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Post by christhesaiyan on Jan 10, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
I started thinking about this recently. Planet Vegeta probably had a population of Saiyans similar to Earth's, and just about everyone on the planet worked for Frieza. Considering how many Saiyans went on off-world missions at a time, how is it that so few of them survived Planet Vegeta being destroyed? Shouldn't there have been at least close to a hundred survivors?
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Post by Saucemonkey on Jan 10, 2017 18:00:32 GMT
I was always under the impression that Frieza had Dodoria or some other high ranking henchmen hunt down any Saiyans that might have escaped the planets destruction, obviously keeping that fact hidden from Vegeta/Nappa/Raditz as they were essentially his "trophies" and wouldn't want them to try to go off and gather the remnants of the Saiyan people. I believe that if you count the movies, we see a total of 8 Saiyans who survived (Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Turles, Broly, Paragus and Tarble) and most of those Saiyans had a reason to go to Earth in the first place, so it's highly probably that there are Saiyans out there who are still around and that we just don't see them because they have no reason to come to Earth and didn't cross paths with the main cast.
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Post by Azoth on Jan 10, 2017 20:20:44 GMT
Our Earth's population is somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 billion. I'll estimate that Dragonball Earth's population is maybe at 4 or so billion.
While humans are a somewhat violent and competitive species, it's nothing compared to the saiyans. They live to fight, the stronger the opponent, the better. Given that, I think it's safe to say there aren't anywhere near the same amount of saiyans as there are humans. I'll be generous and say there's about a million or so, though I think the number if closer to a few hundred thousand.
Having said that, Freeza is the one deploying saiyans to various parts of the universe, so he would likely know where each of them was, if he chose to look. Even with deployments, I'd say there was still a large portion of the saiyan population of Planet Vegeta at any given time, between those too old or young to fight, plus ones to keep the infrastructure up. Taking out the homeworld would leave the saiyans with an utterly devastated population, possibly less than what would be necessary to establish a viable breeding pool. And since Freeza would know where just about any saiyan went at any given time, and the fact that Freeza probably has a decent amount of warriors at his disposal more powerful than the average saiyan (Vegeta being an outlier), it's a simple matter to hunt down most of them. Dodoria alone destroyed Bardock's group and nearly killed Bardock himself, so just send him and a few warriors of similar power out to mop up.
Freeza could increase his chances of getting most saiyans by issuing an order recalling all saiyans to Vegeta. Less mopping up he has to worry about, and he can keep a closer eye on Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jan 10, 2017 20:28:14 GMT
I was always under the impression that Frieza had Dodoria or some other high ranking henchmen hunt down any Saiyans that might have escaped the planets destruction, obviously keeping that fact hidden from Vegeta/Nappa/Raditz as they were essentially his "trophies" and wouldn't want them to try to go off and gather the remnants of the Saiyan people. I believe that if you count the movies, we see a total of 8 Saiyans who survived (Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Turles, Broly, Paragus and Tarble) and most of those Saiyans had a reason to go to Earth in the first place, so it's highly probably that there are Saiyans out there who are still around and that we just don't see them because they have no reason to come to Earth and didn't cross paths with the main cast. This is what happened. Even the Bardock special has a Dodoria and a few low-rank grunts eradicate Bardock's team (and they weren't exactly "elites").
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 10, 2017 22:02:20 GMT
There is a good chance the Saiyans weren't a big population. There was point when Vegeta said he didn't understand humans sentimentality on killing and said Saiyans killed people they didn't like as simple as that. They love to fight and battle and lack sentimentality it wouldn't be surprising if their population never grew to big as big as Earth's. That is assuming Vegeta is as big as Earth and has as many resources for billions of people to survive on it. Since the Saiyans migrated to another planet to make their new home seems to be officially canon with Super there a good chance that when Salad was destroyed that the Saiyans numbers were reduced greatly and the ones that took Planet Plant were only in the thousands. Depending on how long they worked under Freeza they may have gotten the population into the hundred thousands, since Freeza provided them with more opponents that distracted them from killing each other and allow their numbers to build.
I can see why Freeza destroying the planet left so few survivors. The whole organization forgot about Kakarot and his mission so there is always a chance there were more than four survivors. I never found the story of a new Saiyan survivor to be far fetched for that simple reason.
