??????
|
Post by Bartek on Dec 12, 2016 19:26:36 GMT
In no story order
Bojack vs Pan - Pan goes SSJ2 and mops the floor with blowjack Pan vs Cacarrot - Pan goes SSJ2 from the start and mops the floor with Cacarrot Veget vs Broli - Veget yawns and Broli is reduced to ashes Zangya vs Bra - Zangya shuts the hell up about Pan's death and she survives the fight with Bra Videl vs Ginyu-Cold - Mystic Videl owns Ginyu Goku vs FLapis - Lapis tells Goku that he killed FGohan in his universe, which pissed Goku off, who kills Lapis with a kamehameha Cyborg Yamcha vs FLazuli - Yamcha beats Lazuli, but spares her life, Lazuli quickly changes to a good woman and kills her brother Toriyama vs raichi - Toriyama mops the floor with raichi
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Dec 17, 2016 22:06:49 GMT
If Pan and Kakarot outcome changed that means we would have gotten Vegeta and Pan match instead. Vegeta has a soft spot for Pan. That match could have been a interesting match. Pan trying to prove to her Uncle Vegeta she is worthy and Vegeta helping Pan out by being a tough mentor.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on Dec 17, 2016 22:18:14 GMT
If Pan and Kakarot outcome changed that means we would have gotten Vegeta and Pan match instead. Vegeta has a soft spot for Pan. That match could have been a interesting match. Pan trying to prove to her Uncle Vegeta she is worthy and Vegeta helping Pan out by being a tough mentor. I actually think it'd have been a lot like Vegeta vs. Cabba in DBS.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Dec 17, 2016 23:55:20 GMT
If Pan and Kakarot outcome changed that means we would have gotten Vegeta and Pan match instead. Vegeta has a soft spot for Pan. That match could have been a interesting match. Pan trying to prove to her Uncle Vegeta she is worthy and Vegeta helping Pan out by being a tough mentor. I actually think it'd have been a lot like Vegeta vs. Cabba in DBS. I agree. That was one of the things I actually liked about U6 Tournament. It would be nice to see that done with Pan, since there is more history there between Pan and Vegeta.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Bartek on Dec 18, 2016 6:25:39 GMT
If Pan and Kakarot outcome changed that means we would have gotten Vegeta and Pan match instead. Vegeta has a soft spot for Pan. That match could have been a interesting match. Pan trying to prove to her Uncle Vegeta she is worthy and Vegeta helping Pan out by being a tough mentor. Pan would mop the floor with Vegeta Pan = Mystic Gohan's child Vegeta <<<<<<<<<<<<< Kid Buu Kid Bu <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mystic Gohan
|
|
??????
|
Post by Xeno Black on Dec 20, 2016 17:02:07 GMT
There are quite a few number of matches I would change, but I would list the top two in my list:
Gotenks Vs Neko Majin - This fight was simply a giant joke with no real substance to it. While I am fine with Neko Majin being stronger than SSJ Gotenks (despite it already being quite a stretch), I wish Gotenks was more serious and managed to actually hurt the cat than being beaten up very easily. Hell in the novel Gotenks was nearly defeated, and only won when Neko decided to quit to retrieve the earnings of a flawed betting system. If Gotenks became either a SSJ2 or SSJ3, things would have been different battle wise.
Gotenks Vs Zen Buu - I just wish the battle was way longer with Gotenks fighting against Zen Buu before using his Ultra Armor. A close match such as this would have been dope as shit. And if Gotenks used some of his original moves and utilized Vegito's unique Majin Buu kiai technique, it could potentially made Gotenks to winner if used correctly. But if Buu also absorbed Gotenks, his power would easily crush Vegito in a heartbeat. So many unique things could have been spun, but we unfortunately only got the bare minimum.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Bartek on Dec 21, 2016 14:01:31 GMT
There are quite a few number of matches I would change, but I would list the top two in my list: Gotenks Vs Neko Majin - This fight was simply a giant joke with no real substance to it. While I am fine with Neko Majin being stronger than SSJ Gotenks (despite it already being quite a stretch), I wish Gotenks was more serious and managed to actually hurt the cat than being beaten up very easily. Hell in the novel Gotenks was nearly defeated, and only won when Neko decided to quit to retrieve the earnings of a flawed betting system. If Gotenks became either a SSJ2 or SSJ3, things would have been different battle wise. Um it's Z, or you should called Gotenks "saiyan brat fusion", i don't know why Salagir reffered to Z as "Neko Majin" (his race name)
|
|
??????
