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Post by Son Pan on Jan 9, 2017 3:54:05 GMT
Reboots have been done a plenty and people are getting sick of them, but after reading the good points people brought up on power level thread I thought maybe this idea could be floated around. We're all fans of DB and I'm sure a lot of us don't want to see it touched for fear of someone screwing it up or destroying it. There have been some good reboots done though that have been respectful to the original material while still doing its own thing. One of the positives I can think of for a DB reboot would be it would allow for power levels to be redone, so that strategy and techniques can still play a big part the same way it did pre-Saiyan days.
The characters and stories being re-imagined might not hurt to breed new life into the series. It doesn't need to erase the original. There is a multiverse to DB now. If a reboot were to be successful there could be a mini-crossover between the original and new one. It might breed resistance at first since the original is so beloved, but I know I think this a series where a reboot could be done well if it was constructed together and found someone with some interesting ideas.
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Post by Xeno Black on Jan 9, 2017 4:12:10 GMT
One prime example for a reboot is Npberryhill's Bringer of Death fanfic. Many changes occurred that made Vegeta number one, but still had many twists and turns that made it original enough while still being faithful to the original material. Stories like these are excellent reboots IMO.
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Post by Android 13 on Jan 9, 2017 16:10:30 GMT
Reboots have been done a plenty and people are getting sick of them, but after reading the good points people brought up on power level thread I thought maybe this idea could be floated around. We're all fans of DB and I'm sure a lot of us don't want to see it touched for fear of someone screwing it up or destroying it. There have been some good reboots done though that have been respectful to the original material while still doing its own thing. One of the positives I can think of for a DB reboot would be it would allow for power levels to be redone, so that strategy and techniques can still play a big part the same way it did pre-Saiyan days. The characters and stories being re-imagined might not hurt to breed new life into the series. It doesn't need to erase the original. There is a multiverse to DB now. If a reboot were to be successful there could be a mini-crossover between the original and new one. It might breed resistance at first since the original is so beloved, but I know I think this a series where a reboot could be done well if it was constructed together and found someone with some interesting ideas. Quoting Hail Zeon, huh? No, I personally don't want a reboot.It's pointless, we are too far in already, 99% of the reboots I have already seen are complete waste of money and effort, and Dragon Ball doesn't need such a thing.I am pretty happy with what we've got so far, yes, there are a lot of things that need fixing, but I think Dragon Ball should be building on top of what was already created. |
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 9, 2017 22:05:30 GMT
One prime example for a reboot is Npberryhill's Bringer of Death fanfic. Many changes occurred that made Vegeta number one, but still had many twists and turns that made it original enough while still being faithful to the original material. Stories like these are excellent reboots IMO. But that isn't a prime example of a reboot because it was just an alternate history fanfic. I believe what Son Pan is saying is something more akin to Ultimate Marvel being a universe reboot of Marvel, retelling a history, not just an alternate history but sensibilities being different. So I'm thinking a reboot would benefit from knowing a completed setting from the start, rather then Dragonball which kind of made things up as it went along. So I would steer away from the horribly Anime-isms of power creep. So we start with Son Goku who is superhuman, he can smash rocks, he can kill bears, but gunfire hurts him but isn't immediately lethal. This new universe wouldn't have so steep a power curve, and because of less craziness people can be useful for longer, and perhaps as people become more powerful they aren't more powerful in all attributes, so some people like maybe Ox King could actually punch Raditz and harm him considerably, but Raditz is swifter and can use energy. We don't have anyone able to shatter the moon in Dragonball or we actually do make a point of mentioning the moon is a semimystical rock and not an actual planetary body. More point is drawn to Muten Roshi's Full Power Kamehameha is truly mighty and able to even say injure Raditz, but it takes time and is very draining. But say maybe have it strong enough to shatter a building rather then a moon or mountain. Raditz would more Ironman level strong able tear apart trucks and smash through walls, but not able to toss skyscrapers. Then we jump to Frieza and he is the first being able to shatter a Planet, and he had to transform and go full power to destroy Planet Vegeta. But SSJ is on Friezas level, and even by the time they are ready to go SSJ 2 Goku's SSJ form is still less then twice as strong as Frieza. SSJ also is nowhere near a fifty times