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Post by drewsaga on Sept 12, 2021 22:09:33 GMT
Imagine if you could pull a Majin Buu (or pull a Zen Buu and take over lol) and select your matchups that you would like to see. What matchups would you all have liked to see, and for this I exclude characters who aren't already part of the roster in the actual DBM tourney (though you could have even more cool matchups this way of course).
Examples of matchups that do not count include:
- U18 Piccolo vs U11 Dabura - U16 Piccolo vs U6 Bojack - U18 Gohan vs U17 Cell - U18 Gogeta vs U16 Vegetto
Of course interesting matchups don't always involve two opponents being able to keep up with each other, some could be more interesting from a dialogue perspective as well such as Gast vs Raichi was.
Alternate matchups I would like to see would be: - U13 Vegeta vs U7 Gast: Gast obviously knows who Vegeta is from his universe and probably has faced him before while Vegeta (along with Frieza until Frieza and Vegeta of U13 fought each other) committed genocide again. So I wonder how Gast would react to seeing Vegeta though I am sure it will involve Gast pummeling Vegeta.
- U18 Vegeta vs U8 Frieza: Would play out similarly to Goku vs Frieza I imagine but probably we'd get some more dialogue since Vegeta has a long history with Frieza that was rather...terrible. The interaction between the two before the fight would be interesting, much more so than if U13 Vegeta fought U8 Frieza. I still say it would have been cooler to see Goku vs Frieza more like what Bra vs Cold/Ginyu was though where Goku beats Frieza in base using better skills and techniques to beat Frieza's power and endurance. U18 Vegeta thought about that in the Novel about how if he were in Goku's place he'd beat Frieza without even transforming which would be what he calls the "ultimate humiliation", but let's be real, it'd be better for Frieza's reputation if he didn't get embarrassingly one-shotted by Goku like he did by Goku going SSJ.
- U8 Cold/Ginyu vs U17 Cell Jr Okay, this one is meant to be hilarious, imagine such a tiny pipsqueak giving a monster fighter like 6th Form Cold/Ginyu trouble and imagine them swapping bodies. This fight would be surprisingly even. Though I think if they swapped bodies and by chance Ginyu won in Cell Jr's body, Cell would just immediately end him when he gets the chance lol.
- U16 Vegetto vs U7 Gast So we know Gast can shut off his SSJ3 form but imagine if Gast could limit Vegetto to his base form, that could be quite the interesting fight right there, though if Gast's magic doesn't work against SSJ1 Vegetto or SSJ2 Vegetto, Gast is fatally screwed.
- U18 Goku vs U3 Raichi This would be quite the challenge for Goku that Goku would welcome, though sadly Raichi doesn't seem to understand that not every Saiyan is evil, tragic villain he is so I am sure Raichi doesn't have anything nice to say to Goku though Goku would probably try to befriend Raichi, but let's assume that Raichi has all of the ghost warriors he got in DBM (Ghost Cell Jr, Ghost SSJ3 Vegeta, etc.). Could prove a serious fight for Goku, and Broly would be the biggest threat of course in his LSSJ form. Then Goku has to figure out how to beat the Pink Dildo Man.
- U18 Vegeta vs U3 Raichi Similar to the Goku vs Raichi, except Vegeta isn't as nice as Goku so Vegeta would probably talk crap to Raichi even if he isn't like U13 Vegeta, he certainly won't be as cocky, but if Raichi has Ghost SSJ3 Vegeta and Ghost LSSJ Broly then U18 Vegeta would be forced to surpass SSJ2 or quickly eliminate Raichi. Then Vegeta has to figure out how to beat the Pink Dildo Man.
- U17 Cell vs U5 XXI Though not much is known about XXI, Cell seems to have zero "obvious" weaknesses for XXI to exploit (would XXI know to go for the nucleus with his magic?). If Cell can split himself up then XXI can't just teleport him. XXI could try disintegrating him but if Cell reinforced his nucleus that's just gonna make Cell stronger. This could wind up giving XXI more trouble than just about any fighter could.
- U16 Vegetto vs U4 Buu Both being the most powerful characters (besides Broly) in DBM their matchup would be quite impressive though Zen Buu would almost certainly win. Vegetto knows how to put up a serious fight against even this god-like djinn.
- U18 Uub vs U16 Bra Though Bra is very likely to win I'd love to see the dialog in this fight. I feel like it could be quite intense, I imagine Bra might get surprised by Uub's Transcendental Kaioken for a moment though she would tank it more easily than Goku would. Uub could try using some magic abilities but currently his abilities there are limited. And who knows what could come out of this fight, maybe something "special".
- U9 Yamcha vs U3 Raditz This one is a joke one as well. Pay no mind. Obviously Yamcha would win of course but still. We need everyone to see who is the best Raditz to have ever Raditz.
- U13 Raditz vs U13 Nappa So we know who is the strongest Saiyan (Vegeta) and the second strongest Saiyan (Kakarotto) and Raditz and Nappa are not even close to either, but which one gets to claim 3rd Place and which one is the weakest?
- U13 Kakarotto vs U6 Bojack These two madmen deserve each other, especially for all the Pans they hurt in the making of DBM.
- U13 Kakarotto vs U8 Frieza Imagine Frieza's reaction if Kakarotto using SSJ Oozaru against him. Frieza might pass out before the fight begins. Though I admit, this is another terrible one like Yamcha vs Raditz would be.
- U9 Tien vs U8 Cooler Given the human character's history with Cooler in U9, I thought maybe it would be cool to match up Tien against Cooler to see how Tien would stack up.
- U9 Videl vs U8 Cooler Similar to U9 Tien, though I suspect if she could beat a Cell Jr like she did she might also be able to beat Cooler in a similar fashion.
Anyone got other interesting matchup ideas?
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Post by Skarr on Sept 13, 2021 1:15:31 GMT
Those sound like they would be fun fights especially the ones involving my main man Gast. Here are some I would've liked to see:
U7 Gast vs U3 Hirudegarn
I mentioned in a different thread that I thought it would be cool if Gast had an improved Dragon Fist with Porunga instead.
U11 Buu vs U3 Hirudegarn
It would be fun to see what Buu would try in this fight. He probably can't figure out Hirudegarn's weakness but maybe he turns the smoke into giant cotton candy or something.
U20 Broly vs U2 Neko Majin
The invincible juggernaut vs an invincible gag character.
U11 Dabura vs U6 Bojack
Both are around Perfect Cell. Bojack might be slightly stronger but Dabura has magic so could be an interesting fight.
