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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 1:42:28 GMT
Made me smile all the way through, even the cheesy fanservicey bits. 5/7
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 25, 2018 2:09:56 GMT
BEST. FUCKING. EPISODE. EVER!!!!!
Too many things happened to say all at once, but goddamn I now know where most of the budget went to. I literally got the chills twice when Frieza was trying to take Jiren out and when universe 11 got erased. Bravo. But I have to admit it amazing how I went from complaining about Jiren to absolutely loving him in a span of two episodes. He is easily among my new favorites in Super's original cast.
And I was right about the wish being granted, but my boi 17 said it instead of Goku. Glad both Zeno's and the Grand Priest were okay with it since they expected it. It makes all three just that much less threatening and actually having genuine goodness in their hearts.
Champa is a prick and Android 18 is a dumb broad for deliberately going out her way to make a point 17's original wish is for the best lol. Lost mad respect for her. But man Future Trunks would have a heart attack if he saw 17 making that wish. Again it is amazing how different two versions of the same character can be.
When the hell could Whis resurrect the dead? My god so Goku now has Frieza, Hit, and Jiren to worry about in the future. Sounds incredibly promising.
And Super is coming back. If the continuation can be just as good as this episode and 130, I am 100% in it. Everything I have said before about Super will be voided if I get good action and character development I had seen today.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 2:30:11 GMT
The Bad:
- How in the hell is Goku standing up again? Didn't his back just explode? Man, he's really tapping into that Power of Friendship well. Jiren got his second wind here, but Goku's on like his 5th wind, able to get back up after his back came down with a terrible case of explosions and be the tipping point when previously a worn out Frieza and a never-gets-tired #17 were unable to hold their own against Jiren. I mean hot damn.
- Vegeta, WTF are you talking about? With Goku unable to tap into UI currently you've ALREADY SURPASSED HIM with your SSB evolution! The best Goku can muster against your princely wrath is Kaioken, and he'll wear himself out before you get worn out using that! YOU'VE ALREADY WON VEGETA. YOU REIGN SUPREME. YOU ARE ONCE AGAIN THE PRINCE OF ALL SAIYANS.
The Good:
- Frieza not bothering with the fight and just dive bombing Jiren out of the ring, with the assist from Goku, was IMO very well done. One on one Jiren was still the king at the end of the day so they literally just took him off the playing field to win. Something that U6 could've done ages ago but I digress.
- Thankfully the final fight was the exact opposite of the fight where MUI Goku and Jiren were just vibrating a bit but were implied to just be throwing punches too fast for the eye to see. No, this was ACTUAL fighting happening, which is a good thing. Visually it's just so much more appealing than the former example, no? Frieza hanging on for dear life while Jiren is thrashing his arm around was hilarious.
- Finally we can get rid of that Grand Priest is evil theory. Not only did he have zero objections to #17 restoring the universes, but he and the Zen-Ohs actually INTENDED it to go that way in the first place. So if the final wish had actually been selfish, they would've erased everything because clearly the mortals are too greedy for their own good and there's nothing worth saving. So if anything that sinister smile was more of a challenge to Goku. "What, you don't like the whole erasing thing? Well win and undo it bruh." Though given that Bergamo also got the Zen-Ohs to immediately agree to not erase anything really shows that erasing for the sake of erasing was never on the table unless the universes as a whole were just selfishly evil.
- Jiren taking the first steps to actually having friends with someone and vowing to win next time. Which means in the NEXT tournament he's just gonna knock Goku out of the ring immediately, right? Not wait for him to get UI again?
- Animation was great. Probably could've been a bit better if less budget had been spent on obnoxiously animating Ribrianne, but great nonetheless.
The Expected:
- Universes getting revived. Called this like a year ago when the whole ToP arc took off. Forget who I was arguing with about that. DB is a big reset button, stuff's gonna get reset.
- Toppo cheering on Jiren and saying how U11 has pride in him, even though he only has contempt for them.
The WTF:
- What are #17's clothes made out of. Seriously. His second attack actually brought Jiren to his knees and didn't even damage his clothes.