|
Post by thejakub on Dec 21, 2016 22:31:36 GMT
First Pan should have won everything easily, then Gotenks - what is wrong with this topic, is this some kind of a fanboys paradise?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Dec 22, 2016 3:24:30 GMT
First Pan should have won everything easily, then Gotenks - what is wrong with this topic, is this some kind of a fanboys paradise? In fairness Xeno's comment was more of changing the fights so Gotenks wasn't treated as a joke, not win everything easily.
|
|
??????
|
Post by thejakub on Dec 22, 2016 3:35:02 GMT
First Pan should have won everything easily, then Gotenks - what is wrong with this topic, is this some kind of a fanboys paradise? In fairness Xeno's comment was more of changing the fights so Gotenks wasn't treated as a joke, not win everything easily. Oh right, I read that post yesterday, but I commented it the day after and apparently didn't remember it that well. Nevertheless, I see the alarming trend here and Bartek's posts (also in other threads) look like some bad trolling.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Dismaned on Mar 22, 2021 23:43:41 GMT
The South Supreme Kai vs Fat Buu match. He goes in and actually finds himself and the Grand Kaioshin, and pulls them out. He escapes with them and Fat Buu reverts right to Kid Buu. They fight and Buu is dq'ed for breaking some rule or South forfeits first. Then either Zen Buu explains to his younger self what's up or Vegito beats him to the point of exhaustion then hands him over to Babidi to seal or boss around. Skipping over Buu's rampage, we get Buu giving Kid Buu some mental stability and maybe a quick run down of the tournament rules while he's helping everyone. Then Kid Buu vs Uub is the next fight. Uub has a tougher fight but still manages to win since Kid Buu wouldn't even be as tricky as Fat Buu was. And while all that's happening, the U11 Supreme Kais and Babidi are not having a good time together :V Zen buu having a little prodigy moment like Uub the goku in him going crazy with the idea of turning this kid who has immense power and teaching how to use it correctly
|
|
??????
|
Post by kinporte on Apr 4, 2021 14:40:22 GMT
I think the most disappointing fight is Cooler vs Trunks. It’s the only fight for Cooler, i don’t want him to win, but just demonstrate that his transformation isn’t just for show and that it is a big factor in a fight.
|
|
??????
|
Post by flynt on Apr 7, 2021 19:30:31 GMT
Goten vs Kakarot.
I find the notion that Goten, someone who mastered Super Saiyan, and trained by his father to be weaker than an evil version of his father, who, never received training in any shape or form, outside of Grandpa Gohan as a child. And is most likely only know the basic super saiyan form. I think it does him and by extension, Trunks a disservice to be weaker than Kakarot.
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on May 1, 2021 18:35:45 GMT
Kakarot vs. Vegeta could've and should've been a better match than what it was. An inverse of the legendary Saiyan Saga encounter only with the hero & villain roles reversed and Kakarot having just obtained Super Saiyan 2 to make it interesting. Instead, it is a one shot in a story that already has too many one shot matches and nothing of interest was gained from it.
Especially sad given Vegeta seemed to be looking forward to it in earlier chapters and the interesting look into Kakarot's broken mind.
