??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Sept 30, 2017 18:32:22 GMT
Like seriously other than Toriyama probably just forgetting being the reason, why did Saibamen never get used after Saiyan Saga? You would think Frieza would like to have growable expendable minions that are extremely loyal that can have just about whatever power level you want them to have when you're designing them. Now you may say well actually Raditz level is the highest they can go, but I doubt that very much based off the fact that Nappa and Vegeta intended to bring ones around their combat level, but accidentally brought the Raditz level ones. Also another plot hole is why did they need Goku to help them conquer a planet if they could grow minions with power levels comparable to themselves?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 18:54:41 GMT
Like seriously other than Toriyama probably just forgetting being the reason, why did Saibamen never get used after Saiyan Saga? You would think Frieza would like to have growable expendable minions that are extremely loyal that can have just about whatever power level you want them to have when you're designing them. Now you may say well actually Raditz level is the highest they can go, but I doubt that very much based off the fact that Nappa and Vegeta intended to bring ones around their combat level, but accidentally brought the Raditz level ones. Also another plot hole is why did they need Goku to help them conquer a planet if they could grow minions with power levels comparable to themselves? Saibamen make for loyal minions, but useless conversationalists. I think Raditz wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because Vegeta wanted to defeat Frieza and wanted the aid of as many Saiyan survivors as possible and learned of Goku/Kakarot through Raditz. Raditz may have also wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because of the brotherly bond they share (we can see how brotherly Raditz was to him) or because the surviving Saiyans should just band together. |
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Sept 30, 2017 19:26:29 GMT
Like seriously other than Toriyama probably just forgetting being the reason, why did Saibamen never get used after Saiyan Saga? You would think Frieza would like to have growable expendable minions that are extremely loyal that can have just about whatever power level you want them to have when you're designing them. Now you may say well actually Raditz level is the highest they can go, but I doubt that very much based off the fact that Nappa and Vegeta intended to bring ones around their combat level, but accidentally brought the Raditz level ones. Also another plot hole is why did they need Goku to help them conquer a planet if they could grow minions with power levels comparable to themselves? Saibamen make for loyal minions, but useless conversationalists. I think Raditz wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because Vegeta wanted to defeat Frieza and wanted the aid of as many Saiyan survivors as possible and learned of Goku/Kakarot through Raditz. Raditz may have also wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because of the brotherly bond they share (we can see how brotherly Raditz was to him) or because the surviving Saiyans should just band together. I actually doubt Vegeta was actively planning on usurping Frieza at that time. The power gap was too wide. Vegeta only actively/openingly tried to betray Frieza once he realized Frieza was trying to become immortal. That forced his hand out of desperation because he knew if Frieza achieved immortality first then he'd have no chance at ever defeating Frieza and takimg revenge on him for forcing the Prince of All 3 Saiyans for working underneath him. Being forced into servitude must've really hurt Vegeta's pride during all those years. And anyways Vegeta never really cared about Saiyan comradery as he didn't care that Raditz died and had no trouble killing Nappa on a whim for failing to defeat such weaklings. Anyways the main subject of this thread is supposed to be about the Saibamen. It really doesn't make much sense why Frieza never used them. An entire army of growable loyal minions that can have whatever power level you design them to have upon birth would sound like something he'd be interested in having. It'd be the perfect army and he'd only need higher level minions to act as delivery systems and order masters to tell them what to do after they were grown out of the ground. They'd also be able to likely function as slave labor, a work force to remodel a planet to a buyer's specifications to fetch, personal servants (butlers to Lord Frieza, etc) |
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 19:38:19 GMT
Saibamen make for loyal minions, but useless conversationalists. I think Raditz wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because Vegeta wanted to defeat Frieza and wanted the aid of as many Saiyan survivors as possible and learned of Goku/Kakarot through Raditz. Raditz may have also wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because of the brotherly bond they share (we can see how brotherly Raditz was to him) or because the surviving Saiyans should just band together. Anyways the main subject of this thread is supposed to be about the Saibamen. It really doesn't make much sense why Frieza never used them. An entire army of growable loyal minions that can have whatever power level you design them to have upon birth would sound like something he'd be interested in having. It'd be the perfect army and he'd only need higher level minions to act as delivery systems and order masters to tell them what to do after they were grown out of the ground. They'd also be able to likely function as slave labor, a work force to remodel a planet to a buyer's specifications to fetch, personal servants (butlers to Lord Frieza, etc) Saibamen truly were a waste. They were brought into the Planet Trade Organization through the Saiyans. I guess they are too aggressive to be used as slave labor (judging from what we've seen in the Saiyan Saga) so were placed into combat roles as either shock troops or cannon fodder. Maybe it was that Saibamen were extremely difficult to produce which meant only a limited quantity were available at a time so were used only for special situations like conquering a planet of high-level warriors (liker Helior) where they could be used for distracting the armed forces of the planet while the PTO soldiers could go around purging the planet without much problem. |
|
??????
