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Post by عمار on Apr 21, 2024 19:14:05 GMT
The mirai universe. Hopefully this will be more than "how the Android won".
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Post by عمار on Apr 24, 2024 20:19:09 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga?
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Post by maximusthered2431 on Apr 24, 2024 22:12:30 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga? My head canon was always that their inability to complete their programming messed them up. Learning Goku died and they'd never be able to kill him...made them uhhh not well. Where as the present Androids were way more chill because they still has the possibility of hunting Goku to keep them sane. No proof but that was always my theory. No Goku somehow made a difference in them.
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Post by jbame on Apr 24, 2024 22:46:29 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga? Brainwashed teen delinquents got way too overpowered, then presumably got bored and decided to genocide for the lulz. I really don't think it gets deeper than that. In the Present Timeline 16's kinder nature kept their killing intents in check and then Cell showed up before they could do anything evil.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Apr 24, 2024 23:30:52 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga? I always assumed it wasn’t anything that deep. Maybe because #17 and #18 were released under different circumstances, Gero could have had more time to work on their programming in Trunks timeline. Seeing as he wasn’t forced to activate them like in the present. This making them more blood thirsty and more about their programming in the process. Where he was forced to activate them in the present timeline because the Z fighters were chasing him. He may have even worked on them more before activating them had the Z fighters not followed him to his lab.
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Post by flynt on Apr 25, 2024 1:08:45 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga? My head canon is that after future Dr. Gero realize that future Goku died of the heart virus, he made the decision to reprogram the androids to hate humanity to make conquering the world easier. Which is why the future androids loathe humanity so much, while the present timeline, where Goku is still alive, they never underwent that reprograming and were able to just be chill and do their own thing after the whole cell arc.
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 26, 2024 3:13:06 GMT
Say... do we know why the Future Androids are evil? Was it explain in the manga? To my understanding, the present cyborgs not being evil like their future counterparts, was just another changed attributed to the butterfly effect brought on by Cell and Trunks' meddling in the past. It is similar to how Goku got sicker much later in the main timeline than in the bad future timeline was a change brought on by Trunks' actions. Future Trunks just speculated all the changed between the main timeline and his own had to be due to his changing the past and later Cell's changes in the past. That was likely Toriyama using the butterfly effect to cover for why the main timeline had key differences between the bad future timeline. It is smart because the butterfly effect concept means even a small change like stepping on a bug can have a huge impact on the future without needing a super detailed map of how specific events lead to something else. DBM tends to downplay the butterfly effect that Toriyama favored by giving us details on why events happened beyond Trunks and Cell time travel did it. If I had to guess why the future cyborgs turned out so different, then I think it is safe to say that 17 and 18 being activated later is the diverging factor. 17 and 18 in the present just decided to hunt for Goku out of boredom. I imagine they had the same motivation in the future, but in they were just the ones who attacked that city, which makes me think that was always Gero's plan, to lure Goku to them. While they waited for Goku to show up as they started killing humans, they found pleasure in it and became sadists. Since nobody was strong enough to stop them, their egos grew, and they started thinking all humans were their playthings. Whereas the present cyborgs never developed that love, because they never attacked the city because 16 was there and knew where Goku lived. They went straight for him. Cell proved to be their superior, which shattered their egos and forced them to acknowledge their mortality. Instead of becoming inhuman monsters divorced from their humanity they embraced it again and eventually found joy in living as humans again. I realize I put way more thought into this than what Toriyama intended lol. For manga, butterfly effect was the answer.
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Post by عمار on Apr 26, 2024 18:06:31 GMT
Son Pan flynt Super-dee-Duper Veku jbame maximusthered2431 So, basically it was never stated why in the manga. xD It was nice reading all your headcanons though. But Son Pan , I do agree that not everything has to be explained, but this an important change that should have been explained. Future Trunks was going on and on about how trouble & evil the Androids are. But ironically his father has killed more people than them (Which is one person in the manga compare to zero kills for them. xD).
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Post by flynt on Apr 26, 2024 18:07:35 GMT
If only Future Vegeta had stayed down and lived another day, he would have taught Future Gohan all he knew about fighting and might have been able to take down the androids.
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Post by عمار on Apr 26, 2024 18:11:37 GMT
If only Future Vegeta had stayed down and lived another day, he would have taught Future Gohan all he knew about fighting and might have been able to take down the androids. His ego is way too big for him to retreat. Funny thing, that is something Saiyan Saga & Freeza Saga Vegeta will do.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Apr 26, 2024 23:11:29 GMT
If only Future Vegeta had stayed down and lived another day, he would have taught Future Gohan all he knew about fighting and might have been able to take down the androids. “Don’t feel pain” I think #17 that got painfully demolished by first form Cell would like to have a word with you about that head cannon statement Vegeta. I agree, Vegeta surviving could have really turned the tides later if he trained with Gohan. Being a freshly turned SSJ though really seemed to hype his ego up to another level, so not surprised he didn’t run.
