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Post by supergojita3 on Dec 8, 2021 7:46:35 GMT
...You know what? Looking at those pics again, I think I was wrong. U16 is on the left side in the first few panels, while U18 is on the right side. U16 Gohan got warped in with his back facing U18, and his mouth facing U16. As that's the case, it makes sense that U16 Piccolo would have given him one, and not U18. U16 Piccolo would, indeed, have two for Bra to steal. So, there's no plot hole there. ...That being said, looking through reminded me of another good question to ask. "How in the world did she know about Cell's nucleus?": How does she know Cell better than the guy that actually fought him? How does she know about something Cell never demonstrated till the actual revolt? do you mean the core at all? or the reinforced core? as to knowing of the core, vegetto or gohan could tell her about it if they were discussing things with satan or about satan as he's a celeb on tv for beating cell. as to the reinforced core, so do we know if bra was watching any of the fights? maybe she saw the fights play out. then theres the deal of cell having to trick babadi into thinking cell was still with him. I suppose the mental link could give away cells plan to reinforce the core even before he did that, and bra tapped into that strategy and was going after the core, assuming the plan worked. that, or just blasting cell like goku did in the cell games wasn't enough, and she was looking for the core as a "just in case thing". Or...its a plot hole! the best kind of hole for plot related things!
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Post by fionordequester on Dec 8, 2021 8:24:13 GMT
The reinforced core is what's relevant here, as Vegetto & Gohan come from a universe where you just needed a big enough blast—only our Majin Revolt Cell has the stronger nucleus. Regarding the possibility of Majin Bra watching the fight... That depends. She WAS a last ditch effort, right? "Plan B", as Bardock called it? Is that fair to say, based on these panels (1452 & 1567-1571)? Page 1452: Page 1567: Page 1568: Page 1569: Page 1570: Page 1571:
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Post by عمار on Dec 8, 2021 12:31:22 GMT
oung Son Pan Super-dee-Duper Veku Your kind words means a lot to me guys! Thank you for taking the time to read it! Once again, that is a huge amount of work !!! Thank you for the hard work !!! Not as much work as drawing a full chapter! And you're welcome! Just one question I have for you: Is there gonna be Twitch live stream this Sunday? Also this is the second time I’ve asked a question and Salagir doesn’t address it and talks around it. I’m starting to think I should just stop, because this is almost becoming a pattern. Lol! xD Well, that will explain the drops of the number of the question. It seems that you're not the only one who feels this way. Are they actually justifying making Goku's mother a 12k powerlevel elite and queen of the Saiyans (making Goku's lineage objectively better than Vegeta's) because doing otherwise would be misogynistic? Is Toriyama misogynistic for not having many female fighters? Some manga have more men, others have more women, it's natural. No need for token guys or token girls, it's fine to make Saiyan girls or whatever, but I suspect a superficial aim to write a "strong empowered female" is how we ended with this Hanasia mess in the first place. I...don't think Salagir was serious when said that! Salagir stated his reasons in another Twitch: Q. Some people think by making both Hanasia(Goku's mother) & Bardock elites, it "cheap" Goku's achievements. Like it make it looks it was thanks to his "genes" & not his hard works that he as strong as he is right now. They think it will be better if both his parents or at least his mom was a nobody, so it doesn't feel that his success was thanks to them & not his hard work & training. What is your take about all of this?