- Thank God #18 wasn't the one who made the wish. If she had been the final fighter in she would've doomed everyone with her greed, holy shit. I can't believe she gave #17 flack for restoring all the erased universes. WTF. Did she really turn good? Or is she just playing it smart since she's now outclassed by the likes of Vegeta and Goku to ensure her own existence?
- Whis can revive people? Damn he must really hate King Kai then seeing as he never resurrected him.
The DBM:
- Bra isn't even a day old and already flying around. Brace yourselves, Son Bra is coming.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 2:39:17 GMT
Okay, concerning 18, I really didn't think it was that big a deal (which is why I said nothing about it, usually I would have). It didn't look like she was reprimanding him for it, it just looked like she was making sure he wasn't disappointed in his wish when she knew he REALLY wanted something else more. His wish isn't exactly complicated though. He wants a cruiser lol.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 2:44:42 GMT
His wish isn't exactly complicated though. He wants a cruiser lol. True, which is why I'm glad he didn't waste the Super Dragon Balls wish on it. Just don't get the nitpicking with this one though. Usually I'd be on board with not sucking the episode's d1ck like it's candy but it literally just feels like nitpicking something that's not there to nitpick to me, I don't know.
Edit: Is d1ck really still censored? Conqueror Geng ? Ashanark ?I don't think it's a bad thing, just something worth pointing out. I mean, there's a reason I didn't list it as "bad" and that's because it's actually consistent with #18's greedy character. I'm just surprised the moment even happened at all.
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Post by Andres on Mar 25, 2018 2:53:32 GMT
Let's chant together:
MVP! MVP! MVP! Man, what an episode. Probably my favourite of the whole series. I played it again immediately after it finished the first time.
It does suffer from some of Super's infinite stamina issue: Frieza was completely banged up, yet he can somewhat keep up with banged up Jiren in freaking Golden form. He shouldn't. But am I to complain? For once, Frieza had balls. And I mean serious balls. He hang in there tougher than A17's clothing (are those made of Kachi Kachi Kachi Katchin? the truuuuuest hardest metal in the universe?)
In the meanwhile, Jiren had a whole extra reservoir of energy. The guy was a complete beast. Even exhausted as he was, he could've won the whole thing. Only thing that kept him from doing it was 17's (true) infinite supply of stamina. Goku standing up and fight? I call bullshit. But who cares. It was intense. Intense enough he couldn't even activate Super Saiyan 1. It was gorgeously animated and looked as there were actual STAKES for once.
One lovely touch: Daishinkan and the Zeno's were both "proud" the winner actually brought them back. The Grand Priest wasn't evil after all and the Zenos weren't stupid kids after all.
And watching Gowasu smiling made my day.
Oh, and don't worry, Vegeta. If Kakarot can't use Ultra Instinct at will, then you're stronger than him, asuming you can access your Evolved Blue form at will. How's that?
O-M-G that Saiyan Saga callback. Lovely. Lovely lovely.
And 17 got a cruiser. Fuck yeah he totally earned that one.
I'm fanboying hard right now. As nonsensical and ilogical it was at times, Super actually ended on a high note. A very high note. It was a great finale. I'm glad they didn't fuck it up. They exceeded my expectations by a whole lot. Not only they didn't fuck it up, they actually made it good.
Man. I'm gonna miss DBS.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2018 2:53:42 GMT
Actually this is the best ending possible. The things I liked the most were already mentioned, but I'll just repeat them.
-That this Tournament of Power, more than being so, was a tournament of good will. It was a way to test the mortal's selflessness in a way, which makes Zeno-Sama and the GP look a lot less creepier. This means that if Jiren had won, they'd all be erased anyway.
-I also liked Toppo's cheering of Jiren, and the conversation they had in the end. I wish Jiren recognized Toppo's efforts, and that Toppo explicitly admitted being wrong about judging Goku, alas, this didn't happen.
-I also liked how intense and desperate the battle seemed. Goku going off and on SSJ1 intermitently made it look like he really was struggling to keep it. To see it do it together with Freeza was awesome.