But the biggest letdown was Gast vs. Dr. Raichi. Two people who were the last of their race, one dedicated to justice & peace the other vengeance as well as a guy who had been built up to possible be on Vegito/Zen Buu Tier vs. Raichi's seemingly infinite army of ghosts. It could've been a fantastic character piece for both and an epic battle in scale. Instead, just two ghosts with Gast exposed as just around SSj3 tier in power with him only winning cause Raichi was an idiot who can't leave a ghost to guard and Hatchiyack being a literal carbon copy of his special counterpart with the same exact weakness and nothing of interest to him. Whole thing was a massive disappointment.
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on Aug 26, 2021 0:09:42 GMT
Well with recent stuff to factor in, Goku vs. Uub.
Basically extend the beginning "feeling up" section a bit, have both show off a few techniques or here making some spectators think both are going intense out of the gate, only for them to make the warm up comment to shock a couple of them. Then when we get to Max Kaio-Ken vs. SSj3, I would have Uub here show a few moves from Goku; maybe a Kamehameha clash between the two, show Uub putting his own spin on something (Maybe his variant of the Meteor Crash) with Goku countering perhaps anticipating some strikes and IDK maybe displaying a new technique or something (Maybe a Kamehameha variant) to show he is just a slight step ahead. Have some spectators comment on the power and skill on display before we get to the Transcendent Kaio-Ken bit.
When we get to the Transcendent Kaio-Ken, I'd keep it a one sided squash with Uub just hulking through anything Goku does. But I WOULD HAVE GOKU TRY SOMETHING, new techniques, just spamming ki, instant transmission to get distance anything he can to try and survive this onslaught but Uub's power is just too explosive as he batters Goku while his own body is breaking much to the shock of spectators. Eventually Goku fires a full power Kamehameha that Uub tanks as he charges an explosive blast that smacks Goku in the face leading both to crash down and Goku to barley win standing up with Uub's body too damaged from the Kaio-Ken to do the same.
Just make the match feel more like an epic, make it feel like a true culmination of a teacher and student trading blows and Uub's ascension from pupil to true rival. Have other universes seem to give a shit and comment rather than make it seem unimportant. This fight needed to be more than what it was.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Solus on Aug 26, 2021 16:04:20 GMT
I think the most disappointing fight is Cooler vs Trunks. It’s the only fight for Cooler, i don’t want him to win, but just demonstrate that his transformation isn’t just for show and that it is a big factor in a fight. I think, Cooler had his moment in his special, where he was portrayed much stronger than in the original movie. In DBM Goku had to go SSJ to deal with Cooler's base form. Also Cooler in his augmented form managed to really hurt Goku, whereas in the movie he was almost oneshotted after Goku transformed. So the special really did him good. But what would you expect from a below-Cyborg-level opponent against Trunks who even before the time skip from Cell Saga to DBM tournament was at perfect Cell's level? These are several tiers separating the two. Cooler could have had a good fight against the Cyborgs from U14, because in their weakened state they might have been in the same ball park as him. But against Trunks? Come on ...
godjacob About Gast vs. Raichi: I suppose you haven't been around here, when this fight was aired, so you couldn't read the discussions. Most people had the same opinion like you, but let me ask you some questions, that might change your mind.
Of all the ghosts Raichi had at his disposal, which one do you think would have made a difference against Gast? Besides Vegeta and Broly there were no ghosts that even remotely stood a chance against Gast, which was known by Raichi, as Cell Jr. was by far his strongest ghost before U13 Vegeta died, and that Cell Jr. had died because Gast oneshottet him. So yeah, why bother messing around? It wouldn't have made sense in-universe and especially not from the writers perspective as the pacing is already slow as it is.
I'll give you that, they could have talked more. And I mean a lot more. I also admit, that Raichi not being able to control Broly is major bullshit and super lazy writing for creating the diversion Gast needed to appear behind Raichi.
