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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Mar 11, 2017 0:39:54 GMT
If Cooler replaced Frieza as the main villian of the series rather than a movie villain, do you believe he would have been better and more entertaining than Frieza? Im leaning on yes but lets hear the words of the wise ones of the forum!
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 11, 2017 0:49:03 GMT
Both are great villains in their own rights, but Cooler's spin on things will be interesting to behold in the series (him destroying planet vegeta, torturing Vegeta for 24 years, fight on namek, etc). While he may not be as strong as Frieza, but his taciturn nature, techniques, and first augmentation form (which allows him to surpass Frieza) would have been dope to see on namek. That and his armored squadron being the ginyu force of that series. Now lets just say that Cooler was the main villain in the namek saga. While it would be excellent, but I really do not see the z-warriors defeating a augmented Cooler at that point. Even super saiyan Goku. Since I have been heavily influenced by daizhenshuu / weekly shonen numbers, the hard math tells me that SSJ Goku will be hard pressed against him (SSJ Goku is 150 million compared to augmented Cooler's 470 million). Perhaps teamwork from Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien (let's assume he survives), and a few others will tip the odds immensely in Goku's favor. If not, Cooler shall win. But back to the main point, I would love to see Cooler replace Frieza. In fact, I think such a scenario happens in universe 9 based of what Krillin says:  |
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Post by Ashanark on Mar 13, 2017 4:02:33 GMT
I like Cooler better than Frieza, since I've always had a soft spot for honorable villains. I'm assuming you're saying "Have Namek happen exactly as it did, just have Cooler instead of Frieza." So Goku still tries the Spirit Bomb and the x20 Kaioken, still goes Super Saiyan, stuff like that. Also assuming Cooler doesn't have his 5th form, since that would beat Super Saiyan Goku and nullify the point. So the only difference is one of personalities--how would Cooler react to the same situations Frieza faced?
And...I don't think Cooler would be better. Or even different. You see, Frieza and Cooler are basically identical. Cooler's only a slightly nuanced version of Frieza, and most of those differences rely on Frieza being around to compare Cooler to him! Cooler is "stronger Frieza." Cooler is "more honorable Frieza." In the Toei films, he isn't really developed enough to be his own distinct character. If he replaced Frieza, Namek saga plays out exactly the same: Cooler fights Goku until Goku gets the upper hand, then attempts to blow up the planet.
DBM's tried to give Cooler more of his own niche, but a lot more work needs to be done before Cooler would offer anything different, let alone more interesting, from Frieza.
What I would prefer would be if Goku actually killed Frieza on Namek, and Cooler came to Earth to avenge him and was killed by Trunks. It always seemed lame that Goku's "YOU FOOL" didn't actually kill a horribly-wounded and weakened Frieza. It was also lame that King Cold, Frieza's dad, is introduced and killed without a fight. Give Goku his kill, but introduce an enemy of similar caliber for Trunks to kill off. Save King Cold as a movie villain--an extra-tough Frost Demon who's come to avenge his sons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 15:31:41 GMT
It would be interesting to see how the Freeza saga would've played out with Cooler. Cooler seemed "pragmatic" than Freeza and was willing to get his hands dirty before waiting until most of his henchmen were killed. Freeza had a handful of elites and an entire army of low level soldiers on Namek but Cooler only had his Ginyu tier Armored Squadron. In canon, Freeza had already acquired four of the Dragonballs and working on getting the fifth one from Moori's village. There were only two Dragonballs left at that point: one from the village Vegeta attacked and the one with Guru and Nail. It's possible that Cooler and his elite team cover have more Dragonballs by the time the Z fighters arrive. I'll assume they were at the same point as Freeza when Gohan and Krillin arrived.
-Would Gohan and Krillin still be able to save Dende? All three members of the Armored Squadron are much faster and stronger than Dodoria so they could easily catch up to Gohan and Krillin. Let's assume they manage to escape and hide before anyone could catch up to them.
-Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance against Cooler's elites so he has to lie low. Vegeta might attack the last village and steal their Dragonball or Cooler finds it first if Vegeta has to slow down and suppress his power while flying.