-That Angels can revive people randomly
-And of course! How Freeza psychologized Jiren. Damn, Freeza got some insane burns, he was not like this in Namek saga.
-Likewise, A17 telling Goku and Freeza "are you done kissing?" was also a sick burn.
Overall this was a light but very satisfactory ending. I am glad we didn't get a explicit cliffhanger but something quite open. Sorta like the light-hearted end of z. I liked GT ending that was sorrowful and grave, but in the context of DBSuper that would have been really crap, resembling how Zamasu arc ended.
I am glad they managed to wrap it up this way. This will certainly sway things a lot in DBS favor in future comparisons to DBGT and possibly even DBM.
Either way, despite the ending was not perfect or excessively drastic, it made me felt comfortable enough, more so than other ending I could have imagined, and gave good closure to most important parts. I wish they had spend time in more details though. A 30 minutes chapter would have sufficed.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 2:57:43 GMT
I don't think it's a bad thing, just something worth pointing out. I mean, there's a reason I didn't list it as "bad" and that's because it's actually consistent with #18's greedy character. I'm just surprised the moment even happened at all. That's another thing actually. I mentioned it before but I don't get why they decided to make that a flaw of hers. Not gonna get into it again but that really pissed me off. That they did that, not... whatever...
Anyway yeah, I gotcha. I'm shocked it did too, just saw a lot of people mentioning it as though they HAD to say something to shit on it. Not even you necessarily, obviously the episode wasn't perfect and had some questionable shit happen, just don't feel 18 asking that was one of them.All the waifus have one distinguishing characteristic sadly, beyond loving their husbandos. - Chi-Chi is education. - Bulma is SCIENCE! - Videl is...being a nice waifu. - #18 is GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED. Much like how Goku has been flanderized in DBS, they took #18 getting greedy in the Buu Saga and ran off with it. This led to that one moment. You know the one. Where she was upset that King Kai was going to be resurrected by Goku because she didn't know her own husband enough to get a gift he would like and wanted the magical dragon to do it for her.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 3:01:40 GMT
Actually this is the best ending possible. The things I liked the most were already mentioned, but I'll just repeat them. -That this Tournament of Power, more than being so, was a tournament of good will. It was a way to test the mortal's selflessness in a way, which makes Zeno-Sama and the GP look a lot less creepier. This means that if Jiren had won, they'd all be erased anyway. ...What WAS his wish going to be for anyway? Was this ever established? Revenge on the guy who murdered everyone he held dear? Reviving the guy who murdered everyone he held dear so he could personally thrash him? Immortality? Ascending to a higher level of existence? The world's most comfortable pair of underwear?
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 3:22:35 GMT
Oh boy, color me fucking surprised, they actually managed to shove that all into less than 20 minutes and still made it out to be good!Granted, I wish this episode had been an hour long special and we got more time with wrapping things up. I am glad that none of the suspected fighters got the win, and that it was actually 17 that got the last man standing honor, very unexpected, very pleasant. Because I was almost sure it was going to be either Goku or Frieza who'd be the last man standing, and man am I glad it wasn't Frieza, cause he would've definitely had a selfish wish. Also anyone noticed that Frieza, when he dropped in with the rest of the dropouts, was actually missing part of his tail, similarly to the Namek Saga? Kinda odd that really. All in all though, this was probably the best way to end Super, and they are clearly hinting that the series will continue after the movie considering all the comments from the narrator. Also, with Frieza being alive again, this means they can finally lead into Kuriza being canon, Neko Majin Z next, make it happen Toei! Also, favorite new Jiren emotion: The shit eating smirk
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2018 3:26:49 GMT
Actually this is the best ending possible. The things I liked the most were already mentioned, but I'll just repeat them. -That this Tournament of Power, more than being so, was a tournament of good will. It was a way to test the mortal's selflessness in a way, which makes Zeno-Sama and the GP look a lot less creepier. This means that if Jiren had won, they'd all be erased anyway. ...What WAS his wish going to be for anyway? Was this ever established? Revenge on the guy who murdered everyone he held dear? Reviving the guy who murdered everyone he held dear so he could personally thrash him? Immortality? Ascending to a higher level of existence? The world's most comfortable pair of underwear? It was never revealed. However the manga implies it was something selfish, given he initially did not even want to participate in the tournament (until Belmod bribed him with the wish). Yes, I am aware the manga is a different continuity, but given that we did never get an equivalent in the anime (and likely never will now) that's all we can use as a reference.
