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Post by EvilXoda on Aug 24, 2016 2:47:18 GMT
At this point, I pretty much hate her.
I liked her at first when we saw her against Buu and stuff, but as the comic went on, she's slowly leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I wish any other female character was still in the tournament at this point; Videl (who was looking pretty damn cool), Zangya, Pan, those filler magic girls.
The problem I see with Bra is that she's straight one note, and that 'note' is not one people want to see all the time, which is condescending asshole. Most of her lines in the tournament have been berating others in and out of the ring, and nobody calls her on it. If someone did, or we occasionally saw Bra just talk to the others in a regular manner (is she and Pan supposed to be friends here? They have yet to even interact with eachother), it would go a long way.
It doesn't help that in this round she never once acknowledged her mistake of accepting these rules and went right back to jerkass mode after the sensus.
And while people are anticipating some comeuppance or balance, I think the difference with her and the other villains who act in a similar manner, is that villains eventually are defeated and humbled. But Bra isn't a villain, and at this point, I'm not sure if it's actually ever coming. Hell, between all those new moves she pulled recently coupled with SSJ2, and having a skill that allows her to kill Buu, she could very well take the tournament.
Infact, Bardock mentions that he saw who beats Raichi, and if it's Bra, that means Raichi takes the victory over Gast. If Bra can defeat a Raichi who can defeat Gast, that would basically put her in a good position to win the rest of the tournament.
(Well, there is XXI, but anyway...)
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Post by Akroma on Aug 24, 2016 2:50:27 GMT
There is a very soft line that separates just an opinion of a personal attack. If I say I prefer DBGT and you say you prefer DBS, ok, it is your opinion. But when I say "a girl needs some girl's treatment" and someone calls me "sexist", this is an attack and this gives to me the right of defend myself. First, say "a girl needs some girl's treatment" is not sexism. Look at my avatar: do you really think a sexist would "worship" a woman? Or be fan of Lightning (another strong woman)? That woman in my profile could be a match to a SSy3! Do you really think a sexist would recognize that? When I said "a girl needs some girl's treatment", sincerely, I only said the truth, based on biology, not on twisted concepts from that fucking current "correct political" generation. And yes, having a daughter is not the same situation that having a son. You must understand that there are physical and mental differences between the two genders, and is not people's feminism that would change that. If you disagree, then go complain to Nature, not to me. Some of Bra's harshness could be due to the lack of some "girly things" in her life. No offense but I think part of it is thag your english isn't that great. (I'm assuming it's not your main language) but correct me if I'm wrong basically what you meant was she should have been given a choice to become a stereotypical girl or anything else she wanted yet she was basically raised to know only how to fight. Would that accurately cover what you meant? English is not my native language indeed, but there is no concordance error in what I said. I'm assuming you misunderstood me, then I will say by another way. When you said this: "correct me if I'm wrong basically what you meant was she should have been given a choice" YES, YES, and YES!!! Each person has his or her free-will and must be given the choice of choose his or her own destiny. You may not force a person to be WHAT YOU WANT and this is the mistake of many parents. Parents are GUIDES, NOT OWNERS. Parents must do their jobs until a certain age, after, the son (or daughter) is free to choose his or her own path in life. You must PRESENT your children options, and allow them to choose by theirselves. Question is, Vegetto basicly forced Bra to be a warrior. With him around, her rotine was only training and battling through the universe. She could be a warrior AND do other things too, like "girly" things. But, once she was raised ONLY to fight, her harshness may be a consequence from that. I bet she never had a social circle out of her family, and this makes me feel sorry for her. Vegetto and Bulma are culprits too, they are bad parents.
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Post by The Masterman on Aug 24, 2016 3:07:12 GMT
I like her, reminds me of Vegeta for a time plus she had an awesome fight with Cold.
I do agree she needs some humbling quickly for character development but Cold needed a reality check first.