boost. Kaioken isn't a multiplier either, it boosts your power, and maybe have it at 5th level being the limit of what Goku could do, with maybe 6th level Kaio-what being reserved for Kamikaze attacks. So Goku can fight Nappa and win without Kaioken, but it is a tough battle and he has to rely off of careful counter attacks, but with Kaioken level one he is able to overwhelm him in a combo. He needs Kaioken to even lay a finger on Vegeta, with Kaioken level 2 to keep up with him, and Level three to dominate him. It takes till Frieza's fight for Goku to push himself to Kaio-what level 5. And Zenkai's are more represented as Saiyan Healing Factors, so they heal quicker then humans, but not like Nameks. So they can heal being punched unconscious in a day. And can heal shattered bones after a week or two, depending on severity. Saiyans are just able to get stronger with Zenkais because they can push themselves harder in training and battle, and their body knits together rather then scarring as easily as humans. |
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 10, 2017 2:27:48 GMT
One prime example for a reboot is Npberryhill's Bringer of Death fanfic. Many changes occurred that made Vegeta number one, but still had many twists and turns that made it original enough while still being faithful to the original material. Stories like these are excellent reboots IMO. But that isn't a prime example of a reboot because it was just an alternate history fanfic. I believe what Son Pan is saying is something more akin to Ultimate Marvel being a universe reboot of Marvel, retelling a history, not just an alternate history but sensibilities being different. So I'm thinking a reboot would benefit from knowing a completed setting from the start, rather then Dragonball which kind of made things up as it went along. So I would steer away from the horribly Anime-isms of power creep. So we start with Son Goku who is superhuman, he can smash rocks, he can kill bears, but gunfire hurts him but isn't immediately lethal. This new universe wouldn't have so steep a power curve, and because of less craziness people can be useful for longer, and perhaps as people become more powerful they aren't more powerful in all attributes, so some people like maybe Ox King could actually punch Raditz and harm him considerably, but Raditz is swifter and can use energy. We don't have anyone able to shatter the moon in Dragonball or we actually do make a point of mentioning the moon is a semimystical rock and not an actual planetary body. More point is drawn to Muten Roshi's Full Power Kamehameha is truly mighty and able to even say injure Raditz, but it takes time and is very draining. But say maybe have it strong enough to shatter a building rather then a moon or mountain. Raditz would more Ironman level strong able tear apart trucks and smash through walls, but not able to toss skyscrapers. Then we jump to Frieza and he is the first being able to shatter a Planet, and he had to transform and go full power to destroy Planet Vegeta. But SSJ is on Friezas level, and even by the time they are ready to go SSJ 2 Goku's SSJ form is still less then twice as strong as Frieza. SSJ also is nowhere near a fifty times boost. Kaioken isn't a multiplier either, it boosts your power, and maybe have it at 5th level being the limit of what Goku could do, with maybe 6th level Kaio-what being reserved for Kamikaze attacks. So Goku can fight Nappa and win without Kaioken, but it is a tough battle and he has to rely off of careful counter attacks, but with Kaioken level one he is able to overwhelm him in a combo. He needs Kaioken to even lay a finger on Vegeta, with Kaioken level 2 to keep up with him, and Level three to dominate him. It takes till Frieza's fight for Goku to push himself to Kaio-what level 5. And Zenkai's are more represented as Saiyan Healing Factors, so they heal quicker then humans, but not like Nameks. So they can heal being punched unconscious in a day. And can heal shattered bones after a week or two, depending on severity. Saiyans are just able to get stronger with Zenkais because they can push themselves harder in training and battle, and their body knits together rather then scarring as easily as humans. Yes, that is what I had in mind, a complete overhaul. For non-comic fans it would be like how Transformers franchise reboots or re-imagine with new series from time to time. |
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 10, 2017 3:07:58 GMT
I think a reboot is an excellent idea and I'm behind it 100%. Both DBZKai and DBSuper are half-hearted attempts, but an enhanced retelling of the story from the roots up would be superb. After all, that's basically what The Path To Power did with the first few sagas and I think people enjoyed that. If nothing else, it'd eliminate the anime's atrocious pacing. We all love Dragon Ball, but unless we're wearing inch-thick nostalgia goggles we recognize that it's got some major flaws. For one thing, Toriyama was writing the story from the seat of his pants, which means there is going to be some disjointed narrative. A reboot would allow for MUCH better foreshadowing, a more cohesive narrative, and a more consistent tone, which would strengthen Dragon Ball as a whole. Just because there was room in the story to allow for certain reveals doesn't mean some things couldn't use some extra foreshadowing long in advance (12 points):
-- Goku being an alien.