|
Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Sept 30, 2017 20:03:45 GMT
Like seriously other than Toriyama probably just forgetting being the reason, why did Saibamen never get used after Saiyan Saga? You would think Frieza would like to have growable expendable minions that are extremely loyal that can have just about whatever power level you want them to have when you're designing them. Now you may say well actually Raditz level is the highest they can go, but I doubt that very much based off the fact that Nappa and Vegeta intended to bring ones around their combat level, but accidentally brought the Raditz level ones. Also another plot hole is why did they need Goku to help them conquer a planet if they could grow minions with power levels comparable to themselves? The Saibamen's power is also affected by the soil's nutrients. If we're keeping this in-universe, then somehow the soil on Namek wasn't suitable for the Saibamen to develop, despite the lush blue trees. Regarding the Saiyans needing Kakarot to join their ranks, I think this was a last minute change conceived by Toriyama when he was planning Nappa and Vegeta's invasion and why Raditz had to be introduced. Storywise, it was Raditz's last attempt to bring back someone he could respect, his long lost brother, instead of the jackass Vegeta and the right hand general Nappa. Obviously after seeing how Goku is the goody goody two shoes and would never join a band of space pirates, this was scrapped and more of an interest to see what these Dragon Balls are. Besides, if Earth's crop of Saibamen was the strongest they've ever produced, yet Nappa and Vegeta are way stronger than that weakling Raditz I don't see why Vegeta would bother using the Saibamen unless the purged planet's level is a ridiculous 1-5 if they have to step in anyway for a job the Saibamen couldn't complete the first time around. Saibamen make for loyal minions, but useless conversationalists. I think Raditz wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because Vegeta wanted to defeat Frieza and wanted the aid of as many Saiyan survivors as possible and learned of Goku/Kakarot through Raditz. Raditz may have also wanted Goku/Kakarot to join him because of the brotherly bond they share (we can see how brotherly Raditz was to him) or because the surviving Saiyans should just band together. Anyways the main subject of this thread is supposed to be about the Saibamen. It really doesn't make much sense why Frieza never used them. An entire army of growable loyal minions that can have whatever power level you design them to have upon birth would sound like something he'd be interested in having. It'd be the perfect army and he'd only need higher level minions to act as delivery systems and order masters to tell them what to do after they were grown out of the ground. They'd also be able to likely function as slave labor, a work force to remodel a planet to a buyer's specifications to fetch, personal servants (butlers to Lord Frieza, etc) They're dependent on the soil they're grown in according to Battle of Z, and the manga if I'm not mistaken. Their mental capacity only includes the level of understanding a command, that's more than useless if you ask one of them to "retrieve the technology from that planet" since you'd have to explain everything to them. If it was a normal warrior, they can think for themselves and figure out what piece of tech is interesting for Frieza to bring back. |
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Sept 30, 2017 20:56:07 GMT
@fegget117 The Retro Kakarotto I guess I remembered Saibamen a little incorrectly. I misremembered their power being based off a set level predetermined upon their creation. Now as for Earth being the best soil that could grow strongest ones they've ever seen, then honestly I don't see why the Frieza Forces scientists never improved upon their cultivation process by like I don't know, say make a super rich soil that they could be popped into that would create super powerful Saibamen. As for doing various tasks, according to DB Wiki, they are intelligent enough to understand orders that are given to them. Sure that might not include complex orders, but it doesn't say they couldn't. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't be programmed with enough understanding to figure out what is technological and what isn't. Even then it's not like Frieza needs to have them do those tasks; he could always send his scientists in retrieve the tech after the Saibamen and few soldiers sent to give them orders finished killing off the population of the planet they were cleaning up for their buyers. Also it they should be capable of doing menial labor and even possibly construction and deconstruction work as well as aiding in terraforming the planets to meet specifications of the buyer. It seems to me like Frieza PTO would search for a suitable planet and then conquer that planet instead of just conquering any planet and terraforming it to become suitable. Seeing as they have great technology, it is kinda puzzling why they wouldn't use that more efficient manner. Hell with that manner you could even just sell buyers planets that were previously uninhabitated after terraforming them to make them livable for the buyers, but that of course is a somewhat off-topic and I guess a discussion possibly for another time and thread. Another possible militaristic