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Post by Archon on Aug 24, 2016 3:07:24 GMT
No offense but I think part of it is thag your english isn't that great. (I'm assuming it's not your main language) but correct me if I'm wrong basically what you meant was she should have been given a choice to become a stereotypical girl or anything else she wanted yet she was basically raised to know only how to fight. Would that accurately cover what you meant? English is not my native language indeed, but there is no concordance error in what I said. I'm assuming you misunderstood me, then I will say by another way. When you said this: "correct me if I'm wrong basically what you meant was she should have been given a choice" YES, YES, and YES!!! Each person has his or her free-will and must be given the choice of choose his or her own destiny. You may not force a person to be WHAT YOU WANT and this is the mistake of many parents. Parents are GUIDES, NOT OWNERS. Parents must do their jobs until a certain age, after, the son (or daughter) is free to choose his or her own path in life. You must PRESENT your children options, and allow them to choose by theirselves. Question is, Vegetto basicly forced Bra to be a warrior. With him around, her rotine was only training and battling through the universe. She could be a warrior AND do other things too, like "girly" things. But, once she was raised ONLY to fight, her harshness may be a consequence from that. I bet she never had a social circle out of her family, and this makes me feel sorry for her. Vegetto and Bulma are culprits too, they are bad parents. Ah ok then I think that's where many of the people mad at you got confused. They assumed you meant she MUST do girly things or be forced to be girly etc.
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Aug 24, 2016 4:04:00 GMT
Slightly off-topic: In Salagir's defense, even if Bra's dislikable he's still done a far better job of having relevant female characters than Toriyama or DBGT ever have. Android 18 and Videl only got one fight before getting kicked off to the sidelines for the rest of eternity, and Pan never did anything important in GT. DBM, meanwhile, has Android 18, two very brave Pans, the awesome U9 Videl, U16 Bra, and the weird U6 girls, which is a ton more females in combat than any other series of Dragon Ball has ever had. Even the small scene of U18 Videl taking down the Majin'd audience members does more respect to her character than anything in Super or GT. Toriyama's problem was less gender based and more race based. If you're not a Saiyan then you can say hello to being a background character no matter who you are. The humans basically all lost their significance after the Saiyan Saga, best friend Krillin had one more arc in him with Namek, Piccolo was able to last until Buu Saga before becoming a baby-sitter. The guys may get thrown a rare bone every once in a while, but by the end it's clear we're following the Goku-Vegeta-Gohan show, and not even Gohan makes the cut in Super or GT. Uub, the man who was supposed to be Goku's successor? Forget about him, GT leaves him out of the big space adventure and Super rather pretend the canon ending to DB never happened.
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Post by EvilXoda on Aug 24, 2016 4:37:53 GMT
Slightly off-topic: In Salagir's defense, even if Bra's dislikable he's still done a far better job of having relevant female characters than Toriyama or DBGT ever have. Android 18 and Videl only got one fight before getting kicked off to the sidelines for the rest of eternity, and Pan never did anything important in GT. DBM, meanwhile, has Android 18, two very brave Pans, the awesome U9 Videl, U16 Bra, and the weird U6 girls, which is a ton more females in combat than any other series of Dragon Ball has ever had. Even the small scene of U18 Videl taking down the Majin'd audience members does more respect to her character than anything in Super or GT. Toriyama's problem was less gender based and more race based. If you're not a Saiyan then you can say hello to being a background character no matter who you are. The humans basically all lost their significance after the Saiyan Saga, best friend Krillin had one more arc in him with Namek, Piccolo was able to last until Buu Saga before becoming a baby-sitter. The guys may get thrown a rare bone every once in a while, but by the end it's clear we're following the Goku-Vegeta-Gohan show, and not even Gohan makes the cut in Super or GT. Uub, the man who was supposed to be Goku's successor? Forget about him, GT leaves him out of the big space adventure and Super rather pretend the canon ending to DB never happened.
God, seven dragons, all wasted on being Goku fodder. That pissed me off so much.