Salagir: There has been tons of debates about that. There's a lie about Goku being a low class warrior. Compared to Vegeta when he arrive on earth, Goku was a low class warrior, but in reality Goku has been a winner all his life. If you re-read dragon ball the manga, all the enemies he encountered, he destroyed them with huge easiness, it's super easy for him. The first time his life got little & I say little difficulty was against Master Roshi in the tournament, all the other time he destroys his enemies with ease. And then the second time was against Tao Pai Pai, & that was volume 7. So, the saying that "Goku is the guy with overcoming his problems" is not true. Goku was born saiyan. He's super strong, he's sees kamehameha done once & he's using it, & he was the first guy on earth to master it so fast. And every time Goku sees a new technique, he copy it immediately. And then people are like "Oh look! Buu can see a technique & he copy it. 😑" yes! Everyone can do that in DBZ guys! So, Goku is not guy who was super bad & trained to be super good. Goku was super good. Goku is a born talented genius of fighting just like Vegeta. And I don't really care who's his parents are. Now, why did I put Hanasia as a strong warrior? Well, it was mostly to show how Bardock wanted to have strong children, so he took a strong mate, & hoped to have strong children, & he does not. He used his scouter & saw them as a weak & failures. So, I did that in order to do an impact on that. And also, I did that because I wanted a strong female characters & we don't have enough in DBZ. But in terms of "genetics"? Not really important, I will not make that super important "If the parents are strong then the children are strong" no, I don't care about that. (1:19:22 min) And honestly, I don't view Hanasia being strong as a "mess". Yea an odd take on his part and not sure why he brought up the sexist thing to try and justify himself, could be a bit of sarcasm. I’m not the biggest fan of the Hanasia we saw for example because I think her being so strong takes away a bit from Gokus humble beginnings of being born from a low class and him having to work his ass off to push past that throughout early Z. Doesn’t mean I hate women just because I think he over powered her. Nothing wrong with strong female characters that have to possibly work for it or even weaker ones that happen to out smart stronger characters (like Phipsil distracting Bra just to hit her with some carbonite) that was awesome. All that aside I’d still take the DBM version over DB Minus. I completely disagree with this statement, because Goku was never viewed as the "underdog" who have to prove himself. There's a discussion about this topic here: dbmenglish.freeforums.net/thread/1008/hanasia-dbm-gokus-mom?page=5
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Post by Solus on Dec 8, 2021 14:15:35 GMT
oung Son Pan Super-dee-Duper Veku Your kind words means a lot to me guys! Thank you for taking the time to read it! Once again, that is a huge amount of work !!! Thank you for the hard work !!! Not as much work as drawing a full chapter! And you're welcome! Just one question I have for you: Is there gonna be Twitch live stream this Sunday? Also this is the second time I’ve asked a question and Salagir doesn’t address it and talks around it. I’m starting to think I should just stop, because this is almost becoming a pattern. Lol! xD Well, that will explain the drops of the number of the question. It seems that you're not the only one who feels this way. Are they actually justifying making Goku's mother a 12k powerlevel elite and queen of the Saiyans (making Goku's lineage objectively better than Vegeta's) because doing otherwise would be misogynistic? Is Toriyama misogynistic for not having many female fighters? Some manga have more men, others have more women, it's natural. No need for token guys or token girls, it's fine to make Saiyan girls or whatever, but I suspect a superficial aim to write a "strong empowered female" is how we ended with this Hanasia mess in the first place. I...don't think Salagir was serious when said that! Salagir stated his reasons in another Twitch: Q. Some people think by making both Hanasia(Goku's mother) & Bardock elites, it "cheap" Goku's achievements. Like it make it looks it was thanks to his "genes" & not his hard works that he as strong as he is right now. They think it will be better if both his parents or at least his mom was a nobody, so it doesn't feel that his success was thanks to them & not his hard work & training. What is your take about all of this?