use could be creating soil capsule Saiba-seed bullets to fire into enemies that wouldn't be able to prevent the penetration of bullets or Ki based attacks. It wouldn't matter if there was only a minimal amount of soil to make them weak if they ended up bursting thru their enemies destroying vital organs in the process. Seriously there are so many potential uses for Saibamen. I'm kinda surprised Bulma never asked Vegeta for the instructions the scientists used to create more. Oh and if it took to long to create them, why not create factories that mass produce them. Hell Frieza could dedicate almost entire planets to mass producing them and it wouldn't matter how long it took to create them if there were that many factories working on creating them. If it that was done then there should always be a decent amount of them. |
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Sept 30, 2017 22:12:24 GMT
I assumed Saibamen were grunts designed to help invasion teams clear a planet of its inhabitants and training and other tasks that were menial jobs. It made sense to me that Freeza didn't use them on Namek. He brought a group of soldiers that could do the job just fine. He didn't really need Saibamen to wipe out the Nameks and they can't interrogate anyone from what we saw. When Freeza and King Cold came to Earth for revenge maybe they could have been grown then to help wipe out life on the planet. Perhaps Freeza would have eventually grown some if he got bored or felt his men were taking too long. After that we never saw Planet Trade Organization again, so they were never given a chance to appear.
I imagine if we had spent more time in PTO and it had been fleshed out more we could have probably seen more of the Saibamen. For as little as we actually say the organization though it never really struck me as odd that we never saw them again or that weren't given a bigger role in the story we got. I would think the Saibamen were used for more tasks than we saw them in. Now why Freeza didn't just make stronger ones, perhaps they tried and just couldn't make them. Or maybe Freeza has foresight to not make an extremely powerful and intelligent instana grow army. That could easily backfire on him. There are several reasons for why the Saibamen were low intelligence and not super strong. I'm fine with it, because they were designed to be grunts rather than major power in the what little we saw of Freeza's empire.
|
|
??????
|
Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Sept 30, 2017 22:15:43 GMT
@fegget117 The Retro Kakarotto I guess I remembered Saibamen a little incorrectly. I misremembered their power being based off a set level predetermined upon their creation. Now as for Earth being the best soil that could grow strongest ones they've ever seen, then honestly I don't see why the Frieza Forces scientists never improved upon their cultivation process by like I don't know, say make a super rich soil that they could be popped into that would create super powerful Saibamen. For a bunch of Space Scientists, their mechanical enhancements wasn't enough to push Frieza past the limitations of biology. A human scientist could develop Cyborgs stronger than a Space Emperor, so I don't think they were special enough to think of an efficient way for the Saibamen to absorb a higher amount of nutrients to increase their power. Yeah but like Kakarotto in DBM, he couldn't tell what a Scientific Building looked like when they landed on Helior. I doubt a life form less intelligent than the insane bastard would have a better time understanding what, say, a special piece of technology looks like and recover for Lord Frieza. They were programmed at the bare minimum just so that the current warriors, Vegeta for example, could train up against them and determine if they were good enough for recruitment or just a bunch of weaklings like Tarble and Kakarot, destined to roam the weaker sections of space. Sending scientists already requires... natural (for lack of a better term) beings to examine the planet for anything that could be salvaged. If they're going to send scientists anyway, why not just send the warriors in the first place? Two steps for the Saibaman-Scientist route instead of just deploying a fighter like Cui who had some knowledge of technology. Less warriors, less resources required, less of a loss should something happen. insert code hereSo, basically what screwattack did by having Mr. Satan's opponent swallowing a capsule and he died from the capsule's expansion... doesn't have to be Saibaman to be the bullet, though that's bringing uncomfortable memories of a parasite I'll just move on now. It might not have taken long to produce them, I can't find a Kai clip that says the Saibamen Vegeta had were the last in stock. Still, seeing how none of the other troops have them, I suspect only Vegeta kept them from his childhood training. The scientist might've deemed them inefficient since their powers were dependent on the soil's richness, unreliable of a factor, he might've cancelled production but Vegeta requested to keep a Shit load of them since childhood, hence he's the only one to have used them in Z. Edit: Searched Saibamen on youtube, got a funny vid of Aku planting them with TFS Voice.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 1, 2017 0:26:20 GMT