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Post by Andres on Aug 24, 2016 14:30:09 GMT
I really like her, for the exact reasons everyone hates her. I find her refreshing. We have either morally good fellas (like Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Future Trunks and Pan), or we have villains, like the Androids, Fat Buu, Bojack, Frieza and Cold. Boring. The grey characters are the ones who I enjoy the most. Zen Buu is so completely random. He is prone to tantrums but has a sense of humour. He's just here for the lolz. Doesn't really care about anything. Gast Carcohl (one of my favs in DBM) is a paragon of justice, but he's brutal in his methods. He knows love and compassion, but he knows when and how to get shit done. He didn't hesitate to one-shot Frieza or Cooler. He understood they were menaces and acted accordingly. Yeah, he made Frieza and King Cold utterly EXPLODE, but that's what you get when you face a race who can survive pretty much ANYTHING. Vegetto tries to be a hero, only because he has a sense of morality. I think he's one misstep of being a supervillain. His Saiyan blood graves for fight and a challenge, and he doesn't get any. Being an interplanetary policeman isn't doing any good for him. Fighting Broly was the best that ever happened to him: he was so happy!!! He was Bra... is an interesting character. A very well thought one, in my opinion. Everyone seems to hate her because they're expecting some character development and to be what they expect SHE SHOULD BE. She's not. Every time I read DBM, it's like they're expecting her to change. Why change her? That's who and what she is. If Vegetto has anger issues, imagine a female teenage version of him. Vegetto doesn't have a challenge, so he's frustrated. She HAS a challenge, her father, who is 20 times stronger than her, but doesn't even try against her. He doesn't have too. And Saiyan blood runs through her veins as well: she wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe, she knows she has the potential, but her greatest hurdle is an unsurmountable one. Think how Vegeta feels with Goku. Think about Vegeta against Frieza: even when he was younger, all he wanted was to defeat the tyrant. I'LL GET STRONGER AND THEN KICK HIS ASS. Same thing with Veggie and Gast Carcohl. And now, the most important thing: Other than her anger issues and tantrums, she's SERIOUSLY mentally unbalanced. She's not the sweet kid everyone wants her to be: she's a deeply disturbed individual. Only thing keeping her in check is her father. And Piccolo. She seems to respect Piccolo the most. I'm sure that will be explained. I like her. She's a smart and resourceful fighter. She's not a paragon of justice like Gast. She wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe. That's it. It's clear she has some serious mental problems (think Kakarot), and now we're getting some backstory. I find her refreshing because she's different. She's not an idealized version of a person. She's a deeply flawed character, born with unlimited potential (think Gohan times ten), but instead of being raised by a mom who wanted her to be a scholar, she was raised by the two strongest fighters in the universe (her father and her brother), along with his niece, who ALSO wanted to be a fighter. Even her sister in law was a fighter of her own! Not everyone agrees with me. And that's fine. That's my own view of the matter
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Post by Veya on Aug 24, 2016 14:56:43 GMT
I like Bra for one specific reason... she is almost exactly how I was when I was younger.
I was also arrogant for no good reason, extremelly cynical and/or sarcastic remarks to everything, the only major difference is that Bra kind of has the power to back up her attitude, I kind of see much of myself on her, and I know she can grow out of it because I did.
And to be perfectly honest... I was like that because I was extremelly insecure, and the arrogance closer to comfort zone bravado than anything, one major one that helped me to grow out of it was coming into terms with my sexuality, you see, I am gay, but due to my own prejudices at the time, I supressed most of my sexual urges during puberty, and I didn't come to accept them until I was 17, and my life turned out SO much better after I did, so anyway, while I don't expect Bra to be deeply closeted like I was(although I would find it utterly hilarious if that's the case, if only because it would mean I called it to the letter), I fully expect Bra to have a similarly supressed sex drive among other issues.
Because of all that, I take a more... "maternal" look at the situation, and when I see someone in a similar situation that I was, I want to help them, sure, she is a fictional character, but the point of fiction is to evoke emotions, so I find it acceptable to think/treat fictional characters as if they were real people most of the time.