U18 Goku vs U13 Kakarotto
A one-sided fight but I assume Goku would hold back to Kakarotto's level. I don't think they've interacted in the tournament so it would be cool to see what Goku would say.
U18 Uub vs U18 Vegeta
Uub respects Vegeta as one of his elders and I think Vegeta likes that Uub is only one besides Pan from the next generation who likes to train. After a short warm-up, Uub would use his Max Kaioken to force Vegeta to go all out.
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Post by drewsaga on Sept 13, 2021 2:04:15 GMT
Those sound like they would be fun fights especially the ones involving my main man Gast. Here are some I would've liked to see: U7 Gast vs U3 Hirudegarn I mentioned in a different thread that I thought it would be cool if Gast had an improved Dragon Fist with Porunga instead. U11 Buu vs U3 Hirudegarn It would be fun to see what Buu would try in this fight. He probably can't figure out Hirudegarn's weakness but maybe he turns the smoke into giant cotton candy or something. U20 Broly vs U2 Neko Majin The invincible juggernaut vs an invincible gag character. U11 Dabura vs U6 Bojack Both are around Perfect Cell. Bojack might be slightly stronger but Dabura has magic so could be an interesting fight. U18 Goku vs U13 Kakarotto A one-sided fight but I assume Goku would hold back to Kakarotto's level. I don't think they've interacted in the tournament so it would be cool to see what Goku would say. U18 Uub vs U18 Vegeta Uub respects Vegeta as one of his elders and I think Vegeta likes that Uub is only one besides Pan from the next generation who likes to train. After a short warm-up, Uub would use his Max Kaioken to force Vegeta to go all out. For Dabura vs Bojack, I think Dabura would just simply win against Bojack, Dabura is a bit more skilled and he can just spit on him. It's not like Bojack can rip his head off like Cell did.
I think Uub could very well defeat Vegeta or force him to use his secret power...you think Vegeta would deem Uub worthy of him using his true power against him if he needs to? I think Vegeta might sooner forfeit and just fight Goku after the tourney against Cell possibly if Cell proves to be too much for him in his SSJ2 form which he is.
Pitting U20 Broly against any gag characters is just asking for trouble lol.
I think switching Vegeta and Goku's positions in the tourney would be very interesting for some matches. Like Goku vs King Vegeta, Goku vs Trunks, Vegeta vs Frieza, Goku vs Kakarotto, Uub vs Vegeta and Goku vs Cell (a rematch though then again Vegeta vs Cell is also a rematch hence the chapter title "Return Match for Super Vegeta")
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 13, 2021 5:02:37 GMT
See if Freeza was at least a SS2 level opponent I think the Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch in the tournament would have been more obvious outcome than Vegeta vs Cell IMO. Let's say if Freeza in his natural form through training reached Perfect Cell level and had an augmented form to push him to SS2. We could have gotten a U18 Vegeta fighting against Freeza and fans would have lost their minds more than Vegeta vs. Cell.
I think there is a way to make the Frost Demons stronger without going overboard like Golden Freeza plot and they can still stay weaker than U13 Vegeta, Cell, and U4 Buu, which still leaves them the weakest of the main villains outside of Demon King Piccolo. The Frost Demons aren't all powerful, but buffed up enough to make other matches more entertaining and to give them a cool alternate history to make specials for them. Let's say U8 Cooler vs. U12 Trunks gets changed slightly (maybe we change the order of this match to make it come early so we could put Vegeta in Goku's place to get the eventual Vegeta vs Freeza match while keeping U12 Trunks vs U18 Vegeta match in place). U18 Piccolo and U18 Vegeta thinking Trunks has this in the bag and think the Frost Demons probably haven't trained, but Gohan brings up the fact that U8 Freeza is in his true form, not reduction forms to point out there were some changes in U8. Trunks goes Super Saiyan after he makes the quip about how he will now have defeated all three members of Cooler's family. Instead of an easy victory Cooler in his true form is able to keep up with Trunks, surprising everyone. We get a intense battle between the two of them. They are evenly matched. Eventually Cooler tries to win by transforming, which gives Trunks the opening he needs and defeats him mid-transformation. That could be a fun gag how U18 realize they let their enemies transform instead of trying to beat them before they do it and everyone turns to Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan who are all guilty of this. The match stays the same with Trunks winning, not even revealing his new USS method, but it shows us U8 is stronger than most of the characters first thought. It makes the audience question how much stronger Freeza and his family is. The other fights still stay the same.
When we get to U8 Freeza vs U13 Nappa we don't get a gag of Nappa insulting Freeza then giving up before Freeza can do anything. Instead we see U13 Nappa became a Super Saiyan, probably still a weak one, but one none the less. He thinks he'll easily crush Freeza. Freeza like with Cooler shows he is much stronger than he was 30 years ago. Freeza slowly, but surely demonstrates he is superior to Nappa the same way Cold did with Bardock in the real comic itself. Again it is surprising to see a Frost Demon is besting a Super Saiyan. We get to see sadist Freeza who enjoys dashing all of Nappa's best efforts and slowly shattering his confidence until Freeza captures Nappa in his energy ball and tosses him into U13 Vegeta. Freeza gets the bad ass line of how its a gift to the Saiyans who think they can oppose the superior Frost Demons. U13 Vegeta would be pissed at such disrespect. It makes more sense than what the comic did with Ginyu throwing U3 Bardock at U18 and Goku going SS3 to stop it. It doesn't make Freeza stupid strong, but it does add some excitement for future matches, especially if U18 Vegeta is in the bracket that where he faces Freeza instead of U18 Goku. If people thinks this steals glory for Cold I would say during his match with Bardock. Cold transforms into his true form before his match with Bardock, shocking everyone with how powerful he is. As soon as their match starts Cold just tanks everything SS1 Bardock throws at him and one shots him when Bardock is left wondering why his vision of defeated Cold isn't happening like he thought. Cold still gets to do more and show off his power unlike the original manga and still stays the strongest Frost Demon.