However. Where would you have placed Vegeta, if you were in Raichi's place? People have been arguing that Vegeta should have been nearer to Raichi, so he could have reacted faster, which seems logical - if you ignore that Vegeta's blind spot would only increase the nearer is to the one thing he can't shoot or punch through. If Gast managed to go undetected (neither by sight nor by ki sensing) and appear directly behind Raichi - however he did that - then Vegeta couldn't have done shit even if he only stood half a meter away from Raichi. Because Vegeta always would have to go around the orb to attack Gast. But as Gast and Vegeta are as fast as each other, it costs Gast less time to attack the orb than it would cost Vegeta to circumvent the orb. So that's that. Now you might argue that Raichi could have spammed his ghosts all over the place just to build a (semi) living wall around him, so that Gast couldn't have gone unnoticed or they would even stop him long enough for Vegeta to intervene. But you have seen how Gast casually shot through the namekians, as if he teleported? Not even the Cell Jr. would have made a difference, if Gast just popped up and went straight for the orb.
I admit, that all the possible outcomes of every possible attempt on both sides are hard to overview. But this isn't One Piece where every single strategy is tried out and fails until Luffy just punches his opponent really hard. DBM tries to be a little bit more realistic in regards of how chaotic fights are and how no-bullshit-attitudes play out in a fight.
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on Aug 26, 2021 17:03:41 GMT
I think the most disappointing fight is Cooler vs Trunks. It’s the only fight for Cooler, i don’t want him to win, but just demonstrate that his transformation isn’t just for show and that it is a big factor in a fight. I think, Cooler had his moment in his special, where he was portrayed much stronger than in the original movie. In DBM Goku had to go SSJ to deal with Cooler's base form. Also Cooler in his augmented form managed to really hurt Goku, whereas in the movie he was almost oneshotted after Goku transformed. So the special really did him good. But what would you expect from a below-Cyborg-level opponent against Trunks who even before the time skip from Cell Saga to DBM tournament was at perfect Cell's level? These are several tiers separating the two. Cooler could have had a good fight against the Cyborgs from U14, because in their weakened state they might have been in the same ball park as him. But against Trunks? Come on ... godjacob About Gast vs. Raichi: I suppose you haven't been around here, when this fight was aired, so you couldn't read the discussions. Most people had the same opinion like you, but let me ask you some questions, that might change your mind. Of all the ghosts Raichi had at his disposal, which one do you think would have made a difference against Gast? Besides Vegeta and Broly there were no ghosts that even remotely stood a chance against Gast, which was known by Raichi, as Cell Jr. was by far his strongest ghost before U13 Vegeta died, and that Cell Jr. had died because Gast oneshottet him. So yeah, why bother messing around? It wouldn't have made sense in-universe and especially not from the writers perspective as the pacing is already slow as it is. By that thin logic why does Raichi bother to summon any ghost at all? Why not just say go straight to Hatchiyack? Or just spam Broly as his only ghost in situations? We saw the reason why he did it against Vegeta, to wear down his foe. Vegeta was laughably stronger than anything Raichi could throw at him (Even Broly before he could rise in power) but he still lost cause the ghosts collectively wore him down. A few god blades alone might've been handy against Gast. And there's always potential for new ghosts we've yet to see that he could've used vs. Gast. When you are up against a monster, holding back everything but your "best" two ghosts is a stupid strategy as even a minor distraction from the other ghosts could've made Vegeta & Broly's job even easier as they were handing Gast his own ass. Not to mention from a writer's perspective make something more interesting and entertaining. I'll give you that, they could have talked more. And I mean a lot more. I also admit, that Raichi not being able to control Broly is major bullshit and super lazy writing for creating the diversion Gast needed to appear behind Raichi. However. Where would you have placed Vegeta, if you were in Raichi's place? People have been arguing that Vegeta should have been nearer to Raichi, so he could have reacted faster, which seems logical - if you ignore that Vegeta's blind spot would only increase the nearer is to the one thing he can't shoot or punch through. If Gast managed to go undetected (neither by sight nor by ki sensing) and appear directly behind Raichi - however he did that - then Vegeta couldn't have done shit even if he