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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 10, 2016 19:57:08 GMT
Episode 61 Spoilers that will force you to watch the episode. Read at your own risk. No seriously, I put this warning already. Don't say it's my fault. I'm literally typing lines so that you get disinterested and go watch the episode. Last chance before you get spoiled 1. Trunks. WTF!? Watched this before subs came out. I'm thinking he's a False Super Saiyan Blue. Has double aura like SSB Kaioken. Seriously, he lost his pupils again. He's that powerful or pissed or both. Or a nod to Legendary Super Saiyan. Which I doubt
2. Scenes referring to Androids saga Either Zamasu and Goku Black say it's Trunk's fault for Creating Goku Black and making Zamasu distrustful of humans, or just another banter about time travel is against the rules 3. SSB Goku Vs SSR Goku Black Goku may have gotten badass in this fight... now I'm starting to find Super!Goku a bit frightening when pissed instead of stupid. 4. That stabbing of Goku tho... damn. 5. Alternate Timeline I'm confused. Zamasu swapped bodies with Goku in another timeline at the beginning of Dragon Ball Super. Which timeline would that be? Anyone else think there's gonna be another anime but with Black as the protagonist? XD 6. Ha. Bro hug. 7. Somebody search YouTube, cuz there's a better "Desperate Assault" now that Trunks went SS Blue Super Saiyan... wait... what the hell is he? Note to the mods because I don't want to make a separate post. When I tried to edit this post, I didn't see the spoiler tag so I had to retype an entirely new one. Is there a way to mimic DBM's post so that when we edit, we would also see the spoiler tag "code" written out as well? Thanks for reading. There are english subs now on youtube videos of the episode. Zamasu blames Trunks for his hatred of humans. He says if he hadn't gone back in time he wouldn't have been able to get Goku's body because the heart virus would have killed him. Episode with english subs: Damn. Being told trying to save others by meddling in time was bad enough but being told your Mortal and Immortal enemy came to be because of said meddling must be the worst thing Trunks could've been told.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 1:38:00 GMT
It is comforting knowing there are members of the DBM community that aren't always shitting on DBS just for the fuck of it. I read a summary for ep 61 that made me laugh much harder than I should have. Vegeta - MY BULMA. Goku - MY CHI CHI. Trunks - MY TIMELINE. This weeks ep is in my DBS top 3 for sure. Even the usual quality issues can't bog it down because it was so bloody good from start to finish. The way Black/Zamasu tag team Goku. The way they convey themselves. Awesome. This is the first time I have felt like the bad cunts in DB are literal bad cunts. Black stabbin Goku through Zamasu and the following monologue was realised very well. Props to the director and voices actors. I like how Zamasu accepts he is weak, so gains immortality to not only compensate, but to reaffirm both his status as God of Justice and desire to enforce it eternally. It pairs well with Black because though they share the same goal, it shows how having enough physical strength can make you feel invincible, changing one's overall attitude/outlook, which can lead to a change of methods used to get the same result. Hopefully I am wrong, but I bet Black will clash with Zamasu because of these differences at a critical moment that benefits our protagonists. God I hope I'm wrong. I am enjoying their current teamwork and want them both to go down swinging with their justified, albeit extreme ideals, intact. Should be interesting to see how much Black regrets not getting immortality, if at all, when he inevitably dies. I highly doubt this will be a thing, but I wonder what would happen if they fused with the Potara earrings as a last ditch effort? Same minds, different bodies. As much as Goku shits me, his IT back hander into Zamasu's face instantly became no2 on my toughest scenes in all of DB, second only to Gohan's original SSJ2 Japanese transformation. Speaking of, Trunks' transformation seems to be getting a lot of attention for it's inner blue hue and 'inspiration'. Brolytards just, ugh, forget it... As for the inner blue hue, I am thinking it is surely because he couldn't obtain SSJ3 properly (lack of strength or ki control) much like he failed to do with SSJ2 during the Cell Saga or it is purely for artistic reasons. Goku can't hog the entire dual-tinted aura animation budget for himself. However, because so many people across numerous comment sections seem to believe it is related to God ki, which just makes no sense whatsoever, I am almost scared that it may very well end up being the case. I seriously don't understand the logic behind their reasoning, but hey, positive conversation spanning the vast majority of the DBS fanbase? That's a welcome first. Maybe Trunks is the Hype? Also, it is a nice change of pace to have a DB villain that has legitimate reasons, however distorted or extreme, for their motives/actions. Freeza was portrayed well enough to be both hated and loved. Here's to Zamasu and Black achieving that too. In the end though, it is a shame that the Ring-A-King button exists, completely ruins any possible tension and takes the shine off from good eps like this. Oh well. I probably shouldn't be doing this but...
Very reliable site. You can choose to watch without ads and whatnot, very good in my opinion.
I concur, excellent site. New eps are usually uploaded very quickly. I like to support the cause and go official at every opportunity but sadly, I have to use their services more than I should because Crunchy Roll doesn't like Australia apparently... Only downside is the randomly skewed attitudes of their Disqus mods. Any comment with spoilers, even if hidden under spoiler tags equals instant permaban. No ifs or buts. Why do people read the episode comment section before watching the episode then cry about having it spoiled? Also it is apparently A OK for some prick to basically demand ASL of an anime's producer so he/she can shoot them dead, but I can't reply to said person with shoot yourself instead?? Ridiculous. My reply is deleted then I am permabanned, meanwhile that arsehole carries on to proclaim their right to an opinion, throws out some lame insults then upvotes him/herself for their efforts, PLUS has others cheering them on for using their right to said opinion and for standing up to an online bully? WTF??!?
