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Post by Son Pan on Jun 26, 2020 19:36:42 GMT
I know there is mixed opinion on Freeza and 17 extreme power ups we got. At this point we basically know those power ups are here to stay. On the plus side during the Tournament of Power we had strong fighters who weren’t Saiyans who could take on the big guns. 17 and Freeza were crucial in defeating Jiren and it not just being Goku or another Saiyan that did everything on their own. Since the power scale has become more lax in Super should Toriyama just give extreme power ups to Piccolo and the humans as well. It was always a major failing on Toriyama’s part that he kept ignoring Krillin and the others by making all their training pointless or power ups insignificant that they eventually got phased out by the aliens. Piccolo lost relevance once he ran out of Nameks to absorb. It seems to me that this is the time for all of that and allow these characters to get their own extreme power up so that while they won’t necessarily be on Goku and Vegeta’s level that they can be in the ballpark and contribute more meaningfully in the battles and not just be forced to wait for Goku and Vegeta to show up and do everything.
I really don’t see a point in trying to keep Piccolo and the humans constrained by the old rigid power system where all their training amounted to nothing or power ups they got were rendered ineffective the same arc they got them. I’m not even saying they all just train for a little bit and suddenly jump up to SSB levels. I’m fine if we get a plot device to power them up like Old Kai ritual or Whis knowing of some method to help them get stronger. A lot of DB was plot devices to power up characters. It is just before Saiyans got the brunt of those power ups in the form of zenkai or Super Saiyan transformations. If Toriyama is now open to spreading that love out to other characters I wouldn’t complain of Yamecha could fight the main villain of an arc and force them to reveal more of their true power and warm them up for Goku to defeat.
All for BS power ups for all at this point if it means more diverse action for the future of the franchise.
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Post by Axalon on Jun 27, 2020 1:50:12 GMT
I'm fine with characters not receiving massive powerups. Power levels are only part of the problem, power scaling is DB's real problem. Most antagonists have been stronger than the last, the only two exceptions to this have been a sharp downgrade from Beerus to Frieza, and again with Jiren to Moro. DB is honestly to the point where Goku and Vegeta simply need to not be present and bam, you can introduce much weaker antagonists at roughly the same level as those characters remaining.
#17 keeps to himself and would be a non-factor, same with Frieza who is busy on the other side of the universe doing Space Emperor things, same with Broly who is living in a cave eating giant worm stew.
This leaves us with Gohan as the remaining strongest character, followed up by Majin Buu and then Piccolo (who is at SS2 levels in the anime). You could even toss in Gotenks from time to time. Between the latter three, you have crazy potential for various techniques and shenanigans and diverse action while Gohan can be the vanilla brawler of the group. Then you can pair these guys up with or against various other players, either newly created or older ones like the Trio de Dangers.
Problem is, Japan seems to just care about Goku. They don't dislike other characters, but Goku's their boy. The fandom in general would prefer to have Goku get stupidly stronger every arc as opposed to seeing diverse action from a plethora of characters.
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Post by Son Pan on Jun 29, 2020 20:39:31 GMT
I can't see Dragon Ball ever abandoning the idea of making stronger and stronger villains at all or Goku ultimately being the one save the day. That's why I think the only realistic compromise would be to strengthen the others so they can at least deal with mooks and warm up the villain, much like we go with the Saiyans, Ginyu Force, and Freeza before Goku ultimately comes in to save the day. At least that way the other characters could get good fights even if they lose in the end to main villain of the arc while still keeping fan preference for Goku still being the one to defeat or being a major contribution to the main villain's defeat. It's a proven model to work, considering past Dragon Ball arcs had that setup and it still would give the other characters moments to shine.
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Post by Griffith on Jul 25, 2020 5:40:12 GMT
I'd rather Piccolo, the humans and even Gohan to an extent just stop showing up at this point. Toriyama and Toyo really don't care about any characters beyond a select few individuals. But whenever these characters do get power ups it almost never sticks. Piccolo himself has received two massive power ups in the past, like when he vored Nail and Kami. But both times amounted to nothing and by the Buu arc he was relegated to just being a side character.
Android 17 got a large power up too for the ToP,
but he's essentially thrown to the wayside after that point. Roshi got ultra instinct in the ToP as well and past that point his greatest contribution to the plot is fighting some random mook.
So uh, no I don't think they should get power ups.
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Post by darius14 on Sept 19, 2021 19:02:01 GMT
I'm fine with characters not receiving massive powerups. Power levels are only part of the problem, power scaling is DB's real problem. Most antagonists have been stronger than the last, the only two exceptions to this have been a sharp downgrade from Beerus to Frieza, and again with Jiren to Moro. DB is honestly to the point where Goku and Vegeta simply need to not be present and bam, you can introduce much weaker antagonists at roughly the same level as those characters remaining. #17 keeps to himself and would be a non-factor, same with Frieza who is busy on the other side of the universe doing Space Emperor things, same with Broly who is living in a cave eating giant worm stew. This leaves us with Gohan as the remaining strongest character, followed up by Majin Buu and then Piccolo (who is at SS2 levels in the anime). You could even toss in Gotenks from time to time. Between the latter three, you have crazy potential for various techniques and shenanigans and diverse action while Gohan can be the vanilla brawler of the group. Then you can pair these guys up with or against various other players, either newly created or older ones like the Trio de Dangers. Problem is, Japan seems to just care about Goku. They don't dislike other characters, but Goku's their boy. The fandom in general would prefer to have Goku get stupidly stronger every arc as opposed to seeing diverse action from a plethora of characters. Well actually I think they are heading in the direction where powerlevels become somewhat irrelevant. Ultra instinct now becomes a matter of how well Goku instinct plays of his fighting capabilities. Plus Moro proved that enemies don't have to be stronger then the last just have a gimmicks worthy of abuse. I mean they played like superman that time and weakened the hero which was good in that regard because Goku rarely gets nerfed. Beyond my hate of the zamasu arc I'd say fighting an immortal is an interesting handicap. I'd like them to be relevant. But the Internet exploded for roshI to have a facimile of ultrainstinct. Id like for piccolo to collect the super nameks that left namek during the cataclysm. End it with slug. The fusing of nameks is rediculously potent. Piccolo barely trained and landed on namek fused with nail and his power was over a million. His power was roughly 2 grand i think after his death to nappa. Then his fusion together made him stronger then first form cell. Well for awhile that is. |
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Post by godjacob on Sept 22, 2021 7:10:51 GMT
I don't, never have, and could care less about power scaling consistency. I actually love 17 being as strong as he was (Even if it is at times overstated) and he was one of the best parts of the ToP. I very much value a character having a place in the plot vs. "OMG this makes no sense should one shot!" mindset so yes I would be in favor of giving Piccolo and the Earthlings a bit of love in the power up department.
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 13, 2022 2:21:48 GMT
Now we have Orange Piccolo. Piccolo really did receive a major power up that at least put him in the ballpark of SSGSS/Super Saiyan Blue power. It was cool to see Piccolo get spotlight again and not be treated as fodder.
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