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Post by Ashanark on Aug 24, 2016 17:04:58 GMT
I really like her, for the exact reasons everyone hates her. I find her refreshing. We have either morally good fellas (like Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Future Trunks and Pan), or we have villains, like the Androids, Fat Buu, Bojack, Frieza and Cold. Boring. The grey characters are the ones who I enjoy the most. Zen Buu is so completely random. He is prone to tantrums but has a sense of humour. He's just here for the lolz. Doesn't really care about anything. Gast Carcohl (one of my favs in DBM) is a paragon of justice, but he's brutal in his methods. He knows love and compassion, but he knows when and how to get shit done. He didn't hesitate to one-shot Frieza or Cooler. He understood they were menaces and acted accordingly. Yeah, he made Frieza and King Cold utterly EXPLODE, but that's what you get when you face a race who can survive pretty much ANYTHING. Vegetto tries to be a hero, only because he has a sense of morality. I think he's one misstep of being a supervillain. His Saiyan blood graves for fight and a challenge, and he doesn't get any. Being an interplanetary policeman isn't doing any good for him. Fighting Broly was the best that ever happened to him: he was so happy!!! He was Bra... is an interesting character. A very well thought one, in my opinion. Everyone seems to hate her because they're expecting some character development and to be what they expect SHE SHOULD BE. She's not. Every time I read DBM, it's like they're expecting her to change. Why change her? That's who and what she is. If Vegetto has anger issues, imagine a female teenage version of him. Vegetto doesn't have a challenge, so he's frustrated. She HAS a challenge, her father, who is 20 times stronger than her, but doesn't even try against her. He doesn't have too. And Saiyan blood runs through her veins as well: she wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe, she knows she has the potential, but her greatest hurdle is an unsurmountable one. Think how Vegeta feels with Goku. Think about Vegeta against Frieza: even when he was younger, all he wanted was to defeat the tyrant. I'LL GET STRONGER AND THEN KICK HIS ASS. Same thing with Veggie and Gast Carcohl. And now, the most important thing: Other than her anger issues and tantrums, she's SERIOUSLY mentally unbalanced. She's not the sweet kid everyone wants her to be: she's a deeply disturbed individual. Only thing keeping her in check is her father. And Piccolo. She seems to respect Piccolo the most. I'm sure that will be explained. I like her. She's a smart and resourceful fighter. She's not a paragon of justice like Gast. She wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe. That's it. It's clear she has some serious mental problems (think Kakarot), and now we're getting some backstory. I find her refreshing because she's different. She's not an idealized version of a person. She's a deeply flawed character, born with unlimited potential (think Gohan times ten), but instead of being raised by a mom who wanted her to be a scholar, she was raised by the two strongest fighters in the universe (her father and her brother), along with his niece, who ALSO wanted to be a fighter. Even her sister in law was a fighter of her own! Not everyone agrees with me. And that's fine. That's my own view of the matter Great points! Now that you mention it, all of my favorite characters in DBM are the flawed ones. I'd also like to add Raichi onto your list: his hatred of Saiyans isn't exactly healthy, but he's not really a villain, either.
On the subject of flaws, this is also why Uub is my favorite person in U18. While he's another unambiguous pure-hearted good guy like the rest of U18, there's something about how he's still very inexperienced and untested that makes him more interesting to me than Goku and Vegeta, who are the calm veterans. There's a bit more uncertainty about what he will do and how he will react to things, whereas Goku and Vegeta are pretty predictable by now.
I also liked your observation about Gast. He's undoubtedly a good guy, but a scary good guy. Like what Future Trunks would be like if he didn't have a sword and had to kill people by beating the crap out of them with his fists.
By the way, it's my secret theory that Vegito will end up being an antagonist at some point simply out of boredom or frustration, and that U4 Buu will end up being the Big Good of the tournament. I might be completely wrong, but it'd be a nice subversion of reader expectations.
Salagir made a smart move with Bra, because if she was basically Pan (pure-hearted) with Mystic Gohan-tier strength, she'd be bland. Her personality helps her stand out more from the rest of the cast and is a balancing factor to her power level. Also, seeing Vegito and Bra be so powerful and arrogant makes us root for U18 more, who are more humble and technically the underdogs of the tournament. (Seriously--Goku and Vegeta would be hard-pressed to beat many of the people on the right side of the bracket.)
There are several good reasons why Bra acts the way she does, the most important being that her life is an endless and hopeless struggle to try to surpass her father. She must know that even at her very best, Vegito can still handle her at Super Saiyan 1--nowhere near his max--and that's got to be frustrating. It's like when I realized that, no matter how good I get at pushups, my 63-year old dad can still do multiple sets of 125 anytime he wants and school me...
The only way I can see Bra changing for the better is some sort of Vegeta-like realization that strength isn't everything. Even then, I'm not expecting her to be a warm and fuzzy person by the end of DBM.
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Post by Kaio del Norte on Aug 24, 2016 17:26:14 GMT
(Seriously--Goku and Vegeta would be hard-pressed to beat many of the people on the right side of the bracket.) I too noticed that all the 'Ultimate' fighters (Vegetto, Buu, Broly, Gast, Bra, XXI) are on the same side of the bracket. Not only that gives more opportunity to the fighters on the left side (U18 and Cell), it makes the story differ from the typical 'strongest-foes-face-each-other-at-the-end' kind of tournament. I like it.
