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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 4:50:44 GMT
The conculsion worked really well too- Things have gotten back to normal, without really retconning anything AND keeping it in line with the end of Z. Honestly if they can match th quality of this epsiode to a continuation of the series, Super will take it's place among the anime greats. It keeps Goku and Vegetas feud without making it the sole focus since the other universes will no doubt improve as well. It also (Maybe wishful thinking on my part) could lead to a multiversal enemy/baddie that they need to work together to defeat, as well as expand the other universes with adventures and journeys. You're not the only one. Here's a quick clip. [Search 17's wish eps 131 on youtube if this one gets taken down] It says " restore all of the universes that were erased" not specifically from the tournament. "6 Universes Zeno erased" Saga anyone? [supposed to be a shit eating grin for potential foreshadow, but Jiren's got a better one apparently.] You know what this ALSO means??! He's back.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Mar 25, 2018 4:51:56 GMT
You'd think I'd make such an alteration to a form of Kakarot? What an insult to my nam-... what an insult to all iterations of Son Gokus, even the evil one! To think I would've taken the form of Jiren? Pbfttt, I would soooo not be myself if that happened. barring that one time I cosplayed as Vegeta. Filing this away for future reference. One day you'll be either Ginyu or Zamasu. Edit: Wait who's bac- FU- You know what this ALSO means??! He's back.
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 4:52:13 GMT
While I am amazed at how much they were able to shove into less than 20 minutes and still make it good, Conqueror Geng raises some good points on missed opportunities. And it just really reinforces my thoughts that this should have been an hour long special, so that we could have those moments shoved in as well, more emotion, more commentary from the people brought back to live beyond Champa. Also, with Frieza still alive, will this possibly lead into Kuriza possibly becoming true canon and not just a Neko Majin Z spin off character? Neko Majin Z's canoncity is debatable, but supposedly Kuriza is actually canon to the overal story of DB. While I doubt Toriyama had thought that far ahead and Kuriza in NMZ is most likely from Frieza before the Namek Saga, this does give a perfect opportunity to introduce the character and give him a proper spot in the series. EDIT: You're not the only one. Here's a quick clip. [Search 17's wish eps 131 on youtube if this one gets taken down] It says " restore all of the universes that were erased" not specifically from the tournament. "6 Universes Zeno erased" Saga anyone? [supposed to be a shit eating grin for potential foreshadow, but Jiren's got a better one apparently.] You know what this ALSO means??! He's back. It's....debatable. We don't know if Super Shenron's power extend to completely other Timelines, and personally said...while he supposedly can make anything happen, I do believe that it is only concerning in their own timeline/dimension, not toward others. Meaning that the likely hood of the U10 green boy being restored, quite unlikely
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2018 4:56:11 GMT
While I am amazed at how much they were able to shove into less than 20 minutes and still make it good, Conqueror Geng raises some good points on missed opportunities. And it just really reinforces my thoughts that this should have been an hour long special, so that we could have those moments shoved in as well, more emotion, more commentary from the people brought back to live beyond Champa. Also, with Frieza still alive, will this possibly lead into Kuriza possibly becoming true canon and not just a Neko Majin Z spin off character? Neko Majin Z's canoncity is debatable, but supposedly Kuriza is actually canon to the overal story of DB. While I doubt Toriyama had thought that far ahead and Kuriza in NMZ is most likely from Frieza before the Namek Saga, this does give a perfect opportunity to introduce the character and give him a proper spot in the series. I understand if you disagree, but I think that after introducing 80+ characters this should be really low in the list of priorities. I'd rather have more U6 and U11 (and possibly other universes, including the ones not participating since we never got to see them and the manga implies they have interesting things) being developed in lore rather than bringing call-backs, side characters and things like that. A new series could really benefit by expanding the lore DBS started, since DBS itself did not really do much. At this point, there are many things that were not entirely clear: -Was Jiren stronger than all GoDs or only Belmod? Even then, manga implies Jiren just can't defeat Belmod one on one, just in pure combat abilities. -Just how the fuck he managed to reach to that level? It was implied Jiren was weak initially. Was U11 so full of strong evil people back then so he could use them as stepping stones? -Can he really beat Beerus? Is Beerus really the strongest GoD? -How do the other GoDs really rank? -Did Goku really surpass Beerus? (again, lack of participation of the catman himself in this chapter didn't help) -How does one really become a GoD? Toppo just pulled a Shin-Akuma form out of his ass by forgetting justice, yet a Vegeta equivalent of Blue Kaioken slapped his ass anyway -Does Universe 11 technically have 2 Hakaishin now?
