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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Sept 24, 2021 22:36:21 GMT
Some recent comments about the current fight reminded me of a possible Cell/Bra rematch, that is if the stars alined and they both won their respective matches. Not that I think this will ever happen but it would obviously lead to them facing each other in the tournament if so.
So with Cell winning his bouts and Bra getting by Gast (aka he doesn’t turn off her SSJ2 like he did to Vegetto, somewhat of an ass pull IMO). They would eventually have their rematch but after what we saw in the Majin rebellion this seems to be pretty redundant with her destroying him immediately without a thought.
Main point of this thread being do you think Bra has really shown anything off that would require a SSJ2 Vegetto level character to put her down?
What has she done that a buuhan or better fighter couldn’t have? She did after all take decent damage from the other fighters during the Majin revolt and had to rely on random senzus to recover. If she was actually at such a high power level compared to the rest, was that really needed?
Basically the word of god/Salagir aside, where would you have put her power wise in the story?
Low enough that the others such as Cell could eventually reach her if she’s only twice or so their power as say Buuhan might have been. Or what we’ve seen recently where a possibly serious Vegetto prefers to power up to SSJ3 to put her down quick (that being way over kill and just fan service in my opinion).
There’s quite a massive power gap to play around with here.
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Post by Skarr on Sept 25, 2021 18:25:06 GMT
Going strictly by statements within the comic, I think SSJ2 Bra is between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ1 Vegetto. She took enough damage from Gohan's Kamehameha that she needed a Senzu bean which I assume a SSJ1 Vegetto could tank.
Salagir said she's now stronger than SSJ1 Vegetto in SSJ2 but that still doesn't explain why he used SSJ3 to attack her. I guess it might be that Asura likes drawing SSJ3 since he had Goku turn SSJ3 to block U18 from Bardock which is pretty unnecessary.
Gast vs Bra will probably give us a better idea where she is in the comic. A lot of author comments are Salagir's thoughts at the time but he discusses ideas with the staff so nothing is really set in stone until it's confirmed in the comic.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Sept 25, 2021 20:29:32 GMT
Going strictly by statements within the comic, I think SSJ2 Bra is between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ1 Vegetto. She took enough damage from Gohan's Kamehameha that she needed a Senzu bean which I assume a SSJ1 Vegetto could tank. Salagir said she's now stronger than SSJ1 Vegetto in SSJ2 but that still doesn't explain why he used SSJ3 to attack her. I guess it might be that Asura likes drawing SSJ3 since he had Goku turn SSJ3 to block U18 from Bardock which is pretty unnecessary. Gast vs Bra will probably give us a better idea where she is in the comic. A lot of author comments are Salagir's thoughts at the time but he discusses ideas with the staff so nothing is really set in stone until it's confirmed in the comic. Exactly, that sums up a lot of my opinion as well about where she stands power wise. I could see SSJ1 Vegetto completely tanking all that the Majin resistance threw at Bra (besides the carbonite of course). Attacks that she actively tried to avoid or when hit did deal enough damage to her that she’d change tactics and go for a senzu bean immediately to recover. Think it goes without saying that her/Babidi would have lost if not for her having access to senzus, she was too careless and high on her power and kept taking hits that I see Vegetto avoiding if he wanted or out right tanking as you said. Not just because he’s that much better of a fighter than her but because the guy could yawn at a character that was possibly twice as strong as an ultimate Gohan, and completely destroy him without trying much in a matter of seconds if he wanted to. That was years ago and just his SSJ1, and he’s obviously gotten stronger sense. Funny you bring up that SSJ3 example with Koldyu, Bardock and U18 Goku. Was going to bring that up myself haha, was beyond overkill and for sure straight up fan service, his SSJ1 should have been more than enough. It does seem like Asura just really likes drawing SSJ3 when he can, could see Salagir just rolling with it because he does such a damn good job at it. I get it but just overcomplicates some things, makes the form look less impressive because it’s used so needlessly and not saved for actually combating stronger enemies that it should be saved for because of its horrible energy drain. Also contradicts or makes a few older statements in the comic not make as much sense. At this point Vegettos SSJ3 has lost most of its shine to me, he jumps straight to it now needlessly just because it looks cool and it just watered it down so much. It now being his go to form all of the sudden and way overkill typically. When before it seemed to be something he never uses or even needs to use unless as a last resort apparently. Not anymore, he skips strait to it at a seconds notice now if just his feelings get hurt. Its the complete opposite of how his SSJ3 was introduced and used early on. Gast shutting it off like he did didn’t win it any points either and made it look even