Salagir: There has been tons of debates about that. There's a lie about Goku being a low class warrior. Compared to Vegeta when he arrive on earth, Goku was a low class warrior, but in reality Goku has been a winner all his life. If you re-read dragon ball the manga, all the enemies he encountered, he destroyed them with huge easiness, it's super easy for him. The first time his life got little & I say little difficulty was against Master Roshi in the tournament, all the other time he destroys his enemies with ease. And then the second time was against Tao Pai Pai, & that was volume 7. So, the saying that "Goku is the guy with overcoming his problems" is not true. Goku was born saiyan. He's super strong, he's sees kamehameha done once & he's using it, & he was the first guy on earth to master it so fast. And every time Goku sees a new technique, he copy it immediately. And then people are like "Oh look! Buu can see a technique & he copy it. 😑" yes! Everyone can do that in DBZ guys! So, Goku is not guy who was super bad & trained to be super good. Goku was super good. Goku is a born talented genius of fighting just like Vegeta. And I don't really care who's his parents are. Now, why did I put Hanasia as a strong warrior? Well, it was mostly to show how Bardock wanted to have strong children, so he took a strong mate, & hoped to have strong children, & he does not. He used his scouter & saw them as a weak & failures. So, I did that in order to do an impact on that. And also, I did that because I wanted a strong female characters & we don't have enough in DBZ. But in terms of "genetics"? Not really important, I will not make that super important "If the parents are strong then the children are strong" no, I don't care about that. (1:19:22 min) And honestly, I don't view Hanasia being strong as a "mess". Yea an odd take on his part and not sure why he brought up the sexist thing to try and justify himself, could be a bit of sarcasm. I’m not the biggest fan of the Hanasia we saw for example because I think her being so strong takes away a bit from Gokus humble beginnings of being born from a low class and him having to work his ass off to push past that throughout early Z. Doesn’t mean I hate women just because I think he over powered her. Nothing wrong with strong female characters that have to possibly work for it or even weaker ones that happen to out smart stronger characters (like Phipsil distracting Bra just to hit her with some carbonite) that was awesome. All that aside I’d still take the DBM version over DB Minus. I completely disagree with this statement, because Goku was never viewed as the "underdog" who have to prove himself. There's a discussion about this topic here: dbmenglish.freeforums.net/thread/1008/hanasia-dbm-gokus-mom?page=5 I also have to thank you for your hard work. My question was brought up and answered ... sort of. I asked, what would have happened, if Babidi was killed. And the answer would have decided, if Cell was criticized rightfully or not. Because, as we don't know if Bra would have stopped to attack everybody, it's not that stupid to actually attack her with a sneak attack rather than Babidi himself. In that case, Cell's actions would have been logical and in the best interest of the group and not only his own. But I guess, we'll never know.
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Post by Skarr on Dec 8, 2021 14:30:12 GMT
U16 is on the left side in the first few panels, while U18 is on the right side. U16 Gohan got warped in with his back facing U18, and his mouth facing U16. As that's the case, it makes sense that U16 Piccolo would have given him one, and not U18. U16 Piccolo would, indeed, have two for Bra to steal. So, there's no plot hole there. I couldn't tell so I took your word for it . I assumed there could've been characters moving between panels. I think this was an understandable mistake since they were identical and had the same role in the fight once U16 Piccolo divided his senzus. I don't think there's anything wrong with criticism. I try to offer constructive criticism to the fanwork I read and suggestion on what I think could be improved for future reference. DBM is the only fan comic I've seen where pointing an inconsistency or change from an old comment involves sometimes jumping to the conclusion that the authors don't care anymore. It becomes obvious when an fan author no longer cares or interested but then we hear why DBM is an outlier and could have other reasons for putting in all that effort. I think it's especially...not sure what word to use...maybe awkward to hear it after a twitch session. They only started having the twitch Q&A a few months ago as another way to communicate with fans and answer more questions. Twitch doesn't really benefit the comic because it's only being used by a small number of existing fans but they still consider it worth the time to schedule for a few hours.