only stood half a meter away from Raichi. Because Vegeta always would have to go around the orb to attack Gast. But as Gast and Vegeta are as fast as each other, it costs Gast less time to attack the orb than it would cost Vegeta to circumvent the orb. So that's that. Now you might argue that Raichi could have spammed his ghosts all over the place just to build a (semi) living wall around him, so that Gast couldn't have gone unnoticed or they would even stop him long enough for Vegeta to intervene. But you have seen how Gast casually shot through the namekians, as if he teleported? Not even the Cell Jr. would have made a difference, if Gast just popped up and went straight for the orb. Yes it is, it is fucking lazy writing. No dialogue, no interesting development...the entire fight was filled with it, maybe if they had Gast use some of his magical abilities (Rather than only have a novel after the fact try to imply he did) they could've actually had him cleverly get around Broly rather than the plot bend over backwards to save Gast from a sure loss. Well for one thing Vegeta wouldn't have been the only ghost. Have Raichi make some bodyguard ghosts, and you know what they could've done? Let Raichi know Gast had flanked Broly/Vegeta with their deaths and given a closer Vegeta (Who was comically far away regardless of "blind spots") just enough time even a moment needed to get between Raichi and Gast. Show Raichi actually being cautious to a degree, and use strategy. It's not about making the guards able to stop Gast, but serve as a detection source and more importantly show Raichi taking measures to protect himself. Gast eventually getting to the castle in spite of these would've been a better reflection on Gast rather than how lazily they handled it in the fight itself. I admit, that all the possible outcomes of every possible attempt on both sides are hard to overview. But this isn't One Piece where every single strategy is tried out and fails until Luffy just punches his opponent really hard. DBM tries to be a little bit more realistic in regards of how chaotic fights are and how no-bullshit-attitudes play out in a fight.
Okay realistic is a term that can go die in a well. It is not an escape word to justify a shoddily written match, those One Piece fights are more interesting those most of what DBM has put out and to argue this fight which has a ghost disobey Raichi or everyone holding the idiot ball for it to work is "no bullshit" is frankly bullshit.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Solus on Aug 26, 2021 20:02:31 GMT
I think, Cooler had his moment in his special, where he was portrayed much stronger than in the original movie. In DBM Goku had to go SSJ to deal with Cooler's base form. Also Cooler in his augmented form managed to really hurt Goku, whereas in the movie he was almost oneshotted after Goku transformed. So the special really did him good. But what would you expect from a below-Cyborg-level opponent against Trunks who even before the time skip from Cell Saga to DBM tournament was at perfect Cell's level? These are several tiers separating the two. Cooler could have had a good fight against the Cyborgs from U14, because in their weakened state they might have been in the same ball park as him. But against Trunks? Come on ... godjacob About Gast vs. Raichi: I suppose you haven't been around here, when this fight was aired, so you couldn't read the discussions. Most people had the same opinion like you, but let me ask you some questions, that might change your mind. Of all the ghosts Raichi had at his disposal, which one do you think would have made a difference against Gast? Besides Vegeta and Broly there were no ghosts that even remotely stood a chance against Gast, which was known by Raichi, as Cell Jr. was by far his strongest ghost before U13 Vegeta died, and that Cell Jr. had died because Gast oneshottet him. So yeah, why bother messing around? It wouldn't have made sense in-universe and especially not from the writers perspective as the pacing is already slow as it is. By that thin logic why does Raichi bother to summon any ghost at all? Why not just say go straight to Hatchiyack? Or just spam Broly as his only ghost in situations? We saw the reason why he did it against Vegeta, to wear down his foe. Vegeta was laughably stronger than anything Raichi could throw at him (Even Broly before he could rise in power) but he still lost cause the ghosts collectively wore him down. A few god blades alone might've been handy against Gast. And there's always potential for new ghosts we've yet to see that he could've used vs. Gast. When you are up against a monster, holding back everything but your "best" two ghosts is a stupid strategy as even a minor distraction from the other ghosts could've made Vegeta & Broly's job even easier as they were handing Gast his own ass. Not to mention from a writer's perspective make something more interesting and entertaining. I'll give