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Post by godjacob on Mar 3, 2024 18:00:06 GMT
i like this, it adds depth to Pan's character. It's not that she is weak, she just wasnt born ridiculously OP like everyone else (that said she is the 2nd strongest any character has been at her age) Uh, depth? She dies here, remains dead for quite a while and then when she is revived she never thinks back to this moment again. I don't see how this ass kicking helped her character, and honestly, seems kinda a cruel way to showcase the long wished for SS Pan appearance just to have her die brutally.
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Post by عمار on Mar 3, 2024 19:21:48 GMT
Energy Dome!!!!! From Xenoverse!... I think? xD
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 3, 2024 23:17:17 GMT
i like this, it adds depth to Pan's character. It's not that she is weak, she just wasnt born ridiculously OP like everyone else (that said she is the 2nd strongest any character has been at her age) Uh, depth? She dies here, remains dead for quite a while and then when she is revived she never thinks back to this moment again. I don't see how this ass kicking helped her character, and honestly, seems kinda a cruel way to showcase the long wished for SS Pan appearance just to have her die brutally. I think they mean by showing her frustration on her inability to handle an enemy her father beat at a much younger age and contemplating her being much weaker than Vegetto, Bra, and Gohan it adds a little more to her characterization than the original. It is not a massive character changing moment or even massively adds to her character, but it does add a bit more to than the original did by at least attempting to show us why Pan decided to continue the fight despite being overpowered. At least that is what I think they meant. Edit: The ki dome/barrier addition is neat. I am surprised U16 Pan is at least getting some licks in. This is a long way off, but I hope we see more additions to Bra and Ginyu’s match that warrants them both tiring our feel more organic instead of what we currently have.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 3, 2024 23:51:04 GMT
Uh, depth? She dies here, remains dead for quite a while and then when she is revived she never thinks back to this moment again. I don't see how this ass kicking helped her character, and honestly, seems kinda a cruel way to showcase the long wished for SS Pan appearance just to have her die brutally. I think they mean by showing her frustration on her inability to handle an enemy her father beat at a much younger age and contemplating her being much weaker than Vegetto, Bra, and Gohan it adds a little more to her characterization than the original. It is not a massive character changing moment or even massively adds to her character, but it does add a bit more to than the original did by at least attempting to show us why Pan decided to continue the fight despite being overpowered. At least that is what I think they meant. Edit: The ki dome/barrier addition is neat. I am surprised U16 Pan is at least getting some licks in. This is a long way off, but I hope we see more additions to Bra and Ginyu’s match that warrants them both tiring our feel more organic instead of what we currently have. If this is supposed to be a character arc even a subtle one then it is nearly impossible to pick up. This fight is just to show the states of the fights by showing death can happen even to the good guys, but it doesn't really add anything to Pan. She isn't overly cocky or arrogant that thinks she should be able to beat Bojack. Heck, she is even cautioned by Gohan prior to the fight and she agrees with him. Just saying I don't see it as a net positive for Pan, it doesn't do anything for her.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 4, 2024 2:45:57 GMT
I think they mean by showing her frustration on her inability to handle an enemy her father beat at a much younger age and contemplating her being much weaker than Vegetto, Bra, and Gohan it adds a little more to her characterization than the original. It is not a massive character changing moment or even massively adds to her character, but it does add a bit more to than the original did by at least attempting to show us why Pan decided to continue the fight despite being overpowered. At least that is what I think they meant. Edit: The ki dome/barrier addition is neat. I am surprised U16 Pan is at least getting some licks in. This is a long way off, but I hope we see more additions to Bra and Ginyu’s match that warrants them both tiring our feel more organic instead of what we currently have. If this is supposed to be a character arc even a subtle one then it is nearly impossible to pick