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Post by janembafanboy on Jun 5, 2022 5:16:24 GMT
There are some characaters that we all know would do t fine at the tournament, but the question is how well would they do?
The characters I can think of are: Baby vegeta, which I think should be at leats as strong as bra ssj2; super 17, four-star dragon, three star dragon, janemba (both forms)
I think that between all of them janemba would be the weakest and everyone else should be among the same power level, but what do you think about them? which other character do you think would be interesting to rate in dbm?
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Post by عمار on Jun 5, 2022 19:01:04 GMT
I would had really loved to see Super 17 if GT was canon to DBM, given how badly #18 & #17 have been treated in the comic...
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Post by godjacob on Jun 5, 2022 19:09:53 GMT
Naturally I wish this comic had come after the Dragon Ball Renaissance and we could've seen it reworked with GT and Super concepts. So many fun possibilities to imagine.
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Post by Skarr on Jun 7, 2022 11:56:12 GMT
There are some characaters that we all know would do t fine at the tournament, but the question is how well would they do? GT characters like Baby Vegeta and Super 17 might be SSJ1 or SSJ2 Vegetto. It's hard to tell since I remember a guidebook saying SSJ4 was around the strength of SSJ1 Vegetto from the Buu saga but then Goku said a version of Baby was the strongest ki he felt. Maybe he meant the strongest ki of an enemy they faced. Omega Shenron would most likely be above SSJ3 Vegetto. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 8, 2022 2:43:22 GMT
There are some characaters that we all know would do t fine at the tournament, but the question is how well would they do? GT characters like Baby Vegeta and Super 17 might be SSJ1 or SSJ2 Vegetto. It's hard to tell since I remember a guidebook saying SSJ4 was around the strength of SSJ1 Vegetto from the Buu saga but then Goku said a version of Baby was the strongest ki he felt. Maybe he meant the strongest ki of an enemy they faced. Omega Shenron would most likely be above SSJ3 Vegetto.
Technically speaking Goku has never felt Vegito's Ki. He would have memories of it, but he wasn't there.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 8, 2022 2:49:48 GMT
There are some characaters that we all know would do t fine at the tournament, but the question is how well would they do? The characters I can think of are: Baby vegeta, which I think should be at leats as strong as bra ssj2; super 17, four-star dragon, three star dragon, janemba (both forms) I think that between all of them janemba would be the weakest and everyone else should be among the same power level, but what do you think about them? which other character do you think would be interesting to rate in dbm?
Why not expand this further to allow more to be discussed here? What about the characters from the robot planet that Dr Myu created? If GT characters were involved, I'd imagine maybe the split in events for a Universe with Baby Vegeta and Super 17 could have happened with Goku's party having been defeated on Dr Myu's robot planet.
As for Shadow Dragons, of course the split would have to happen later.
As for potential other characters, what about video game exclusive characters?
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Post by drewsaga on Jun 20, 2022 0:35:55 GMT
There are some characaters that we all know would do t fine at the tournament, but the question is how well would they do? GT characters like Baby Vegeta and Super 17 might be SSJ1 or SSJ2 Vegetto. It's hard to tell since I remember a guidebook saying SSJ4 was around the strength of SSJ1 Vegetto from the Buu saga but then Goku said a version of Baby was the strongest ki he felt. Maybe he meant the strongest ki of an enemy they faced. Omega Shenron would most likely be above SSJ3 Vegetto. Pretty sure Base Goku == Kid Buu in DBGT too though so SSJ3 Goku (GT) would likely be stronger than SSJ Vegetto (DBZ) and SSJ4 Goku would be stronger than SSJ2 Vegetto (DBZ) or maybe even close to SSJ3 Vegetto (DBZ).