you that, they could have talked more. And I mean a lot more. I also admit, that Raichi not being able to control Broly is major bullshit and super lazy writing for creating the diversion Gast needed to appear behind Raichi. However. Where would you have placed Vegeta, if you were in Raichi's place? People have been arguing that Vegeta should have been nearer to Raichi, so he could have reacted faster, which seems logical - if you ignore that Vegeta's blind spot would only increase the nearer is to the one thing he can't shoot or punch through. If Gast managed to go undetected (neither by sight nor by ki sensing) and appear directly behind Raichi - however he did that - then Vegeta couldn't have done shit even if he only stood half a meter away from Raichi. Because Vegeta always would have to go around the orb to attack Gast. But as Gast and Vegeta are as fast as each other, it costs Gast less time to attack the orb than it would cost Vegeta to circumvent the orb. So that's that. Now you might argue that Raichi could have spammed his ghosts all over the place just to build a (semi) living wall around him, so that Gast couldn't have gone unnoticed or they would even stop him long enough for Vegeta to intervene. But you have seen how Gast casually shot through the namekians, as if he teleported? Not even the Cell Jr. would have made a difference, if Gast just popped up and went straight for the orb. Yes it is, it is fucking lazy writing. No dialogue, no interesting development...the entire fight was filled with it, maybe if they had Gast use some of his magical abilities (Rather than only have a novel after the fact try to imply he did) they could've actually had him cleverly get around Broly rather than the plot bend over backwards to save Gast from a sure loss. Well for one thing Vegeta wouldn't have been the only ghost. Have Raichi make some bodyguard ghosts, and you know what they could've done? Let Raichi know Gast had flanked Broly/Vegeta with their deaths and given a closer Vegeta (Who was comically far away regardless of "blind spots") just enough time even a moment needed to get between Raichi and Gast. Show Raichi actually being cautious to a degree, and use strategy. It's not about making the guards able to stop Gast, but serve as a detection source and more importantly show Raichi taking measures to protect himself. Gast eventually getting to the castle in spite of these would've been a better reflection on Gast rather than how lazily they handled it in the fight itself. I admit, that all the possible outcomes of every possible attempt on both sides are hard to overview. But this isn't One Piece where every single strategy is tried out and fails until Luffy just punches his opponent really hard. DBM tries to be a little bit more realistic in regards of how chaotic fights are and how no-bullshit-attitudes play out in a fight.
Okay realistic is a term that can go die in a well. It is not an escape word to justify a shoddily written match, those One Piece fights are more interesting those most of what DBM has put out and to argue this fight which has a ghost disobey Raichi or everyone holding the idiot ball for it to work is "no bullshit" is frankly bullshit. After years in this forum I still havn't found out how to separate quotes, so I'll try to adress your points all together.
First, I agree, that the fight could have been handled better. You made some good points (like summoning ghosts as a pre-warn-system), others were wrong though. I think, what you failed to realise, when you compare U13 Vegeta's fight against Raichi with Gast's fight, is that Raichi had no idea how strong Vegeta really was. So he summoned out a few of his ghosts to gauge his enemy. Then he tried it with psycho games. And lastly he summoned his strongest warriors, but even most them didn't make a difference, as Vegeta swiped half of them away with one attack. That is, what would have happened to all of them if Raichi had summoned them against Gast, since Gast is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. The wearing down tactic could only pay off, because Raichi's second league of ghosts were strong enough to hurt Vegeta. But there were no ghosts at Raichi's disposal that could have done the same with Gast - except the two he actually summoned. What you also seem to miss is the fact, that Raichi's ghosts have a respawn time, which seems to last longer than an average round takes. So if he spammed all of his ghosts pointlessly, they wouldn't be available in the next round (unless Buu recharges him again). That's why he didn't recall Broly. He couldn't resummon him, if he did.
And for the question, why Raichi didn't summon Hatchyak directly: The comic doesn't say something explicit to this, but I don't think, that Raichi could have done that. It seems that Hatchyak was some kind of final protocol. It surely would have come in handy to have such a strong fighter guarding him against Vegeta, don't you think?