-- Dr. Gero, particularly that he is a member of the Red Ribbon Army, that he had a son (killed by Goku, like the TFS version), and that 17 and 18 were teenagers taken by him. Leave that as an unresolved plot thread to come back and bite the heroes.
-- King Piccolo's existence, particularly that Master Roshi faced him in the past. Imagining foreshadowing THAT from Roshi's first meeting with Goku! King Piccolo is already impressive enough as it is, but if we'd known to be scared of him from the third episode the viewer would dread him as much as Frieza by the time Krillin shows up dead.
-- Kami possibly not being native to Earth.
-- Goku intending Gohan to be his successor.
-- Gohan's hidden power being crucial later on.
-- The existence of the Kaioshin...or perhaps their absence due to Buu. (Have King Kai refer to himself being the top god since "somebody took care of the ones higher than me." A first-time viewer, not knowing about Buu, may assume Frieza was the one to kill the Kaioshin!)
-- The concept of a Super Saiyan.
-- Frieza. If Raditz, King Kai, and Vegeta/Nappa had been talking about Frieza from the get-go, just how much more afraid of him would we be? Possibly Frieza could be revealed later than his minions in order to keep him scarier.
-- Mr. Satan. Mention that a new Budokai is taking place but the Z-Fighters aren't going.
-- Buu's egg hidden on Earth.
-- If you want to end the series with Battle of Gods, the existence of Beerus the God of Destruction and multiple universes.
There are other things that I would change, like (9): -- spacing out certain villains so they aren't eliminated so quickly,
-- finding a way to beat King Piccolo without the Ultra Holy Water,
-- keeping Raditz around longer, keeping the PLs lower (and eliminate numbers entirely),
-- having the non-Saiyans get more to do, giving Frieza fewer forms,
-- having Goku actually kill Frieza and having only King Cold come to Earth for Trunks to kill,
-- having Dr. Gero stick around for longer, having more Imperfect Cell (and no Semi-Perfect Cell),
-- no SS3, no Goten and Trunks having Super Saiyan,
-- finding a way to keep Gohan in the Buu saga,
-- fewer Buu transformations.
Stuff like that. However, some parts of DBZ are so sacred that leaving them out or changing them would probably be considered blasphemy. Another benefit of a reboot is that it would better introduce the world to the original Dragon Ball. In America at least it was basically unknown for the latter half of the 90s, but watching the original Dragon Ball is crucial to many of the moments of Z. There's one major problem, with a reboot, though: if DBSuper is any judge, then people's expectations of Dragon Ball have solidified very firmly in the fanbase's minds. Not to derail the thread, but it will likely be similar to the problem the numerous Final Fantasy VII spinoffs, sequels, prequels, and remakes suffer from: not preserving the original interpretations of the characters and plots. Over time fanbases Flanderize characters and plotlines until they become very different from what they were originally. Cloud was originally NOT a brooding, silent, guilt-obsessed fellow. In the same way, the Vegeta we see in Dragon Ball Super is NOT the Vegeta we saw during the Saiyan saga or on Namek, and is not the same Vegeta at the end of the Buu saga. It would be crucial to present each character as they were, just refreshed, and not as they became in the fanbase's mind. I'm totally on board with a remake as long as it's approached as "let's streamline/improve the original story" and not "let's retcon the series into what we want it to be." |
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Post by Azoth on Jan 10, 2017 3:19:31 GMT
I'm honestly on the fence about something like that. On the one hand, a reboot could definitely allow for a smoother narrative, as we have all the events and characters in place so we can connect them better. On the other, I don't want to just tread old ground over and over again. The DBZ games did this forever, and it started to bore me.