The third round would give us the long anticipated Freeza vs Vegeta match. U8 Freeza would be feeling himself and think he'll easily defeat Vegeta too. This is the chance for dialogue to show us how much Vegeta has grown and give him the chance to deflect Freeza's taunts and tell him how in a way he is thankful to Freeza for forcing him into servitude since it help put him down on the path that lead him to living a happy and fulfilling life. How he sees how petty and small Freeza truly is now. Of course that upsets Freeza who decides to show reveal he achieved augmented form that pushes him to SS2 levels. Vegeta turns into SS2 and makes some comment on how maybe this match won't be a complete waste of his time. We get an intense match where Freeza gets to show off his full power at last and we see him at his most arrogant only to have Vegeta match him blow for blow. As the battle drags on Freeza would slowly start getting frustrated at ow Vegeta of all people is able to match him in power. U18 Vegeta brings up how he was also like that, so sure of his power that when he was challenged he couldn't stand it and would losing his cool as a spoiled child. This would demonstrate how Vegeta's growth by acknowledging to Freeza of all people that his beliefs as being #1 in the whole universe was misplaced and how he has learned to enjoy a challenges at last like Goku. Vegeta acknowledging how used to hate Goku for being the one who defeated Freeza and not himself, but now realizes there was is no shame in Goku defeating Freeza and gave him a goal to aim even higher as a fighter.
Freeza tries to hit Vegeta only for Vegeta to catch it. We see the classic smirk and Vegeta reveals while he accepted Goku defeated Freeza in their universe he is looking forward to defeating Freeza here. SS2 Vegeta starts powering up and reveals he hasn't used his full power in SS2 form yet. The tide turns against Freeza. Vegeta starts dominating him in the fight. All the confidence Freeza had built up from crushing Napp and seeing dad crush Bardock is smashed to bits. Just like on Namek we see Freeza lose it and his attacks get sloppier and sloppier, which Vegeta takes advantage of. Vegeta rightfully calls Freeza out as a child for losing his cool and that even if Freeza did beat him that he would just lose next round and his dreams of immortality will stay just that dreams. Vegeta finishes Freeza off like how he did U13 Kakarot. It is more entertaining than another Goku vs Freeza match, since Freeza was buffed up enough that he gave SS2 Vegeta a worthy match it makes it more exciting to watch. At the same time Vegeta reveals he can power up more in SS2 form and show he has surpassed Freeza's power and has become a better person. Freeza still gets humiliated. The fandom wins every which way. Freeza haters still get to see Freeza brutally crushed and humiliated. Since Freeza won easily against U13 Nappa before it builds him up so the fall is so much harder and more impactful for him. Vegeta fans get to see Vegeta beat Freeza at last and it is more rewarding since Vegeta also acknowledge the old him defeating Freeza on Namek isn't what he needed. It show maturity that he accepted Goku's victories do not diminish his own accomplishments and still allows him to savory getting to beat Freeza here at the tournament. For Freeza lovers they at least get to see a stronger Freeza who got to have some good fights in the tournament before the time came for him to eat humble pie.
As for Cold vs. Bra in this new scenario I would just change it so Bra turns down the bet. I would show she is tempted and wants to prove to Cold she can beat him without Super Saiyan transformations, but ultimately I would have Bra say no because she doesn't want to risk losing since she made a promise to U19. That would show despite being abrasive U16 Bra still capable of having empathy for others and finally starts showing some of her better qualities that we keep hearing about, but haven't seen as much as we probably should. Bra and Cold not having a big drawn out fight wasn't something people expected anyway and having at least one quick match in the third round would be acceptable for audiences. The story stays mostly the same without any drastic changes. With the Majin Revolt there could be harder with stronger Freeza, Cooler, and Cold in this scenario, but that could be changed a bit if we left some more fighters and maybe buffed up U16 Piccolo and U18 Piccolo to SS2 level after 27 years of training.
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Post by drewsaga on Sept 13, 2021 20:50:42 GMT
See if Freeza was at least a SS2 level opponent I think the Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch in the tournament would have been more obvious outcome than Vegeta vs Cell IMO. Let's say if Freeza in his natural form through training reached Perfect Cell level and had an augmented form to push him to SS2. We could have gotten a U18 Vegeta fighting against Freeza and fans would have lost their minds more than Vegeta vs. Cell. I think there is a way to make the Frost Demons stronger without going overboard like Golden Freeza plot and they can still stay weaker than U13 Vegeta, Cell, and U4 Buu, which still leaves them the weakest of the main villains outside of Demon King Piccolo. The Frost Demons aren't all powerful, but buffed up enough to make other matches more entertaining and to give them a cool alternate history to make specials for them. Let's say U8 Cooler vs. U12 Trunks gets changed slightly (maybe we change the order of this match to make it come early so we could put Vegeta in Goku's place to get the eventual Vegeta vs Freeza match while keeping U12 Trunks vs U18 Vegeta match in place). U18 Piccolo and U18 Vegeta thinking Trunks has this in the bag and think the Frost Demons probably haven't trained, but Gohan brings up the fact that U8 Freeza is in his true form, not reduction forms to point out there were some changes in U8. Trunks goes Super Saiyan after he makes the quip about how he will now have defeated all three members of Cooler's family. Instead of an easy victory Cooler in his true form is able to keep up with Trunks, surprising everyone. We get a intense battle between the two of them. They are evenly matched. Eventually Cooler tries to win by transforming, which gives Trunks the opening he needs and defeats him mid-transformation. That could be a fun gag how U18 realize they let their enemies transform instead of trying to beat them before they do it and everyone turns to Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan who are all guilty of this. The match stays the same with Trunks winning, not even revealing his new USS method, but it shows us U8 is stronger than most of the characters first thought. It makes the audience question how much stronger Freeza and his family is. The other fights still stay the same. When we get to U8 Freeza vs U13 Nappa we don't get a gag of Nappa insulting Freeza then giving up before Freeza can do anything. Instead we see U13 Nappa became a Super Saiyan, probably still a weak one, but one none the less. He thinks he'll easily crush Freeza. Freeza like with Cooler shows he is much stronger than he was 30 years ago. Freeza slowly, but surely demonstrates he is superior to Nappa the same way Cold did with Bardock in the real comic itself. Again it is surprising to see a Frost Demon is besting a Super Saiyan. We get to see sadist Freeza who enjoys dashing all of Nappa's best efforts and slowly shattering his confidence until Freeza captures Nappa in his energy ball and tosses him into U13 Vegeta. Freeza gets the bad ass line of how its a gift to the Saiyans who think they can oppose the superior Frost Demons. U13 Vegeta would be pissed at such disrespect. It makes more sense than what the comic did with Ginyu throwing U3 Bardock at U18 and Goku going SS3 to stop it. It doesn't make Freeza