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 4:56:23 GMT
While I am amazed at how much they were able to shove into less than 20 minutes and still make it good, Conqueror Geng raises some good points on missed opportunities. And it just really reinforces my thoughts that this should have been an hour long special, so that we could have those moments shoved in as well, more emotion, more commentary from the people brought back to live beyond Champa. Also, with Frieza still alive, will this possibly lead into Kuriza possibly becoming true canon and not just a Neko Majin Z spin off character? Neko Majin Z's canoncity is debatable, but supposedly Kuriza is actually canon to the overal story of DB. While I doubt Toriyama had thought that far ahead and Kuriza in NMZ is most likely from Frieza before the Namek Saga, this does give a perfect opportunity to introduce the character and give him a proper spot in the series. EDIT: You know what this ALSO means??! He's back. It's....debatable. We don't know if Super Shenron's power extend to completely other Timelines, and personally said...while he supposedly can make anything happen, I do believe that it is only concerning in their own timeline/dimension, not toward others. Meaning that the likely hood of the U10 green boy being restored, quite unlikely Oh the odds of him actually being back are almost nil I think. I was just joking around since I'm pretty sure Toriyama/Toei/Toyotaro has already forgotten Zamasu at this point. Logically a wish from a dragon with the power to do anything WOULD bring him back since they weren't specific enough with the wish...but like I said I'm pretty sure the writers weren't thinking of Zamasu.
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Post by Kirasha on Mar 25, 2018 5:04:18 GMT
While I am amazed at how much they were able to shove into less than 20 minutes and still make it good, Conqueror Geng raises some good points on missed opportunities. And it just really reinforces my thoughts that this should have been an hour long special, so that we could have those moments shoved in as well, more emotion, more commentary from the people brought back to live beyond Champa. Also, with Frieza still alive, will this possibly lead into Kuriza possibly becoming true canon and not just a Neko Majin Z spin off character? Neko Majin Z's canoncity is debatable, but supposedly Kuriza is actually canon to the overal story of DB. While I doubt Toriyama had thought that far ahead and Kuriza in NMZ is most likely from Frieza before the Namek Saga, this does give a perfect opportunity to introduce the character and give him a proper spot in the series. I understand if you disagree, but I think that after introducing 80+ characters this should be really low in the list of priorities. I'd rather have more U6 and U11 (and possibly other universes, including the ones not participating since we never got to see them and the manga implies they have interesting things) being developed in lore rather than bringing call-backs, side characters and things like that. A new series could really benefit by expanding the lore DBS started, since DBS itself did not really do much. Oh no, I completely agree with you, I do hope the next series expands and explains what DBS itself did not expand on or explained. I'd love to see more of U6 and U11 for example as well as perhaps more slice of life episodes. I know most consider the fights the best part of the Dragon Ball series, but some extra slice of life would be quite welcome in my opinion. That being said, I would like to see Kuriza appearing, as well as that we finally get a damned name for the race itself rather than having to rely on fan names or idiotic dubism that isn't even their species (Looking at you Arcosians). While I am amazed at how much they were able to shove into less than 20 minutes and still make it good, Conqueror Geng raises some good points on missed opportunities. And it just really reinforces my thoughts that this should have been an hour long special, so that we could have those moments shoved in as well, more emotion, more commentary from the people brought back to live beyond Champa. Also, with Frieza still alive, will this possibly lead into Kuriza possibly becoming true canon and not just a Neko Majin Z spin off character? Neko Majin Z's canoncity is debatable, but supposedly Kuriza is actually canon to the overal story of DB. While I doubt Toriyama had thought that far ahead and Kuriza in NMZ is most likely from Frieza before the Namek Saga, this does give a perfect opportunity to introduce the character and give him a proper spot in the series. EDIT: It's....debatable. We don't know if Super Shenron's power extend to completely other Timelines, and personally said...while he supposedly can make anything happen, I do believe that it is only concerning in their own timeline/dimension, not toward others. Meaning that the likely hood of the U10 green boy being restored, quite unlikely Oh the odds of him actually being back are almost nil I think. I was just joking around since I'm pretty sure Toriyama/Toei/Toyotaro has already forgotten Zamasu at this point. Logically a wish from a dragon with the power to do anything WOULD bring him back since they weren't specific enough with the wish...but like I said I'm pretty sure the writers weren't thinking of Zamasu. Hah, yeah,most likely. He's not profitable anymore to them so they don't care anymore, though part of me can't deny....seeing Zamasu back would've been interesting. I honestly always thought he would be redeemed, but alas.
