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Post by Smilingblade3 on Jan 17, 2023 21:54:32 GMT
While I do enjoy the whole switching between regular SSJ and Grade 3 since it's unique, don't get me wrong, is there a reason as to why Trunks from U12 doesn't have Super Saiyan 2? It would have made his clash with U18 Vegeta much better if they would have been on relatively equal footing.
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Post by عمار on Jan 18, 2023 19:33:20 GMT
It's indeed a shame. I think Salagir didn't think much about it, but it really made Trunks really weak compare to the others.
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 21, 2023 2:10:49 GMT
While I do enjoy the whole switching between regular SSJ and Grade 3 since it's unique, don't get me wrong, is there a reason as to why Trunks from U12 doesn't have Super Saiyan 2? It would have made his clash with U18 Vegeta much better if they would have been on relatively equal footing. I think it is disappointing because he shouldn't be too far off from getting SSJ2 that he couldn't unlock it for 10 years. Plus the Future Majin Arc could have been written better this way too (Like what DBS did, DBS did something better than DBM and it was the Future Majin Arc).
Also I think Vegeta would have still won with just SSJ2 unless Trunks really trained hard for 10 years which he didn't cause of rebuilding and such.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 21, 2023 19:26:16 GMT
I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1. If we take DBM universe into account U18 Vegeta didn’t achieve SS2 on his own even after seven years of training. He needed Babidi to helped him achieve it. Since Salagir went with that interpretation of Vegeta needing Babidi’s power up to help him achieve SS2 in his story even after seven years of intense training it makes sense why he thinks U12 Trunks who wouldn’t be able to train at that level due to also needing to help rebuild his world probably wouldn’t have SS2 under his belt yet.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Trunks is close to reaching SS2 though. If 16 was destroyed or someone he cared about died I could see U13 Trunks rage pushing him into SS2. I would have loved SS2 Trunks though. I can respect Salagir tried to combat the criticism of Super Saiyan levels getting too easy to unlock in the original series. U18 Pan not unlocking SS1 until the tournament is a good example of making SS levels harder to unlock. Even U16 Bra only got as far as SS2 and doesn’t have SS3.
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 21, 2023 20:39:08 GMT
I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1. If we take DBM universe into account U18 Vegeta didn’t achieve SS2 on his own even after seven years of training. He needed Babidi to helped him achieve it. Since Salagir went with that interpretation of Vegeta needing Babidi’s power up to help him achieve SS2 in his story even after seven years of intense training it makes sense why he thinks U12 Trunks who wouldn’t be able to train at that level due to also needing to help rebuild his world probably wouldn’t have SS2 under his belt yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trunks is close to reaching SS2 though. If 16 was destroyed or someone he cared about died I could see U13 Trunks rage pushing him into SS2. I would have loved SS2 Trunks though. I can respect Salagir tried to combat the criticism of Super Saiyan levels getting too easy to unlock in the original series. U18 Pan not unlocking SS1 until the tournament is a good example of making SS levels harder to unlock. Even U16 Bra only got as far as SS2 and doesn’t have SS3. Idk, I think Bra could be closer to SSJ3 than we think (though it would be crap if that was true given she just learned to control SSJ2). Vegetto and Gast seemed to hint at it being possible she reaches that level before the end of the story
(Hopefully if it happens it isn't "SSJ3 Bra somehow beats an angry SSJ2 Vegetto" because that would be so much crap, imagine the shitstorm in the comments section too, I think it would be nuclear war).
As for U12 Trunks, I mean he did do some training I imagine, but maybe your right, he just took that long to help rebuild (but really, the dude's got superhuman strength and speed and rebuilding is taking that long? There are many legitimate reasons for this of course). U18 Pan not unlocking SSJ before DBM would make sense, except U16 Pan also somehow unlocked SSJ while her U18 counterpart didn't.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 22, 2023 20:09:21 GMT
I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1. If we take DBM universe into account U18 Vegeta didn’t achieve SS2 on his own even after seven years of training. He needed Babidi to helped him achieve it. Since Salagir went with that interpretation of Vegeta needing Babidi’s power up to help him achieve SS2 in his story even after seven years of intense training it makes sense why he thinks U12 Trunks who wouldn’t be able to train at that level due to also needing to help rebuild his world probably wouldn’t have SS2 under his belt yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trunks is close to reaching SS2 though. If 16 was destroyed or someone he cared about died I could see U13 Trunks rage pushing him into SS2. I would have loved SS2 Trunks though. I can respect Salagir tried to combat the criticism of Super Saiyan levels getting too easy to unlock in the original series. U18 Pan not unlocking SS1 until the tournament is a good example of making SS levels harder to unlock. Even U16 Bra only got as far as SS2 and doesn’t have SS3. Idk, I think Bra could be closer to SSJ3 than we think (though it would be crap if that was true given she just learned to control SSJ2). Vegetto and Gast seemed to hint at it being possible she reaches that level before the end of the story
(Hopefully if it happens it isn't "SSJ3 Bra somehow beats an angry SSJ2 Vegetto" because that would be so much crap, imagine the shitstorm in the comments section too, I think it would be nuclear war).