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Post by Archon on Aug 24, 2016 20:13:47 GMT
I really like her, for the exact reasons everyone hates her. I find her refreshing. We have either morally good fellas (like Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Future Trunks and Pan), or we have villains, like the Androids, Fat Buu, Bojack, Frieza and Cold. Boring. The grey characters are the ones who I enjoy the most. Zen Buu is so completely random. He is prone to tantrums but has a sense of humour. He's just here for the lolz. Doesn't really care about anything. Gast Carcohl (one of my favs in DBM) is a paragon of justice, but he's brutal in his methods. He knows love and compassion, but he knows when and how to get shit done. He didn't hesitate to one-shot Frieza or Cooler. He understood they were menaces and acted accordingly. Yeah, he made Frieza and King Cold utterly EXPLODE, but that's what you get when you face a race who can survive pretty much ANYTHING. Vegetto tries to be a hero, only because he has a sense of morality. I think he's one misstep of being a supervillain. His Saiyan blood graves for fight and a challenge, and he doesn't get any. Being an interplanetary policeman isn't doing any good for him. Fighting Broly was the best that ever happened to him: he was so happy!!! He was Bra... is an interesting character. A very well thought one, in my opinion. Everyone seems to hate her because they're expecting some character development and to be what they expect SHE SHOULD BE. She's not. Every time I read DBM, it's like they're expecting her to change. Why change her? That's who and what she is. If Vegetto has anger issues, imagine a female teenage version of him. Vegetto doesn't have a challenge, so he's frustrated. She HAS a challenge, her father, who is 20 times stronger than her, but doesn't even try against her. He doesn't have too. And Saiyan blood runs through her veins as well: she wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe, she knows she has the potential, but her greatest hurdle is an unsurmountable one. Think how Vegeta feels with Goku. Think about Vegeta against Frieza: even when he was younger, all he wanted was to defeat the tyrant. I'LL GET STRONGER AND THEN KICK HIS ASS. Same thing with Veggie and Gast Carcohl. And now, the most important thing: Other than her anger issues and tantrums, she's SERIOUSLY mentally unbalanced. She's not the sweet kid everyone wants her to be: she's a deeply disturbed individual. Only thing keeping her in check is her father. And Piccolo. She seems to respect Piccolo the most. I'm sure that will be explained. I like her. She's a smart and resourceful fighter. She's not a paragon of justice like Gast. She wants to be the greatest fighter in the universe. That's it. It's clear she has some serious mental problems (think Kakarot), and now we're getting some backstory. I find her refreshing because she's different. She's not an idealized version of a person. She's a deeply flawed character, born with unlimited potential (think Gohan times ten), but instead of being raised by a mom who wanted her to be a scholar, she was raised by the two strongest fighters in the universe (her father and her brother), along with his niece, who ALSO wanted to be a fighter. Even her sister in law was a fighter of her own! Not everyone agrees with me. And that's fine. That's my own view of the matter I'm actually super glad I made this. Everyone is posting very good and interesting points. Some of which I never considered. Yeah characters that follow the same old archetype that has been played to death the last couple decades then it won't be interesting. For better or worse someone that breaks the mold will make the story more interesting and unique. I like Bra for one specific reason... she is almost exactly how I was when I was younger. I was also arrogant for no good reason, extremelly cynical and/or sarcastic remarks to everything, the only major difference is that Bra kind of has the power to back up her attitude, I kind of see much of myself on her, and I know she can grow out of it because I did. And to be perfectly honest... I was like that because I was extremelly insecure, and the arrogance closer to comfort zone bravado than anything, one major one that helped me to grow out of it was coming into terms with my sexuality, you see, I am gay, but due to my own prejudices at the time, I supressed most of my sexual urges during puberty, and I didn't come to accept them until I was 17, and my life turned out SO much better after I did, so anyway, while I don't expect Bra to be deeply closeted like I was(although I would find it utterly hilarious if that's the case, if only because it would mean I called it to the letter), I fully expect Bra to have a similarly supressed sex drive among other issues. Because of all that, I take a more... "maternal" look at the situation, and when I see someone in a similar situation that I was, I want to help them, sure, she is a fictional character, but the point of fiction is to evoke emotions, so I find it acceptable to think/treat fictional characters as if they were real people most of the time. I'm actually super glad I made this. Everyone is posting very good and interesting points. Some if which I never considered. Wow never thought this would get so deep XP but yeah that'd be quite a prediction if you were right in the end. I think it's more on the general side. She probably hasn't really been around other humans she could even develop a relationship with, beyond her immediate family that is, she was probably training on alien world's for much of her childhood so it's possible her sexuality is underdeveloped or some other such issue.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 24, 2016 21:25:22 GMT
After reading this thread and re-evaluating the points again, the only thing pissing me off about Bra was that she spoke so much trash to King Cold, while willingly carrying senzus against someone who supposedly, should be easy (confirmed by Bra's trashtalk). This could have been fixed by a small comment about it "Oh well, good thing I carried them as I somehow predicted this would get out of my hands!" but instead we got "HAHA! NO U!".