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Post by Namikaze on Mar 25, 2018 5:06:21 GMT
I absolutely LOVED this episode. I felt the pacing was on point when they dropped the intro and immediately went straight into the show giving it that final climatic feel to it. I expressed my grievances with #17 last week, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy him this week. I mean who would've thought that ANDROID 17, a character was somewhat a plot device in Z amounted to be such a character we see here. This guy. The sole winner of the largest and most chaotic tournament in his history! Other things I liked (mostly because I am way too tired to write more): - Jiren's character development (Toppo's speech as well) - The final cutscene (which gif also shows above) - The Universes being restored ( including my sweetheart Helles) - Goku and Frieza's team-up against Jiren - Just an overall FEEL. FREAKIN'. GOOD EPISODE! Regarding negativity: I can understand that I sounded less than enthusiastic last week, but I fail to see how I'm exactly "negative" about things? Most of my posts regarding Super are usually pretty neutral or positive as that's how I usually am when discussing with fellow fans or friends. Last week just had aspects I didn't like. It happens and I'm allowed to have those opinions as much as someone else is allowed to be hyped and enjoy it. That said I'm not typing this to start any beef with the fellow poster or anything, just standing my ground on the matter. We're all fans of Dragon Ball fellas. It's important to remember that sometimes.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 5:12:52 GMT
I understand if you disagree, but I think that after introducing 80+ characters this should be really low in the list of priorities. I'd rather have more U6 and U11 (and possibly other universes, including the ones not participating since we never got to see them and the manga implies they have interesting things) being developed in lore rather than bringing call-backs, side characters and things like that. A new series could really benefit by expanding the lore DBS started, since DBS itself did not really do much. Oh no, I completely agree with you, I do hope the next series expands and explains what DBS itself did not expand on or explained. I'd love to see more of U6 and U11 for example as well as perhaps more slice of life episodes. I know most consider the fights the best part of the Dragon Ball series, but some extra slice of life would be quite welcome in my opinion. That being said, I would like to see Kuriza appearing, as well as that we finally get a damned name for the race itself rather than having to rely on fan names or idiotic dubism that isn't even their species (Looking at you Arcosians). Oh the odds of him actually being back are almost nil I think. I was just joking around since I'm pretty sure Toriyama/Toei/Toyotaro has already forgotten Zamasu at this point. Logically a wish from a dragon with the power to do anything WOULD bring him back since they weren't specific enough with the wish...but like I said I'm pretty sure the writers weren't thinking of Zamasu. Hah, yeah,most likely. He's not profitable anymore to them so they don't care anymore, though part of me can't deny....seeing Zamasu back would've been interesting. I honestly always thought he would be redeemed, but alas. I think a post-ToP Zamasu would be interesting. What does he do now that he knows his plans were foiled? How does he react when, out of abject despair he limps back home and turns on the Godtube to find that--of all people--that DAMNABLE NINGEN SON GOKUUUUUH has mastered Ultra Instinct, which not even the Gods of Destruction can do?! His brain would probably explode from sheer rage...and then regenerate, because he's immortal. Nevermind the fact that there's also another NINGEN who, without even using god ki, is on par if not stronger than a God of Destruction? Zamasu must really regret his choice of bodies upon learning of Jiren's existence. Imagine if he'd taken Jiren instead of Goku? Would he actually attempt this plan in a hypothetical Round 2? Just steal Jiren's body? How would Jiren's already considerable power be when amped up with Zamasu's god ki? Alas, we will never know.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2018 5:16:44 GMT