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Post by supergojita3 on Dec 8, 2021 16:21:32 GMT
The reinforced core is what's relevant here, as Vegetto & Gohan come from a universe where you just needed a big enough blast—only our Majin Revolt Cell has the stronger nucleus. Regarding the possibility of Majin Bra watching the fight... That depends. She WAS a last ditch effort, right? "Plan B", as Bardock called it? Is that fair to say, based on these panels (1452 & 1567-1571)? Page 1452: Page 1567: Page 1568: Page 1569: Page 1570: Page 1571: what relevance does the psychic link cell was referring to speak of? is this something that could explain it? maybe he can share info provided its something he wants done. He had no info on spopovitch and yamu, and considering how much energy he got, he had no idea they were doing well. so...maybe he learned from that experience in his world and made it a point to gather intel on his fighters, and any relevant info was passed among the group. This would all have to be done off screen though, so its not much better. I guess babadi could ask any fighters if they have any hax powers that could come in handy. The reinforced core idea could be something cell could have suggested, in arrogance before he escaped his control not realizign it would come back to bite him. he made several sloppy moves in his next fight after all. I don't care for the novel much, but I do think bra was majined right after she went to bed. so I guess the spell babadi used was just a teleport spell. if and IF bra was watching the fight, why would he need to warp her around. she can already do that, and why not use her from the start? I think the novel has her watching the fight, but I don't recall. cell did seem to know of bra before her debut. the best guess I can come up with is "babadi sent the info psychically, and did so off screen via the mental link cell was referring to." Off screen shenanigans are still lazy writing though.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 8, 2021 17:14:32 GMT
On the Bra knowing to destroy Cell’s core/nucleus it was my thought that like how in U18 the younger generation heard stories of the past battles that U16 very much was the same way. Bra knowing Cell can regenerate as long as his core is intact is something she could know. Being a the tournament where Cell is a contestant also makes it likely Vegetto, Piccolo, or Gohan could have reminded Bra about Cell’s core just in case she had him as a opponent and because they were unsure just how strong Cell was, since they guessed he was holding back his power. That seemed reasonable to me to me for how Bra know about the core.
As for how Bra would know to look out for it she might have sensed U16 Gohan’s attack that nearly killed Cell. Bra knows her brother knows how to kill Cell, since he did before in their universe. For Gohan to have failed to kill Cell is tricked than they a thought. Perhaps that is why Bra knew to look for the core and make sure to destroy it to ensure Cell died. I do admit that is a lot of wild guessing on my part. I think it might have been better if Cell started to regenerate and have Bra destroy him with Buu Destroying technique before he fully formed to ensure the core was obliterated for sure. It gets the same result we got, but loses the need to wonder how Bra knew about the reinforced core idea.
I’m not a big fan of the reinforced nucleus to be honest. I think it doesn’t make much sense on how it can survive giant ki blast strong enough to obliterate Cell’s whole body, but somehow it is possible for people to punch through the reinforced part of the body to rip it out. It feels like it unnecessarily makes it even harder to kill Cell when he is already hard enough to kill as it is. That is a similar problem I had with Broly. Personally I feel writers, both professional and fans, get too caught up in strengthening their characters to the point that they write themselves into a corner. When the time comes from them to write that character’s defeat the audience finds harder to swallow. That is what happened with Cell when he lost to Vegeta.
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Post by عمار on Dec 8, 2021 18:04:36 GMT
I also have to thank you for your hard work. You're welcome. My question was brought up and answered ... sort of. I asked, what would have happened, if Babidi was killed. And the answer would have decided, if Cell was criticized rightfully or not. Because, as we don't know if Bra would have stopped to attack everybody, it's not that stupid to actually attack her with a sneak attack rather than Babidi himself. In that case, Cell's actions would have been logical and in the best interest of the group and not only his own. But I guess, we'll never know. You're right on this point. But something tell me that Salagir didn't thought about it that deep like you & me. xD ...You know what? Looking at those pics again, I think I was wrong. U16 is on the left side in the first few panels, while U18 is on the right side. U16 Gohan got warped in with his back facing U18, and his mouth facing U16. As that's the case, it makes sense that U16 Piccolo would have given him one, and not U18. U16 Piccolo would, indeed, have two for Bra to steal. So, there's no plot hole there. But, looking through reminded me of another good question to ask. "How in the world did she know about Cell's nucleus?": How does she know Cell better than the guy that actually fought him? How does she know about something Cell never demonstrated till the actual revolt? supergojita3 Son Pan Salagir answered this question before. Well, kind of. 😅🤣 Q. How did Bra know about Cell's nucleus during the Majin Rebellion?
Salagir: Ahhhh? She looked at the internet? I would say that people are telling stories to their children. Goten, Trunks, little Bra little Pan, they know a little about Freeza even though they never saw him. I'm sure that the story about Gohan fighting Cell has been told to the family several times. So yes, it's common knowledge.
