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Post by Beerus the Wondercat on Mar 30, 2017 18:34:33 GMT
Generally surprised this topic has not been made yet. I suppose this is going to be SUPER controversial but FUCK IT! What's good about a forum that doesn't ask the big questions! So i'll propose the question, what is arguably the best fight in DBZ? Best is subjective so you're free to determine what's "best" for you. Factors such as character context, choreography, emotion, animation and WOW factor.
For me personally, it's the Namek Saga battle between Goku and Frieza. Two titanic individuals who oppose each other in every way. Goku being the humble down-to-earth low-class monkey from the space boonies vs the arrogant galactic overlord. I think this fight works well for a number of reasons.
For starters, Goku and Frieza are complete polar opposites. There's this element of greek storytelling of them both being antithesis of each other's character that gives the context in which they interact a rather Machiavellian feel. This ultimately results with Frieza's ironic defeat (he tried to defy his destiny of losing to a Super Saiyan, only to set in stone the events that will give rise to one) and Goku's genuine regret of "killing" Frieza. Giving the fight a pointless conclusion vibe and shows the level of storytelling.
The scenes between Goku and Frieza are arguably the best they've ever been in Dragon Ball. People often like to cite that Z marked the end of tactic-based fighting in Dragon Ball but I don't think this is the case. Plenty of the attacks have good movement to them and flow naturally. Scenes like Goku using underwater attacks and dust clouds to one-up Frieza who presented as this unbeatable force. You get the best of both worlds with this fight. The base Goku fight being more about tactics and trying ever trick in the book to defeat Frieza. The 2nd being the SSJ GOKU TAKES FRIEZA TO WRESTLEMANIA ON A EXPLODING PLANET SON!
I'm curious about everyone else's thoughts though.
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Post by Symbiotic on Mar 30, 2017 19:18:22 GMT
Cell vs Goku is my pick. I'm sleepy, so I'll keep it short. The fight was even, it did a good job of showcasing both of their powers and skill, and if it weren't for the plot Goku would've had Cell beat with his Instant Kamehameha.
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 30, 2017 20:14:07 GMT
This is hard for me to choose, but I will pick Goku vs Majin Vegeta since the dynamics leading up to the fight created a level of tension that was perfect for its atmosphere. The very last full blooded saiyans in universe 7 fighting against each other, one for justice and slightly selfish reasons, with the other fighting for pride and extreme selfish reasons. The choreography, dialogue, fighting, music (Pikkon's theme kicking in as those two were wailing on each other was definitely a WOW moment for me), and tension all throughout is easily one of the greatest things ever in the Buu arc (or in general Dragon Ball period). Plus they were dead even since Goku never used Super Saiyan 3, thus making it a balanced fight that was never one-sided. Granted the fight was stopped prematurely since Fat Buu was resurrected, but it still left a very good impression on me regardless of the outcome.
Plus if you are a hardcore Goku and Vegeta fan like me, you know that some of their best moments came from this fight (especially Vegeta). Plus in the original manga this marks the only time a evil super saiyan appears, which was Majin Vegeta. All of these factors makes this fight even more delicious whether you are reading or watching it.
Honorable Mentions:
1. Gohan vs Perfect Cell and Cell Jr's
2. Goku vs Kid Buu (no Vegeta and Fat Buu)
3. Goku vs Vegeta (no Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe)
4. Vegeta vs Zarbon (both fights)
5. Goku vs Frieza
6. Z-Fighters (Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin) vs Augmented Garlic Jr, Spice, and Vinegar
7. Future Trunks vs Mecha Frieza and King Cold
8. Imperfect Cell vs Piccolo, Android 17, and Android 16 (especially the sixteen fight)
9. Goku and Vegeta vs Meta Cooler
10. LSSJ Broly vs Z-Fighters
11. SSJ2 Gohan vs Bojack and gang
12. Goku vs Pikkon
13. Majin Vegeta vs Fat Buu (most emotional fight IMO)
14. Goku vs Fat Buu
15. Gotenks vs Super Buu
16. Vegito vs Super Buu
17. Goku vs Hit (universe 6 saga)
18. SSJ Rage Future Trunks vs mutated Merged Zamasu
19. Goku vs Toppo
20. Goku vs King Piccolo (both fights)
21. Goku vs Piccolo
22. Goku vs Mercenary Tao (both fights)
23. Goku vs Jackie Chun
24. Goku vs Tien
25. Goku vs General Rilldo
26. SSJ4 Goku vs Baby Vegeta
27. Goku and Pan vs Naturon Shenron
28. Goku and Vegeta vs Syn / Omega Shenron