Oh no, I completely agree with you, I do hope the next series expands and explains what DBS itself did not expand on or explained. I'd love to see more of U6 and U11 for example as well as perhaps more slice of life episodes. I know most consider the fights the best part of the Dragon Ball series, but some extra slice of life would be quite welcome in my opinion. That being said, I would like to see Kuriza appearing, as well as that we finally get a damned name for the race itself rather than having to rely on fan names or idiotic dubism that isn't even their species (Looking at you Arcosians). Hah, yeah,most likely. He's not profitable anymore to them so they don't care anymore, though part of me can't deny....seeing Zamasu back would've been interesting. I honestly always thought he would be redeemed, but alas. I think a post-ToP Zamasu would be interesting. What does he do now that he knows his plans were foiled? How does he react when, out of abject despair he limps back home and turns on the Godtube to find that--of all people--that DAMNABLE NINGEN SON GOKUUUUUH has mastered Ultra Instinct, which not even the Gods of Destruction can do?! His brain would probably explode from sheer rage...and then regenerate, because he's immortal. Nevermind the fact that there's also another NINGEN who, without even using god ki, is on par if not stronger than a God of Destruction? Zamasu must really regret his choice of bodies upon learning of Jiren's existence. Imagine if he'd taken Jiren instead of Goku? Would he actually attempt this plan in a hypothetical Round 2? Just steal Jiren's body? How would Jiren's already considerable power be when amped up with Zamasu's god ki? Alas, we will never know. Imagine a green Immortal Jiren fused with Zamasu... I am really glad Jiren can't use potaras.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 5:22:31 GMT
I think a post-ToP Zamasu would be interesting. What does he do now that he knows his plans were foiled? How does he react when, out of abject despair he limps back home and turns on the Godtube to find that--of all people--that DAMNABLE NINGEN SON GOKUUUUUH has mastered Ultra Instinct, which not even the Gods of Destruction can do?! His brain would probably explode from sheer rage...and then regenerate, because he's immortal. Nevermind the fact that there's also another NINGEN who, without even using god ki, is on par if not stronger than a God of Destruction? Zamasu must really regret his choice of bodies upon learning of Jiren's existence. Imagine if he'd taken Jiren instead of Goku? Would he actually attempt this plan in a hypothetical Round 2? Just steal Jiren's body? How would Jiren's already considerable power be when amped up with Zamasu's god ki? Alas, we will never know. Imagine a green Immortal Jiren fused with Zamasu... I am really glad Jiren can't use potaras. Why not? Jiren has ears after all, they're just Frieza-style cones and not human style ears. I'd imagine he'd look like this: Then he runs into an alternate timeline Jiren, who confronts him. Many explosions and OWARI DAs happen.
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Post by Namikaze on Mar 25, 2018 5:40:11 GMT
I'm expecting there to ramifications to the wording #17 said in the wish even though I'm not too sure about Zamasu. Zalama seems like the kind of wish-granting dragon that takes any wish literally and everyone ripping the results of that.
But imagine if it is the case. Frieza, Zamasu, and many other unknown threats in the erased universes? Goku and co. have really gotten themselves into a bind this time,huh?
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 5:42:49 GMT
I'm expecting there to ramifications to the wording #17 said in the wish even though I'm not too sure about Zamasu. Zalama seems like the kind of wish-granting dragon that takes any wish literally and everyone ripping the results of that. But imagine if it is the case. Frieza, Zamasu, and many other unknown threats in the erased universes? Goku and co. have really gotten themselves into a bind this time,huh? Goku couldn't be any happier that all these potential universe-ending threats have appeared from the erased universes. Before Jiren got erased he was already saying that he hadn't had enough fighting yet!
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Post by VoidSlayer on Mar 25, 2018 8:31:28 GMT
The conculsion worked really well too- Things have gotten back to normal, without really retconning anything AND keeping it in line with the end of Z. Honestly if they can match th quality of this epsiode to a continuation of the series, Super will take it's place among the anime greats. It keeps Goku and Vegetas feud without making it the sole focus since the other universes will no doubt improve as well. It also (Maybe wishful thinking on my part) could lead to a multiversal enemy/baddie that they need to work together to defeat, as well as expand the other universes with adventures and journeys. You're not the only one. Here's a quick clip. [Search 17's wish eps 131 on youtube if this one gets taken down] It says "restore all of the universes that were erased" not specifically from the tournament. "6 Universes Zeno erased" Saga anyone? [supposed to be a shit eating grin for potential foreshadow, but Jiren's got a better one apparently.] It sounds excellent (Potentially) but really it'll be like 'Perfect' Ki control, Jirens wish and other things that were referenced troughout the series but then cast aside like old undies. One can wish though.