worse. Without even a basic explanation on how but just lolmagicbro get over it (maybe he’s just able to do this to transformations such as SSJ3 and not other forms because of how unstable and hard it is to maintain on the users body?) Anyway Salagir being wishywashy sometimes and taking advice from his team as he should, its understandable after all these years that things would change. It just seems really unnecessary in this case and an obvious change to make Bra look stronger. The language barrier for some may not help either, I know he has some amazing translators at his disposal. (Npberryhill etc) but at times the characters comments or statements come off really awkward in English and obvious that they were translated from another language. So maybe he’s a bit hard headed and doesn’t listen at times to his translators and thinks he knows better? I don’t know that for sure but that’s the sort of vibe I get from the guy lately anyway. Looking at how he answers some peoples questions and ignoring or dismissing it when people do actually bring up solid points about some issues. Though I’m sure with how stupid some of the questions he constantly gets are I don’t completely blame him for having that sort of attitude. |
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Post by Skarr on Sept 25, 2021 22:58:35 GMT
Funny you bring up that SSJ3 example with Koldyu, Bardock and U18 Goku. Was going to bring that up myself haha, was beyond overkill and for sure straight up fan service, his SSJ1 should have been more than enough. It does seem like Asura just really likes drawing SSJ3 when he can, could see Salagir just rolling with it because he does such a damn good job at it. I get it but just overcomplicates some things, makes the form look less impressive because it’s used so needlessly and not saved for actually combating stronger enemies that it should be saved for because of its horrible energy drain. Also contradicts or makes a few older statements in the comic not make as much sense. At this point Vegettos SSJ3 has lost most of its shine to me, he jumps straight to it now needlessly just because it looks cool and it just watered it down so much. In the three times that Vegetto used SSJ3 so far, against Broly was the only time he needed it. I guess they might say that he wanted to overwhelm Ginyu so that he was forced to switch bodies but SSJ2 Vegetto should've been enough to do that. I think they should've kept SSJ3 Vegetto for whenever that vision happens. It could be a red herring and if he does go on a rampage then it would have to be after Zen Buu and Gast lose or killed by XXI. In the vision, Bra says no one can stop Vegetto but we know Gast could and Zen Buu likely could since Vegetto would run out of energy in SSJ3 before killing Buu. I think Salagir gets unfairly treated sometimes. I have the Fan Comic Compilation thread and DBM probably has more readers and random questions asked than most of those stories combined. Even then he goes out of his way to answer questions more than most fan authors I've seen. Usually they don't even give you a way to contact them or ignore most questions. Sometimes people get upset regardless of the type of answer. If he goes into detail to answer a question then you get someone complaining that's it's too much detail. If he isn't sure or never thought about it then they complain he's rude for not coming up with a longer answer on the spot. To be honest, that could be why a lot of fan authors don't answer many questions. |
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Post by drewsaga on Sept 26, 2021 4:24:17 GMT
Some recent comments about the current fight reminded me of a possible Cell/Bra rematch, that is if the stars alined and they both won their respective matches. Not that I think this will ever happen but it would obviously lead to them facing each other in the tournament if so. So with Cell winning his bouts and Bra getting by Gast (aka he doesn’t turn off her SSJ2 like he did to Vegetto, somewhat of an ass pull IMO). They would eventually have their rematch but after what we saw in the Majin rebellion this seems to be pretty redundant with her destroying him immediately without a thought. Main point of this thread being do you think Bra has really shown anything off that would require a SSJ2 Vegetto level character to put her down? What has she done that a buuhan or better fighter couldn’t have? She did after all take decent damage from the other fighters during the Majin revolt and had to rely on random senzus to recover. If she was actually at such a high power level compared to the rest, was that really needed? Basically the word of god/Salagir aside, where would you have put her power wise in the story? Low enough that the others such as Cell could eventually reach her if she’s only twice or so their power as say Buuhan might have been. Or what we’ve seen recently where a possibly serious Vegetto prefers to power up to SSJ3 to put her down quick (that being way over kill and just fan service in my opinion). There’s quite a massive power gap to play around with here. I think Vegetto would actually beat Bra rather easily even at this point. The power gap is large though Bra is almost definitely the 3rd Strongest competitor in physical strength. Bra might have more potential if not equal to Vegettos (similar to Gohan vs Goku or Vegeta) but she isn't gonna be there anytime soon and she doesn't seem to have the discipline to achieve that level neither at the moment.