Son Pan The Retro KakarottoI think just because we saw little of the PTO, I still think it's a shame looking back that we didn't get to see more of them. I mean just because the PTO organization's scientists were a bunch of morons until Sorbet took over or sometime into Sorbet's reign, I don't see why Vegeta couldn't have propositioned Bulma to improve upon the biotechnology of them seeing as she's his wife and he knows she and her father are super geniuses. He asked them to build him gravity training rooms, so why wouldn't he think that they could improve upon the Saibamen so Vegeta could have sparring partners to fight against in the gravity training rooms. Hell Korin might have even been of some help in improving them thru magical means seeing as he is the one who grows Sensu Beans. Imagine Bulma, Dr. Briefs (her dad), and Korin working together to create Super Saibamen by improving upon the science of the Saiba-seeds to possibly make them more intelligent, but not enough to decide to rebel and creating some sorta super rich nutrient soil that would allow them to have immense power levels. Now that I think about it, I think that Perfect Cell was inspired by the Saibamen to conceptualize creating his Cell Jrs. I mean if you think about it, they are kinda like Saibamen, but instead of soil determining their power level, Perfect Cell himself determines that and includes the knowledge of how to use all the techniques he can use, but with the flaw of for some reason being unable to regenerate. Maybe it wasn't possible for him to grant them that ability without it draining him down to nearly zero power himself and therefore he didn't do it because that would've been stupid to make himself that weak. After thinking about all of these things, I think I'm gonna have my RP character, Kor, be able to create Super Saibamen powerful enough to be some sorta threat or at least strong enough to function as a stall/distraction tactic and have them be able to use some of his techniques as well as regenerate. He does have access to a team of Tsufuls, since he was created by a group of Tsufuls that invented Multiverse Travel tech and later genetically engineered Kor to be the a Cell-like Legendary Saiyan, but still a Saiyan because instead of merging the DNA of various species together like Dr. Gero did with Cell, they beneficial chromosomes into a set of Saiyan DNA. Seeing as they created this sorta Ultimate Legendary Saiyan or Neo-Saiyan if you prefer, it would make sense that they could create such Super Saibamen that grow not in a planet's soil, but a specially created super soil.
|
|
??????
|
Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 1, 2017 1:21:16 GMT
Son Pan The Retro Kakarotto I think just because we saw little of the PTO, I still think it's a shame looking back that we didn't get to see more of them. I mean just because the PTO organization's scientists were a bunch of morons until Sorbet took over or sometime into Sorbet's reign, I don't see why Vegeta couldn't have propositioned Bulma to improve upon the biotechnology of them seeing as she's his wife and he knows she and her father are super geniuses. He asked them to build him gravity training rooms, so why wouldn't he think that they could improve upon the Saibamen so Vegeta could have sparring partners to fight against in the gravity training rooms. Hell Korin might have even been of some help in improving them thru magical means seeing as he is the one who grows Sensu Beans. Imagine Bulma, Dr. Briefs (her dad), and Korin working together to create Super Saibamen by improving upon the science of the Saiba-seeds to possibly make them more intelligent, but not enough to decide to rebel and creating some sorta super rich nutrient soil that would allow them to have immense power levels. Why would Vegeta even want improved Saibamen if they reminded him of his horrible days as Frieza's lackey? And given how Vegeta acted when Trunks entered the HTC with him, that leads me to believe his "training" against the Saibamen was nothing but a required test/routine physical issued by one of the Doctors before he headed out to his next mission/returned from one. Regarding the Gravity chamber, I'm pretty sure artificial gravity is easier to manipulate than creating a lifeform designated to surpass Vegeta. And if that's the case, why didn't Bulma try to create a Saibaman to take down the Androids? Or, when Vegeta first came to Earth? She had a full year; hell in her teens she witnessed Androids, maybe create a robot army to stop the Alien Invasion? Plus, where would they even get the components to make a Saibaman, it's not like they came from Space-Mart down the corner, maybe they're like the Senzu Beans: Issued out to only the finest fighters because Korin/Frieza can only cultivate a few beans/Saibamen at one time and only trusts those able to complete the task at hand. |
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 1, 2017 2:38:25 GMT
