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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Dec 23, 2017 23:02:49 GMT
So this is just a what if I thought of today, what if Goku fought Vegeta full force that while in SSJ2 instead of convincing him to help fight MajIn Buu? Would he be able to incapacitate that prince or would Vegeta's bloodlust be more stronger since he's going for the kill. Would Goku kill Vegeta seeing he's too far from convincing or just knock him out?
Also since this is a basic question and ppl will be able to answer this quickly, I have another question to add. What if Gohan stayed with Goku instead of going with Supreme Kai to quickly take out Vegeta. Would he be able to help his father, go SSJ2 seeing his father hurt, or just get killed?
Lastly what if it was a double fight with Goku and Gohan VS Vegeta and Dabura, who would win?
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Post by Symbiotic on Dec 24, 2017 8:18:13 GMT
I'd say Goku would win. Vegeta's attacks tend to maximise hitting power at all other costs, and Goku has the ideal technique for dodging them. Majin Vegeta isn't fast enough relative to Goku to close the speed gap IT opens up like Cell was. Goku would just KO Vegeta if he was in the position.
Sorry to the few Gohan fans still clinging on, but I picture Gohan very heroically posing alongside Goku before attacking, getting bitch slapped by Vegeta who rants about how he doesn't have time for slackers, kakarot is his only concern etc then starts fighting Goku. Fight proceeds as normal but with Gohan passed out nearby. Optimistically speaking, if Gohan did go SS2 and help Goku I can't see him being more useful than a distraction to Vegeta, or someone who Goku lines up for one big attack like Piccolo tried to get him to do against Nappa.
Depends on if you think Gohan was SS2 fighting Dabura or not. If yes, I'll give this to the Majin team because Dabura could beat Gohan with better odds than the other way round and then could assist Vegeta. Goku could handle them both but stone spit and being able to occupy Goku at a key time for Vegeta might tip the scale. Of course if Goku isn't holding back and gets rid of Dabura immediately after it falls back to the first fight.
If no then I'll hand this fight to Goku and Gohan since if Gohan does transform he can easily take down Dabura then assist Goku.
Really though this double fight devolves to Goku vs Vegeta and Gohan vs Dabura nearby. Vegeta won't care to defend Dabura from Goku or Gohan but will be focussed so strongly on Goku that he might stop him from attacking Dabura first, unless Dabura acts stupid and insults him (which might end in Vegeta killing him for that and daring to interfere in his fight with Goku). Or if Goku stays true to character and doesn't consider targeting the weaker enemy first and leaves Gohan to handle it.
Breaking the odds down: Goku vs Majin Vegeta: 6-7/10 Goku Goku and Gohan vs Majin Vegeta: 7/10 Goku though if Vegeta plays up his ruthlessness I can see the odds shifting in his favour Goku and Gohan vs Majin Vegeta and Dabura: 5/10 either way, 6/10 against whichever side loses the sidekick first
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Post by Axalon on Dec 26, 2017 3:11:54 GMT
It depends on how seriously Goku is taking it. If he were being 110% serious he'd go a level beyond and go SS3 on Vegeta's ass. Not only is this a massive power increase over Vegeta (for comparison just look at how badly Vegeta fared in a measly 1 minute of combat with a SS3 tier opponent in Kid Buu) but the psychological factor would really eat at Vegeta as well. He's thrown away everything to get stronger than Goku...and it still isn't enough. Not by a long shot. That alone might shame Vegeta to the point where he just joins Goku to fight Buu.
That said he isn't going SS3 because the Buu Saga can be summed up as "Everyone is stupid. No one takes Buu seriously until the end", so now we have to compare the two SS2 forms. Goku declared he didn't want to get hurt at all and give Buu any energy and that he was "going to end it quickly, at full power". So barring SS3 that was basically Goku going all out as a SS2. The result ended up with them being about even, so we have to look at what each fighter offers beyond strength.
Vegeta:
- Majin Vegeta is more durable thanks to Majinization. As seen with Spopovich, he'll be able to take injuries that Goku simply won't be able to handle like a broken neck and get back up and into the fight. Vegeta by himself is already a pretty tough guy who can take punishment if need be (as seen against Kid Buu) and Majin Vegeta will be even tougher, especially since the power gap between him and SS2 Goku is nowhere near the gap between SS2 Vegeta and Kid Buu. There are really no downsides to this advantage.
- Vegeta overall has a better array of ki attacks than Goku does. The Kamehameha is tried and true and indeed powerful, but beyond that and generic ki blasts what does Goku have, really? (more on that down below in Goku's section). The Final Flash is also capable of taking out opponents stronger than Vegeta, which means SS2 Goku as an equal is in trouble if he gets hit by it. This advantage is mitigated by the fact that from what we see of the fight he doesn't use any of them and instead just tries to hit Goku really, really hard.
- Vegeta is more cold and ruthless at this stage. You could argue that Vegeta already won this fight thanks to an underhanded trick that caused Goku to drop his guard. Had he actually not been serious about attacking Buu and just wanted Goku dead (again) at that point he could've done it, and Goku couldn't have done a damn thing to stop it. By this logic Vegeta is already the victor. Good ol' Goku dropping his guard.
Goku:
- Goku has the advantage in terms of power management, since his dead body uses less ki than a living one. So while Vegeta is much more durable, Goku can last longer. Theoretically, since they both looked equally exhausted. Not really sure just how much advantage this is compared to Vegeta's more blatant durability one.