Though I do wonder if Bra unlocking SSJ3 has been hinted at now with Vegetto's statement to Gast "what happens when she reaches level 3" and Gast says "wait and see". As stupid as the "wait and see sounds" SSJ3 Bra would actually be less of a threat than SSJ2 Bra because she would just burn out nearly instantly (plus Gast can just flip the magic switch to off and turn off Bra's SSJ3 form like he just did to Vegetto.
There is also the chance of whatever new power Vegeta finds that Bra could also unlock it instead as well, which would actually allow her to surpass her dad by a mile while maybe even staying in control. I hope that Goku and Vegeta become Gogeta and beat Vegetto that way but Bra reaching that level of power (a transformation comparable to SSJ3 or even Mystic that doesn't instantly drain her) might be another way Vegetto would lose, though like I said, I rather it be Goku and Vegeta honestly since Gogeta beating Vegetto would be more believable than Bra beating him at this point.
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Post by Skarr on Sept 26, 2021 14:40:33 GMT
I think Vegetto would actually beat Bra rather easily even at this point. The power gap is large though Bra is almost definitely the 3rd Strongest competitor in physical strength. Bra might have more potential if not equal to Vegettos (similar to Gohan vs Goku or Vegeta) but she isn't gonna be there anytime soon and she doesn't seem to have the discipline to achieve that level neither at the moment. Yeah Bra is still far behind Vegetto in the same tier which makes it weird for her SSJ2 to be close to his SSJ1. FPSSJ Gohan at around 10 years old was slightly stronger than Goku with only a few years of training while Bra was trained most of her life but her base is still a few tiers below his. Bra is FPSSJ to Perfect Cell tier in base while Vegetto is around Ultimate Gohan. At this point, I think the only way Bra will surpass Vegetto is when he's past his prime and starts losing power. Vegetto is in his 60s right now so he has a few decades left before he begins to age and lose power. |
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Sept 26, 2021 17:44:39 GMT
Some recent comments about the current fight reminded me of a possible Cell/Bra rematch, that is if the stars alined and they both won their respective matches. Not that I think this will ever happen but it would obviously lead to them facing each other in the tournament if so. So with Cell winning his bouts and Bra getting by Gast (aka he doesn’t turn off her SSJ2 like he did to Vegetto, somewhat of an ass pull IMO). They would eventually have their rematch but after what we saw in the Majin rebellion this seems to be pretty redundant with her destroying him immediately without a thought. Main point of this thread being do you think Bra has really shown anything off that would require a SSJ2 Vegetto level character to put her down? What has she done that a buuhan or better fighter couldn’t have? She did after all take decent damage from the other fighters during the Majin revolt and had to rely on random senzus to recover. If she was actually at such a high power level compared to the rest, was that really needed? Basically the word of god/Salagir aside, where would you have put her power wise in the story? Low enough that the others such as Cell could eventually reach her if she’s only twice or so their power as say Buuhan might have been. Or what we’ve seen recently where a possibly serious Vegetto prefers to power up to SSJ3 to put her down quick (that being way over kill and just fan service in my opinion). There’s quite a massive power gap to play around with here. I think Vegetto would actually beat Bra rather easily even at this point. The power gap is large though Bra is almost definitely the 3rd Strongest competitor in physical strength. Bra might have more potential if not equal to Vegettos (similar to Gohan vs Goku or Vegeta) but she isn't gonna be there anytime soon and she doesn't seem to have the discipline to achieve that level neither at the moment.