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Post by thejakub on Mar 25, 2018 11:38:07 GMT
Oh boy, color me fucking surprised, they actually managed to shove that all into less than 20 minutes and still made it out to be good!Granted, I wish this episode had been an hour long special and we got more time with wrapping things up. I am glad that none of the suspected fighters got the win, and that it was actually 17 that got the last man standing honor, very unexpected, very pleasant. Because I was almost sure it was going to be either Goku or Frieza who'd be the last man standing, and man am I glad it wasn't Frieza, cause he would've definitely had a selfish wish. Also anyone noticed that Frieza, when he dropped in with the rest of the dropouts, was actually missing part of his tail, similarly to the Namek Saga? Kinda odd that really. All in all though, this was probably the best way to end Super, and they are clearly hinting that the series will continue after the movie considering all the comments from the narrator. Also, with Frieza being alive again, this means they can finally lead into Kuriza being canon, Neko Majin Z next, make it happen Toei! Also, favorite new Jiren emotion: The shit eating smirk I have been wondering for the long time why this face looks familiar. And then, i realized:
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 25, 2018 17:53:58 GMT
A popular theory is going around that when Android 17 wished to have all erased universes restored, he meant both the destroyed 7 and the previous 6 universe so many years back. Whether this interpretation is correct or not, it would be dope if it was true and we could have the opportunity to see six additional previous gods, angels, kaioshin, and powerful warriors on deck. It will ultimately add more to the lore that Super is trying to create.
But now that the hype is over and my logical mind has once again resurfaced, why is Zeno so happy and dead set on seeing this specific wish made? Has he forgotten that he himself has destroyed six previous universes on a tantrum and not once decided to bring them back? Or the fact Future Zeno erased uncountable number of good lives over the simple fact of Zamasu being a punk ass? And by uncountable I mean the entire multiverse, Grand Priest, afterlife and all. It kinda weird and contrived how both Zeno's sense of morality works. You want mortals to evolve and change by stop being selfish, yet fail to realize your own fallacies. Contradiction at its finest folks.
Now that I think about it, if Whis ability to resurrect dead people can be abused, this could allow the z-fighters to have another unfair advantage over everyone per Beerus acceptance. For example if Goku dies, Whis can bring him back just like that. Or if Goku wants to fight against Broly or Cell in Hell, he could have them resurrected to see if they can survive against his SSJB powers. Makes you wonder what else Whis can do. I think he is shy away from being able to grant immortality or resurrect multiple people simultaneously at this rate.
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Post by Archon on Mar 25, 2018 19:52:07 GMT
But was the stuff Alternate Timeline Zeno erased just a universe in a different timeline or would it still count? Because the whole idea of timelines and universes is very complicated and confusing. I’m going to assume Zamasu did not get brought back and Zeno just erased that timeline and not an entire universe.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 20:15:33 GMT
A popular theory is going around that when Android 17 wished to have all erased universes restored, he meant both the destroyed 7 and the previous 6 universe so many years back. Whether this interpretation is correct or not, it would be dope if it was true and we could have the opportunity to see six additional previous gods, angels, kaioshin, and powerful warriors on deck. It will ultimately add more to the lore that Super is trying to create. But now that the hype is over and my logical mind has once again resurfaced, why is Zeno so happy and dead set on seeing this specific wish made? Has he forgotten that he himself has destroyed six previous universes on a tantrum and not once decided to bring them back? Or the fact Future Zeno erased uncountable number of good lives over the simple fact of Zamasu being a punk ass? And by uncountable I mean the entire multiverse, Grand Priest, afterlife and all. It kinda weird and contrived how both Zeno's sense of morality works. You want mortals to evolve and change by stop being selfish, yet fail to realize your own fallacies. Contradiction at its finest folks. Now that I think about it, if Whis ability to resurrect dead people can be abused, this could allow the z-fighters to have another unfair advantage over everyone per Beerus acceptance. For example if Goku dies, Whis can bring him back just like that. Or if Goku wants to fight against Broly or Cell in Hell, he could have them resurrected to see if they can survive against his SSJB powers. Makes you wonder what else Whis can do. I think he is shy away from being able to grant immortality or resurrect multiple people simultaneously at this rate. I think the thing we're missing here is context. Exactly WHY did he wipe out those previous 6 universes? He threw a tantrum, yes, but what caused it? Did someone take his pudding a la Beerus? Did someone actually try to attack him? Were those 6 universes plotting to overthrow him? Had all 6 universes lost their way and each created their own genocidal Zamasus trying to wipe out all mortal existence? I doubt they'll explore this lore they set up so I doubt we'll ever know because it isn't Goku-related. As for Whis, Goku doesn't actually need him to fight people in Hell. He's able to visit Hell just fine as shown when he stopped by to recruit Frieza. I'm just hoping Cell is also there and hasn't been reincarnated, though given that Toriyama (I think it was Toriyama?) didn't like drawing Cell because of his complicated design I'm pretty sure, sadly, that the Perfect Being is no more.