- Goku has a better speed factor in play thanks to IT...but he has to be able to concentrate for it to be effective. When it IS effective, it works great. Just ask Perfect Cell. But given that the fight is mostly the two just punching each other Goku's not going to have the time to concentrate to effectively use IT. We see this with both Perfect Cell and Kid Buu in play. After Cell regenerated from Goku's attack he just cranked the dial up and Goku didn't use IT again after that. With Kid Buu they were in such a rush to escape the exploding planet that Goku just couldn't concentrate on anything to escape.
The usefulness of IT is negated if the opponent doesn't stand there and let Goku do whatever he wants with it. It's entirely possible that Vegeta knows this about IT, which is why when he fought Goku he didn't do any of his fancy energy blasts that he's famous for (which Goku could just dodge at minimal energy cost compared to a Final Flash) and just engaged him in close combat, possibly even banking on the Majin's physical survival boost to help him.This advantage is mitigated by the fact that from what we see of the fight he doesn't use IT and instead just tries to hit Vegeta really, really hard.
- Goku has more varied techniques up his sleeve than Vegeta does. Vegeta's techniques all revolve around being different forms of ki attacks with the purpose of sending someone to the next dimension. Goku has some more generic techniques like the Solar Flare and Spirit Bomb up his sleeve...but a point against Goku is that he hardly ever uses them at all if they aren't the Kamehameha. Plus the SB takes forever to charge and there's no way in hell Vegeta would let Goku hit him with that attack again. These varied techniques are mitigated by the fact that from what we see of the fight he doesn't use any of them and instead just tries to hit Vegeta really, really hard.
- Goku has a senzu bean stashed away. This is a meaningless advantage since Goku wouldn't dare mess up a fair fight thanks to how stupid he is at times.
In a SS2 battle I will give it to Vegeta with a slight edge. Goku is either too stupid or incapable of using anything that could give him an additional advantage over the Prince of All Saiyans, and one of three things will happen:
1. Vegeta will defeat his hated nemesis Kakarot.
2. Vegeta will appear to be winning and force Goku to go SS3, upon which Vegeta loses. By going SS3, Goku will have acknowledged that he can't beat him as he is now, making Vegeta win the SS2 contest by default.
3. They pull a Double K.O. and make it a complete draw.
I don't see Gohan contributing much here at all. Vegeta likely knocks him out with a punch or two and then he and Goku fight in peace.
Goku's side if he goes SS3. If we're sticking with the SS2 only rule then I'd give it to Vegeta/Dabura. Vegeta isn't going to give a damn about teamwork, so this "team" fight is going to turn into Goku vs Vegeta and Round 2 of Gohan vs Dabura. Goku is likely to get distracted at some point if Gohan ever gets in trouble, while Vegeta isn't going to care about Dabura one bit.
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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Dec 28, 2017 22:29:25 GMT
This fight is really decided whether or not you think Goku or Vegeta has the edge over the other. Goku is very skilled, has a far more superior arsenal of techniques but unlike Vegeta he is soft-hearten. Goku has a long history of giving each of his villains the benefit of the doubt except Cell. He spared both Vegeta and Frieza but he did try to kill Frieza after he tried backstabbing. Majin Buu he spared after Vegeta threatened to kill him after their battle with Kid Buu and he technically spared Kid Buu since he was able to have him become reincarnated as Uub. Goku may go all out in this battle with Vegeta but their no doubt in my mind he will still hold back instead of taking the killing blow like Vegeta would and that will be his weakness.
Goku and Vegeta will fight at full throttle, Vegeta may know a lot of Goku's techniques but Goku did learn a lot in Otherworld so Vegeta wouldn't know how to counter his unique fighting technique completely. By the end of the fight they will be on their last leg, Vegeta's endurance will eventually give out even with his Majin buff because I believe Goku will utilize his ssj3 power in small bursts to override Vegeta's endurance and take the prince down without him noticing. Goku will believe Vegeta is no longer able to fight anymore and will let his guard down and that will be his downfall. Goku still believes that Vegeta has a bit of good left in him even after all of sins he has caused that day. He wouldn't believe the prince will kill him after their duel.
But Vegeta would and will. At the end of the day I think Vegeta would in win this battle only because Goku has too much of a soft heart. If Vegeta killed his family or friends then I 100% believe Goku would go for the kill or just go SSJ3 and destroy Vegeta's pride just as Axalon said before.
If Gohan was there with Goku then I do see Vegeta just one shotting him in the gut so that he can have his duel with Goku. Gohan is far too weak to contribute any help in this scenario even if he went SSJ2. The gap in power is too great, Gohan is weaker as a SSJ2 than his younger self during the Cell Games while Goku and Vegeta are damn near at the peak of the transformation. If it was a tag duel with Goku and Gohan against Vegeta and Dabura then it would just be Gohan fighting Dabura while Goku fought Vegeta. The Dabura v Gohan fight can go either way imo, Gohan would only win if he can somehow go SSJ2 and Dabura would win if Gohan can't go SSJ. If Dabura or Gohan did beat their respective opponent then they'd just get killed or taken out by Vegeta for interrupting his fight with Goku. So I guess my answer is pretty much the same as Axalon lol.
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 28, 2018 12:40:14 GMT
I feel Goku holding back made a difference. If Goku was Serious he would pull of some I.T. moves to K.O. Veggy.
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