Omega Shenron is way above SSJ3 Vegetto (DBZ) since Goku could only hurt him at all by using the Dragon Fist (a cool move I wish DBM had given Goku, maybe even give Vegeta Oozaru First to even it out lol). |
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Post by Skarr on Jun 20, 2022 3:04:32 GMT
Pretty sure Base Goku == Kid Buu in DBGT too though so SSJ3 Goku (GT) would likely be stronger than SSJ Vegetto (DBZ) and SSJ4 Goku would be stronger than SSJ2 Vegetto (DBZ) or maybe even close to SSJ3 Vegetto (DBZ). Yeah I was also confused by that since base Goku was so strong. Reminds me of the old GT discussions. I found out the concept of a set multiplier didn't exist back then so Toei wouldn't have any numbers in mind for the SSJ forms. When Goku went SSJ, Rildo said he wasn't using half his power before or something like that which could imply the boost in SSJ wasn't as big as before. It only means SSJ is more than 2x base but they probably wouldn't use the word "half" if he meant a tiny fraction. There was an old fan theory that base could be trained up to hold more of their overall power after unlocking new forms so that the boost of each SSJ is less. It was a way to explain how base Goku could be close to base Vegetto but SSJ4 Goku is only around SSJ1 Vegetto. Who knows what they had in mind but that was the only comparison we had to Vegetto. Another interesting thing in that guidebook was that it said SSJ4 unlocked all their Saiyan potential including Oozaru. It would explain how SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta were about equal even though Goku trained with Uub while Vegeta was mostly a family man and never unlocked SSJ3. |
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Post by godjacob on Jun 20, 2022 3:17:34 GMT
Pretty sure Base Goku == Kid Buu in DBGT too though so SSJ3 Goku (GT) would likely be stronger than SSJ Vegetto (DBZ) and SSJ4 Goku would be stronger than SSJ2 Vegetto (DBZ) or maybe even close to SSJ3 Vegetto (DBZ). Yeah I was also confused by that since base Goku was so strong. Reminds me of the old GT discussions. I found out the concept of a set multiplier didn't exist back then so Toei wouldn't have any numbers in mind for the SSJ forms. When Goku went SSJ, Rildo said he wasn't using half his power before or something like that which could imply the boost in SSJ wasn't as big as before. It only means SSJ is more than 2x base but they probably wouldn't use the word "half" if he meant a tiny fraction. There was an old fan theory that base could be trained up to hold more of their overall power after unlocking new forms so that the boost of each SSJ is less. It was a way to explain how base Goku could be close to base Vegetto but SSJ4 Goku is only around SSJ1 Vegetto. Who knows what they had in mind but that was the only comparison we had to Vegetto. Another interesting thing in that guidebook was that it said SSJ4 unlocked all their Saiyan potential including Oozaru. It would explain how SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta were about equal even though Goku trained with Uub while Vegeta was mostly a family man and never unlocked SSJ3. Could also just as easily be Rildo making a boast. Not like he was Frieza where he kept track of his power down to the percentage. Personally the idea seemed simple: Goku had 5 years to train with Uub, a character with high base potential being Buu's reincarnation, and that is why he got so OP between the Buu Arc and the start of GT. On top of the 5 years he had to train solo since this is Goku after all. It's basically the opposite extreme of Salagir's DBM where training for years doesn't seem to have much effect on one's base power regardless of time passed. |
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Post by Skarr on Jun 20, 2022 3:50:27 GMT
Could also just as easily be Rildo making a boast. Not like he was Frieza where he kept track of his power down to the percentage. Personally the idea seemed simple: Goku had 5 years to train with Uub, a character with high base potential being Buu's reincarnation, and that is why he got so OP between the Buu Arc and the start of GT. On top of the 5 years he had to train solo since this is Goku after all. It's basically the opposite extreme of Salagir's DBM where training for years doesn't seem to have much effect on one's base power regardless of time passed. Well we agreed he simply got stronger in base and not what we were discussing. That part was clear in the story but not how a source had SSJ4 Goku around the strength of SSJ1 Vegetto despite both of them being close in base. Rildo was talking about Goku's power in SSJ not himself. |
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Post by Son Pan on Jun 21, 2022 2:22:27 GMT
It would probably be similar to how Super characters being implemented in DBM. GT has Goku surpassing Majin Buu in even his lesser forms it is not that hard to see SS4 Goku being as strong or stronger than SS1 Vegetto in Z. Characters like Baby Vegeta and Super 17 would probably be around the same level. They could probably easily get through the tournament without much issue.
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Post by mightywukong on Jun 28, 2022 12:38:15 GMT
Honestly, GT going by character statements and feats has completely busted characters.
GT Goku in his base form is on par with a guy who is said to be as strong as Buu by Goku himself.
Meanwhile, Baby Vegeta in his equivelant of Super Saiyan 1 is on par with Goku when he's a Super Saiyan 3!
Of course, Baby Vegeta also has access to both Strongest Form 1 and 2, which are his respective forms for Super Saiyan 2 and 3, which really means that any battle featuring anybody on Baby Vegeta's level or above from GT would just end with everyone getting quickly turned to pulp, including Vegito.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 28, 2022 15:55:34 GMT
Honestly, GT going by character statements and feats has completely busted characters. GT Goku in his base form is on par with a guy who is said to be as strong as Buu by Goku himself. Meanwhile, Baby Vegeta in his equivelant of Super Saiyan 1 is on par with Goku when he's a Super Saiyan 3! Of course, Baby Vegeta also has access to both Strongest Form 1 and 2, which are his respective forms for Super Saiyan 2 and 3, which really means that any battle featuring anybody on Baby Vegeta's level or above from GT would just end with everyone getting quickly turned to pulp, including Vegito.