Though I do wonder if Bra unlocking SSJ3 has been hinted at now with Vegetto's statement to Gast "what happens when she reaches level 3" and Gast says "wait and see". As stupid as the "wait and see sounds" SSJ3 Bra would actually be less of a threat than SSJ2 Bra because she would just burn out nearly instantly (plus Gast can just flip the magic switch to off and turn off Bra's SSJ3 form like he just did to Vegetto.
There is also the chance of whatever new power Vegeta finds that Bra could also unlock it instead as well, which would actually allow her to surpass her dad by a mile while maybe even staying in control. I hope that Goku and Vegeta become Gogeta and beat Vegetto that way but Bra reaching that level of power (a transformation comparable to SSJ3 or even Mystic that doesn't instantly drain her) might be another way Vegetto would lose, though like I said, I rather it be Goku and Vegeta honestly since Gogeta beating Vegetto would be more believable than Bra beating him at this point.
Agreed that’s where I would place her as well and solid point about her potential. I’m with you on that maybe eventually she could approach Vegettos power but like Scar said this would be after he’s old and way over the hill possibly weakening him quite a bit (but that could be sooner than later, this being a random shot in the dark prediction I just thought about) but Salagir did give Vegetto weaknesses. His questionable mental state aside, hunger being the first one that comes to mind. So if it’s possible that the fusion causes his new body to require way more food or starve to death rather fast. What if he applied this to Vegettos aging too in some way? Meaning he ages faster and might be needing to figure out the Bra problem faster than we or even him thinks before it’s too late. Don’t know if I’d like that idea much at all but throwing it out there. This all could be why he’s so stressed about keeping her in line because when his time comes and he has one foot in the grave, no one would be able to stop one of her rampages if she snaps again. As for her going SSJ3, yea I could see that eventually but I hope it’s not for a long time if so. I mean she just finally gained the ability to use SSJ2 without turning into a berserker so another new form so soon would most likely be more of “omg I’m like Broly or Gohan but worse when I transform and go crazy killing whoever”. It’s already arguable that we’ve gotten too much Bra lately, would just be more of the same from her character that we’ve already seen and just really gagging the audience with a semi OC at that point. Her stealing the show once again. What I’m more worried about is that Salagir will expedite this hidden potential of hers and she’ll make ludicrous power gains fast out of nowhere just to keep up with Vegetto for the stories sake. |
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 27, 2021 5:32:56 GMT
U16 Bra's power is hard to determine for me. I think she is a character that had her power changed as the story goes along. At the start of the story I think Bra wasn't meant to be strong enough to force Vegetto to go SS2. I suspect that Salagir might have had second thoughts and felt he may have low balled Bra a bit too much. Like Skarr mentioned for SS2 Bra to still not be in SS1 Vegetto's ball park seems really low for a fusion character, especially one who has been training all her life. I suspect Salagir wanted to keep Bra one tier below Vegetto. That way Bra at SS2 would at least be as strong or a bit stronger than SS1 Vegetto. It is also hard to determine how strong U16 Bra was meant to be exactly. I believe the novel/fan fiction was what revealed to us that SS1 Bra is still weaker than Mystic Gohan, not the comic. I remember back when Ash still followed the comic that he asked Salagir about SS1 Bra being weaker than Mystic Gohan and he said Salagir was surprised to hear that.
That could mean a few things, the most obvious being the fan fiction writer took liberties to determine SS1 Bra's exact power when Salagir left it more vague. There is a chance that SS1 Bra was originally envisioned to be stronger than Mystic Gohan, but still much weaker than SS1 Vegetto. That would make sense considering Gast might have been imagined to have been SS1 Vegetto's level, so SS2 Bra at least being as strong as that could have meant when they faced each other in the tournament they would be in the same weight class. Gast seems to be another character who's power was kept vague to until Salagir could settle on how strong he wanted him to be.