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Post by Ashanark on Mar 30, 2017 21:18:32 GMT
If I only had three minutes to convince someone to watch Dragon Ball, I'd show them either Goku vs. Nikki and Ginger from Dead Zone, or else Goku vs. the Bio-Warriors from World's Strongest. These fights are beautifully drawn, well-choreographed, lightning-fast and have powerful hits. Barring that, I'd show them Goku and Beerus fighting through the city in Battle of Gods. In the core DBZ, my favorite fights are always those between roughly equal opponents. There aren't very many: 1) Piccolo vs. 17 2) Goku vs. Cell 3) Goku vs. Kid Buu 4) SS Goku vs. Frieza Technically, Android 16 vs. Imperfect Cell is one, too, but it's not that visually interesting. Cinematically, I think Goku vs. Frieza is the best battle for the reasons Beerus the Wondercat mentioned. It's got lots of twists and turns, as well as fun strategies and a boatload of epic moments. If only there was some way to trim it down from 4 hours long so you could actually, y'know, watch it in one sitting. Goku's first Kaioken x3 on Vegeta, though, is pretty epic and fast, and the beam struggle afterward is still hype to this day. A lot of fights I used to love, like Gohan vs. Cell, are kinda boring now that I understand how one-sided they are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 18:45:59 GMT
1) Goku vs Freeza I liked this fight for many of the reasons Beerus the Wondercat mentioned. 2) Goku vs Vegeta One of the most intense battles! Goku was a low-class Saiyan who stood up to an elite. Although he won the epic beam struggle, Goku would've lost if not for the help of Gohan, Krillin, and even Yajirobe. It was similar to Goku vs Freeza in how they had opposing views. Vegeta killed Nappa because he failed while Goku's friends, who were even weaker than Nappa, were able to help protect their planet by working together. Those were my top 2 favorites. Here are the rest but not in any particular order: -Vegeta vs Recoome Even though it was one-sided, I thought the animation and choreography was great. -Goku vs Garlic Jr's Henchmen -Goku vs Wheelo's Bio-Warriors For the same reasons Ashanark mentioned about the beautiful animation/choreography. -Piccolo vs 2nd form Freeza My favorite battle for Piccolo! -Goku vs Piccolo Jr -Goku vs Tien -Goku/Vegeta vs Janemba Great animation, setting, and Janemba had many interesting abilities. -Broly vs Z fighters One of the most brutal beatdowns in the series. -Beerus vs Champa (DBS Manga) It was a short battle but it was epic how it spanned across multiple planets. I've always wanted to see a battle like this in the anime!
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Post by Axalon on Apr 2, 2017 19:55:36 GMT
1. Goku vs Piccolo
Even though Piccolo doesn't have all the special techniques yet that he'll get later on in DBZ like the SBC or the Hellzone Grenade, still a very interesting fight with lots of good old-fashioned beatdowns to supplement the techniques, rather than just ki blasts and powering up and transforming everywhere.
2. Piccolo vs 17
- Piccolo's last great fight all the way up to when he fought Frost in DBS. Also gives us the Hellzone Grenade. Also not a single blond haired fighter in sight (not counting #18), as this is the point where Super Saiyans first started entering Bargan Sale levels.
3. Goku vs Cell
- Visually interesting fight, lots of techniques on display. Cell playing around with Goku allowed him to show off old favorites and combo them together, like Tien's multiform with a quadruple Special Beam Cannon. Also gave us the Warp Kamehameha, which had everyone from the villain (who is part Goku and knows how he thinks) to the archrival to the best friend to the son all freaking out thinking Goku had snapped and was about to destroy the planet.
4. Majin Vegeta vs Goku
- Another great fight, this one with the extra benefit of having some emotional weight. Vegeta's betrayal of everyone for the opportunity for more power just to settle his grudge all while the fight feeds the slumbering Majin Buu was pretty awesome. Dragged down slightly when we realize later that Goku held back, much to Vegeta's anger.
5. Roshi and Goku's fights with the Biowarriors.
- As others have mentioned, very beautifully done.
Honorable Mentions:
- Piccolo vs Frost. A complete mismatch of a fight where only Goku's fight prior to this even gave Piccolo a chance by wearing Frost down a bit. Had Frost not cheated, Piccolo would've defeated a far superior opponent through planning and strategy.
- Broly's beatdown of the Z Fighters in his first movie. The scene where he clotheslines Gohan and Trunks and simultaneously kicks Piccolo still looks awesome.