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 3:47:43 GMT
Oh boy, color me fucking surprised, they actually managed to shove that all into less than 20 minutes and still made it out to be good!Granted, I wish this episode had been an hour long special and we got more time with wrapping things up. I am glad that none of the suspected fighters got the win, and that it was actually 17 that got the last man standing honor, very unexpected, very pleasant. Because I was almost sure it was going to be either Goku or Frieza who'd be the last man standing, and man am I glad it wasn't Frieza, cause he would've definitely had a selfish wish. Also anyone noticed that Frieza, when he dropped in with the rest of the dropouts, was actually missing part of his tail, similarly to the Namek Saga? Kinda odd that really. All in all though, this was probably the best way to end Super, and they are clearly hinting that the series will continue after the movie considering all the comments from the narrator. Also, with Frieza being alive again, this means they can finally lead into Kuriza being canon, Neko Majin Z next, make it happen Toei! Also, favorite new Jiren emotion: The shit eating smirk I want to point out that for some reason part of his tail was missing before that as well. I first noticed it when Jiren smashed him into the ground after Goku threw him.
Edit: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! OKKKAAAAYYYYY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....
Turns out the reason is because Jiren savagely ripped that part of his tail off. Bro...
Edit 2: *Facepalm*
Axalon Tell my why I deadass thought you were The Retro Kakarotto this whole time. Hah, yeah, I was about to share the same thing actually That does properly explain why it went missing, too bad it happened so fricking fast. Blink and you'll literally miss it.
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 4:05:48 GMT
Wow Ashy, my notifications have never been this red. Thanks for the love homie <3
Anyone notice that Jiren's entire 7 foot self was resting on Toppo's one hand, and Toppo still had room to spare? Bruh I bet this man could have flapped his hands like wings and flown while simultaneously creating a whirlwind strong enough to knock every single contestant in the tournament off the ring.Man, Toppo is the new Non-Masturbating T-Rex cause I don't see how he'd do it with those hands. Though seriously, that has to be an animation mistake because I am pretty Jiren's a lot bigger than Toppo's hand. EDIT: GUYS! HE'S BACK!!!
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Mar 25, 2018 4:21:08 GMT
Oh boy, color me fucking surprised, they actually managed to shove that all into less than 20 minutes and still made it out to be good!Granted, I wish this episode had been an hour long special and we got more time with wrapping things up. I am glad that none of the suspected fighters got the win, and that it was actually 17 that got the last man standing honor, very unexpected, very pleasant. Because I was almost sure it was going to be either Goku or Frieza who'd be the last man standing, and man am I glad it wasn't Frieza, cause he would've definitely had a selfish wish. Also anyone noticed that Frieza, when he dropped in with the rest of the dropouts, was actually missing part of his tail, similarly to the Namek Saga? Kinda odd that really. All in all though, this was probably the best way to end Super, and they are clearly hinting that the series will continue after the movie considering all the comments from the narrator. Also, with Frieza being alive again, this means they can finally lead into Kuriza being canon, Neko Majin Z next, make it happen Toei! Also, favorite new Jiren emotion: The shit eating smirk I want to point out that for some reason part of his tail was missing before that as well. I first noticed it when Jiren smashed him into the ground after Goku threw him.
Edit: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! OKKKAAAAYYYYY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....
Turns out the reason is because Jiren savagely ripped that part of his tail off. Bro...