Bottom line is in trying to hype up the Vegetto and Broly match with having Broly being the first opponent to truly push Vegetto that the writing unintentionally limited to how strong U16 Bra was meant to be. I doubt Salagir wanted to imply Bra was vastly inferior to Vegetto that she cannot hope to match SS1 even with two Super Saiyan levels unlocked. I bet if Salagir could go back and change things he would probably have it so that Broly was the first ever opponent to force Vegetto to have to go SS3 not SS2. That would have left room open to have the idea that Bra is at least one tier below Vegetto when they are in the same form. SS2 Bra being strong enough to overpower SS1 Vegetto like how Salagir now imagines her to be.
I think the whole idea that Bra needed SS2 to surpass Gohan would make more sense when she was a kid to me, but as she grew older and stronger that her power would grow immensely like a fusions would. SS1 Bra could naturally grow stronger than Gohan and her SS2 form would grow stronger than SS1 Vegetto. That would add to Vegetto's concern that Bra could surpass him one day. If Bra at 12 only surpassed Gohan when she went SS2, but than two years later grew stronger than Gohan with SS1 while her SS2 is able match him at SS1 that would be a shocking. That would be an enormous boost in a short amount of time. Suddenly Vegetto's fears that Bra might surpass him would be much stronger.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Sept 27, 2021 18:39:35 GMT
U16 Bra's power is hard to determine for me. I think she is a character that had her power changed as the story goes along. At the start of the story I think it Bra wasn't meant to be strong enough to force Vegetto to go SS2. I suspect that Salagir might have had second thoughts and felt he may have low balled Bra a bit. Like Skarr mentioned SS2 Bra to still be in SS1 Vegetto's ball park seems really low for a fusion character, especially one who has been training all her life. I suspect Salagir wanted to keep Bra one tier below Vegetto. That way Bra at SS2 would at least be as strong or a bit stronger than SS1 Vegetto. It is also hard to determine how strong U16 Bra was meant to be exactly. I believe the novel/fan fiction was what revealed to us that SS1 Bra is still weaker than Mystic Gohan, not the comic. I remember back when Ash still followed the comic that he asked Salagir about SS1 Bra being weaker than Mystic Gohan and he said Salagir was surprised to hear that.
That could mean a few things, the most obvious being the fan fiction writer took liberates to determine SS1 Bra's exact power when Salagir left it more vague. There is a chance that SS1 Bra was originally envisioned to be stronger than Mystic Gohan, but still much weaker than SS1 Vegetto. That would make sense considering Gast might have been imagined to have been SS1 Vegetto's level, so SS2 Bra at least being as strong as that could have meant when they faced each other in the tournament they would be in the same weight class. Gast's power seems to be another character who's power was kept vague to until Salagir could settle on how strong he wanted him to be.
Bottom line is in trying to hype up the Vegetto and Broly match with having Broly being the first opponent to truly push Vegetto that the writing unintentionally limited to how strong U16 Bra was meant to be. I doubt Salagir wanted to imply Bra was vastly inferior to Vegetto that she cannot hope to match SS1 even with two Super Saiyan levels unlocked. I bet if Salagir could go back and change things he would probably have it so that Broly was the first ever opponent to force Vegetto to have to go SS3 not SS2. That would have left room open to have the idea that Bra is at least one tier below Vegetto when they are in the same form. SS2 Bra being strong enough to overpower SS1 Vegetto like Salagir now imagines her to be.
I think the whole idea that Bra needed SS2 to surpass Gohan would make more sense when she was a kid to me, but as she grew older and stronger that her power would grow immensely like a fusions would. SS1 Bra could naturally grow stronger than Gohan and her SS2 form would grow stronger than SS1 Vegetto. That would add to Vegetto's concern that Bra could surpass him one day. If Bra at 12 only surpassed Gohan when she went SS2, but than two years later defeat Gohan with SS1 and her SS2 is able match him at SS1. That would be an enormous boost in a short amount of time. Suddenly Vegetto's fears that Bra might surpass him would be much stronger.