stupid strong, but it does add some excitement for future matches, especially if U18 Vegeta is in the bracket that where he faces Freeza instead of U18 Goku. If people thinks this steals glory for Cold I would say during his match with Bardock. Cold transforms into his true form before his match with Bardock, shocking everyone with how powerful he is. As soon as their match starts Cold just tanks everything SS1 Bardock throws at him and one shots him when Bardock is left wondering why his vision of defeated Cold isn't happening like he thought. Cold still gets to do more and show off his power unlike the original manga and still stays the strongest Frost Demon. The third round would give us the long anticipated Freeza vs Vegeta match. U8 Freeza would be feeling himself and think he'll easily defeat Vegeta too. This is the chance for dialogue to show us how much Vegeta has grown and give him the chance to deflect Freeza's taunts and tell him how in a way he is thankful to Freeza for forcing him into servitude since it help put him down on the path that lead him to living a happy and fulfilling life. How he sees how petty and small Freeza truly is now. Of course that upsets Freeza who decides to show reveal he achieved augmented form that pushes him to SS2 levels. Vegeta turns into SS2 and makes some comment on how maybe this match won't be a complete waste of his time. We get an intense match where Freeza gets to show off his full power at last and we see him at his most arrogant only to have Vegeta match him blow for blow. As the battle drags on Freeza would slowly start getting frustrated at ow Vegeta of all people is able to match him in power. U18 Vegeta brings up how he was also like that, so sure of his power that when he was challenged he couldn't stand it and would losing his cool as a spoiled child. This would demonstrate how Vegeta's growth by acknowledging to Freeza of all people that his beliefs as being #1 in the whole universe was misplaced and how he has learned to enjoy a challenges at last like Goku. Vegeta acknowledging how used to hate Goku for being the one who defeated Freeza and not himself, but now realizes there was is no shame in Goku defeating Freeza and gave him a goal to aim even higher as a fighter. Freeza tries to hit Vegeta only for Vegeta to catch it. We see the classic smirk and Vegeta reveals while he accepted Goku defeated Freeza in their universe he is looking forward to defeating Freeza here. SS2 Vegeta starts powering up and reveals he hasn't used his full power in SS2 form yet. The tide turns against Freeza. Vegeta starts dominating him in the fight. All the confidence Freeza had built up from crushing Napp and seeing dad crush Bardock is smashed to bits. Just like on Namek we see Freeza lose it and his attacks get sloppier and sloppier, which Vegeta takes advantage of. Vegeta rightfully calls Freeza out as a child for losing his cool and that even if Freeza did beat him that he would just lose next round and his dreams of immortality will stay just that dreams. Vegeta finishes Freeza off like how he did U13 Kakarot. It is more entertaining than another Goku vs Freeza match, since Freeza was buffed up enough that he gave SS2 Vegeta a worthy match it makes it more exciting to watch. At the same time Vegeta reveals he can power up more in SS2 form and show he has surpassed Freeza's power and has become a better person. Freeza still gets humiliated. The fandom wins every which way. Freeza haters still get to see Freeza brutally crushed and humiliated. Since Freeza won easily against U13 Nappa before it builds him up so the fall is so much harder and more impactful for him. Vegeta fans get to see Vegeta beat Freeza at last and it is more rewarding since Vegeta also acknowledge the old him defeating Freeza on Namek isn't what he needed. It show maturity that he accepted Goku's victories do not diminish his own accomplishments and still allows him to savory getting to beat Freeza here at the tournament. For Freeza lovers they at least get to see a stronger Freeza who got to have some good fights in the tournament before the time came for him to eat humble pie. As for Cold vs. Bra in this new scenario I would just change it so Bra turns down the bet. I would show she is tempted and wants to prove to Cold she can beat him without Super Saiyan transformations, but ultimately I would have Bra say no because she doesn't want to risk losing since she made a promise to U19. That would show despite being abrasive U16 Bra still capable of having empathy for others and finally starts showing some of her better qualities that we keep hearing about, but haven't seen as much as we probably should. Bra and Cold not having a big drawn out fight wasn't something people expected anyway and having at least one quick match in the third round would be acceptable for audiences. The story stays mostly the same without any drastic changes. With the Majin Revolt there could be harder with stronger Freeza, Cooler, and Cold in this scenario, but that could be changed a bit if we left some more fighters and maybe buffed up U16 Piccolo and U18 Piccolo to SS2 level after 27 years of training. A Vegeta vs Frieza where Frieza had access to the 5th and 6th Forms like Cold did and was SSJ2 level would have actually been glorious, but I really don't think Frieza would have stood a chance against U18 Vegeta unless he was at least low-SSJ3 tier at least. U13 Vegeta is also SSJ2 level but if I was a betting man I would say U18 Vegeta could handily beat U13 Vegeta despite having the same SSJ level (again, this isn't counting Vegeta of U13 going SSJ3 which would be a far more even battle in comparison).I don't think it would be very believable if Frieza or Cooler ever became that strong necessarily anyways without transformations like Cold did but would Frieza think to surpass his natural form like Cooler did?
As for the Majin crisis, why not have both Piccolos do the fusion dance? It made no sense that he didn't especially when they had to deal with Bra (and possibly Cell who was also a powerhouse), at least it would be harder for Bra to kill them. Though that's not exactly relevant to the tourney in that Piccolo are not competitors.
Then again, your suggested Vegeta vs Frieza matchup would be phenomenal and honestly is a reasonable middle ground between the ridiculous power-ups Frieza got in DBS with no explanation and being a complete butt of the joke and a measuring stick that is short (and I ain't just talking short in height) in DBM (almost like Yamcha is in DBZ).
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Post by godjacob on Sept 13, 2021 21:33:06 GMT
U-20 Broly vs. U-4 Buu
-A different kind of cold open battle between two of the top tiers, Broly managed to overcome (Though PIS but semantics) Ultra Buu but can his pure power overcome the likes of Zen Buu?
U-12 Trunks vs. U-3 Tapion
-A battle of skilled swordsman that could open up Tapion showing more stuff outside of his Hirudegarn summon, with Hirudegarn itself being an obstacle Trunks would have to try and overcome (Or more accurately get around).
U-7 Gast Carcolh vs. U-16 Vegito
-Again a battle of heavyweights, Gast jobbing to Ghost Vegeta aside, and would serve a similar function as the match with XXI. Gast using more mystical power to get around Vegito's brute force and martial arts skill.
U-18 Goku vs. U-11 Buu
-The fight we never got to see a proper finish to where we can see more good Buu magic zaniness and perhaps get a more visible demonstration of just how far Goku has come since the end of the Buu Arc.
U-2 Arele vs. U-2 Neko Majin
-Battle of the gags, what more is there to say?
U-18 Vegeta vs. U-8 Frieza
-While I'd prefer Frieza not being an utter joke character, if you are gonna write him as one you could least give Vegeta a cathartic beatdown of him to bring that arc full circle rather than a gimmicky Goku/Frieza rematch.