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on Aug 26, 2021 20:23:26 GMT
By that thin logic why does Raichi bother to summon any ghost at all? Why not just say go straight to Hatchiyack? Or just spam Broly as his only ghost in situations? We saw the reason why he did it against Vegeta, to wear down his foe. Vegeta was laughably stronger than anything Raichi could throw at him (Even Broly before he could rise in power) but he still lost cause the ghosts collectively wore him down. A few god blades alone might've been handy against Gast. And there's always potential for new ghosts we've yet to see that he could've used vs. Gast. When you are up against a monster, holding back everything but your "best" two ghosts is a stupid strategy as even a minor distraction from the other ghosts could've made Vegeta & Broly's job even easier as they were handing Gast his own ass. Not to mention from a writer's perspective make something more interesting and entertaining. Yes it is, it is fucking lazy writing. No dialogue, no interesting development...the entire fight was filled with it, maybe if they had Gast use some of his magical abilities (Rather than only have a novel after the fact try to imply he did) they could've actually had him cleverly get around Broly rather than the plot bend over backwards to save Gast from a sure loss. Well for one thing Vegeta wouldn't have been the only ghost. Have Raichi make some bodyguard ghosts, and you know what they could've done? Let Raichi know Gast had flanked Broly/Vegeta with their deaths and given a closer Vegeta (Who was comically far away regardless of "blind spots") just enough time even a moment needed to get between Raichi and Gast. Show Raichi actually being cautious to a degree, and use strategy. It's not about making the guards able to stop Gast, but serve as a detection source and more importantly show Raichi taking measures to protect himself. Gast eventually getting to the castle in spite of these would've been a better reflection on Gast rather than how lazily they handled it in the fight itself. Okay realistic is a term that can go die in a well. It is not an escape word to justify a shoddily written match, those One Piece fights are more interesting those most of what DBM has put out and to argue this fight which has a ghost disobey Raichi or everyone holding the idiot ball for it to work is "no bullshit" is frankly bullshit. After years in this forum I still havn't found out how to separate quotes, so I'll try to adress your points all together.
First, I agree, that the fight could have been handled better. You made some good points (like summoning ghosts as a pre-warn-system), others were wrong though. I think, what you failed to realise, when you compare U13 Vegeta's fight against Raichi with Gast's fight, is that Raichi had no idea how strong Vegeta really was. So he summoned out a few of his ghosts to gauge his enemy. Then he tried it with psycho games. And lastly he summoned his strongest warriors, but even most them didn't make a difference, as Vegeta swiped half of them away with one attack. That is, what would have happened to all of them if Raichi had summoned them against Gast, since Gast is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. The wearing down tactic could only pay off, because Raichi's second league of ghosts were strong enough to hurt Vegeta. But there were no ghosts at Raichi's disposal that could have done the same with Gast - except the two he actually summoned. What you also seem to miss is the fact, that Raichi's ghosts have a respawn time, which seems to last longer than an average round takes. So if he spammed all of his ghosts pointlessly, they wouldn't be available in the next round (unless Buu recharges him again). That's why he didn't recall Broly. He couldn't resummon him, if he did.
And for the question, why Raichi didn't summon Hatchyak directly: The comic doesn't say something explicit to this, but I don't think, that Raichi could have done that. It seems that Hatchyak was some kind of final protocol. It surely would have come in handy to have such a strong fighter guarding him against Vegeta, don't you think?