Edit 2: *Facepalm*
Axalon Tell my why I deadass thought you were The Retro Kakarotto this whole time. You'd think I'd make such an alteration to a form of Kakarot? What an insult to my nam-... what an insult to all iterations of Son Gokus, even the evil one! To think I would've taken the form of Jiren? Pbfttt, I would soooo not be myself if that happened. barring that one time I cosplayed as Vegeta.Also, the image Kirasha was referencing was Gowasu and his GodTube account, if you couldn't see it. Edit: And he fixed the image or something, finally showing up. Lol, ninja'ed. ___ I have no words that can describe my joy right now at this ending for Super. From the surprise Goku&Frieza scene eliminating Jiren to the scene Goku flickering Super Saiyan like a light bulb made me ignore the embarrassing Vegeta defeat episode. I still have one question about the series that probably will have the same answer as before. (SS Rage Trunks) HOW DID GOKU TAP INTO ULTRA INSTINCTS BUT NONE OF THE GODS OF DESTRUCTION WERE CLOSE? EVEN GOKU CALLS HIMSELF OUT ON THIS AND SAYS THIS WAS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCOVERY! Other than that, I'm still laughing my ass off at how Cabba thought Vegeta brought them back from erasure. Heh, gonna be one hell of a story when Vegeta visits him. Cabba: Hey Master? We're back again! I knew you could win it all! Vegeta:... Cabba: Master? Vegeta: Thank the clown over there. Cabba: Wha-what? You mean Son Goku? He made the wish!? Vegeta: No, the ranger over there made it, No. 17 Cabba: But, he doesn't exude any energy, he's the one who won it all and made the wish!? Someone who doesn't even give off energy!? Vegeta: You remember Monaka a few months ago and how he managed to get Hit out of the ring? Cabba: Y-yeah? Vegeta: There's your answer.
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Post by VoidSlayer on Mar 25, 2018 4:27:29 GMT
After about 5 attempts i finally got to watch how they wrapped up the entire Super adventure within a normal, 21 minute timeframe. My reaction at the end? Look everyone's already analysed it to death but seriosuly, how good is #17? He's one of the characters that has consistencly been so much better then DBM's portrayal of him. The fact he was such a selfish bastard in Z (Ironically, pretty similar to current Gokus personality) but in Super he's really been one of THE best people throughout. The fact the entire tournament was rigged from the get go makes things work quite well actually. Tuens out there was no hidden agenda- Just a desire from the Gods to make the universes....Great again? Jirens wish i think was one of the things Tlei deccded to stick in to make Jiren have more personaility, then it was convientently forgotten about in my opinion. Axalon- Looks like Jiren only lost because he only discovered the power of friendship too late. Also your new username? The conculsion worked really well too- Things have gotten back to normal, without really retconning anything AND keeping it in line with the end of Z. Honestly if they can match th quality of this epsiode to a continuation of the series, Super will take it's place among the anime greats. It keeps Goku and Vegetas feud without making it the sole focus since the other universes will no doubt improve as well. It also (Maybe wishful thinking on my part) could lead to a multiversal enemy/baddie that they need to work together to defeat, as well as expand the other universes with adventures and journeys. Either way there are very few ways this could have been concluded better. I sign off knowing they've wrapped it up as well as they could, even Goku attaining Ultra Instinct but only being able to use it when the very universe is (literally) in peril makes the powerscaling slightly less outrageous. Well played
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 4:29:39 GMT
You'd think I'd make such an alteration to a form of Kakarot? What an insult to my nam-... what an insult to all iterations of Son Gokus, even the evil one! To think I would've taken the form of Jiren? Pbfttt, I would soooo not be myself if that happened. barring that one time I cosplayed as Vegeta.Also, the image @0nighthawk was referencing was Gowasu and his GodTube account, if you couldn't see it. You change your name once a week lmfao. Thought you made it Owari Da this week.
So that's cool.
Gotta love proboards
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Mar 25, 2018 4:38:13 GMT
The conculsion worked really well too- Things have gotten back to normal, without really retconning anything AND keeping it in line with the end of Z. Honestly if they can match th quality of this epsiode to a continuation of the series, Super will take it's place among the anime greats. It keeps Goku and Vegetas feud without making it the sole focus since the other universes will no doubt improve as well. It also (Maybe wishful thinking on my part) could lead to a multiversal enemy/baddie that they need to work together to defeat, as well as expand the other universes with adventures and journeys. You're not the only one. Here's a quick clip. [Search 17's wish eps 131 on youtube if this one gets taken down] It says "restore all of the universes that were erased" not specifically from the tournament. "6 Universes Zeno erased" Saga anyone? [supposed to be a shit eating grin for potential foreshadow, but Jiren's got a better one apparently.]