Asura: Maybe He's talking about how Bra knows about Cell's nucleus surviving Gohan's attack or something like that?
Salagir: She saw what happened to Gohan. Because ummm? she saw. xD When she was still inside Babidi was sharing information, when she's outside she's checking everything happening around her. Because she's alone against everyone, she's aware.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 8, 2021 18:07:55 GMT
...You know what? Looking at those pics again, I think I was wrong. U16 is on the left side in the first few panels, while U18 is on the right side. U16 Gohan got warped in with his back facing U18, and his mouth facing U16. As that's the case, it makes sense that U16 Piccolo would have given him one, and not U18. U16 Piccolo would, indeed, have two for Bra to steal. So, there's no plot hole there. But, looking through reminded me of another good question to ask. "How in the world did she know about Cell's nucleus?": How does she know Cell better than the guy that actually fought him? How does she know about something Cell never demonstrated till the actual revolt? supergojita3 Son Pan Salagir answered this question before. Well, kind of. 😅🤣 Q. How did Bra know about Cell's nucleus during the Majin Rebellion?
Salagir: Ahhhh? She looked at the internet? I would say that people are telling stories to their children. Goten, Trunks, little Bra little Pan, they know a little about Freeza even though they never saw him. I'm sure that the story about Gohan fighting Cell has been told to the family several times. So yes, it's common knowledge.
Asura: Maybe He's talking about how Bra knows about Cell's nucleus surviving Gohan's attack or something like that?
Salagir: She saw what happened to Gohan. Because ummm? she saw. xD When she was still inside Babidi was sharing information, when she's outside she's checking everything happening around her. Because she's alone against everyone, she's aware. It is kind of what I said. At least I was on the right track. Thanks for the info.
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Post by supergojita3 on Dec 8, 2021 18:17:05 GMT
I also have to thank you for your hard work. You're welcome. My question was brought up and answered ... sort of. I asked, what would have happened, if Babidi was killed. And the answer would have decided, if Cell was criticized rightfully or not. Because, as we don't know if Bra would have stopped to attack everybody, it's not that stupid to actually attack her with a sneak attack rather than Babidi himself. In that case, Cell's actions would have been logical and in the best interest of the group and not only his own. But I guess, we'll never know. You're right on this point. But something tell me that Salagir didn't thought about it that deep like you & me. xD ...You know what? Looking at those pics again, I think I was wrong. U16 is on the left side in the first few panels, while U18 is on the right side. U16 Gohan got warped in with his back facing U18, and his mouth facing U16. As that's the case, it makes sense that U16 Piccolo would have given him one, and not U18. U16 Piccolo would, indeed, have two for Bra to steal. So, there's no plot hole there. But, looking through reminded me of another good question to ask. "How in the world did she know about Cell's nucleus?": How does she know Cell better than the guy that actually fought him? How does she know about something Cell never demonstrated till the actual revolt? supergojita3 Son Pan Salagir answered this question before. Well, kind of. 😅🤣 Q. How did Bra know about Cell's nucleus during the Majin Rebellion?
Salagir: Ahhhh? She looked at the internet? I would say that people are telling stories to their children. Goten, Trunks, little Bra little Pan, they know a little about Freeza even though they never saw him. I'm sure that the story about Gohan fighting Cell has been told to the family several times. So yes, it's common knowledge.
Asura: Maybe He's talking about how Bra knows about Cell's nucleus surviving Gohan's attack or something like that?
Salagir: She saw what happened to Gohan. Because ummm? she saw. xD When she was still inside Babidi was sharing information, when she's outside she's checking everything happening around her. Because she's alone against everyone, she's aware. so she saw the events unfold, and babadi shared info. ok. thats good enough.