Agree with most of your points for sure, no doubt that Salagir probably changed his mind from back in the day with most characters. Bra and Gast definitely went through some behind the scenes changes, multiple times I’m sure. You may be right about the novel being what brought that up in the first place. I know what the general consensus around here is about the novel and I don’t treat it as canon either because of the clear contradictions it makes. More so like a soft canon imo that works until it contradicts something in the comic, then better to just disregard the contradiction and go with what the comic says. I do feel a bit bad for the people involved with the novel, and the amount of hate they get at times. It’s not as bad as it used to be like around the time it released it’s take on the Rachi vs Gast fight and the questionable power levels it gave some characters (Koldyu being maybe stronger than an SSJ2, Gast and Ghost SSJ3 being compared to an ultimate Gohan and Buutenks etc). That said it’s writing has improved vastly from how it originally read and the translations are pretty damn good now, the English version anyway. No doubt that the writers have been thrown to the wolfs by Salagir over the years a few times when some fans freaked out over differences between the two and he didn’t do much to defend them. Don’t know for sure but I’d imagine they just get a rough outline of what’s going to happen. So if the comic rolls around and contradicts them hard because they were left to interpret whatever Salagir may have told them or he changed his mind as he does often, they get hate for it. Makes it look like they were just pulling things out of their ass at times when I don’t think that’s the case. So for that reason i’v never really taken its power level comparisons seriously and as more of a ball park figure of where they might actually be power wise in the comic, still appreciate the novel for what it is and hope it continues in the future. Back to Bra though, I could see once she was established more and gained more attention in the story. Salagir probably did regret making her as weak as he did at first. Part of that could be that as much hate as she gets around here, she’s actually more popular than some(myself included) realized outside of the main website comments. Can chalk that up to some actually liking her character, being a take on a strong female SSJ for once or because she’s a teenage girl in skimpy cloths. Whatever the case is, she’s got a bigger following than I originally thought she did anyway. (Also still believe Asura really likes drawing her as well so that could be another reason she started being more prominent in the story). Yea that OG Broly and Vegetto fight did make it harder to increase her character without contradicting things that were said at the time with how it was written. You make fair points about her being a sort of fusion and why it could make sense that she would already be approaching Vegettos power and not so far fetched. I’m on the other side of that isle though and actually like her needing SSJ2 currently to even stand a chance against a SSJ1 Vegetto. I always looked at it like yea she came from a fusion but only partially so. Her being more of a hybrid of one if you will, technically still being the product of it being born from an actual fusion parent of course. What I mean is that she’d still get crazy gains and has a ridiculous potential, far above any normal saiyan anyway (her SSJ1 being able to almost hang with ultimate Gohan possibly is no joke after all) and maybe due to also being part human as well. This would be a nice balance between her not being the exact same thing as a normal fusion and not getting an identical or as high of a fusion power bonus as say what Vegetto got. But still be far above most normal mortal beings or non fusions could ever hope to approach because of how she was conceived. (Not saying she couldn’t one day be as strong as him but thinking years not days for those sort of improvements). Sort of an in between boost, a half fusion if you will. I know the other issue if that were the case is how the hell she’d approach SSJ1 Vegetto levels with just SSJ2 if she was only as strong as Gohan in SSJ1. Wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibly that because she’s such a genetic freak that Salagir could take some liberties. Maybe her SSJ transformations give higher boosts? SSJ2 in particular or something tied to her rage and being able to accessing her ridiculous potential easier, being able to make strong gains faster than most. Sort of like a young Gohan but obviously better. As I said I personally don’t mind her being above Buuhan while in SSJ2 and possibly even approaching SSJ1 Vegettos power, that’s still a ridiculous gap. But I can see why having her be much stronger could make sense too. She’s still pretty damn young as well, no need to have her sky rocket to unreachable levels immediately. Makes her character more interesting too imo because more then just like two characters would actually be able to fight with her if she’s a bit weaker. Not her just being able to one shot everyone besides the super heavy hitters. More opportunities for her to grow as a character too if she gets challenged once in awhile, also an easier pill to swallow for some I’m sure because she is still mostly an OC technically. Her being able to immediately one shot most of the established characters we know without really ever having to work for her power can understandably rub some the wrong way. |