U-16 Bra vs. U-18 Uub
-Bra is in a hard spot where she is either too strong against foes (Pretty much anyone) or too weak (Broly, Zen Buu, Vegito) and this honestly would be no different. Still seeing a battle of pupils and Uub try everything and the kitchen sink to overcome the powerful prodigy would make an interesting thematic contest if nothing else.
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Post by maximusthered2431 on Sept 14, 2021 2:12:59 GMT
I agree with U18 Vegeta vs U8 Frezia.
Two fights I want to see are two fights I'm actually surprised we never got to in the majin rebellion:
U12 Android 16 VS U13 Kakarotto: I feel like it's been hinted Android 16 wants wants kill a version of Goku and that seemed like a good excuse. Wonder if we will see it happen before everything is said and done.
U17 Cell vs U11 Majin Buu: Two major villains with major regenerative power. I deff expected this fight to happen during the revolt and I guess it can't happen now with everyone in U11 back in their own univsrse. I almost want to try and make my own special about it 🤣. I know Cell is stronger but it would be interesting to see how he dealt with Fat Buus crazy powers. U18 Gohan ended him quick but I bet Cell would make it an interesting fight
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 14, 2021 4:00:16 GMT
See if Freeza was at least a SS2 level opponent I think the Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch in the tournament would have been more obvious outcome than Vegeta vs Cell IMO. Let's say if Freeza in his natural form through training reached Perfect Cell level and had an augmented form to push him to SS2. We could have gotten a U18 Vegeta fighting against Freeza and fans would have lost their minds more than Vegeta vs. Cell. I think there is a way to make the Frost Demons stronger without going overboard like Golden Freeza plot and they can still stay weaker than U13 Vegeta, Cell, and U4 Buu, which still leaves them the weakest of the main villains outside of Demon King Piccolo. The Frost Demons aren't all powerful, but buffed up enough to make other matches more entertaining and to give them a cool alternate history to make specials for them. Let's say U8 Cooler vs. U12 Trunks gets changed slightly (maybe we change the order of this match to make it come early so we could put Vegeta in Goku's place to get the eventual Vegeta vs Freeza match while keeping U12 Trunks vs U18 Vegeta match in place). U18 Piccolo and U18 Vegeta thinking Trunks has this in the bag and think the Frost Demons probably haven't trained, but Gohan brings up the fact that U8 Freeza is in his true form, not reduction forms to point out there were some changes in U8. Trunks goes Super Saiyan after he makes the quip about how he will now have defeated all three members of Cooler's family. Instead of an easy victory Cooler in his true form is able to keep up with Trunks, surprising everyone. We get a intense battle between the two of them. They are evenly matched. Eventually Cooler tries to win by transforming, which gives Trunks the opening he needs and defeats him mid-transformation. That could be a fun gag how U18 realize they let their enemies transform instead of trying to beat them before they do it and everyone turns to Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan who are all guilty of this. The match stays the same with Trunks winning, not even revealing his new USS method, but it shows us U8 is stronger than most of the characters first thought. It makes the audience question how much stronger Freeza and his family is. The other fights still stay the same. When we get to U8 Freeza vs U13 Nappa we don't get a gag of Nappa insulting Freeza then giving up before Freeza can do anything. Instead we see U13 Nappa became a Super Saiyan, probably still a weak one, but one none the less. He thinks he'll easily crush Freeza. Freeza like with Cooler shows he is much stronger than he was 30 years ago. Freeza slowly, but surely demonstrates he is superior to Nappa the same way Cold did with Bardock in the real comic itself. Again it is surprising to see a Frost Demon is besting a Super Saiyan. We get to see sadist Freeza who enjoys dashing all of Nappa's best efforts and slowly shattering his confidence until Freeza captures Nappa in his energy ball and tosses him into U13 Vegeta. Freeza gets the bad ass line of how its a gift to the Saiyans who think they can oppose the superior Frost Demons. U13 Vegeta would be pissed at such disrespect. It makes more sense than what the comic did with Ginyu throwing U3 Bardock at U18 and Goku going SS3 to stop it. It doesn't make Freeza stupid strong, but it does add some excitement for future matches, especially if U18 Vegeta is in the bracket that where he faces Freeza instead of U18 Goku. If people thinks this steals glory for Cold I would say during his match with Bardock. Cold transforms into his true form before his match with Bardock, shocking everyone with how powerful he is. As soon as their match starts Cold just tanks everything SS1 Bardock throws at him and one shots him when Bardock is left wondering why his vision of defeated Cold isn't happening like he thought. Cold still gets to do more and show off his power unlike the original manga and still stays the strongest Frost Demon. The third round would give us the long anticipated Freeza vs Vegeta match. U8 Freeza would be feeling himself and think he'll easily defeat Vegeta too. This is the chance for dialogue to show us how much Vegeta has grown and give him the chance to deflect Freeza's taunts and tell him how in a way he is thankful to Freeza for forcing him into servitude since it help put him down on the path that lead him to living a happy and fulfilling life. How he sees how petty and small Freeza truly is now. Of course that upsets Freeza who decides to show reveal he achieved augmented form that pushes him to SS2 levels. Vegeta turns into SS2 and makes some comment on how maybe this match won't be a complete waste of his time. We get an intense match where Freeza gets to show off his full power at last and we see him at his most arrogant only to have Vegeta match him blow for blow. As the battle drags on Freeza would slowly start getting frustrated at ow Vegeta of all people is able to match him in power. U18 Vegeta brings up how he was also like that, so sure of his power that when he was challenged he couldn't stand it and would losing his cool as a spoiled child. This would demonstrate how Vegeta's growth by acknowledging to Freeza of all people that his beliefs as being #1 in the whole universe was misplaced and how he has learned to enjoy a challenges at last like Goku. Vegeta acknowledging how used to hate Goku for being the one who defeated Freeza and not himself, but now realizes there was is no shame in Goku defeating Freeza and gave him a goal to aim even higher as a fighter. Freeza tries to hit Vegeta only for Vegeta to catch it. We see the classic smirk and Vegeta reveals while he accepted Goku defeated Freeza in their universe he is looking forward to defeating Freeza here. SS2 Vegeta starts powering up and reveals he hasn't used his full power in SS2 form yet. The tide turns against Freeza. Vegeta starts dominating him in the fight. All the confidence Freeza had built up from crushing Napp and seeing dad crush Bardock is smashed to bits. Just like on Namek we see Freeza lose it and his attacks get sloppier and sloppier, which Vegeta takes advantage of. Vegeta rightfully calls Freeza out as a child for losing his cool and that even if Freeza did beat him that he would just lose next round and his dreams of immortality will stay just that dreams. Vegeta finishes Freeza off like how he did U13 Kakarot. It is more