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Post by oung on Dec 8, 2021 22:03:30 GMT
I...don't think Salagir was serious when said that! Salagir stated his reasons in another Twitch: These are his actual reasons though. "We need stronk women in DBZ". Whether he's serious or not when calls himself a former misogynist doesn't change that extremely arbitrary and short-sighted choice. I already answered why the "but Goku was always strong lmao" copout relies on a tonally deaf and intellectually dishonest analysis. Even the Toei (!!) had the decency to make Bardock relatively weak for most of the movie, and ultimately irrelevant in his people (and son's) fate. If Salagir was writing the Bardock OVA, he'd be super strong on top of his future sight powers and super important overall, and you'd have to accept it because "well it makes sense, doesn't it? He's strong and he has powers so of course this would result in him achieving things. When was DBZ about failing anyway? You never complained when Goku did things."
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Post by Skarr on Dec 9, 2021 16:10:28 GMT
Even the Toei (!!) had the decency to make Bardock relatively weak for most of the movie, and ultimately irrelevant in his people (and son's) fate. In the Japanese dub, Bardock's power level was 10,000 so a low-class who worked his way up. I was never a fan of Hanasia being an elite but I don't think DBM changed anything about Bardock's power level from the OVA. [/quote]
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Post by oung on Dec 9, 2021 18:47:33 GMT
Even the Toei (!!) had the decency to make Bardock relatively weak for most of the movie, and ultimately irrelevant in his people (and son's) fate. In the Japanese dub, Bardock's power level was 10,000 so a low-class who worked his way up. I was never a fan of Hanasia being an elite but I don't think DBM changed anything about Bardock's power level from the OVA. He gets there after a few zenkai at the end of the movie, that's why I said "for most of the movie". Even with 10 000 he doesn't win any fight other than the two Freeza soldiers.
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Post by Skarr on Dec 9, 2021 19:55:39 GMT
He gets there after a few zenkai at the end of the movie, that's why I said "for most of the movie". Even with 10 000 he doesn't win any fight other than the two Freeza soldiers. I remember him killing Dodoria's squad then a few dozen Freeza soldiers on his way to Freeza's ship. I don't know I never had an issue with Bardock since U3 is supposed to be the alternate universe that he managed to survive.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 12, 2021 19:00:42 GMT
He gets there after a few zenkai at the end of the movie, that's why I said "for most of the movie". Even with 10 000 he doesn't win any fight other than the two Freeza soldiers. I remember him killing Dodoria's squad then a few dozen Freeza soldiers on his way to Freeza's ship. I don't know I never had an issue with Bardock since U3 is supposed to be the alternate universe that he managed to survive. As far as the movie goes Bardock took down a squadron lead by Dodoria, they were implied if not outright stated to be some of Freeza’s elite soldiers. Bardock easily defeating them and needing to be put down by Dodoria was a big deal. Most of that movie was about how Bardock and his team of low level Saiyans were rapid raise in power was starting to allow them successfully complete missions expected of elite Saiyans. When Dodoria hears Saiyans conquered the planet where Bardock got his future vision ability from he assumed it was elite Saiyans who took the planet, implying that was something they didn’t expect low level Saiyans to take even in Great Ape form. That discussion is implied to have factored into Freeza’s decision to eliminate most of the Saiyan race for fear how a unified Saiyan race might be able to do if they were allowed to grow stronger unchecked. Bardock only received one zenkai in the movie proper, but we learned he came badly wounded in the past many times and as a result was receiving zenkai boost as a result. That was leading Bardock to becoming one of the strongest Saiyans of his time period. I would say even at the start of the movie it was possible Bardock was already on par with elites thanks to all the zenkai he had been getting. Bardock was made a notable and one of the strongest Saiyans thanks to Toei’s movie. I don’t think Bardock of DBM is much different in terms of being established as a low level who worked his way up. I think Bardock being this strong gets grandfathered in because it was established a long time ago that most fans accepted Bardock was as strong as an elite. When the narrative also tries to establish Goku’s mother is the same way who had no past establishment in either the manga, anime, or anime movie it is harder to sell because then it means Goku had two powerful parents despite how both he and Raditz were born a low level class warriors of the race. It can become a step too far for people’s willingness to suspend their disbelief. Makes Goku’s Saiyan family more special, which for a lot of people defeats the low level surpasses the elite story. Personally feel like that is more Vegeta’s baggage than Goku’s though. Goku never seemed to care about the caste system and just kept on doing what he had always been doing, working hard and eager to face new challenges.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 12, 2021 19:30:11 GMT
I have a few Grand Supreme Kai questions for the next Q&A.