As for the neglected sexuality theory, this is also very logical, as it has been hinted Uub is very interested and shy around her. He already was a bit interested in U18 Bra which likely is boring as fuck, personality-wise to him. Perhaps, Uub's interest is the thing she needs for a development, and not more fights which she has had a lot during her life.
Reading the poll now, a very overwhelming majority enjoys aspects of her, but also greatly dislike others. (approx 54%).
Only 29.4% openly love her, while only 17% (!!!) hate her.
Shit, it almost seems like this is a completely different user base than the main webpage.
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Post by Archon on Aug 25, 2016 0:56:33 GMT
Not sure why my last post decides to double some text but oh well lol
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Post by Archon on Aug 25, 2016 1:00:32 GMT
After reading this thread and re-evaluating the points again, the only thing pissing me off about Bra was that she spoke so much trash to King Cold, while willingly carrying senzus against someone who supposedly, should be easy (confirmed by Bra's trashtalk). This could have been fixed by a small comment about it "Oh well, good thing I carried them as I somehow predicted this would get out of my hands!" but instead we got "HAHA! NO U!". As for the neglected sexuality theory, this is also very logical, as it has been hinted Uub is very interested and shy around her. He already was a bit interested in U18 Bra which likely is boring as fuck, personality-wise to him. Perhaps, Uub's interest is the thing she needs for a development, and not more fights which she has had a lot during her life. Reading the poll now, a very overwhelming majority enjoys aspects of her, but also greatly dislike others. (approx 54%).
Only 29.4% openly love her, while only 17% (!!!) hate her.
Shit, it almost seems like this is a completely different user base than the main webpage. Obviously if more people from the site joined we might see a different pattern but yeah its interesting to see.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 25, 2016 1:17:06 GMT
I don't hate Bra, I hate what Salagir has done to her. I'm perfectly fine with her being an arrogant character who has too much power for her own good. If she were to interact with Goku, the two would foil each other greatly. My problem is that the balance of Bra has been thrown off. It started with her going SSJ2 during the Buu fight, became noticeable during her fight with Sangya, and pushed it too far in the fight against Cold. If Bra is going to do something reckless, it should work or backfire. That's why it's called being reckless, because the action comes at a risk and is only worth the effort if it works. This doesn't mean she has to learn anything, though that is generally expected with character development.
If you have a character being reckless and their plan doesn't go accordingly, but afterwards, they suffer no consequence for it, than you've thrown off the balance of your story completely. Salagir's story thus far has demonstrated that nothing of consequence happens when Bra fails.
Here's what I mean...
Bra has failed a total of 3 times as far as I can count, none of which she suffered the expected consequence. She went ssj2 against Buu and lost control, but Buu didn't absorb Broly nor tried to exact his revenge on u16. She overexerted her herself against Sangya and killed her, but wasn't disqualified by Vegetto. And lastly, she let Cold play her and outsmart her, but didn't lose the fight because of it.
The first two were forgivable, and even make sense from a storytelling standpoint, but three is a magic number showing that there's a pattern here. It also doesn't help that the third method with Bra is the least believable, showing beans that couldn't possibly be there and having Bra spout out she was holding back the whole time.
I don't care if Bra never fails, I just care that she suffers when she does because otherwise I can't be afraid for her future. I can never be afraid of what will happen to Bra because in the fight with Cold, Salagir showed he was willing to go to great lengths to make her failure irrelevant. Even though I expect her to lose against Gast, I don't think it's going to effect her in the way it should.
I will say that the events of the recent chapter are more of my concern for storytelling, than for Bra's character, but because they were used on Bra, it has caused an unfair effect for my feelings towards her character.