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Post by Namikaze on Apr 2, 2017 20:41:25 GMT
I'd say Goku vs Cell for the stellar animation & choreography between the two, but Goku vs Kid Buu is also a close second just for how opposite, yet similar both combatants are if you really think about it. There's a reason Goku had so much of an interest in Uub. Unpopular opinion time (and please don't hate me for it ): Gohan vs Cell is overrated IMO. Don't get me wrong, the payoff was nice, but the entire "fight" is really just Cell pushing Gohan, and the latter just lopsidedly beating him to a pulp once he gains SSJ2. Like Symbiotic mentioned eariler, the fight between Goku & Cell was much more entertaining because the two were pretty much even (minus Cell holding back, but whatevs), and there was a good use of showcasing their skills & techniques. I don't hate it by any means, but it kinda annoys me that fans brush off the previous fight in favor of it.
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Post by Ashanark on Apr 2, 2017 21:03:04 GMT
I'd say Goku vs Cell for the stellar animation & choreography between the two, but Goku vs Kid Buu is also a close second just for how opposite, yet similar both combatants are if you really think about it. There's a reason Goku had so much of an interest in Uub. Unpopular opinion time (and please don't hate me for it ): Gohan vs Cell is overrated IMO. Don't get me wrong, the payoff was nice, but the entire "fight" is really just Cell pushing Gohan, and the latter just lopsidedly beating him to a pulp once he gains SSJ2. Like Symbiotic mentioned eariler, the fight between Goku & Cell was much more entertaining because the two were pretty much even (minus Cell holding back, but whatevs), and there was a good use of showcasing their skills & techniques. I don't hate it by any means, but it kinda annoys me that fans brush off the previous fight in favor of it. Agree agree agree! Of the three arc-finishing fights (Goku vs. Frieza, Gohan vs. Cell, Goku vs. Kid Buu) I'd say Gohan vs. Cell is the least exciting, and for the reasons you described. Half the time, Gohan doesn't want to fight, and the other half of the time he's just messing with him. Goku vs. Cell is more interesting. I will add, though, that Gohan vs. Cell's Kamehameha battle is probably the most intense, desperate moment of Dragon Ball. So on the whole the fight's pretty lame but it's got the best finisher of all DBZ. Also gotta agree with @skar : Vegeta vs. Recoome is awesome. For some reason the art quality is a lot higher than the fights before and after on Namek, and it's probably the only time in DB where one opponent is way stronger than the other but still gets the crap beat out of him. I've shown this fight to a few non-DB fans before, and they usually get completely sold about here: Possibly the most beautiful moment of DBZ.
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Post by Saudade on Apr 3, 2017 0:10:10 GMT
Hey Guys...
Goku Vs Piccolo Daimao?
Goku Vs Kuririn at the Budokai, beautiful fight with a great coreography.
Tenshihan Vs Yamcha
Goku Vs Tenshinhan
Goku Vs Ma Junior.
Goku vs Jack Chun at the Budokai Finals
DB has lots of beautiful fights that are also even and they throw lots of interesting techniques, they don't have the raw power from the DBZ onwards, but all the coreography and the way they fight is so awesome. I must say, even having watched DBZ before DB, DB still has the better fights for me, I just love them so much. DBZ has some great spectacles but DB wins it all for me.
Also Goku Vs Hit.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Apr 3, 2017 1:17:43 GMT
I don't like Gohan vs Cell that much, it was cool in terms of visuals and themes but it felt too one-sided in the end. Do like these, though;
1. Goku vs Frieza 2. Goku vs Vegeta (first fight) 3. Vegito vs Fused Zamas 4. Vegito vs Buu 5. Vegeta vs Cell (before and after he reaches his perfect form, mostly because of the emotional side of it)
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Post by supernekomajin on Apr 3, 2017 2:08:42 GMT
I really wish Super Perfect Cell had been equal to SSJ2 Gohan and had a real fight before the beam struggle, rather than just being cheap and breaking his arm.
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 3, 2017 2:10:54 GMT
I really wish Super Perfect Cell had been equal to SSJ2 Gohan and had a real fight before the beam struggle, rather than just being cheap and breaking his arm. Despite me loving Vegeta, but he really screwed up a potential epic even fight between those two. That or Akira being a lazy bastard. XD
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 3, 2017 3:09:26 GMT
Goku vs. Roshi or Goku vs. Tien are some of the best fights in DB. DBZ is cool with power trips, but DB had strategy and technique to keep things interesting. Power fantasy aspect that cropped out really decreased non-Saiyans roles a lot.
