How did Vegeta really achieved Super Saiyan 2?

Vegeta already had SS2 before getting Majinned. He needed the spell to get rid of his compassion since he felt that was what was holding him back.



This is of course not taking into account any changes that may have occurred in DBM depending on how Salagir felt about the events in question. But from a purely DBZ manga standpoint, Vegeta achieved it before becoming Majin Vegeta.

Axalon,

You have a slightly different translation of the Manga than the one I read but it's pretty clear in mine that he did not have ssj2 until the Majinization.

The one where he says that Goku can go ssj2, he is referring to Gohan being the other not himself.

Sorry I still can't post pics but I'll write the dialog I got that proves this.

Babidi says "I'll release his hidden powers and allow him to overcome his limits." That pretty heavily implies ssj2 especially considering he was never shown to do so prior or said anything that implied it. Not to mention you'd think everyone on earth who could sense ki would have known he broke this barrier and it wouldn't be much of a secret.

Later...
Goku says our powers are about even "you trained harder than I did this time."

Vegeta says "you're wrong. I trained harder than you did but you're a better fighter than I am. No matter what I do that difference will always exist. I knew what I had to do when I saw you fight that monster that Babidi sent. If I allowed myself to be possessed then the difference between us would cease to exist.

All that seems like him all but saying Babidi allowed me to go ssj2. He saw goku go ssj2 for the first time against Yakon and realized he stood no chance against him but when Babidi tried to Majin him he realized he could use it to unlock his ssj2 and fight him evenly.

I assume you're talking about the second scan I posted? (Not sure if that's what you're referring to). I've got a second translation that also says the exact same thing:



Not to mention that it's directly after Goku goes SS2 against Yakon. Gohan's already a known quantity, so Vegeta wouldn't bother commenting on him and is clearly talking about the first time we see Goku ever use SS2.


I've got that exact same dialogue, but I don't see how the one quote contradicts all the implications I just posted. To link up with my next point below, Vegeta might simply be looking for a power boost on top of clearing his mind of compassion.


Alternatively, his SS2 just isn't as good as Goku's SS2. So while he was confident he could defeat SS2 Gohan (the weakest of the three between Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku) in the Budokai, after seeing Goku's brief powerup he started having doubts gnawing at the back of his mind. Differences in Super Saiyan strength has been well known since the Androids/Cell. Vegeta's comments on how he's gotten soft and less aggressive show that he considers a good portion of him being behind a mental block because he isn't as evil as he used to be.

What I'm interested in is if prideful people can naturally fight off Babidi's control or if Vegeta was a special exception. Vegeta is very prideful I can easily see his situation being a big reason for why he kept control of his mind. He was obsessed with defeating Goku and regaining his number 1 spot for years. It drove him to basically change his whole damn life without him even realizing it. It is safe to say when Goku died Vegeta was pretty lost. His whole drive was pretty much gone. To move on what does he do? He dedicates his life to make Trunks stronger than Gohan, which essentially him trying to outdo Goku the only way he can at that point. He finally gets a shot at Goku and to prove he is the best when Goku comes back for a day then learns despite all his training and effort he couldn't catch up. He sold his pride for power and risked being enslaved.

When he was bewitched by Babidi the first thing he does was try to provoke Goku to fight him. His drive to fight Goku and prove he is better once and for all. Resentment, envy, self-loathing, shame, all of it is boiled together over the years in one pot and Vegeta let himself be controlled for a single purpose, a single burning desire he held on to that could have helped him wrestle control from his new master and keep himself under control. Part of me wonders if Babidi tried to bewitch U13 Vegeta who hasn't had his pride crushed or obsessed with someone so badly that it became his life if he would fight off Babidi the same way the main Vegeta did.

We know little of Dabura, but from what we saw he is very similar to Vegeta, Freeza, and Cell. It is easy to label him weak minded or not as prideful as those three I think it could be more. Dabura is very prideful and arrogant as we saw during the Buu arc. He is the strongest person in his world and stronger than most mortals and gods. I can't imagine he didn't have a lot of pride like the other villains and he seems to be strong willed, given how he went against Babidi to try to kill Majin Buu for Babidi's own good. In the end Babidi controlled Dabura all the same and bent him to his will.

If anything pride and arrogance make beings more susceptible to Babidi's spell than resistant. Vegeta's drive to defeat his rival for the better part of a decade is what put Vegeta apart from Dabura, and by extension could be what puts him apart from Freeza, Cell, and his U13 counterpart. DBM might not go that route, but it is interesting to think about. It would be another interesting way to have Vegeta foiled against his U13 counterpart, to show how Vegeta had everything he originally wanted how much worse off he would or could have been.  

I'm of the belief that Vegeta unlocked SS2 before the Tournament, and only needed the Majin spell to stop holding back and to gain a power boost to catch up to Goku. In DBM Babidi unlocked Vegeta's SS2, so it stands to reason he could do the same for Frieza's 5th form and Cooler's 6th maybe. @skar made a very convincing argument to super gojita 3 similar to Axalon's now, so he should be helpful here as well.

This topic has been mentioned numerous times in other threads, so I thought it was time it had it's own thread. How did Vegeta truly achieved Super Saiyan 2 in DBM canon (majin powerup, training during the seven year time skip, other)?

Edit: Hey Conqueror Geng , will it be okay to merge some of the things said in the today's thread to this?

Well, it's done. As usual the post order got screwed.

Should I move this to DBZ instead? I mean, since it's almost outright stated by events in the comic, there shouldn't be any debate about when Vegeta got SSJ2 in DBM.

The big question is in DBZ where the evidence is far more vague at best, and insufficient at worst.

I disagree: "Now in our comic, if we put Vegeta SSJ2, we tell for sure our side.

If we don't, it does not mean Vegeta can't be SSJ2, although of course it would be stupid for him not to use it in this situation. Therefore, we don't take a clear side.

So we chose no SSJ2. We're not saying he does not have the transformation
" [Salagir, page 259 comments]

The only thing I wanted to say that it is not 100% confirmed, as you stated before, if the author literally states that it is not.
Completely devoid of my own opinion on the matter.
(Your reasoning itself for why DBM Vegeta did not have SSj2 at that time is completely solid alongside your explanation for Salgirs weird attempt to not pick a side but kinda still doing. I just never argued against that reasoning in my previous post.)