entertaining than another Goku vs Freeza match, since Freeza was buffed up enough that he gave SS2 Vegeta a worthy match it makes it more exciting to watch. At the same time Vegeta reveals he can power up more in SS2 form and show he has surpassed Freeza's power and has become a better person. Freeza still gets humiliated. The fandom wins every which way. Freeza haters still get to see Freeza brutally crushed and humiliated. Since Freeza won easily against U13 Nappa before it builds him up so the fall is so much harder and more impactful for him. Vegeta fans get to see Vegeta beat Freeza at last and it is more rewarding since Vegeta also acknowledge the old him defeating Freeza on Namek isn't what he needed. It show maturity that he accepted Goku's victories do not diminish his own accomplishments and still allows him to savory getting to beat Freeza here at the tournament. For Freeza lovers they at least get to see a stronger Freeza who got to have some good fights in the tournament before the time came for him to eat humble pie. As for Cold vs. Bra in this new scenario I would just change it so Bra turns down the bet. I would show she is tempted and wants to prove to Cold she can beat him without Super Saiyan transformations, but ultimately I would have Bra say no because she doesn't want to risk losing since she made a promise to U19. That would show despite being abrasive U16 Bra still capable of having empathy for others and finally starts showing some of her better qualities that we keep hearing about, but haven't seen as much as we probably should. Bra and Cold not having a big drawn out fight wasn't something people expected anyway and having at least one quick match in the third round would be acceptable for audiences. The story stays mostly the same without any drastic changes. With the Majin Revolt there could be harder with stronger Freeza, Cooler, and Cold in this scenario, but that could be changed a bit if we left some more fighters and maybe buffed up U16 Piccolo and U18 Piccolo to SS2 level after 27 years of training. A Vegeta vs Frieza where Frieza had access to the 5th and 6th Forms like Cold did and was SSJ2 level would have actually been glorious, but I really don't think Frieza would have stood a chance against U18 Vegeta unless he was at least low-SSJ3 tier at least. U13 Vegeta is also SSJ2 level but if I was a betting man I would say U18 Vegeta could handily beat U13 Vegeta despite having the same SSJ level (again, this isn't counting Vegeta of U13 going SSJ3 which would be a far more even battle in comparison).I don't think it would be very believable if Frieza or Cooler ever became that strong necessarily anyways without transformations like Cold did but would Frieza think to surpass his natural form like Cooler did?
As for the Majin crisis, why not have both Piccolos do the fusion dance? It made no sense that he didn't especially when they had to deal with Bra (and possibly Cell who was also a powerhouse), at least it would be harder for Bra to kill them. Though that's not exactly relevant to the tourney in that Piccolo are not competitors.
Then again, your suggested Vegeta vs Frieza matchup would be phenomenal and honestly is a reasonable middle ground between the ridiculous power-ups Frieza got in DBS with no explanation and being a complete butt of the joke and a measuring stick that is short (and I ain't just talking short in height) in DBM (almost like Yamcha is in DBZ).
I admit my alternative fight here would change what DBM established about the Frost Demons, so it is more of a combined how I would change the fight/plot and setting up a new alternate fight at the same time. This sort piggybacks on an idea I had of alternative Universe 8 that would allow the Frost Demons to grow stronger, but still keep them from going overboard. I won't derail this thread by explaining any more, but if you are interested I wrote a post about it in What universe would you add? thread. I think it is in one of the later pages. It goes into more detail on how the Frost Demons would start training, and how they would encounter DBZ villains, like cyborgs, Super Saiyan Vegeta, Broly, and Babidi and Dabura and how each encounter had them squeak by and encourage them to continue training in case another unknown stronger enemy showed up to oppose them.
Mostly I just feel like it is easier to buff up the Frost Demons than what DBM proper gave us. They were cool ideas, but considering how Salagir has keep coming up with new ways to keep the Frost Demons relevant and still in the story that have mixed results it just seems easier to create a scenario where Freeza's near loss on Namek inspired him to train, but still keep them from getting too strong like Golden Freeza. After 30 years of training Freeza and Cooler are still only Perfect Cell level and can only get to SS2 levels with augmented forms. They are still far from the strongest villains at the tournament. Cold keeps all his transformation, except the second augmented form, and title as the strongest Frost Demon (without the Ginyu plot at all, so Cold who trained and achieved all this success on his own). Cold in his true form is SS2 level, while his augmented form puts him between SS2 and SS3. He only has the one augmented form. Again Cold is still no match for SS3 tier opponents, which most of the other former main villains of DB are at this point. I think it is at least a satisfying middle ground that would make U8 fights more entertaining to watch, but still allow them to get their comeuppance in the tournament that they eventually get.
In the end SS2 U18 Vegeta would still be much stronger than Freeza. Vegeta would hold back for most of the fight until he got feel for Freeza than would start using more of his power to dominate Freeza. It is like how SS2 Vegeta probably could have dominated U12 Trunks in a flash, but he clearly held back for later rounds. Realistically I think more people would want a Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch over Vegeta vs. Cell. If Vegeta fought Freeza in Goku's place he would probably still do that mental technique thing, which a lot of people didn't like, for the sake of spicing the match up like we get in DBM proper. Again I think it is easier to buff Freeza up a bit so he can at least fight on SS2 level to make a fight with Vegeta bigger and more grand for people to read about, but still leaves Freeza hopelessly outclassed by the other big players in the tournament, including U1, U4, U5, U7, U11, U13, U16, U17, U18, U19, and U20. I honestly don't think we are missing much if the Ginyu plot was lost.
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Post by drewsaga on Sept 14, 2021 23:42:33 GMT
A Vegeta vs Frieza where Frieza had access to the 5th and 6th Forms like Cold did and was SSJ2 level would have actually been glorious, but I really don't think Frieza would have stood a chance against U18 Vegeta unless he was at least low-SSJ3 tier at least. U13 Vegeta is also SSJ2 level but if I was a betting man I would say U18 Vegeta could handily beat U13 Vegeta despite having the same SSJ level (again, this isn't counting Vegeta of U13 going SSJ3 which would be a far more even battle in comparison).I don't think it would be very believable if Frieza or Cooler ever became that strong necessarily anyways without transformations like Cold did but would Frieza think to surpass his natural form like Cooler did?
As for the Majin crisis, why not have both Piccolos do the fusion dance? It made no sense that he didn't especially when they had to deal with Bra (and possibly Cell who was also a powerhouse), at least it would be harder for Bra to kill them. Though that's not exactly relevant to the tourney in that Piccolo are not competitors.