As for U12 Trunks, I mean he did do some training I imagine, but maybe your right, he just took that long to help rebuild (but really, the dude's got superhuman strength and speed and rebuilding is taking that long? There are many legitimate reasons for this of course). U18 Pan not unlocking SSJ before DBM would make sense, except U16 Pan also somehow unlocked SSJ while her U18 counterpart didn't.
I didn’t mean to imply Trunks did no training at all. He obviously did based on what the current U12 special showed us and how seamless he could switch between SS1 and USS. Trunks has trained and gotten stronger. That is why I think he put up as top of a fight as he did against U18 Vegeta. What I meant is Trunks has to divide his time up with helping to rebuild and run his world and training. This special showed us Trunks had a leadership role in his world as well. They are just now getting things back up and running to before 17 and 18’s rampage. That is a decade. Trunks cannot really devote his time to both his jobs nonstop, so he has to split his time up accordingly. Compare U12 Trunks who both trains and has other responsibilities to his world to U18 Vegeta. Vegeta doesn’t have a job and he has plenty of free time to train and spend time with his family. I think it is fair to say in DBM that U18 Vegeta had more time to train than U12 Trunks. Vegeta had more time and could train as intensely as he wanted. Despite having those advantages over U12 Trunks Vegeta still didn’t reach SS2 in seven year time span in DBM continuity (whereas in canon there is still a strong case Vegeta got SS2) without Babidi’s help. Trunks not getting it in a decade isn’t that crazy for DBM, especially since he had to divide his time with training and other things to help restore his world. Doesn’t have the chance to train nonstop for weeks on end like his dad and Goku do. Trunks is stronger, but I think Salagir wanted to try to keep Super Saiyan levels at their original difficulty. I think that is why we see so many universes with Saiyans all varying in what Super Saiyan levels they have based on the conditions in their universe. In U18 Pan lived in an era of peace and stays on Earth. Even though she was strong enough to transform she never had the conditions to make her mad enough to trigger the transformations like her grandfather and father did. Whereas in U16 Pan traveled around with Vegetto and Bra when she reached a certain age. She not only trained, but fought more life and death battles while helping her grandpa and aunt. She likely saw things that would cause her to get mad and trigger the SS1 transformation. U16 Pan may never have been in actual danger since Vegetto is around to step in if anything happened, but he likely let her experience actual battles against foes her level that were terrorizing a far off planet to help her get stronger. Whereas in U18 Goku isn’t a space enforcer and can only train Pan with sparring since Earth has been at peace for 20 years now. U16 Pan experiences with space helped her unlock SS1 whereas U18 Pan only had Earth as her experience and as a result no real conflict made it harder for Pan to develop that rage needed for SS1 transformation. Two Pans with two different life experiences resulted in one turning SS1 faster. With other universes we see similar circumstances. In U13 both Nappa and Raditz haven’t reached SS1 yet despite having 30 years of time to train. They lack something Vegeta and Kakarot had that drove them to become Super Saiyans.
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Jan 23, 2023 14:44:56 GMT
"I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1." Yet U13 Vegeta somehow unlocked SS2 on his own?!
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Jan 23, 2023 14:49:02 GMT
I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1. If we take DBM universe into account U18 Vegeta didn’t achieve SS2 on his own even after seven years of training. He needed Babidi to helped him achieve it. Since Salagir went with that interpretation of Vegeta needing Babidi’s power up to help him achieve SS2 in his story even after seven years of intense training it makes sense why he thinks U12 Trunks who wouldn’t be able to train at that level due to also needing to help rebuild his world probably wouldn’t have SS2 under his belt yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trunks is close to reaching SS2 though. If 16 was destroyed or someone he cared about died I could see U13 Trunks rage pushing him into SS2. I would have loved SS2 Trunks though. I can respect Salagir tried to combat the criticism of Super Saiyan levels getting too easy to unlock in the original series. U18 Pan not unlocking SS1 until the tournament is a good example of making SS levels harder to unlock. Even U16 Bra only got as far as SS2 and doesn’t have SS3. Idk, I think Bra could be closer to SSJ3 than we think (though it would be crap if that was true given she just learned to control SSJ2). Vegetto and Gast seemed to hint at it being possible she reaches that level before the end of the story
(Hopefully if it happens it isn't "SSJ3 Bra somehow beats an angry SSJ2 Vegetto" because that would be so much crap, imagine the shitstorm in the comments section too, I think it would be nuclear war).