Pretty sure that Uub in GT isn't as strong as Kid Buu, but just has the potential to reach that level of power due to being the reincarnation of Kid Buu. As for Baby Vegeta, I don't recall that, but I do recall that SSJ4 Goku and SSJ Oozaru Baby Vegeta were pretty close to equals in terms of power, which technically would mean that Baby Vegeta in base would 8x stronger than Goku's base, which actually makes sense if Baby Vegeta's SSJ1 equivalent equaled Goku's SSJ3 since SSJ3 is 8x stronger than SSJ.
Honestly I think if GT characters had been included in DBM that Salagir would've had to put in extra work to clear up the many instances of inconsistencies in the power scaling and the various plot holes and other mistakes that Toei made with GT. It's probably a good thing for him that he decided to not have GT be canon due to not like GT. He saved himself a bunch of extra work that would've been required fixing Toei's errors in GT.
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Post by Skarr on Jun 28, 2022 20:26:36 GMT
Honestly I think if GT characters had been included in DBM that Salagir would've had to put in extra work to clear up the many instances of inconsistencies in the power scaling and the various plot holes and other mistakes that Toei made with GT. It's probably a good thing for him that he decided to not have GT be canon due to not like GT. He saved himself a bunch of extra work that would've been required fixing Toei's errors in GT. I think it just comes down to preference. Some fan comics continued after GT and change some of it like having Goku not leave with Shenron or villains not keeping their bodies in hell. Same with reworking the old movies to fit better in the timeline. No single fan comic can include everything in the franchise so DBM only went with the original manga and some movie ideas. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 28, 2022 23:54:56 GMT
Honestly I think if GT characters had been included in DBM that Salagir would've had to put in extra work to clear up the many instances of inconsistencies in the power scaling and the various plot holes and other mistakes that Toei made with GT. It's probably a good thing for him that he decided to not have GT be canon due to not like GT. He saved himself a bunch of extra work that would've been required fixing Toei's errors in GT. I think it just comes down to preference. Some fan comics continued after GT and change some of it like having Goku not leave with Shenron or villains not keeping their bodies in hell. Same with reworking the old movies to fit better in the timeline. No single fan comic can include everything in the franchise so DBM only went with the original manga and some movie ideas. Of course it comes down to preference and honestly I think it was a good choice that he made it based on how he doesn't like GT. It would've required extra work to fix GT to make it work better. |
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Post by Skarr on Jun 30, 2022 13:37:42 GMT
Of course it comes down to preference and honestly I think it was a good choice that he made it based on how he doesn't like GT. It would've required extra work to fix GT to make it work better. I don't mind since I've been more of a fan of DBZ sequel fan comics. Surprisingly there are more fan comics that ignore GT than use it so either they didn't like it too much or thought it was too difficult to include. DB Legendary is a similar idea and a tournament with GT characters but never finished. |
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Post by Solus on Jun 30, 2022 15:25:23 GMT
I won't jump in on the discussion about powerlevels of GT characters, since I never read nor watched GT. However, one has to consider that if GT was canon to DBM then everyone would have access to the training methods and transformations. So the gap between Goku and Vegetto would have stayed the same, no matter what. It also means that Buu would have encountered and absorbed all of the beings to come after him in U18, which would make him even more op than he already is. Also Cell would have had to face a lot of stronger foes and would be stronger himself. I don't think this would basically change anything of the plot of DBM except for ruling out a lot of the weaker characters like U8 and U9 and so on. I also like the more conservative approach to powerlevels in DBM. The gap between the top dogs and the weaklings is already big enough and I really like Gohan being somewhat relevant (btw. there was that one comic, where some evil spirit overtook Goku's body and came to terrorize earth, yet was stopped by Gohan in his ultimate form, which I found neat, because in DBZ the gap between SSJ3 Goku and ultimate Gohan was already that of a whole transformation).
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 1, 2022 1:06:30 GMT
Of course it comes down to preference and honestly I think it was a good choice that he made it based on how he doesn't like GT. It would've required extra work to fix GT to make it work better. I don't mind since I've been more of a fan of DBZ sequel fan comics. Surprisingly there are more fan comics that ignore GT than use it so either they didn't like it too much or thought it was too difficult to include. DB Legendary is a similar idea and a tournament with GT characters but never finished.
Probably some of both. Some didn't like it and some thought it too hard to include and maybe even some had both reasons in mind for not including GT.
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