Then again, your suggested Vegeta vs Frieza matchup would be phenomenal and honestly is a reasonable middle ground between the ridiculous power-ups Frieza got in DBS with no explanation and being a complete butt of the joke and a measuring stick that is short (and I ain't just talking short in height) in DBM (almost like Yamcha is in DBZ).
I admit my alternative fight here would change what DBM established about the Frost Demons, so it is more of a combined how I would change the fight/plot and setting up a new alternate fight at the same time. This sort piggybacks on an idea I had of alternative Universe 8 that would allow the Frost Demons to grow stronger, but still keep them from going overboard. I won't derail this thread by explaining any more, but if you are interested I wrote a post about it in What universe would you add? thread. I think it is in one of the later pages. It goes into more detail on how the Frost Demons would start training, and how they would encounter DBZ villains, like cyborgs, Super Saiyan Vegeta, Broly, and Babidi and Dabura and how each encounter had them squeak by and encourage them to continue training in case another unknown stronger enemy showed up to oppose them.
Mostly I just feel like it is easier to buff up the Frost Demons than what DBM proper gave us. They were cool ideas, but considering how Salagir has keep coming up with new ways to keep the Frost Demons relevant and still in the story that have mixed results it just seems easier to create a scenario where Freeza's near loss on Namek inspired him to train, but still keep them from getting too strong like Golden Freeza. After 30 years of training Freeza and Cooler are still only Perfect Cell level and can only get to SS2 levels with augmented forms. They are still far from the strongest villains at the tournament. Cold keeps all his transformation, except the second augmented form, and title as the strongest Frost Demon (without the Ginyu plot at all, so Cold who trained and achieved all this success on his own). Cold in his true form is SS2 level, while his augmented form puts him between SS2 and SS3. He only has the one augmented form. Again Cold is still no match for SS3 tier opponents, which most of the other former main villains of DB are at this point. I think it is at least a satisfying middle ground that would make U8 fights more entertaining to watch, but still allow them to get their comeuppance in the tournament that they eventually get.
In the end SS2 U18 Vegeta would still be much stronger than Freeza. Vegeta would hold back for most of the fight until he got feel for Freeza than would start using more of his power to dominate Freeza. It is like how SS2 Vegeta probably could have dominated U12 Trunks in a flash, but he clearly held back for later rounds. Realistically I think more people would want a Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch over Vegeta vs. Cell. If Vegeta fought Freeza in Goku's place he would probably still do that mental technique thing, which a lot of people didn't like, for the sake of spicing the match up like we get in DBM proper. Again I think it is easier to buff Freeza up a bit so he can at least fight on SS2 level to make a fight with Vegeta bigger and more grand for people to read about, but still leaves Freeza hopelessly outclassed by the other big players in the tournament, including U1, U4, U5, U7, U11, U13, U16, U17, U18, U19, and U20. I honestly don't think we are missing much if the Ginyu plot was lost.
Yeah, I use to be against the idea and thought that they should stay as fodder but realized, well, they'd still be fodder if they didn't get an absurd powerup but it would at least have been more entertaining. Honestly I wish Goku vs Frieza and Vegeta vs Cell that their opponents could be swapped since Goku vs Cell and Vegeta vs Frieza would be rad. Of course we could still get Goku vs Cell if Cell defeats Vegeta here and now. Even with that in mind wouldn't they still have failed to make it past Round 3? The Frost Demons got outdone by a human (sure, a human that was reincarnated from a powerful and evil pink gum creature but still). I thought the 2nd Augmentation (6th) form was a cool addition (though I think 5th Form Cold's design is better anyways).
As for the Ginyu subplot, I am unsure if that's technically over or not yet. Ginyu is still around and might try swapping bodies, though he could fear Vegetto's power if he even attempts. Maybe when Vegetto is on a rampage and Ginyu tries to switch with Vegetto that Vegetto reveals his soul-destroying power and erases Ginyu from existence, leaving Cold a empty shell (it'd be funny if XXI used his body as a puppet afterwards). There are other interesting subplots like with Raditz's betrayal against Vegeta in U13, U9 Yamcha helping U14 Androids find their humanity back though that's gonna be a problem for #18 sadly since she is out cold still, U6 Bojack and gang though that's not relevant to the tournament anymore and of course XXI and Vegetto though they are more like the main plot than a subplot in the same way that Babidi was more of a major plot than a subplot. Maybe after the tourney Cooler and Frieza fight for rulership over the universe or they both just stay alive and train till they reach the same level of power Ginyu has in Cold's body.
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 15, 2021 3:30:22 GMT
I admit my alternative fight here would change what DBM established about the Frost Demons, so it is more of a combined how I would change the fight/plot and setting up a new alternate fight at the same time. This sort piggybacks on an idea I had of alternative Universe 8 that would allow the Frost Demons to grow stronger, but still keep them from going overboard. I won't derail this thread by explaining any more, but if you are interested I wrote a post about it in What universe would you add? thread. I think it is in one of the later pages. It goes into more detail on how the Frost Demons would start training, and how they would encounter DBZ villains, like cyborgs, Super Saiyan Vegeta, Broly, and Babidi and Dabura and how each encounter had them squeak by and encourage them to continue training in case another unknown stronger enemy showed up to oppose them.
Mostly I just feel like it is easier to buff up the Frost Demons than what DBM proper gave us. They were cool ideas, but considering how Salagir has keep coming up with new ways to keep the Frost Demons relevant and still in the story that have mixed results it just seems easier to create a scenario where Freeza's near loss on Namek inspired him to train, but still keep them from getting too strong like Golden Freeza. After 30 years of training Freeza and Cooler are still only Perfect Cell level and can only get to SS2 levels with augmented forms. They are still far from the strongest villains at the tournament. Cold keeps all his transformation, except the second augmented form, and title as the strongest Frost Demon (without the Ginyu plot at all, so Cold who trained and achieved all this success on his own). Cold in his true form is SS2 level, while his augmented form puts him between SS2 and SS3. He only has the one augmented form. Again Cold is still no match for SS3 tier opponents, which most of the other former main villains of DB are at this point. I think it is at least a satisfying middle ground that would make U8 fights more entertaining to watch, but still allow them to get their comeuppance in the tournament that they eventually get.