Son Pan The Retro Kakarotto I think just because we saw little of the PTO, I still think it's a shame looking back that we didn't get to see more of them. I mean just because the PTO organization's scientists were a bunch of morons until Sorbet took over or sometime into Sorbet's reign, I don't see why Vegeta couldn't have propositioned Bulma to improve upon the biotechnology of them seeing as she's his wife and he knows she and her father are super geniuses. He asked them to build him gravity training rooms, so why wouldn't he think that they could improve upon the Saibamen so Vegeta could have sparring partners to fight against in the gravity training rooms. Hell Korin might have even been of some help in improving them thru magical means seeing as he is the one who grows Sensu Beans. Imagine Bulma, Dr. Briefs (her dad), and Korin working together to create Super Saibamen by improving upon the science of the Saiba-seeds to possibly make them more intelligent, but not enough to decide to rebel and creating some sorta super rich nutrient soil that would allow them to have immense power levels. Why would Vegeta even want improved Saibamen if they reminded him of his horrible days as Frieza's lackey? And given how Vegeta acted when Trunks entered the HTC with him, that leads me to believe his "training" against the Saibamen was nothing but a required test/routine physical issued by one of the Doctors before he headed out to his next mission/returned from one. Regarding the Gravity chamber, I'm pretty sure artificial gravity is easier to manipulate than creating a lifeform designated to surpass Vegeta. And if that's the case, why didn't Bulma try to create a Saibaman to take down the Androids? Or, when Vegeta first came to Earth? She had a full year; hell in her teens she witnessed Androids, maybe create a robot army to stop the Alien Invasion? Plus, where would they even get the components to make a Saibaman, it's not like they came from Space-Mart down the corner, maybe they're like the Senzu Beans: Issued out to only the finest fighters because Korin/Frieza can only cultivate a few beans/Saibamen at one time and only trusts those able to complete the task at hand. I don't think they'd remind him of that and even if they did, I don't think he suffers from PTSD to where he couldn't encounter anything Frieza-related. Hell if all things Frieza-related made him stress the fuck out, he wouldn't never worn his Saiyan armor ever again because all of Frieza's men and even Frieza wore it. Anyways it's not like the Saibamen were a creation of the PTO. They were a creation of the Saiyans. A Saiyan scientist created them and they only were used by the PTO because the PTO saw them as useful Saiyan tech. Vegeta's reaction to Trunks entering the HTC is more related to him thinking Trunks was just trying to use his training room like a playground and not for actual training. I think if Trunks had wanted to train seriously and not just play around, then Vegeta would've had no problem with that. As for Bulma not creating them, I think it's more of a Toriyama forgot about the Saibamen and their usefulness. As for Androids, I think it's because Capsule Corporation isn't in the market of making weaponry. I guess you could say the same thing is true for Saibamen, but in a realistic DBZ Universe with no influence by Toriyama's forgetfulness as the write, I could totally see Bulma creating Androids and Saibamen for purposes of the non-militaristic with the exception of maybe making them be combated related solely for her husband's training needs. And for all we know, Bulma and Capsule Corp might have created Androids for daily use. We never really do get to see the Capsule Corp manufacturing plants or even all of the products they create; we only really see the ones the products that had story relevance. I'm sure there are countless different Capsule products that they manufacture and sell. They seem to be a tech super giant after all that creates a majority of the worlds capsule products and technology, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manufactured Androids for commercial and public use, but not militaristic use because they never really dabbled in militaristic tech from what we are told in the original Dragon Ball and/or by Toriyama himself. The Red Ribbon Army was the ones that cornered the military tech markets both selling to anyone who wanted military tech with maybe the exception of Earth's military since it would make sense not to intentionally sell military tech to your enemies. Oh and if Saibamen needed elements and compounds not naturally found on Earth or able to be created using naturally occurring elements in a scientific setting, I'm sure Bulma could alchemize them or wish for them with the help of Shenron. And yes you heard me correctly when I said alchemize; Alchemy is actually been proven by modern science not actually be a fictional science concept like previously thought. Though it can only be done use nuclear powered machines and as of yet in our modern society is not cost efficient since the cost to make x amount of gold is something like a 100x it's actual value. Now seeing as the DB world's far more scientifically advanced we are, I'm sure they've figured out how to cost effectively perform Alchemy and even if they haven't the Briefs family could afford to do so. Or like I said, she could wish for Shenron to magical make the material needed. I mean it's not like gathering the Dragon Balls is difficult for her to do seeing as she so casually gathered them and was gonna offer them as a grand prize for a bingo tournament held during her birthday party. If you truly think about how easily she can obtain them, it's actually rather kinda sickening and probably a good thing for the world that she's not evil like the Red Ribbon Army or Emperor Pilaf (who is rather deluded to call himself such since he doesn't have a kingdom to rule and never has). |
|
??????