up. This fight is just to show the states of the fights by showing death can happen even to the good guys, but it doesn't really add anything to Pan. She isn't overly cocky or arrogant that thinks she should be able to beat Bojack. Heck, she is even cautioned by Gohan prior to the fight and she agrees with him. Just saying I don't see it as a net positive for Pan, it doesn't do anything for her. I don’t think it is meant to be a character arc or even a positive to the character. Sometimes characterization it is not meant to be a positive or add to a larger character arc, but flesh or t the character a bit more. A good example of this is Attack on Titan. It showed bit characters being getting a little depth or added a little to them by humanizing them by showing them sometimes not in positive ways, but it served a purpose to make the characters feel human. It can serve to make the characters or world feel more real. U16 Pan is a minor character so I can see why they might want to show why they added this if the job is to show why is U16 Pan continuing when she clearly feels his ki and knows she can’t beat him. Some fans might feel it is stupid and feel unsympathetic to her death because of it. Adding a human flaw of wanting to prove herself or frustration at her own weakness might endear some fans to her. Of course this could have the opposite intention as well. It really depends on the audience.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 4, 2024 7:28:52 GMT
If this is supposed to be a character arc even a subtle one then it is nearly impossible to pick up. This fight is just to show the states of the fights by showing death can happen even to the good guys, but it doesn't really add anything to Pan. She isn't overly cocky or arrogant that thinks she should be able to beat Bojack. Heck, she is even cautioned by Gohan prior to the fight and she agrees with him. Just saying I don't see it as a net positive for Pan, it doesn't do anything for her. I don’t think it is meant to be a character arc or even a positive to the character. Sometimes characterization it is not meant to be a positive or add to a larger character arc, but flesh or t the character a bit more. A good example of this is Attack on Titan. It showed bit characters being getting a little depth or added a little to them by humanizing them by showing them sometimes not in positive ways, but it served a purpose to make the characters feel human. It can serve to make the characters or world feel more real. U16 Pan is a minor character so I can see why they might want to show why they added this if the job is to show why is U16 Pan continuing when she clearly feels his ki and knows she can’t beat him. Some fans might feel it is stupid and feel unsympathetic to her death because of it. Adding a human flaw of wanting to prove herself or frustration at her own weakness might endear some fans to her. Of course this could have the opposite intention as well. It really depends on the audience. I just don't see this scene as doing any characterization for Pan, and given the end goal of this fight is to try and make the audience feel tragic sympathy when Bojack snaps her neck, feels a bit odd a goal is to highlight some "flaw" to her leading to it. IDK just feel it does nothing and doesn't even reflect the character much at all. Besides, feels a bit rich to say that the dumb pride is a flaw that punishers her with her literal BFF and teammate being Son fucking Bra who if anything is the one in need of that display lol. If anything it just is a tragic death to show the darker tone Multiverse takes (and honestly a waste of U16 Pan's and Pan's first ever SS showing, but then again i feel she is wasted as a character in general).
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Post by thebritwriter on Mar 4, 2024 17:42:27 GMT
I never get the chance to reply On latest oage, by time I do it’s a new one!
On a whole I think this is fine, now I know about the extended pan fight, but not by the pages it was increased.
Personally I don’t think this makes her death hit all the harder because the fight has dragged with each same outcome where what pan is doing has no effect which is has gone on for too long.
Personally I recall making a suggestion that an additional page should be added where pan freaks out and wants to yell forefit but is choked from saying it.
More to it the longer fight makes her outstay her welcome , keep in mind this character does next to nothing after this so gogeta jr was right to keep it brief. This will just make her obscurity all the more notable.
The pacing I think personally should had been kept shorter.
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Post by عمار on Mar 4, 2024 18:33:50 GMT
Beam clash incoming!!!