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Post by Griffith on Apr 3, 2017 9:11:54 GMT
SSGSS Goku V Golden Freeza.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 23:27:04 GMT
It's a toss up between Piccolo vs 17 and Videl vs Spopovich because I found them both to be brutal in terms of hard hitting action you can almost feel. Honourable mentions to Vegeta vs 19 and Gohan vs Super Buu coz muh fanboi jooses won't stahp a flowin. Finally I choose Goku vs Cell coz it just feels right, even if it did have some annoying "they are movin so fast we can't see them" bs.
Piccolo vs 17, while kinda ridiculous, came with legit stakes and had instant repercussions. Overall it was just a tough, satisfying fight to watch. Also Hellzone Grenade is fucking mad.
Then there is Videl vs Spopovich. If only I could find the old school masterfully edited AMV of this fight with Bring the Pain by mindless self indulgence, you would all just get it. Either way I still hold this fight in high regard because it is so fucking brutal you can almost taste Videl's sweat, blood and tears as she struggles against an unbeatable opponent all while wantin her to kick that cunts face rrrriiiiiight in. Yea, this fight needs to be uncensored to get the full effect now that I think about it. Meh, I stand by my choice.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 4, 2017 0:23:03 GMT
Unpopular opinion time (and please don't hate me for it ): Gohan vs Cell is overrated IMO. Don't get me wrong, the payoff was nice, but the entire "fight" is really just Cell pushing Gohan, and the latter just lopsidedly beating him to a pulp once he gains SSJ2. Like Symbiotic mentioned eariler, the fight between Goku & Cell was much more entertaining because the two were pretty much even (minus Cell holding back, but whatevs), and there was a good use of showcasing their skills & techniques. I don't hate it by any means, but it kinda annoys me that fans brush off the previous fight in favor of it. I agree with this. It really wasn't much of a fight. Now, the buildup to that moment I think is what everyone likes, and perhaps seeing Cell finally get his comeuppance, but the actual blow-for-blow fight itself wasn't that stellar without any type of emotional connection.
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 5, 2017 6:50:19 GMT
Unpopular opinion time (and please don't hate me for it ): Gohan vs Cell is overrated IMO. Don't get me wrong, the payoff was nice, but the entire "fight" is really just Cell pushing Gohan, and the latter just lopsidedly beating him to a pulp once he gains SSJ2. Like Symbiotic mentioned eariler, the fight between Goku & Cell was much more entertaining because the two were pretty much even (minus Cell holding back, but whatevs), and there was a good use of showcasing their skills & techniques. I don't hate it by any means, but it kinda annoys me that fans brush off the previous fight in favor of it. I agree with this. It really wasn't much of a fight. Now, the buildup to that moment I think is what everyone likes, and perhaps seeing Cell finally get his comeuppance, but the actual blow-for-blow fight itself wasn't that stellar without any type of emotional connection. I can see that. For me I have fights I like for being so even where anyone could win it and fights I like for being so one sided its a slaughter for losing side. I like Goku vs. Cell and Gohan vs. Cell for different reasons. The former even though Cell was holding back it gave us a good showing in what Cell could do and it was a test of both combatants skills that made it a great fight to watch (especially the anime version which added even more worth wild material than the manga IMO). The latter was just Gohan torturing Cell by showing just how screwed he was. Seeing the effect it had on Cell was what added to the experience to me. With the anime they added enough to make the fight even more entertaining. Cell resorts to using every technique and trick he had only for Gohan to effortless stop each one until he is so desperate he makes Trunks mistake to amp up his power at the cost of his speed.
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 6, 2017 20:44:22 GMT
Based on the posts so far, either Goku vs Frieza or Goku vs Cell are everyone's favorite fights with Gohan vs Perfect Cell being their least favorite. Truthfully all three fights are great in their own ways since they offer something spectacular that the other two cannot bring to the table. The Frieza fight was simply a brutal slaughterfest that was well balanced almost throughout the entire duration that had a healthy climax on a dying planet. The Gohan fight was superb in being a magnificent one-sided beatdown in contrast to all of the other balanced fights in the series. Plus the kamehameha clash was well done. The Cell fight against Goku was also good, but is the weakest of the three despite having some badass moments.
Cons:
1. Very slow start up (honestly both fighters were simply playing around for like the first 10 minutes that had no tension. Only when they powered up was when it got interesting, especially when Cell blew up the arena).
2. Constant Hercule and Firecracker commentary.
3. No Spirit Bomb (would have been dope if both fighters created a genki dama to overpower the other in energy created from either pure or negative energy).