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Post by drewsaga on Sept 27, 2021 23:30:42 GMT
Going strictly by statements within the comic, I think SSJ2 Bra is between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ1 Vegetto. She took enough damage from Gohan's Kamehameha that she needed a Senzu bean which I assume a SSJ1 Vegetto could tank. Salagir said she's now stronger than SSJ1 Vegetto in SSJ2 but that still doesn't explain why he used SSJ3 to attack her. I guess it might be that Asura likes drawing SSJ3 since he had Goku turn SSJ3 to block U18 from Bardock which is pretty unnecessary. Gast vs Bra will probably give us a better idea where she is in the comic. A lot of author comments are Salagir's thoughts at the time but he discusses ideas with the staff so nothing is really set in stone until it's confirmed in the comic. Exactly, that sums up a lot of my opinion as well about where she stands power wise. I could see SSJ1 Vegetto completely tanking all that the Majin resistance threw at Bra (besides the Carbonite of course). Attacks that she actively tried to avoid or when hit did deal enough damage to her that she’d change tactics and go for a senzu bean immediately to recover. Think it goes without saying that her/Babidi would have lost if not for her having access to senzus, she was too careless and high on her power and kept taking hits that I see Vegetto avoiding if he wanted or out right tanking as you said. Not just because he’s that much better of a fighter than her but because the guy could yawn at a character that was possibly twice as strong as an ultimate Gohan, and could completely destroy him without trying much in a matter of seconds if he wanted to. That was years ago and just his SSJ1, and he’s obviously gotten stronger sense. Funny you bring up that SSJ3 example with Koldyu, Bardock and U18 Goku. Was going to bring that up myself haha, was beyond overkill and for sure straight up fan service, his SSJ1 should have been more than enough. It does seem like Asura just really likes drawing SSJ3 when he can, could see Salagir just rolling with it because he does such a damn good job at it. I get it but just overcomplicates some things, makes the form look less impressive because it’s used so needlessly and not saved for actually combating stronger enemies that it should be saved for because of its horrible energy drain. Also contradicts or makes a few older statements in the comic not make as much sense. At this point Vegettos SSJ3 has lost most of its shine to me, he jumps straight to it now needlessly just because it looks cool and it just watered it down so much. It now being his go to form all of the sudden and wayy overkill typically. When before it seemed to be something he never uses or even needs to use unless as a last resort apparently. Not anymore, he skips strait to it at a seconds notice now if just his feelings get hurt. Its the complete opposite of how his SSJ3 was introduced and used early on. Gast shutting it off like he did didn’t win it any points either and made it look even worse. Without even a basic explanation on how but just lolmagicbro get over it (maybe he’s just able to do this to transformations such as SSJ3 and not other forms because of how unstable and hard it is to maintain on the users body?) Anyway Salagir being wishywashy sometimes and taking advice from his team as he should, its understandable after all these years that things would change. It just seems really unnecessary in this case and an obvious change to make Bra look stronger. The language barrier for some may not help either, I know he has some amazing translators at his disposal. (Npberryhill etc) but at times the characters comments or statements come off really awkward in English and obvious that they were translated from another language. So maybe he’s a bit hard headed and doesn’t listen at times to his translators and thinks he knows better? I don’t know that for sure but that’s the sort of vibe I get from the guy lately anyway. Looking at how he answers some peoples questions and ignoring or dismissing it when people do actually bring up solid points about some issues. Though I’m sure with how stupid some of the questions he constantly gets are I don’t completely blame him for having that sort of attitude. I am betting that Goku has a hang of SSJ3 to where it doesn't drain him as fast, effectively by minimizing the energy drain it causes (FPSSJ3 or "Mastered" SSJ3). He has had time and motivation to do so while Vegetto and Gotenks wouldn't have the motivation to do so and U13 Vegeta just got SSJ3 and U18 Vegeta doesn't even want SSJ3 but a "better" form (like the one Gohan has, the Mystic power).
But yeah, Vegetto going SSJ3 like he does is stupid since that actually does drain immediately, his SSJ3 is practically useless, especially considering how ridiculously powerful he is at a mere SSJ2.
Edit: It's also why I said if Bra went on a rampage in SSJ3, it would actually be less threatening than SSJ2 because it wouldn't last long at all.