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 4, 2024 19:44:47 GMT
I don’t think it is meant to be a character arc or even a positive to the character. Sometimes characterization it is not meant to be a positive or add to a larger character arc, but flesh or t the character a bit more. A good example of this is Attack on Titan. It showed bit characters being getting a little depth or added a little to them by humanizing them by showing them sometimes not in positive ways, but it served a purpose to make the characters feel human. It can serve to make the characters or world feel more real. U16 Pan is a minor character so I can see why they might want to show why they added this if the job is to show why is U16 Pan continuing when she clearly feels his ki and knows she can’t beat him. Some fans might feel it is stupid and feel unsympathetic to her death because of it. Adding a human flaw of wanting to prove herself or frustration at her own weakness might endear some fans to her. Of course this could have the opposite intention as well. It really depends on the audience. I just don't see this scene as doing any characterization for Pan, and given the end goal of this fight is to try and make the audience feel tragic sympathy when Bojack snaps her neck, feels a bit odd a goal is to highlight some "flaw" to her leading to it. IDK just feel it does nothing and doesn't even reflect the character much at all. Besides, feels a bit rich to say that the dumb pride is a flaw that punishers her with her literal BFF and teammate being Son fucking Bra who if anything is the one in need of that display lol. If anything it just is a tragic death to show the darker tone Multiverse takes (and honestly a waste of U16 Pan's and Pan's first ever SS showing, but then again i feel she is wasted as a character in general). That is fair. I was more explaining what I think the person meant.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 5, 2024 2:23:51 GMT
Honestly if you were going to extend the fight, I wish Pan did more damage to Bojack. Least have her go out doing something since the story shoves her aside after Bojack sends her to the grave even with the revival.
It's kinda infuriating that this is the best U16 Pan can do when you consider the circumstances she lives in. She is BFFs with a freak in Son Bra, she gets a chance to hang out and train with Vegito, and yet despite all that she is fodder compared to her dad at this age. Heck Gohan keeps his buff from the Buu Saga in the DBM canon so she is technically born to an Ultimate Gohan.
Compare to say End of Z Pan, hinted to have potential greater than Gohan at the same age and was able to beat Goten in the tournament and this feels like underachieving to hell in back. If you are not gonna actually do anything with the character, could least make her look cool cause otherwise her first SS showcase is just a sad woobie death going out in unimpressive fashion.
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Post by thebritwriter on Mar 9, 2024 21:01:18 GMT
ENOUGH!!
Though seriously, this has gone on for far too many pages to where I think it defeats the point of the original. I'm a little surprised this was extended by this long, what was the reasoning behind this extension?
A issue I want to mention is by extending this fight may mean you have to extend other fights to maintain their importance as this has been extended quite a bit.
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Post by godjacob on Mar 10, 2024 6:24:58 GMT
TBF can see the logic in extending the fight given this is U16 Pan's only showcase and given how little she gets after this giving her more stuff to do in this fight isn't a bad idea...just the fact her extended offense doesn't do anymore damage to Bojack is my issue.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 10, 2024 18:51:05 GMT
I’m honestly up for extended or some modified fights for some matches to be honest. Some of these matches feel way too short or inorganic in their original form. U16 Bra vs Ginyu/Cold for example. Every time I reread that fight it stands out how they both get tired so quickly after blasting and reflecting basic ki attacks at each other and go down way too quickly. The same is also true of Goku and Uub match, since while SS3 and Kaioken both consume stamina quickly it is never to the extent that DBM did it for their fight, which makes the fight ending feel way too abrupt for me. I am even cool if we add to Raichi and Gast fight.
Personally, I think so prefer this fight to the original, because I like we get to see what U16 Pan can do. I understand the point that her death being quick and abrupt made it more shocking, but I do think the slower gradual build up works fine. Pan is trying everything she can to try to win, but we see each tactic fail and a sense of dread starts building as Pan’s inevitable death.
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Post by عمار on Mar 10, 2024 18:58:31 GMT
Hellzone Grenade!
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Post by عمار on Mar 11, 2024 18:26:13 GMT
Page 10!
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Post by عمار on Mar 13, 2024 19:30:58 GMT
You know what's about to come... :')
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Post by Azoth on Mar 13, 2024 20:32:35 GMT
At least she put up a fight this time.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 13, 2024 22:14:51 GMT
At least she put up a fight this time. I agree. I know this can be disheartening for her fans or might seem like a waste of time for others since we know the outcome, but I really enjoyed this fight more because we got to see Pan put up a fight and got to display her abilities.
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