4. Goku giving up (Even though it was almost guaranteed that Goku would have lost if he reengaged against Cell, but it would have been epic in some manner since it is well... Goku we are talking about. I would have loved it if Goku fired a Super Kamehameha while using the super kaioken to severely damage Cell while dying in the process. With his sacrifice fresh on everybodys mind, Gohan instantly becomes a SSJ2 with Cell receiving no senzu bean, thus making his beatdown even more brutal with the extra passion Gohan is giving him. After all if Goku was planning to die anyway in this arc, mind as well be in action while also being the one personally responsible for his sons ascension).
Pros:
1. Balanced fight (The fight went constantly back and forth despite Cell not even using anywhere near his full power. Nonetheless Goku went far to the point he managed to drastically make Cell's ki drop during the climax of their fight).
2. Good Z-Fighter commentary (especially from Vegeta and Piccolo).
3. Multiple techniques being utilized.
4. Reminiscent moments (This fight felt like Goku fighting against Frieza in certain moments when Cell used the tsubi kienzan or when they gripped locks against each other. Good times indeed).
5. Music (despite the lack of certain silent moments or that one track that liked to play when the tension died down, it was relatively a good addition to the fight by Bruce Faulconer).
So ultimately the Goku vs Cell fight is good, though it does have its flaws. Granted the Frieza and Gohan fights are not perfect either, but the Goku and Cell flaws are more noticeable (at least to me) compared to the other two. Granted all three are fantastic, so either way you will get a enjoyable experience whether you want to watch the Freiza (four hours), Gohan (over two hours), or the Cell and Goku match (over a hour).
With that being said, I still say that Goku vs Majin Vegeta is the best fight though it is my subjective opinion on the manner.
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Post by Beerus the Wondercat on May 26, 2017 13:07:58 GMT
Can't believe it's took me so long to get around to looking at this thread again! These are some really great answers. I honestly think each saga has at least 1-2 "Holy crap, that was awesome!" fights.
Honestly, if I hadn't chosen Frieza vs Goku, I would of gone with Vegeta vs Goku (Saiyan Saga). That was one spectacle of a fight. Obviously the power-levels have increased considerably, but nothing ever reached that same level of grit in the original fight. Just Goku and Vegeta obliterating eachother into a bloody pulp. At the end, Goku's just basically dead with a bloodied Vegeta kicking in his rips.
Obviously I like this fight for the same reasons as before -Storytelling. Low-class nobody who's humble and had to work for everything vs powerful elite prince born of status. Time old tale -choreography. All the combat is clear and easy to follow. Movements are crisp, plenty of technique use, pretty even fight with substance. -Sheer grit. Beam struggles, broken bones via Great Ape and spirit bombs. But NOTHING, will beat that KaiokenX3 beatdown that Goku gave Vegeta. The movement, pacing and power was so fucking cool. Especially how Goku just slammed Vegeta into the stone ground and watching it shatter. Then Goku flopping back. I think that's why I really enjoyed Kaioken and SSJ3. Extremely powerful forms that act like double-edged swords. Gives the story some tension and risk.
Original DB had some great fights so i'll list some honorable mentions: -Goku Vs Jackie Chen -Goku vs Tien -King Piccolo fight -Krillin vs Piccolo -Goku vs Piccolo junior.
DBZ: -Goku + Piccolo vs Raditz (two nemesis put their differences aside to fight the bigger threat is a fav of mine) -Goku vs Vegeta (saiyan saga and Majin) -Goku vs Frieza -Piccolo vs 17 -Vegeta vs 19 -Goku Vs cell
I've you guys want to include Super and GT fights that's fine with me. The Movies had some damn impressive scenes too. So go crazy.
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Post by Namikaze on May 26, 2017 23:56:25 GMT
Well, I don't remember much of GT, so the fights themselves are kinda wonky in memory. I'll say Goku v. Uub simply because it was the first fight in the show, and the meaning behind it is pretty special. It shows how Goku's character had came full circle going from student to master, following the trend he set off in Buu saga with the next generation taking care of things when he's gone. The action between the two is hard-hitting and fierce; you understand throughout the battle that Goku is becoming more and more aggressive, wanting his successor to be a real tough cookie. Uub, on the other hand, is a humbled youth who doesn't understand the purpose or capacity of his powers, but is slowly coming along to being a warrior like his master.
Super, on the other hand, has had some decent to sub-par fights, but nothing on the scale of Dragon ball or Z yet. There was potential for great storytelling with Zamasu, but he's quickly become a meme at this point. I'll otherwise say Goku v. Hit for simplicity sake. It creates some form of tension with Hit's Toki-Tobashi taking out Vegeta pretty effortlessly, and Goku having to find out a means of bypassing it. The manga continuity is even better with Goku returning/utilizing SSG in a way that really shows off his strategic side in a battle.
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