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Post by Andres on Aug 25, 2016 1:57:09 GMT
After reading this thread and re-evaluating the points again, the only thing pissing me off about Bra was that she spoke so much trash to King Cold, while willingly carrying senzus against someone who supposedly, should be easy (confirmed by Bra's trashtalk). This could have been fixed by a small comment about it "Oh well, good thing I carried them as I somehow predicted this would get out of my hands!" but instead we got "HAHA! NO U!". I don't think (I never did, actually) Bra had the senzus BECAUSE of Cold. She saw the extent of Broly's power. She saw (and suffered) Zen Buu's power, and witnessed Gast absolutely nullyfying Buu's tantrum with his technique. After Broly's match, Piccolo gave them senzus. I'm pretty sure she kept some, just in case. But not because of Cold. She was sure she could beat him with his pinky, even untransformed. She just never had to use them. Of course, she never expected Cold to have two extra forms that would push him ahead of her. She wasn't carrying the senzus because of Cold. She was probably carrying senzus since Buu's fight in out of space, in case he would flip out again and she needs her strength. Better being prepared than sorry, eh?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 25, 2016 2:04:26 GMT
After reading this thread and re-evaluating the points again, the only thing pissing me off about Bra was that she spoke so much trash to King Cold, while willingly carrying senzus against someone who supposedly, should be easy (confirmed by Bra's trashtalk). This could have been fixed by a small comment about it "Oh well, good thing I carried them as I somehow predicted this would get out of my hands!" but instead we got "HAHA! NO U!". I don't think (I never did, actually) Bra had the senzus BECAUSE of Cold. She saw the extent of Broly's power. She saw (and suffered) Zen Buu's power, and witnessed Gast absolutely nullyfying Buu's tantrum with his technique. After Broly's match, Piccolo gave them senzus. I'm pretty sure she kept some, just in case. But not because of Cold. She was sure she could beat him with his pinky, even untransformed. She just never had to use them. Of course, she never expected Cold to have two extra forms that would push him ahead of her. She wasn't carrying the senzus because of Cold. She was probably carrying senzus since Buu's fight in out of space, in case he would flip out again and she needs her strength. Better being prepared than sorry, eh? What you said only gives me more reasons to think what I think. My main problem is the whole issue I explained, the whole sequence of things. If this was really something she always kept, we could have had some foreshadowing in the Eleim's fight (she had to ditch a glove away) yet nothing happened. But that's not the main issue. Main issue was her whole tirade after eating it, grinning like it was nothing, and throwing a smart-ass remark, while she could have said something akin to "Damn you! I never thought YOU would force me to use this, now, you will pay!". IMO whole senzu stuff was bullshit. Anyone can try using back-pedalling logic now that it happened, but that was not the most logical conclusion to come with. The whole fight would have felt better without it, and if it lasted only 3/4 of a chapter instead of 1 and half. I already knew Bra would win this fight, though in a very epic, but at the same time phyrric way. I only feel the senzu-thing takes merit from her. In the end, instead of pulling an unexpected plot-twist, just turned the tide to a more disappointing outcome.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 25, 2016 2:58:46 GMT
I don't think (I never did, actually) Bra had the senzus BECAUSE of Cold. She saw the extent of Broly's power. She saw (and suffered) Zen Buu's power, and witnessed Gast absolutely nullyfying Buu's tantrum with his technique. After Broly's match, Piccolo gave them senzus. I'm pretty sure she kept some, just in case. But not because of Cold. She was sure she could beat him with his pinky, even untransformed. She just never had to use them. Of course, she never expected Cold to have two extra forms that would push him ahead of her. She wasn't carrying the senzus because of Cold. She was probably carrying senzus since Buu's fight in out of space, in case he would flip out again and she needs her strength. Better being prepared than sorry, eh? Salagir stated that Bra always carries beans on her. Many people said that's utter nonsense since there was no hint to that prior, to which his response was that u16 has easy access to them and therefore we should be accepting of the idea of her always carrying some on her.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 25, 2016 3:05:54 GMT
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Post by Archon on Aug 25, 2016 3:35:18 GMT
Just because someone doesn't foreshadow something doesn't make it bad writing. Sometimes a surprise is a good thing. I think alot of complaints honestly come down to difference in taste when it comes to writing styles. However I'm not saying Salagir is some god of writing it's just I don't think everything NEEDS to be written a certain way.
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