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Post by jbame on Apr 26, 2024 23:17:08 GMT
If only Future Vegeta had stayed down and lived another day, he would have taught Future Gohan all he knew about fighting and might have been able to take down the androids. “Don’t feel pain” I think #17 that got demolished by first form Cell would like to have a word with you about that head cannon statement Vegeta. I agree, Vegeta surviving could have really turned the tides later if he trained with Gohan. Being a freshly turned SSJ though really seemed to hype his ego up to another level, so not surprised he didn’t run. He is probably so high on copium that he believes his attacks ARE dealing damage and the Androids just can't feel it. Either that or he is being a proud idiot throwing his life away.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Apr 27, 2024 1:26:42 GMT
“Don’t feel pain” I think #17 that got demolished by first form Cell would like to have a word with you about that head cannon statement Vegeta. I agree, Vegeta surviving could have really turned the tides later if he trained with Gohan. Being a freshly turned SSJ though really seemed to hype his ego up to another level, so not surprised he didn’t run. He is probably so high on copium that he believes his attacks ARE dealing damage and the Androids just can't feel it. Either that or he is being a proud idiot throwing his life away. For sure, I think that it’s unbelievable to Vegeta at this point that anyone could match the power of a “legendary” SSJ. He had been hearing about it and obsessed with the legend his whole life. He needed the reality check that his race’s legendary transformation wasn’t indestructible after all. This was an important turning point for Vegetas character to reflect on things imo. It’s just that he gets murdered before he gets a chance to do anything about it in the future. If he had been humbled or lost as a SSJ before fighting the cyborgs, he might have been more tactical about things and less reckless/ego driven but who knows.
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Post by flynt on Apr 28, 2024 18:06:23 GMT
Vegeta, you proud fool...you doomed the timelines...
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 28, 2024 19:21:25 GMT
Son Pan flynt Super-dee-Duper Veku jbame maximusthered2431 So, basically it was never stated why in the manga. xD It was nice reading all your headcanons though. But Son Pan , I do agree that not everything has to be explained, but this an important change that should have been explained. Future Trunks was going on and on about how trouble & evil the Androids are. But ironically his father has killed more people than them (Which is one person in the manga compare to zero kills for them. xD). I don’t disagree with you on it being important, but Toriyama wasn’t a super detailed or forward planned writer usually. He admitted as much when he was still with us. For this arc he said he changed his mind on the villains based on his old editor thoughts on them being meh. Since he changed his mind a few times and made things drastically different from what Trunks said he used the time travel theory the butterfly effect as a catch all for all these changes, so he didn’t need a real explanation. It is smart for his writing style but not necessarily as satisfying for readers.
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 28, 2024 19:37:34 GMT
Vegeta, you proud fool...you doomed the timelines... Let’s be honest even if Vegeta had lived he would have trained on his own to try again than to try train Gohan. In the main timeline he and Trunks didn’t even train together in the time chamber. Vegeta needed more character development before he trained Gohan or trained with anyone, which means his gains wouldn’t be as significant as a result. There is a good chance he surpasses the level the cyborgs were on in this timeline and get killed later when 17 and 18 reveal they didn’t even use half their power to humiliate him last time. Their power isn’t going to degrade like crazy yet because of lack of maintenance, until a decade from now. I wasn’t a big fan of the fan fiction version having Vegeta train Gohan in the time chamber. I feel like fans saw plot holes where there wasn’t any. People saying why didn’t the future gang use the time chamber? It obvious that most of the gang died in the first encounter, Trunks even said as much. Gohan isn’t going to know about it since Goku, Piccolo, and Kami died. We know the senzu beans died out so we know the cyborgs eventually find Korin’s Tower and kill him if the senzu root died out, so it isn’t crazy to think Popo was killed and Kami’s Palace destroyed. Gohan was left to his own devices so he never realized his potential. This timeline isn’t as far fetched as people making it out to be. Vegeta training Gohan in the time chamber is a bigger stretch for me to swallow.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Apr 30, 2024 2:35:37 GMT
Vegeta, you proud fool...you doomed the timelines... Calling it now, Vegeta is going to be murdered before he can release this blast.
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Post by godjacob on Apr 30, 2024 17:51:41 GMT
I always believed that 16 being around helped to act as a moral mitigator for present 17 & 18. Keeping them focused on the task and not to go overboard elsewhere, I also think that maybe the future 17 & 18 had their programming "finished" as Gero did rush them out in the present timeline due to desperation.
It's fun to think about, even if Toriyama was more making this up as he went along.
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Post by flynt on May 1, 2024 18:45:45 GMT
And thus, future Vegeta is no more. And god damn the androids are sociopathic. Feel bad about Gohan who's hiding and being forced to watch his friends die one by one unable to do anything about it.
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Post by عمار on May 1, 2024 20:14:02 GMT
And thus, future Vegeta is no more. And god damn the androids are sociopathic. Feel bad about Gohan who's hiding and being forced to watch his friends die one by one unable to do anything about it. Meh. Vegeta was as brutal as these two if not more. It something I noticed a lot of people seems to forgot.
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