-Gohan and Krillin might hesitate visiting Guru knowing Cooler's elites are still searching the planet for the last two Dragonballs. Cooler might also find Guru's place before Gohan and Krillin get there. If Cooler does reach Guru first, Nail would tell them that Guru's life is linked with the Dragonballs so the Dragonballs would be deactivated if Guru was killed. They would either kill Nail or torture him for the password and to try and force him to speak their wish in Namekian. If Gohan and Krillin arrive first and Guru gives them the last Dragonball, Cooler might just kill Nail when he gets there and then send his team searching for ones who took the Dragonball.
-Goku arrives a few days later. If the henchmen did split up in search of the last two Dragonballs, Goku could target them one by one and kill them with Kaioken. The three Saiyans would be weaker than when they first fought against Freeza in canon unless they get a few Zenkais during this battle.
-Without Goku getting that last big Zenkai, he would be there to help at beginning of this final battle against Cooler. It would be Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Vegeta (if Cooler or his men haven't killed him already), and Piccolo (if the Z fighters managed to wish him back AND Nail survives long enough for him to fuse with). The Saiyans might be able to get some Zenkais if Dende is still alive. It depends if Cooler is as sadistic as Freeza and prolongs the battle torture to them or if he's the type to get the job done as quick as possible. I'm assuming he's in his first form because they wouldn't stand any chance if he was in his 4th form like in the movie.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 13, 2017 20:40:16 GMT
I like Cooler better than Frieza, but Frieza is the better, more entertaining villain IMO.
He's crueler, and his tendency to stretch things out to prolong suffering gives more opportunity to showcase personality, fighting techniques, etc. Cooler's more pragmatic, and this hurts him from an entertainment standpoint. Many DB villains have this flair for the dramatic, which Cooler lacks for the most part. The instant he senses trouble from Goku he busts out his fifth form, and once Goku goes SS1 he wastes far less time than Frieza and goes straight to trying to blow the planet up. Far more pragmatic.
So if Cooler were to replace Frieza on Namek in search of the DBs, I see Goku and co. just straight up dying. As others have said, the Armored Squadron would be much more of a difficult hurdle to handle than slowly progressing up from the likes of Dodoria, and Cooler himself has shown that he doesn't mind getting his hands dirty unlike Frieza who typically waits until all the henchmen are mostly dead. Not to mention that since he seems comfortable enough in his fourth form to casually sit around in it he also is a far larger threat from the onset than Frieza's first, far weaker form. Far less time would be able to be bought against the more level-headed, stronger Cooler, which hurts the Z fighters in the long run.
Hell, the Armored Squadron alone would be enough to handle anyone short of Nailccolo and Goku. Cooler would comfortably handle even Goku, probably somehow still miss the wish due to Guru dying and no Namekian to translate, then blow up Namek in a fit of rage and move on.
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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Mar 14, 2017 19:54:19 GMT
Cooler just seems "as his name implies" COOLER! His design in my opinion is better than Frieza, his personality is more charming imo and I guess I can relate to him more. He's straight to the point and doesn't wait unlike his brother. Only thing Frieza has above him is his sadistic side that I love. No other villian does it better than Frieza. The way he torture his opponents, breaks their spirit and finishes them off with the feeling of no hope and despair, no that's how you behave as a villian.
Cooler just seems more of a badass. He can accumulate energy faster than Frieza, has a 5th form, later when he becomes a mecha, he learns instant transmission and displays a shit ton more cooler techniques. If Cooler replaced Frieza we would get more personality from him and may find him more interesting than Frieza. But of course if everything played out on Namek as it did in canon, Cooler would destroy them lol.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 15, 2017 3:54:29 GMT
Freeza works better as the big bad of the Namek/Freeza story arc than Cooler. As others have said if Cooler is just transplanted in Freeza's story he has to win, because his character wouldn't allow for the heroes to defeat him at that point in the story. The only way to really allow for the story to play out with the heroes winning is if Cooler's arrogance and rashness are umped up, but then he loses part of his charm and becomes more like his brother. For Cooler to be his best he needs to have his own story arc after Freeza rather than just replace Freeza.
What made Cooler stand out from his brother and not be a total carbon copy of his brother. He trained so his body could handle his power without strain (doesn't need reduction form), he is more efficient than Freeza, and he is the responsible sibling who gets shafted for his less responsible younger brother who is favored by their dad, despite Cooler running a tighter ship than Freeza. Those are elements that work and need to be capitalized to have Cooler shine as a villain.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Mar 16, 2017 20:31:27 GMT
Both are good characters, but Frieza makes a better main villain. He's more sadistic and unstable, which makes him more villainous and believable as a character.
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