I do like the idea of a Transformers-style reboot, though. You can have the characters and retain their essence, but place them in different situations and interpret them in somewhat different ways. The dragonballs on Earth could be the only ones in existence, for instance. Once the knowledge of artifacts of such power gets out to the wider universe, suddenly everyone's coming to Earth to get them. Or borrow a page from GT, and have one dragonball be found on Earth, and our heroes have to tour the universe to find the others to undo some catastrophe or something. Series quality would vary, depending on who is writing/producing it, but it could work.
Hell, if you really want to go wild, you could take the same concepts and themes of DB, and have new characters go on an adventure for the dragonballs.
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Post by Symbiotic on Jan 10, 2017 12:47:24 GMT
Goku: Grandpa, I heard you talk about midichlorians, what are they?
Gohan Sr: They are microscopic creatures that live in all living things and give us our connection to ki.
DB is done, flaws and all. Rather than reboot it endless ala DC the series should be allowed to move on or end.
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 10, 2017 13:15:02 GMT
Goku: Grandpa, I heard you talk about midichlorians, what are they? Gohan Sr: They are microscopic creatures that live in all living things and give us our connection to ki. DB is done, flaws and all. Rather than reboot it endless ala DC the series should be allowed to move on or end. Cool story bro. It is already "moving on". But they know its on such shambly grounds that if they moved past the time of the main cast no one would be interested in it. The idea with the reboot notion would be to make a more satisfying setting. One that would say for instance be able to persist past the first cast. If power level creep is hedged that means you can continue to play around with the earlier power levels, rather then have each generation insanely stronger then the last. Maybe in the reboot model Kid Trunks would be more along the strength of Zarbon or Recoome without going SSJ, thus you could explore adventures still with the likes of Krillin and Yamcha. |
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Post by The Masterman on Jan 10, 2017 14:42:19 GMT
I don't want it to reboot, mostly because DB is great as is filler and all. :T
I thought Dragonball Kai was a reboot originally...
I just hope that if it does it gets better treatments than Sailor Moon did with Crystal, mostly I mean the character models and ugly cgi.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 11, 2017 2:54:43 GMT
Goku: Grandpa, I heard you talk about midichlorians, what are they? Gohan Sr: They are microscopic creatures that live in all living things and give us our connection to ki. DB is done, flaws and all. Rather than reboot it endless ala DC the series should be allowed to move on or end. Sir, midchlorians came about from prequels not a reboot. Don't put that on reboots. Nerd check, sir, nerd checked (jk). I wouldn't mind if Dragon Ball just ended to be honest. It was a fun ride, but it doesn't need to continue. If the franchise is going to continue or they want to continue to make money off of it with continued series that it might be a interesting feeling to try to re-imagine the series and characters to see what kind of stories they could make. I honestly don't think it can be that much worse than Super and GT. |
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Post by Symbiotic on Jan 12, 2017 13:22:04 GMT
Goku: Grandpa, I heard you talk about midichlorians, what are they? Gohan Sr: They are microscopic creatures that live in all living things and give us our connection to ki. DB is done, flaws and all. Rather than reboot it endless ala DC the series should be allowed to move on or end. Cool story bro. It is already "moving on". But they know its on such shambly grounds that if they moved past the time of the main cast no one would be interested in it. The idea with the reboot notion would be to make a more satisfying setting. One that would say for instance be able to persist past the first cast. If power level creep is hedged that means you can continue to play around with the earlier power levels, rather then have each generation insanely stronger then the last. Maybe in the reboot model Kid Trunks would be more along the strength of Zarbon or Recoome without going SSJ, thus you could explore adventures still with the likes of Krillin and Yamcha. Goku: Grandpa, I heard you talk about midichlorians, what are they? Gohan Sr: They are microscopic creatures that live in all living things and give us our connection to ki. DB is done, flaws and all. Rather than reboot it endless ala DC the series should be allowed to move on or end. Sir, midchlorians came about from prequels not a reboot. Don't put that on reboots. Nerd check, sir, nerd checked (jk). I wouldn't mind if Dragon Ball just ended to be honest. It was a fun ride, but it doesn't need to continue. If the franchise is going to continue or they want to continue to make money off of it with continued series that it might be a interesting feeling to try to re-imagine the series and characters to see what kind of stories they could make. I honestly don't think it can be that much worse than Super and GT.  I just wanted to make a dumb joke  |
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