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 4:40:12 GMT
MWAHAHAHAHA. IT'S TOO LATE @thatguy ! YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN DECEIVED! IT'S OVER! OWARI DA!!! That does properly explain why it went missing, too bad it happened so fricking fast. Blink and you'll literally miss it. Can confirm. Blinked and missed Frieza's tail getting ripped off. Noticed he had a stub, but never saw how he got it. You'd think I'd make such an alteration to a form of Kakarot? What an insult to my nam-... what an insult to all iterations of Son Gokus, even the evil one! To think I would've taken the form of Jiren? Pbfttt, I would soooo not be myself if that happened. barring that one time I cosplayed as Vegeta.Filing this away for future reference. One day you'll be either Ginyu or Zamasu. I still have one question about the series that probably will have the same answer as before. (SS Rage Trunks) HOW DID GOKU TAP INTO ULTRA INSTINCTS BUT NONE OF THE GODS OF DESTRUCTION WERE CLOSE? EVEN GOKU CALLS HIMSELF OUT ON THIS AND SAYS THIS WAS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCOVERY! Well clearly they never tried having a Spirit Bomb far weaker than them implode and suck them into a different dimension so their ki can fight the weak Spirit Bomb's ki and burst past their limits, then absorb the Spirit Bomb for a recharge. Clearly.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2018 4:45:29 GMT
Surprisingly (and poignantly fitting due to earlier complaints) I do not really have much negative to say about this chapter either. Nothing specifically so. This was a very pretty dignified ending for an averagely-mediocre effort that mostly had really high highs drowned by very low lows. This ending was a good amalgam of everything that was good with Super.
However in turn I'll say things that I think could have been done better: -Beerus had too few scenes in the episode. I expected him to congratulate Goku in relief and pure joy. I also expected him to directly pay his respects to A17 and the whole team. Another thing I expected him to say to Goku, like the ToP teaser implied, was "The work of the Gods ends here". -Belmod surprisingly had very little participation as well, only saying "Jiren" a couple times. I'd have liked him to have more words, and a reaction of the angel to them being erased. Dyspo also didn't have a single line. This was the only universe with no dramatic good-bye and no angel reaction -Toppo recognizing explicitly he was wrong about Goku. This was implicit since episode 130 friendship speech, but it couldn't have gone wrong here. -A small speech of the other universes would have been cool. Notably Gowasu, Belmod and Bergamo. To know he was revived by the same people that doomed his universe must have left an impact on him as well -Quitela should have been looking at a corner pissed off out of shame due to his last-moment chimpout, much like Fat Buu was in a corner when Babidi started possessing people. -I'd also have loved some words from Hit. I mean, he was the first actual significant non-deity to be introduced in Super. -I'd have erased that vapid greedy lines A18 said. This was a total wasted opportunity to make a reference to a deceased friend. A18 could instead have said "If A16 was alive, he'd be really proud of you" and reply only with A17 smiling. This would have been totally awesome. Now that I think about it, imagine if he had used the Super Dragon Balls to revive A16?? That would have been a twist!
Also, something funny (likely also a mistake)
-Fat Kai from U6 was not restored (depicted) but Frost was, LMAO.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 4:45:52 GMT
Wait.
Shit, you're right. They never actually said what his wish was going to be. I wonder if they ever actually had a wish planned.
Also, since I'm blind as shit I didn't notice this initially, but Bulma's a real one.
Forgot to mention, in case it wasn't obvious, she gave him the same cruise ship she had her birthday party on in the beginning of the series. You know, the one they met Beerus on? The one where Goku first became a God on? Such a beautiful callback
Relevance likely lost on #17 since he was out saving wildlife from poachers and getting up to SSB+ levels by doing so without knowing there was a purple cat guy fighting Goku who had turned into a god lol. To him it's just a really nice boat.
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