1. How strong is Grand Supreme Kai? 2. Why didn’t he try to help the others fight Babidi’s forces? 3. If Grand Supreme Kai is a weak fighter how did he manage to trigger Buff Buu’s absorption? 4. Why did he choose not to have Grand Supreme Kai join the fight? Even if Grand is weak and would have gotten killed easily why not have him dying alongside the other Supreme Kai trying to fight Dabura or to try to help against Majin Bra with the others and get killed easily like the Piccolos?
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Post by Skarr on Dec 13, 2021 19:16:51 GMT
When the narrative also tries to establish Goku’s mother is the same way who had no past establishment in either the manga, anime, or anime movie it is harder to sell because then it means Goku had two powerful parents despite how both he and Raditz were born a low level class warriors of the race. It can become a step too far for people’s willingness to suspend their disbelief. Makes Goku’s Saiyan family more special, which for a lot of people defeats the low level surpasses the elite story. Personally feel like that is more Vegeta’s baggage than Goku’s though. Goku never seemed to care about the caste system and just kept on doing what he had always been doing, working hard and eager to face new challenges. I didn't mind Hanasia as a female elite but I thought her being Goku's mother was unnecessary. Some old headcanon was that Goku's mother was already dead since she wasn't brought up in the Bardock special or that Raditz and Kakarotto had different mothers and just two random Saiyan women he slept. Vegeta was the prince and we never found out who his mother was so it's something that probably didn't matter to them and she might not have been considered the queen. By the time Vegeta met Goku, he had already surpassed all the Saiyans on Planet Vegeta so he only had that low class Saiyan status in his first encounter with another Saiyan earlier in the saga. Bardock special was written during the Freeza saga so Goku's progress might've inspired the creation of Bardock because he was also a low class who was moving up the ranks. The only ones aware he was nearing King Vegeta's power were the doctors healing him so most of the other Saiyans might've still assumed he was a low class because they were all killed shorter after.
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Post by Blaze on Dec 20, 2021 1:13:11 GMT
I am so, so disappointed that we didn't get one of those panels of Vegeta blasting away Cell's body. That was a major issue in the fight, just having Cell die off screen. And to think we were so close to that being fixed?? Ugghhhh so frustrating.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Jan 8, 2022 18:40:04 GMT
I still have quite the sore spot for the Cell vs Vegeta fight and think how it went/ended was pretty lame so not trying to defend how dbm ended Cell by any means. Also disliked how Bra knew to wait and murk Cells core some how but I suppose it’s possible that Bra found out about Cells core weakness because they were both Majinzed at the time he revealed that info. Not sure if it’s just Babadi or if all Majins are linked and can see telepathically what the others are doing if need be so she may have had some more insight or acquired the info about Cell for that reason. Though Bra still acted surprised and even had her arm blown off first when he showed up in the rebellion so that may not be completely the case as I don’t see why she was taken by surprise. Unless it was just a rookie mistake on her part and she got so caught up in the fighting that she forgot about Cell.
There’s also the “I was told all about you in my universe” excuse, that’s an easy fall back to why she could have known more info about Cell but I just don’t see Gohan completely breaking down Cells biology to her when he or whoever else told her the story of the Cell saga. Would expect more of a “I hit him with a really big blast to kill him for good” explanation with maybe some cliff notes of how things got to that point being more likely. So I just chalk Bra knowing to wait and kill his core to story’s sake, Cell was built up so much unfortunately just to be knocked down like a punk so it wouldn’t surprise me.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 16, 2022 20:56:21 GMT
Depending on how this chapter ends I might have more questions about Grand Supreme Kai. I want to try to reserve my judgement until I see more, but I have to be honest I really do not like the direction DBM has taken with the character so far. Even if the enthralled Buu fan thing is an act to buy Buu time to escape his seal without being sent back I feel like there could have been better ways to stall for time or the very least make him more put together as a god and leader.
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