In the end SS2 U18 Vegeta would still be much stronger than Freeza. Vegeta would hold back for most of the fight until he got feel for Freeza than would start using more of his power to dominate Freeza. It is like how SS2 Vegeta probably could have dominated U12 Trunks in a flash, but he clearly held back for later rounds. Realistically I think more people would want a Vegeta vs. Freeza rematch over Vegeta vs. Cell. If Vegeta fought Freeza in Goku's place he would probably still do that mental technique thing, which a lot of people didn't like, for the sake of spicing the match up like we get in DBM proper. Again I think it is easier to buff Freeza up a bit so he can at least fight on SS2 level to make a fight with Vegeta bigger and more grand for people to read about, but still leaves Freeza hopelessly outclassed by the other big players in the tournament, including U1, U4, U5, U7, U11, U13, U16, U17, U18, U19, and U20. I honestly don't think we are missing much if the Ginyu plot was lost.
Yeah, I use to be against the idea and thought that they should stay as fodder but realized, well, they'd still be fodder if they didn't get an absurd powerup but it would at least have been more entertaining. Honestly I wish Goku vs Frieza and Vegeta vs Cell that their opponents could be swapped since Goku vs Cell and Vegeta vs Frieza would be rad. Of course we could still get Goku vs Cell if Cell defeats Vegeta here and now. Even with that in mind wouldn't they still have failed to make it past Round 3? The Frost Demons got outdone by a human (sure, a human that was reincarnated from a powerful and evil pink gum creature but still). I thought the 2nd Augmentation (6th) form was a cool addition (though I think 5th Form Cold's design is better anyways).
As for the Ginyu subplot, I am unsure if that's technically over or not yet. Ginyu is still around and might try swapping bodies, though he could fear Vegetto's power if he even attempts. Maybe when Vegetto is on a rampage and Ginyu tries to switch with Vegetto that Vegetto reveals his soul-destroying power and erases Ginyu from existence, leaving Cold a empty shell (it'd be funny if XXI used his body as a puppet afterwards). There are other interesting subplots like with Raditz's betrayal against Vegeta in U13, U9 Yamcha helping U14 Androids find their humanity back though that's gonna be a problem for #18 sadly since she is out cold still, U6 Bojack and gang though that's not relevant to the tournament anymore and of course XXI and Vegetto though they are more like the main plot than a subplot in the same way that Babidi was more of a major plot than a subplot. Maybe after the tourney Cooler and Frieza fight for rulership over the universe or they both just stay alive and train till they reach the same level of power Ginyu has in Cold's body.
The Ginyu plot for me has so far turned into a real letdown. Perhaps I will be eating my words when the comic ends and Salagir finds a awesome way to use Ginyu in the story, but as of right now I think the Ginyu plot is completely unneeded. It seems to exist for the fans who wondered why Ginyu never tried to steal Freeza's body, but the answer seemed to be Ginyu is just that loyal or Freeza is so fast and can react stupid fast that Ginyu trying to steal his body would be suicide. U8 should be about the Frost Demons and as much as I liked Ginyu as a villain on Namek I don't think he should have been the main focus of U8. Looking back on it if I could change how U8 was created cutting out Captain Ginyu plot would have been the first thing I did. There are better ways to introduce Bra isn't pure of heart, better ways to give us stronger Frost Demons, and better ways to use U8 for the story. I was excited about this plot when I saw it in one of Bardock's visions, but it hasn't lived its potential. So far we have squandered a lot of good options, such as Ginyu stealing Bra's body legally, before the countdown ended, and U16 being forced to work with U8 to topple Ginyu. That turned out to be a way to introduce U16 Bra isn't pure of heart to set up the Majin Revolt. There were other ways to introduced that.
The second augmented form has a cool design, but it has a lot of features and detail that I think an artist drawing it for a whole match is probably going to be murder on them. I think a sleeker model would have been better or perhaps buffing up the Frost Demons so Cold just needs on augmented form to be more threatening. If a character should have gotten a second augmented form I personally would have gone with Cooler over Cold/Ginyu. Cooler is trying overthrow his father or stay ahead of Freeza that it would make sense to me that he continued training in U8 and was the one who discovered a second augmented form.
Goku vs. Cell match might be one people might prefer over Vegeta vs. Cell as well. At the very least Goku would have gone SS3 and people would be more chill on why Cell hasn't killed Goku as soon as the match started lol. I really liked Goku vs. Uub match myself. Even in my alternate fight scenario where Freeza gets buffed up to SS2 level and fights U18 Vegeta I still would want to keep Goku and Uub near each other and have their match be the quarterfinals. If I had to switch out Cell for someone who isn't Vegeta I would have put him in the other half of the tournament bracket and would have had Cell's quarter match be against U4 Buu.
There are so many similarities between Cell and Majin Buu that I think people would have been interested in that battle. True, nobody would expect Cell to win because U4 Buu displayed he can power up to SS1 Vegetto levels and it is made clear to us he hasn't shown us his full power yet. The character interaction alone would make this fight, especially the dialogue. I remember years ago back when I still read the DBM novel/comic that U4 Buu parts of the story had him mock how Cell thought he was perfect, but how he was closer to being a perfect being due to how Buu's absorption works so much better than Cell's. It always made me wonder how a conversation between the last two big bads of the original DB manga/anime would go.
In DBM they have traveled a similar path. They were both created to be the ultimate fighter. Both of them developed a love of destruction. They have both evolved several times through out their sagas. In DBM in the universe where they won they ended up traveling the universe to find amusement. Where U4 Buu's absorption gave him lingering love for the Earth that made him unable to destroy the planet and lead to him reviving everyone he killed we see in U17 that Cell followed through on destroying the Earth and went out of his way to make it slow for maximum enjoyment. U4 Buu has grown as a person and become a more morally ambiguous character for DB while Cell is still the same person who is just stronger.
Even in Majin Revolt showed Cell taking a page out of U4 Buu's book by using his smaller Juniors to act his agents the same way Buu uses pieces of himself to do it. I think a match between Cell and Zen Buu would have a lot of promise. I think out of all the characters in DBM Buu would be the best position to deconstruct Cell and and tear apart everything Cell is so proud off, especially Cell's belief that he is truly perfect. Outside of Cell losing to Vegeta I think a crushing defeat at U4 Buu's hands would impact Cell the most. How would Cell react if Zen Buu said Cell was just a second rate version of him? Buu would probably point out how for all Cell's talk that his plans to stop U16 Bra and control the revolt were a joke and how U18 Gohan was smarter and had a far better plan to stop all of this by killing Babidi as soon as possible and how Gohan is superior to Cell after all this time. There is a lot of potential for an entertaining match between Cell and Buu and a lot of head games being played on Cell similar to what Gast did to U3 Piccolo.
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