As for U12 Trunks, I mean he did do some training I imagine, but maybe your right, he just took that long to help rebuild (but really, the dude's got superhuman strength and speed and rebuilding is taking that long? There are many legitimate reasons for this of course). U18 Pan not unlocking SSJ before DBM would make sense, except U16 Pan also somehow unlocked SSJ while her U18 counterpart didn't.
Trunks also knows about the Room of Spirit and Time on the lookout. You're telling me that even 10 years later he couldn't have spent another day inside the chamber to train with #16? I'd imagine Salagir would make it so that without a Guardian, the room didn't work, but still an explanation would be nice as to why he never bothered to use it.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 23, 2023 15:01:28 GMT
Idk, I think Bra could be closer to SSJ3 than we think (though it would be crap if that was true given she just learned to control SSJ2). Vegetto and Gast seemed to hint at it being possible she reaches that level before the end of the story
(Hopefully if it happens it isn't "SSJ3 Bra somehow beats an angry SSJ2 Vegetto" because that would be so much crap, imagine the shitstorm in the comments section too, I think it would be nuclear war).
As for U12 Trunks, I mean he did do some training I imagine, but maybe your right, he just took that long to help rebuild (but really, the dude's got superhuman strength and speed and rebuilding is taking that long? There are many legitimate reasons for this of course). U18 Pan not unlocking SSJ before DBM would make sense, except U16 Pan also somehow unlocked SSJ while her U18 counterpart didn't.
Trunks also knows about the Room of Spirit and Time on the lookout. You're telling me that even 10 years later he couldn't have spent another day inside the chamber to train with #16? I'd imagine Salagir would make it so that without a Guardian, the room didn't work, but still an explanation would be nice as to why he never bothered to use it. Trunks used up his two days. Remember in Cell arc Vegeta originally wanted to use the whole week to get ready for the Cell Games. Piccolo told him he can’t do that. Everyone can only use it 2 days safely. If it used more than that the door will disappear on them and they will be trapped there. DBM and Super had Dende modify the room to use longer, but in U12 there is no guardian/god to do that. Trunks won’t risk it use it in his time.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 23, 2023 15:09:06 GMT
"I think it is a combination of Trunks having to divide his time with helping to rebuild the world cuts into his training time, Trunks having less time than go by for him than the main universe, and Salagir wanting to keep Super Saiyan levels hard to achieve. Noticed how in U13 Kakarot hadn’t gone SS2 until Babidi unlocked it for him. Nappa and Raditz haven’t even unlocked SS1." Yet U13 Vegeta somehow unlocked SS2 on his own?! Apparently. It seems like DBM the whole Super Saiyan levels vary depending on universe and circumstances. Somehow U13 Vegeta got strong enough to unlock SS2 and was strong enough to reach SS3 since he did it at the tournament while the rest of his crew is super weak. Perhaps Broly in their universe is what pushed Vegeta to reach SS2. Who knows. Vegeta is the only one in U13 to have reached that high while his subordinates are still much weaker. It does fit with the idea Salagir is trying to make SS levels hard to reach again by only having one or two characters in a universe having unlocked all 3 levels. I guess U12 Trunks not reaching SS2 is just down to he hasn’t reached yet and needs to train harder. I am sure Trunks is strong enough to reach it at this point. He just needs the right trigger.
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Post by jbame on Jan 28, 2023 23:53:11 GMT
Goku and Vegeta spend 99% of their time training or fighting, it's logical they'd get SSJ2 in a few years. U13 Vegeta likely trains a ton too, but being an emperor takes a lot of his time so he hasn't reached SSJ3 on his own (we can also assume that his universe had lower stakes than U18 so he never had to get strong out of necessity)
We've seen that this Trunks is still training, but he is busy rebuilding the world so he can't train so much. Also, he only had 10 years to train after the Cell saga. Goku, Vegeta and U13 vegeta had 30. More than triple the time.
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