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Post by Jason9000 on Mar 25, 2018 21:58:34 GMT
Alright this’ll be a shorter review from me as I’m on my phone and won’t have access to a computer till tomorrow. I’ll leave a bigger review then.
Happy New Year Middle-Earth fans as that’s waaaay more important! XD
Overall I thought it was a good send off. Granted I wish the fighting stopped last episode and this entire one was just he wrap up. I really liked Jiren’s development along with Toppo. I’ve yet to see anyone get upset by this and would be shocked if someone was. Frieza coming back to life is....interesting. I just hope he doesn’t keep popping in and out with no explanation. I was surprised Beerus nor Whis made any final comments as this series started with them and all we got was a quick shot of Beerus eating. I’m starting to think the guy could out eat the Saiyans. Anyway that’s my thoughts for now till tomorrow. So here’s a question for you all. You think they’ll now ‘debuff’ Jiren as Goku SOMEHOW lost the ability to go ultra instinct and just have Jiren be at blue levels of power?
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Post by Azoth on Mar 25, 2018 23:20:30 GMT
Alright this’ll be a shorter review from me as I’m on my phone and won’t have access to a computer till tomorrow. I’ll leave a bigger review then. Happy New Year Middle-Earth fans as that’s waaaay more important! XD Overall I thought it was a good send off. Granted I wish the fighting stopped last episode and this entire one was just he wrap up. I really liked Jiren’s development along with Toppo. I’ve yet to see anyone get upset by this and would be shocked if someone was. Frieza coming back to life is....interesting. I just hope he doesn’t keep popping in and out with no explanation. I was surprised Beerus nor Whis made any final comments as this series started with them and all we got was a quick shot of Beerus eating. I’m starting to think the guy could out eat the Saiyans. Anyway that’s my thoughts for now till tomorrow. So here’s a question for you all. You think they’ll now ‘debuff’ Jiren as Goku SOMEHOW lost the ability to go ultra instinct and just have Jiren be at blue levels of power? I don't think so, at least not immediately. He's the new goal for Goku to try and surpass, and since saiyans have no limit to how strong they can get, he'll close the gap. Whether or not that means he'll be able to call on UI at any time to do so is up in the air.
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Post by Axalon on Mar 25, 2018 23:52:19 GMT
Alright this’ll be a shorter review from me as I’m on my phone and won’t have access to a computer till tomorrow. I’ll leave a bigger review then. Happy New Year Middle-Earth fans as that’s waaaay more important! XD Overall I thought it was a good send off. Granted I wish the fighting stopped last episode and this entire one was just he wrap up. I really liked Jiren’s development along with Toppo. I’ve yet to see anyone get upset by this and would be shocked if someone was. Frieza coming back to life is....interesting. I just hope he doesn’t keep popping in and out with no explanation. I was surprised Beerus nor Whis made any final comments as this series started with them and all we got was a quick shot of Beerus eating. I’m starting to think the guy could out eat the Saiyans. Anyway that’s my thoughts for now till tomorrow. So here’s a question for you all. You think they’ll now ‘debuff’ Jiren as Goku SOMEHOW lost the ability to go ultra instinct and just have Jiren be at blue levels of power?What this really means is that Goku hasn't *really* mastered Ultra Instinct. He just hasn't. If he had he could enter it at will at the very least. At best he's simply gotten used to being in the form in the span of 3 minutes. What this has done is ensure that if the next antagonist doesn't immediately kill Goku and instead just keeps pushing him into a corner beyond all hope (as is shonen tradition) then Goku will unleash UI again later on down the road. As for Jiren getting debuffed? Nah. They'll just introduce someone STRONGER than him. EDIT: If anything Jiren will only get stronger since now he has a goal to achieve. Defeating Goku.
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