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Post by The Masterman on Jan 10, 2017 23:42:41 GMT
There's a special called Bardock: Father of Goku, in which shows Planet Vegeta's last days.
In said special either Frieza, Dodoria or Zarbon state besides Bardock's team all known Saiyans are on Vegeta which is a bit before Frieza destroyed it.
As for why there aren't more is because in groups the Saiyans are a massive threat but on their own they aren't the strongest race, remember it took Vegeta and Goku a long time till they surpassed Frieza hell the Namekian Warrior types had high power levels and if we use GT as a reference remember Goku, Trunks and Pan were struggling to beat most of the aliens they fought.
At this point it's save to say most Saiyans where in the same state as Tarble(Vegeta's weak runt of a little brother) who was banished or where like Goku, an infant/child on a low level world like earth to conquer it.
So what's left besides Goku, Vegeta, Raditz and Nappa are most likely lost children who will never return home or most likely never know their origins and weak, banished Saiyans who probably didn't last long.
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 11, 2017 0:03:42 GMT
I agree with Salagir in that Saiyans probably were not very populous. They don't seem particularly fertile, and don't seem to breed as often as humans, and they don't really seem to like to be crowded. So honestly they could have a population in the Hundreds of Thousands or Low Millions.
And as I stated in my space baby discussion thread I get the feeling most Saiyans sent offworld actually don't succeed and are expected not to survive. These are the unwanted babies, and this may actually be a method of population control, and they are the weakest babies.
But yes I feel likely there would be several Saiyans who survived Offworld. It was also said Frieza destroyed Vegeta while virtually all Saiyans were accounted for on the planet. So it really sounds like the Saiyan population is more like a small cities worth, and perhaps that means much of the planet in uninhabitable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 4:56:23 GMT
According to DB Minus (it's the only source with any information on the subject I think), the Saiyan population was only a few thousand. Would that qualify them as endangered? Maybe they would've eventually gone extinct on their own .
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Post by Azoth on Jan 13, 2017 20:55:17 GMT
According to DB Minus (it's the only source with any information on the subject I think), the Saiyan population was only a few thousand. Would that qualify them as endangered? Maybe they would've eventually gone extinct on their own . Wow, I was being incredibly generous. Without outside intervention, the saiyans would definitely have destroyed themselves.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Jan 14, 2017 2:19:46 GMT
According to DB Minus (it's the only source with any information on the subject I think), the Saiyan population was only a few thousand. Would that qualify them as endangered? Maybe they would've eventually gone extinct on their own . Wow, I was being incredibly generous. Without outside intervention, the saiyans would definitely have destroyed themselves. Well it actually says that there are several thousand Saiyans, that could be far more than a few given how vague it is. And it only refers to the ones living on Planet Vegeta, which isn't the Saiyans' original homeworld. Considering that there was a lot of conflict amongst Saiyans before their home planet was destroyed, we have no idea how many Saiyans actually chose not to settle on Planet Vegeta. There could also be hundreds of survivors that were on the losing side of the conflict and were not allowed to join the rest of the Saiyans on the trip to Vegeta, and just settled somewhere else, presumably somewhere more seclusive and far away to avoid the other Saiyans and starting another conflict (it's not like the Saiyans to avoid conflict but they're not stupid either, if a minority settled somewhere other than Vegeta they wouldn't stand a chance against the remaining population).
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 14, 2017 2:44:35 GMT
This topic brings up another interesting fact reminds me of U13 Kakarot. If the Saiyans sent low levels to weak planets to eradicate life on the planets and they got lost in paper work like Goku did (before the retcon) does that mean there were Saiyan survivors who did carry out their mission, killed all native life, than spent the rest of their lives living in isolation just waiting for when they will be picked up by their people or Freeza?
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Post by Azoth on Jan 14, 2017 2:52:11 GMT
This topic brings up another interesting fact reminds me of U13 Kakarot. If the Saiyans sent low levels to weak planets to eradicate life on the planets and they got lost in paper work like Goku did (before the retcon) does that mean there were Saiyan survivors who did carry out their mission, killed all native life, than spent the rest of their lives living in isolation just waiting for when they will be picked up by their people or Freeza? Potentially. Many may not have been picked up at all. Kakarot might have been lost as well if Raditz wasn't his brother. Others, of course, may have been killed by the natives themselves. Goku was tough, but Jackie Chun was still better and probably could have killed him if the need arose, at least by the first tournament.