|
Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 1, 2017 5:23:33 GMT
Why would Vegeta even want improved Saibamen if they reminded him of his horrible days as Frieza's lackey? And given how Vegeta acted when Trunks entered the HTC with him, that leads me to believe his "training" against the Saibamen was nothing but a required test/routine physical issued by one of the Doctors before he headed out to his next mission/returned from one. Regarding the Gravity chamber, I'm pretty sure artificial gravity is easier to manipulate than creating a lifeform designated to surpass Vegeta. And if that's the case, why didn't Bulma try to create a Saibaman to take down the Androids? Or, when Vegeta first came to Earth? She had a full year; hell in her teens she witnessed Androids, maybe create a robot army to stop the Alien Invasion? Plus, where would they even get the components to make a Saibaman, it's not like they came from Space-Mart down the corner, maybe they're like the Senzu Beans: Issued out to only the finest fighters because Korin/Frieza can only cultivate a few beans/Saibamen at one time and only trusts those able to complete the task at hand. I don't think they'd remind him of that and even if they did, I don't think he suffers from PTSD to where he couldn't encounter anything Frieza-related. Hell if all things Frieza-related made him stress the fuck out, he wouldn't never worn his Saiyan armor ever again because all of Frieza's men and even Frieza wore it. Anyways it's not like the Saibamen were a creation of the PTO. They were a creation of the Saiyans. A Saiyan scientist created them and they only were used by the PTO because the PTO saw them as useful Saiyan tech. Vegeta's reaction to Trunks entering the HTC is more related to him thinking Trunks was just trying to use his training room like a playground and not for actual training. I think if Trunks had wanted to train seriously and not just play around, then Vegeta would've had no problem with that. As for Bulma not creating them, I think it's more of a Toriyama forgot about the Saibamen and their usefulness. As for Androids, I think it's because Capsule Corporation isn't in the market of making weaponry. I guess you could say the same thing is true for Saibamen, but in a realistic DBZ Universe with no influence by Toriyama's forgetfulness as the write, I could totally see Bulma creating Androids and Saibamen for purposes of the non-militaristic with the exception of maybe making them be combated related solely for her husband's training needs. And for all we know, Bulma and Capsule Corp might have created Androids for daily use. We never really do get to see the Capsule Corp manufacturing plants or even all of the products they create; we only really see the ones the products that had story relevance. I'm sure there are countless different Capsule products that they manufacture and sell. They seem to be a tech super giant after all that creates a majority of the worlds capsule products and technology, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manufactured Androids for commercial and public use, but not militaristic use because they never really dabbled in militaristic tech from what we are told in the original Dragon Ball and/or by Toriyama himself. The Red Ribbon Army was the ones that cornered the military tech markets both selling to anyone who wanted military tech with maybe the exception of Earth's military since it would make sense not to intentionally sell military tech to your enemies. The Saibamen are a part of his "past life," are they not? Pretty sure he'd want to move on from his life as a Planetary Purger, now focused on surpassing the Super Saiyan, Kakarot. Regarding the armor, he only kept it due to the material's unique properties, a detail he can easily overlook. Tien Krillin and Piccolo on the otherhand couldn't. (Out Universe reason I wouldn't be too surprised if it was so that the audience can easily identify Vegeta in a similar attire.) Take a look at my post again, there's no suggestion that Vegeta would suffer from PTSD, merely that he might have wanted to put his days in the PTO behind him, or ignoring those days. That, and I think Bulma wouldn't want to help engineer the monster that killed her exboyfriend Yamcha, that's just a new low on the Yamcha bashing if it was actually considered in the series. Edit: post somehow had extra space and half of my response is gone. Wut? |
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 1, 2017 7:22:06 GMT
