSon PanI'm not Saiyan that it would have to be permanent. I could possibly see Vegeta, Beerus, & Whis being okay with it if it was agreed upon to only be a temporary thing. Remember Buu takes a while to permanently absorb others and while it is unknown how long exactly it takes, we do know that it is quite a bit longer than 48 minutes as Super Buu had people absorbed for several hours (Fat Buu being the longest) and they were still inside the pods. I think Vegeta would be willing to agree if Bulma was okay with it. As for Beerus and Whis, I'm sure they'd have no issue seeing as they'd likely no a way to force it to be undone if Super Zen Buu refused to undo it for some reason. As for Buu not wanting to do it, I could totally see him being easily persuaded by Mr. Satan to agree to doing it for a short time only seeing as he seems to do almost anything Mr. Satan asks him to do except giving away food. Buu is too simple minded seeing as Mr. Satan just needs to bribe him with food to get him to do almost anything; I mean Buu doesn't really need Mr. Satan for that since he has Candy Beam, which doesn't have to be used on living beings and therefore he could turn anything into food if he wanted to do so. He listens to Mr. Satan because Mr. Satan is his best friend and also because of his simple minded nature as well. He may not want to do it period even if it is temporary. The others would probably respect that or not even want him to. Buu is simple minded, but that could make it even harder to convince him he if he is dead set against it. He could want to protect U7 as himself and not transform into some new personality to do it. It wouldn’t be the first time a DB character has done something irrational out of pride or their own selfish desires. That is assuming absorption is even in th cards. If it is never brought up again how many people would really even notice or care. Also absorbing Beerus and Whis seems unlikely. All the gods and angles are at the tournament. It would look suspicious if Beerus and Whis aren’t. It would be easy to place a rule that all top gods have to be in attendance. There are ways to write around absorption. Some might complain, but the majority probably wouldn’t care.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 11, 2017 2:17:18 GMT
Son PanYeah, but I just don't see it being in his personality that he'd not want to absorb others. The only thing he seems to have a problem with doing is sharing his food and while GT isn't canon he was shown to temporarily absorb Mr. Satan and Pan to save them from being possessed by Baby. I could seeing Toei having gone with that vein and Toriyama not having had any objection to it being done. As for a rule preventing Beerus and Whis from attending, I still think Buu with Bulma and a large host of former villains and other dead canonical characters working to make his power be beyond ridiculous especially if he could absorb Babidi and use his Majinization magic even if said magic would work differently since the caster isn't evil. Also Babidi's teleportation magic could've come in handy. Just teleport foes into the stands and U7 defeats 90% of the other Universes in pretty much one foul swoop so to speak.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 11, 2017 3:40:02 GMT
I think if the plot doesn’t require Mr. Buu to use absorption they will come up with an excuse for why he doesn’t use it or they will not address the issue at all. Salagir thought to use Majin Buu is that kept absorbing people to make him the ultimate life form, but he is the only writer I’ve seen do this. I wouldn’t be surprised if Super just ignored it altogether. It is not like he tried it against Beerus. It is not like it is out of character for Bulma to not trust Buu to absorb her or being vehemently against it and Vegeta being deadset against it either. As for bringing past villains to absorb the actual series never bothered to give us a reason for why some old villains like Cell, Dabura, or Babidi come back despite having skills or skill and power as warriors over Krillin, Tien, and Roshi. They didn’t have Bulma concevert everyone into cyborgs to boost their powers and no one is bitching about that. I think the absorption thing was a problem they would have come up with a b.s. reason to explain why he can’t use it.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 12, 2017 0:50:45 GMT
True that they might've just explained it away using a b.s. reason and out-of-Universe Toriyama has most likely forgotten Buu even has that power just like the so many other things Toriyama has forgotten about like Saiyans having tails or Launch being an actual character that lived at Kame House and had feelings for Tien or that technically Nappa had been killed by one of Frieza's henchmen. Tho the last one could be just as easily explained away by Shenron interpreting the wish as anyone that Frieza or his current henchmen killed in the last year, which Vegeta was no longer considered to be.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 12, 2017 0:54:50 GMT
