DB a vicitim of its own success or fans expectations?

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staticsmall

DB a vicitim of its own success or fans expectations? Sept 6, 2016 20:57:13 GMT

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Post by Son Pan on Sept 6, 2016 20:57:13 GMT

I've noticed on the internet forums that new DB materiel is a mixed bag. There being people who like or love everything we've gotten in the recent years and people who absolutely hate it and think Toriyama is becoming the new George Lucas. God forbid the comparison to GT with anything. People have various reasons for their opinions. The people I've seen that dislike the new material cite how only Goku or Vegeta do anything anymore, predictable outcomes, new unneeded forms, recycled plots etc. which admittedly a sad, but true fact of all of DB. That got me wondering how much of a factor has age, nostalgia, and popularity has played a part in how people view DB today or its revival.

As a kid I loved DB and thought it could do more wrong. As an adult going back to it while I still enjoy and love it many of the flaws I see in new DB material I can easily see going back to the original. Part of me wonders if DB being as popular and blowing up as big as it did a reason why it sticking to the same formula its always had or if we as fans put way more thought into the series than was ever meant to be. The power level discussions, talk about natural limitations and power ups are bull shit and which ones are legit is so big in the fandom, but looking back on the series objectively it is pretty obvious Toriyama had no real rules or plans regarding the power ups and they worked on rule of cool or whatever they needed to be. Did we make DB out to be a better or more thought out series than it really was? If that is the case could the reason some of us have a harder time enjoying the new stuff because we're faced the real possibility that our beloved series was never as great as remembered it? Or is it that the new material is embracing all the worse elements of the series without adding the elements that made it great in the first place? Do the fans who enjoy even the newer stuff really just have lower expectations or they know what DB is and accept it for that, while others are clinging to it being a dark series with brutal fights and bad ass characters while forgetting it started off as a gag manga that sort of turned into a sci-fic fighting story? Is DB just a happy accident that kept shifting genres and somehow managed to slip into popularity that can't really be replicated?

Sorry for being so long winded, but really wanted to get a discussion going on about DB and how fans perceived it. It impacts the original and newer series so much, yet no one has really talked about it in depth. I'm looking forward to see responses that will come from this. I hope people respond and share their thoughts.

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staticsmall

DB a vicitim of its own success or fans expectations? Sept 7, 2016 4:36:12 GMT

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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Sept 7, 2016 4:36:12 GMT

I put more blame on Toei animation than Toriyama. They have a giant cash cow franchise on their hands that they've been milking for all it's worth, DBGT came about trying to ride the hype of Z, and DBS was a cheap cash grab to try revitalizing the franchise and ensure another two generations of merchandise.

The problem with Toei is they've got the two biggest cash-cows on their hands, One Piece and Dragon Ball. These franchises have become big enough brands that they're guaranteed a dedicated viewer base who will eat up all of their material even if they churn out crap. The end result is you get terrible animation regularly making it's way into episodes that looks like a downgrade from what they produced 20+ years ago, abysmal pacing, and so forth. Why put in the same level of effort when people will view weekly regardless of what you do? You'd think they'd put a bit more care on their smaller anime, but that didn't stop them from completely butchering Toriko beyond repair after their constant pushes to promote it up their with DB and OP. On the manga end you've got Shonen Jump and their hellish reign, who the authors are never safe from getting screwed by unless their name is Eiichiro Oda, who made them a gargantuan fortune and brought down his own health under the work conditions.

It hasn't been all bad though, there's been cool merchandise, and they've produced some quality gems as far as the games are concerned. That's the silver lining, though I personally wish they left the franchise to rest instead of bringing it back in the form of Super. I dropped it a while back, but I heard it's picked up recently.

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staticsmall

DB a vicitim of its own success or fans expectations? Sept 14, 2016 2:04:36 GMT

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Post by Son Pan on Sept 14, 2016 2:04:36 GMT

I hold anime studio, manga publisher, and Toriyama responsible for both good and bad in DB in general. It sounds like a cop out, but as much as the anime or manga can be too much of a business sometimes they do give us cool things. For example Kai was probably a cash grab, but I liked it for cutting down on filler and eliminating the powering up for whole episodes stigma. It makes it easier to re-watch the series without all the filler in between. I guess some of the filler wasn't all bad. It certainly did well transitioning Gohan from scared four year old trying to survive in the wild to kid who was easily slicing a dinosaur's tail for food.

I guess to get the topic going what is everyone opinion on God of Destruction/god ki introduction? On one hand it restores the gods' importance in the series where they had been so reduced that even the highest gods were behind the main characters. On the other hand I feel like god ki was added without much thought to it that someone like Vegeta can get it through training without a ritual yet other mortals don't seem to be able to do it. That doesn't get into how it works, like if it automatically makes gods superior to mortals or if normal ki can surpass it. Granted I haven't followed Super too deeply after the manga covered Battle of the Gods arc, so maybe there has been more in depth explanation for it. It kind feels like a new power up added like SS3 was only no consequences to it.