I don't think they'd remind him of that and even if they did, I don't think he suffers from PTSD to where he couldn't encounter anything Frieza-related. Hell if all things Frieza-related made him stress the fuck out, he wouldn't never worn his Saiyan armor ever again because all of Frieza's men and even Frieza wore it. Anyways it's not like the Saibamen were a creation of the PTO. They were a creation of the Saiyans. A Saiyan scientist created them and they only were used by the PTO because the PTO saw them as useful Saiyan tech. Vegeta's reaction to Trunks entering the HTC is more related to him thinking Trunks was just trying to use his training room like a playground and not for actual training. I think if Trunks had wanted to train seriously and not just play around, then Vegeta would've had no problem with that. As for Bulma not creating them, I think it's more of a Toriyama forgot about the Saibamen and their usefulness. As for Androids, I think it's because Capsule Corporation isn't in the market of making weaponry. I guess you could say the same thing is true for Saibamen, but in a realistic DBZ Universe with no influence by Toriyama's forgetfulness as the write, I could totally see Bulma creating Androids and Saibamen for purposes of the non-militaristic with the exception of maybe making them be combated related solely for her husband's training needs. And for all we know, Bulma and Capsule Corp might have created Androids for daily use. We never really do get to see the Capsule Corp manufacturing plants or even all of the products they create; we only really see the ones the products that had story relevance. I'm sure there are countless different Capsule products that they manufacture and sell. They seem to be a tech super giant after all that creates a majority of the worlds capsule products and technology, so I wouldn't be surprised if they manufactured Androids for commercial and public use, but not militaristic use because they never really dabbled in militaristic tech from what we are told in the original Dragon Ball and/or by Toriyama himself. The Red Ribbon Army was the ones that cornered the military tech markets both selling to anyone who wanted military tech with maybe the exception of Earth's military since it would make sense not to intentionally sell military tech to your enemies. The Saibamen are a part of his "past life," are they not? Pretty sure he'd want to move on from his life as a Planetary Purger, now focused on surpassing the Super Saiyan, Kakarot. Regarding the armor, he only kept it due to the material's unique properties, a detail he can easily overlook. Tien Krillin and Piccolo on the otherhand couldn't. (Out Universe reason I wouldn't be too surprised if it was so that the audience can easily identify Vegeta in a similar attire.) Take a look at my post again, there's no suggestion that Vegeta would suffer from PTSD, merely that he might have wanted to put his days in the PTO behind him, or ignoring those days. That, and I think Bulma wouldn't want to help engineer the monster that killed her exboyfriend Yamcha, that's just a new low on the Yamcha bashing if it was actually considered in the series. Edit: post somehow had extra space and half of my response is gone. Wut? Again like I said, I don't think things from his past really bother him all that much with the exception of Frieza, but that is very much understandable. As for Bulma not wanting to recreate something that murdered her ex-boyfriend, that might make sense, but if she didn't have a problem marrying one of the two people that ordered her the beast to try to kill her ex-boyfriend, then I don't see why she'd have a problem creating other Saibamen seeds. Hell she even forgives Vegeta for murdering like 25% of the Tenkaichi Budokai audience in the Buu Saga because he knew killing people would convince Kakarot to accept his challenge to a fight. She even forgives him for letting Cell become Perfect, which results in the death her alternate timeline son and her best friend all because Vegeta wanted a more challenging fight. If she's willing overlook all that crap and probably much much more that happens off screen, then I'm sure she wouldn't mind creating Saibamen for him to spar against because creating Saibamen would be so much smaller than those other things she ended up overlooking/forgiving Vegeta for doing. If she really cared about Yamcha that much, she would've never married the guy who basically was responsible for Yamcha's death in the first place, so that argument of yours is illogical and I'd say invalid. |
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Oct 1, 2017 9:32:45 GMT
To be honest I don't think it is odd for Vegeta not to think of the Saibamen as useful or ask Bulma to make more. He clearly didn't think much of them in his villain days. Nappa seemed to be the one that valued them and was shocked Vegeta dispatched one for not winning his fight with Tien. He probably only considered them worth wild for helping them destroy weak races. It doesn't surprise me if Vegeta never considered they could be made stronger or if they could ever reach a level of power he could. Vegeta was arrogant like that. Back in the old days Vegeta didn't really spar with other people and favored training on his own. Even when he and Trunks trained in the time chamber it is implied he left Trunks to his own devices while he trained alone. Trunks was his own son and proved to be a powerful warrior by Saiyan standards yet Vegeta didn't train with him. I can't manage he would see lowly Saibamen being up for the challenge. By the time he grew out of his unbearable arrogant phase he already had other people to train with, Trunks and Goku. It makes sense for him to not think of them again.