Long story short, I think Buu's been removed just because Toriyama's moved on from him. Fans of Buu were probably lucky that he got to compete in the exhibition match, given that the manga's version of it just has the GoD's slugging it out instead with Goku and the others simply watching from the sidelines. True that they might've just explained it away using a b.s. reason and out-of-Universe Toriyama has most likely forgotten Buu even has that power just like the so many other things Toriyama has forgotten about like Saiyans having tails or Launch being an actual character that lived at Kame House and had feelings for Tien or that technically Nappa had been killed by one of Frieza's henchmen. Tho the last one could be just as easily explained away by Shenron interpreting the wish as anyone that Frieza or his current henchmen killed in the last year, which Vegeta was no longer considered to be. Bad as Toriyama's memory is, Saiyans having tails is actually not one of the things he has forgotten about. He just didn't want to draw Saiyan tails anymore.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 12, 2017 1:12:28 GMT
Long story short, I think Buu's been removed just because Toriyama's moved on from him. Fans of Buu were probably lucky that he got to compete in the exhibition match, given that the manga's version of it just has the GoD's slugging it out instead with Goku and the others simply watching from the sidelines. True that they might've just explained it away using a b.s. reason and out-of-Universe Toriyama has most likely forgotten Buu even has that power just like the so many other things Toriyama has forgotten about like Saiyans having tails or Launch being an actual character that lived at Kame House and had feelings for Tien or that technically Nappa had been killed by one of Frieza's henchmen. Tho the last one could be just as easily explained away by Shenron interpreting the wish as anyone that Frieza or his current henchmen killed in the last year, which Vegeta was no longer considered to be. Bad as Toriyama's memory is, Saiyans having tails is actually not one of the things he has forgotten about. He just didn't want to draw Saiyan tails anymore. Moved on from him, I don't know, because it seems like he's brought back a lot of other characters that he had previously moved on from and only had appear once in a blue moon. Though it's entirely possible those characters have only been brought back upon Toei's insistence with the exception of Frieza since Frieza is one of Toriyama's favorites.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 12, 2017 1:42:07 GMT
Long story short, I think Buu's been removed just because Toriyama's moved on from him. Fans of Buu were probably lucky that he got to compete in the exhibition match, given that the manga's version of it just has the GoD's slugging it out instead with Goku and the others simply watching from the sidelines. Bad as Toriyama's memory is, Saiyans having tails is actually not one of the things he has forgotten about. He just didn't want to draw Saiyan tails anymore. Moved on from him, I don't know, because it seems like he's brought back a lot of other characters that he had previously moved on from and only had appear once in a blue moon. Though it's entirely possible those characters have only been brought back upon Toei's insistence with the exception of Frieza since Frieza is one of Toriyama's favorites. He could also have just moved back to them out of nostalgia or something. Either way, guessing at the mind of Toriyama is a near futile task.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 12, 2017 6:51:02 GMT
Moved on from him, I don't know, because it seems like he's brought back a lot of other characters that he had previously moved on from and only had appear once in a blue moon. Though it's entirely possible those characters have only been brought back upon Toei's insistence with the exception of Frieza since Frieza is one of Toriyama's favorites. He could also have just moved back to them out of nostalgia or something. Either way, guessing at the mind of Toriyama is a near futile task. Oh and he got rid of Saiyan tails because he didn't want to draw them anymore and that is why they wouldn't grow back if the Saiyan lost their tail after adulthood, but after Saiyan Saga he truly forgot that Saiyans had them and that is why Gohan's tail never grew back after it removed by Vegeta in Saiyan Saga after it had regrown. It's also the reason we never see Trunks and Goten with them. He later went on to say that their parents removed them from Trunks and Goten at birth and I think implied/said that Bulma found out a way to prevent them from regrowing or something like that or maybe it's for us to assume that they wished on Shenron that they wouldn't grow back.
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