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Post by Son Pan on Sept 29, 2021 0:14:11 GMT
The time limit depends. In DB battles could happen faster than we realize. In the original series SS3 Gotenks was able to have a big battle against Super Buu in just the minutes before SS3 ate away at the fusion time. For someone as powerful and as fast as Vegetto seconds might be enough time to get the job done and then some. It would probably be like Hunter x Hunter time where we get these crazy long drawn out and even up battles all taking place in a few seconds based on how fast they are. For example Gogeta and Vegetto both went SS3 and fought each other in DB time we could get this big and amazing battle in milliseconds before SS3 drained them completely and before the other characters even realized what happened.
That would be cool to me if we saw Vegetto fight someone in SS3 and moved so fast to escape the time limit that he had a epic battle in the few seconds he could stay in the form. Everyone else just thinks it’s one blow, but the audience actually see how much Vegetto and his opponent fit in to those few seconds.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Sept 29, 2021 1:09:53 GMT
The time limit depends. In DB battles could happen faster than we realize. In the original series SS3 Gotenks was able to have a big battle against Super Buu in just the minutes before SS3 ate away at the fusion time. For someone as powerful and as fast as Vegetto seconds might be enough time to get the job done and then some. It would probably be like Hunter x Hunter time where we get these crazy long drawn out and even up battles all taking place in a few seconds based on how fast they are. For example Gogeta and Vegetto both went SS3 and fought each other in DB time we could get this big and amazing battle in milliseconds before SS3 drained them completely and before the other characters even realized what happened. That would be cool to me if we saw Vegetto fight someone in SS3 and moved so fast to escape the time limit that he had a epic battle in the few seconds he could stay in the form. Everyone else just thinks it’s one blow, but the audience actually see how much Vegetto and his opponent fit in to those few seconds. Agreed that’s a cool concept too, actually how i’v always looked at it personally and why I think the “Freeza 5 minutes joke” is just that. Always thought the implication was that they fought so fast that a normal minute could be eons for these people. Adds up with how damn fast they seem to get as the series goes on but as much as I liked Teamfourstar, they made memes out of a lot of those kind of theory’s in the fandom and I think a lot don’t look at it in that way. |
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Post by drewsaga on Oct 17, 2021 23:46:58 GMT
Some recent comments about the current fight reminded me of a possible Cell/Bra rematch, that is if the stars alined and they both won their respective matches. Not that I think this will ever happen but it would obviously lead to them facing each other in the tournament if so. So with Cell winning his bouts and Bra getting by Gast (aka he doesn’t turn off her SSJ2 like he did to Vegetto, somewhat of an ass pull IMO). They would eventually have their rematch but after what we saw in the Majin rebellion this seems to be pretty redundant with her destroying him immediately without a thought. Main point of this thread being do you think Bra has really shown anything off that would require a SSJ2 Vegetto level character to put her down? What has she done that a buuhan or better fighter couldn’t have? She did after all take decent damage from the other fighters during the Majin revolt and had to rely on random senzus to recover. If she was actually at such a high power level compared to the rest, was that really needed? Basically the word of god/Salagir aside, where would you have put her power wise in the story? Low enough that the others such as Cell could eventually reach her if she’s only twice or so their power as say Buuhan might have been. Or what we’ve seen recently where a possibly serious Vegetto prefers to power up to SSJ3 to put her down quick (that being way over kill and just fan service in my opinion). There’s quite a massive power gap to play around with here. I get the shaky feeling that Bra could unlock SSJ3 or even unlock the new form Goku and Vegeta unlocked (assuming SSJ3 isn't a prerequisite, but it probably is since U18 Vegeta also has SSJ3 and used it to ruin Cell). It would be crap if she did but who knows. I kind of hope Vegetto doesn't lose to Bra in a fight when Vegetto snaps though, rather her serve as a distraction for Goku and Vegeta to become Gogeta (much like how in the DBZ Movie 12 Pikkon distracted Jamepa or whatever his name is, or when Frieza distracted Broly in DBS Broly so that Goku and Vegeta became Gogeta).
Funny enough Bra is kind of an underdog in the right bracket. Gast and XXI have OPed magic and Zen Buu is very OPed in both magic and power and could overwhelm her. I'd argue though XXI could also be considered an underdog among the right bracket since Gast and Zen Buu showed way more impressive magic feats as well as physical strength while XXI mostly has only magic power going for him and Bra has only physical strength going for her.
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