Bulma is a genius, but she favors machines and gadgets. She and her dad might not even think of trying bio-engineering as one of their side projects. I know we take for granted that fictional geniuses are a master in every subject, but it doesn't necessarily mean all of them are or do. If Vegeta asked Bulma for something to help him train her first thought would probably go to machines or gadgets to help Vegeta out rather than thinking of making some type of creature to do so. Making increased gravity machines and armor is more of where mind goes it seems.
I suppose another possibility to consider is that the Saibamen are so easy to make is because they are low intelligence and fairly low power level. It would make sense for them to so easy to grow is because corners are cut. If we look at cloning and how Cell was made it is likely more complex and require more time, resources, and effort to build them. Cell took decades to make and even then he was imperfect product that Gero needed two more of his creations to perfect it. It might be easier to mass produce the weak Saibamen we saw and Freeza felt it was more practical to recruit warriors from other planets than to spend decades making biological soldiers/weapons. Perhaps they are even just hard to make in general and weren't seen as productive or useful. There could probably be several reasons for why Saibamen weren't made stronger in universe to explain why they weren't used after the Saiyan arc.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 1, 2017 18:08:00 GMT
Son Pan I guess what you say works to explain things, but I still think they were a wasted plot device and Toei and Toriyama must agree seeing as they make several appearances in the games for training and even as playable characters. Xenoverse 2 even sh0ws that someone on Earth must've saw their potential and created more since apparently they have somewhat flourished, reproduced, and even some have evolved to have more intelligence and power by the time of the present day of Xenoverse 2.
|
|
??????
|
Post by christhesaiyan on Oct 2, 2017 7:41:23 GMT
There probably aren't many seeds left to grow them, they came from Planet Vegeta which is long gone.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 2, 2017 8:31:36 GMT
There probably aren't many seeds left to grow them, they came from Planet Vegeta which is long gone. Shenron, nuff said. |
|
??????
|
Post by FunnyEvil on Oct 6, 2017 8:19:07 GMT
The "mighty Frieza" doesn't want to be represented by Gollum knockoffs.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on Oct 10, 2017 1:36:50 GMT
I don't think Saibamen were all that great in the grand scheme of things to be honest.
Frieza already has entire planets worth of people to draw upon as expendable minions so plant people weaker than his average Frieza Soldier wouldn't be something he'd particularly care about. Especially since the Earth's soil was apparently REALLY GOOD for those seeds and the result was only a Raditz-level being. Nappa seemed to care about them the most, but that's probably because he liked having someone besides Raditz he could boss around and as an "elite" Saiyan how can you be truly elite if you don't have minions for entertainment and grunt work?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Jan 28, 2018 12:43:25 GMT
I would really like it if the Saibamen were used in the Frieza Saga and Later. I would even imagine much of Gero's Genetics tech was reverse Engineered from the Saibamen.
The Saibamen on Earth were said to be the super elite vets at 1.2k. Normal Frieza Soldiers are around the same level 1k on Average. So I would say normal Saibamen could be anywhere from 200-800 PL, so basically super strong by normal Civilian Standards but vulnerable to basic energy blasts from those space guns and super punches.
|
|