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Post by Axalon on Jan 14, 2017 3:04:17 GMT
This topic brings up another interesting fact reminds me of U13 Kakarot. If the Saiyans sent low levels to weak planets to eradicate life on the planets and they got lost in paper work like Goku did (before the retcon) does that mean there were Saiyan survivors who did carry out their mission, killed all native life, than spent the rest of their lives living in isolation just waiting for when they will be picked up by their people or Freeza? Potentially. Many may not have been picked up at all. Kakarot might have been lost as well if Raditz wasn't his brother. Others, of course, may have been killed by the natives themselves. Goku was tough, but Jackie Chun was still better and probably could have killed him if the need arose, at least by the first tournament. I'm actually imagining some alternate DB universe now where the surviving citizens of Earth, assuming Roshi somehow gets killed early on, desperately searches for King Piccolo and release him to save them from the Saiyan menace, preferring his iron fist to Kakarot's wholesale slaughter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 19:13:47 GMT
According to DB Minus (it's the only source with any information on the subject I think), the Saiyan population was only a few thousand. Would that qualify them as endangered? Maybe they would've eventually gone extinct on their own . Wow, I was being incredibly generous. Without outside intervention, the saiyans would definitely have destroyed themselves. Yeah humans have had a violent history but we've at least reproduced faster than we kill each other so the population has been steadily increasing! Plus, humans spread out across the planet as they multiplied so it's difficult to bring down the population besides a rare catastrophic event like a plague or something. Nuclear weapons are the strongest manmade threat to the planet and the average Saiyan is capable of doing more damage. Maybe Planet Vegeta's ecosystem was destroyed by the Saiyans so most of it was uninhabitable or at least barely any wildlife left. Saiyans also don't seem to have any interest in preserving their species. Vegeta was willing to kill Nappa for failing and then kill Goku despite them being the last two remaining Saiyans. He also refused to reproduce with any humans when Nappa suggested the idea because he was didn't want any of them surpassing him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 19:20:51 GMT
Because most of them were on a planet when it exploded. Most biological entities tend to die when that happens. SCIENCE! The ones that weren't and known to be off planet were accounted for by Dodoria and friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 19:35:55 GMT
Because most of them were on a planet when it exploded. Most biological entities tend to die when that happens. SCIENCE! The ones that weren't and known to be off planet were accounted for by Dodoria and friends. I was just thinking about how they reached such a low population before Freeza destoyed the planet. If they never met Freeza, maybe they would've eventually gone extinct on their own .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 19:42:46 GMT
Well their low numbers are explained due to their excessively aggressive nature but due to said nature reinforcing their fortitude and then some, that nothing short short of an instant planet wide cataclysm would wipe them out. Also I guess the Saiyan of Legend could rock up and fuck all the arse, leaving itself with no way to procreate. Off topic: But isn't Betty a woman's name?
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 16, 2017 19:58:32 GMT
Kung Pao...
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Post by fooshin on Jan 19, 2017 0:11:02 GMT
The reason is stated on page 428. "No killing while in recess, kids"
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 19, 2017 1:03:52 GMT
This topic brings up another interesting fact reminds me of U13 Kakarot. If the Saiyans sent low levels to weak planets to eradicate life on the planets and they got lost in paper work like Goku did (before the retcon) does that mean there were Saiyan survivors who did carry out their mission, killed all native life, than spent the rest of their lives living in isolation just waiting for when they will be picked up by their people or Freeza? I'm guessing the other Saiyan children would still have/remember how to use their Saiyan pods to return to Vegeta after their mission was over. Goku forgot about his entirely due to getting bumped on the head. But in the case of those who got theirs destroyed...yeah, I could see that happening. Heck, they might be presumed KIA and never picked up at all. Potentially. Many may not have been picked up at all. Kakarot might have been lost as well if Raditz wasn't his brother. Others, of course, may have been killed by the natives themselves. Goku was tough, but Jackie Chun was still better and probably could have killed him if the need arose, at least by the first tournament. I'm actually imagining some alternate DB universe now where the surviving citizens of Earth, assuming Roshi somehow gets killed early on, desperately searches for King Piccolo and release him to save them from the Saiyan menace, preferring his iron fist to Kakarot's wholesale slaughter. I would like that as well. I hope we get to see a King Piccolo vs. Kakarot battle at some point in U13.
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