Believe me I know it can be a headache XD عمار gave me a pointer for how to do it if you are curious as I am not the best teacher lol But onto your point, okay, and even if that was true how would Raichi have any better understanding of how strong Gast is vs. Vegeta? Gast has held back largely up to that point even more than Vegeta and compared to Saiyans who Raichi is quite familiar with, he would be less likely to know a fused Namek's abilities. So it isn't like Raichi would be aware how strong Gast is as a frame of reference beyond "strong enough to stomp King Piccolo." Hell how would Raichi even have known if SSj3 Vegeta would be useful given how vague Gast's powers were displayed in-universe? The point is more some support on top of the two heavys would've only been a net benefit if he had any desire to win the match. Can't worry about the next round if you don't make it there (Which he did not). The lack of mind games, the lack of swarming and the lack of well anything besides "2 ghosts" on use makes Raichi's window much more narrow rather than get the idea he tried what he could to win. Also the recharge time (Much like other specifics of the Hatchiyack machine) are vague at best and thus largely up to speculation which doesn't work to make this fight anymore satisfying. My point was more if Raichi only cared about doing the absolute "strongest" thing he could do and nothing else, he'd have smashed the Hatchiyack machine itself and just competed at Hatchiyack since after all it is "stronger" than his other ghosts. If that is the only rational or thing that matters in how you paint this fight.
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Aug 26, 2021 21:01:24 GMT
After years in this forum I still havn't found out how to separate quotes It's not hard. all you have to do is to copy & paste the "quote": Example:This is how your post look in the BBCode: And that's how it looks when it get post: After years in this forum I still havn't found out how to separate quotes, so I'll try to adress your points all together.
First, I agree, that the fight could have been handled better. You made some good points (like summoning ghosts as a pre-warn-system), others were wrong though. I think, what you failed to realise, when you compare U13 Vegeta's fight against Raichi with Gast's fight, is that Raichi had no idea how strong Vegeta really was. So he summoned out a few of his ghosts to gauge his enemy. Then he tried it with psycho games. And lastly he summoned his strongest warriors, but even most them didn't make a difference, as Vegeta swiped half of them away with one attack. That is, what would have happened to all of them if Raichi had summoned them against Gast, since Gast is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. The wearing down tactic could only pay off, because Raichi's second league of ghosts were strong enough to hurt Vegeta. But there were no ghosts at Raichi's disposal that could have done the same with Gast - except the two he actually summoned. What you also seem to miss is the fact, that Raichi's ghosts have a respawn time, which seems to last longer than an average round takes. So if he spammed all of his ghosts pointlessly, they wouldn't be available in the next round (unless Buu recharges him again). That's why he didn't recall Broly. He couldn't resummon him, if he did.
And for the question, why Raichi didn't summon Hatchyak directly: The comic doesn't say something explicit to this, but I don't think, that Raichi could have done that. It seems that Hatchyak was some kind of final protocol. It surely would have come in handy to have such a strong fighter guarding him against Vegeta, don't you think?
And that's how you separate in the BBCode: And it will look like this: After years in this forum I still havn't found out how to separate quotes, so I'll try to adress your points all together.
First, I agree, that the fight could have been handled better. You made some good points (like summoning ghosts as a pre-warn-system), others were wrong though. I think, what you failed to realise, when you compare U13 Vegeta's fight against Raichi with Gast's fight, is that Raichi had no idea how strong Vegeta really was. So he summoned out a few of his ghosts to gauge his enemy. Then he tried it with psycho games. And lastly he summoned his strongest warriors, but even most them didn't make a difference, as Vegeta swiped half of them away with one attack. That is, what would have happened to all of them if Raichi had summoned them against Gast, since Gast is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. The wearing down tactic could only pay off, because Raichi's second league of ghosts were strong enough to hurt Vegeta. But there were no ghosts at Raichi's disposal that could have done the same with Gast - except the two he actually summoned. What you also seem to miss is the fact, that Raichi's ghosts have a respawn time, which seems to last longer than an average round takes. So if he spammed all of his ghosts pointlessly, they wouldn't be available in the next round (unless Buu recharges him again). That's why he didn't recall Broly. He couldn't resummon him, if he did.
And for the question, why Raichi didn't summon Hatchyak directly: The comic doesn't say something explicit to this, but I don't think, that Raichi could have done that. It seems that Hatchyak was some kind of final protocol. It surely would have come in handy to have such a strong fighter guarding him against Vegeta, don't you think?
I hope this will help you.
|
|