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 11, 2016 1:47:16 GMT
It is comforting knowing there are members of the DBM community that aren't always shitting on DBS just for the fuck of it. I read a summary for ep 61 that made me laugh much harder than I should have. Vegeta - MY BULMA. Goku - MY CHI CHI. Trunks - MY TIMELINE. This weeks ep is in my DBS top 3 for sure. Even the usual quality issues can't bog it down because it was so bloody good from start to finish. The way Black/Zamasu tag team Goku. The way they convey themselves. Awesome. This is the first time I have felt like the bad cunts in DB are literal bad cunts. Black stabbin Goku through Zamasu and the following monologue was realised very well. Props to the director and voices actors. I like how Zamasu accepts he is weak, so gains immortality to not only compensate, but to reaffirm both his status as God of Justice and desire to enforce it eternally. It pairs well with Black because though they share the same goal, it shows how having enough physical strength can make you feel invincible, changing one's overall attitude/outlook, which can lead to a change of methods used to get the same result. Hopefully I am wrong, but I bet Black will clash with Zamasu because of these differences at a critical moment that benefits our protagonists. God I hope I'm wrong. I am enjoying their current teamwork and want them both to go down swinging with their justified, albeit extreme ideals, intact. Should be interesting to see how much Black regrets not getting immortality, if at all, when he inevitably dies. I highly doubt this will be a thing, but I wonder what would happen if they fused with the Potara earrings as a last ditch effort? Same minds, different bodies. As much as Goku shits me, his IT back hander into Zamasu's face instantly became no2 on my toughest scenes in all of DB, second only to Gohan's original SSJ2 Japanese transformation. Speaking of, Trunks' transformation seems to be getting a lot of attention for it's inner blue hue and 'inspiration'. Brolytards just, ugh, forget it... As for the inner blue hue, I am thinking it is surely because he couldn't obtain SSJ3 properly (lack of strength or ki control) much like he failed to do with SSJ2 during the Cell Saga or it is purely for artistic reasons. Goku can't hog the entire dual-tinted aura animation budget for himself. However, because so many people across numerous comment sections seem to believe it is related to God ki, which just makes no sense whatsoever, I am almost scared that it may very well end up being the case. I seriously don't understand the logic behind their reasoning, but hey, positive conversation spanning the vast majority of the DBS fanbase? That's a welcome first. Maybe Trunks is the Hype? Also, it is a nice change of pace to have a DB villain that has legitimate reasons, however distorted or extreme, for their motives/actions. Freeza was portrayed well enough to be both hated and loved. Here's to Zamasu and Black achieving that too. In the end though, it is a shame that the Ring-A-King button exists, completely ruins any possible tension and takes the shine off from good eps like this. Oh well. I probably shouldn't be doing this but...
Very reliable site. You can choose to watch without ads and whatnot, very good in my opinion.
I concur, excellent site. New eps are usually uploaded very quickly. I like to support the cause and go official at every opportunity but sadly, I have to use their services more than I should because Crunchy Roll doesn't like Australia apparently... Only downside is the randomly skewed attitudes of their Disqus mods. Any comment with spoilers, even if hidden under spoiler tags equals instant permaban. No ifs or buts. Why do people read the episode comment section before watching the episode then cry about having it spoiled? Also it is apparently A OK for some prick to basically demand ASL of an anime's producer so he/she can shoot them dead, but I can't reply to said person with shoot yourself instead?? Ridiculous. My reply is deleted then I am permabanned, meanwhile that arsehole carries on to proclaim their right to an opinion, throws out some lame insults then upvotes him/herself for their efforts, PLUS has others cheering them on for using their right to said opinion and for standing up to an online bully? WTF??!? Hey that's the best part, there's some members that actually like non-canon DBM stuff (didn't specify which ) Well Zamasu and Black are technically Zamasu. But the question is why did Black decide to not be immortal? Inuniverse reason to be specific. Out of universe, that would just create a foil which I like. Also, how does the Destroyer God's life connection work now that Zamasu assumed Supreme Kai? Like he killed the old one, and became the new one. Did the D.G die and came back or is he dead for good? Trunk's Form was poking a joke at LSS but to consider only the canon material, his exposure to SSB Vegeta could be an untrained hybrid SSB (or as That Guy and I jokingly called, Demi SS God). I mean that was part of how Vegeta became Blue. Exposure to Whis and Beerus during that 6 months of training.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 2:36:17 GMT
Hey that's the best part, there's some members that actually like non-canon DBM stuff (didn't specify which ;)) Well Zamasu and Black are technically Zamasu. But the question is why did Black decide to not be immortal? Inuniverse reason to be specific. Out of universe, that would just create a foil which I like. Also, how does the Destroyer God's life connection work now that Zamasu assumed Supreme Kai? Like he killed the old one, and became the new one. Did the D.G die and came back or is he dead for good? Trunk's Form was poking a joke at LSS but to consider only the canon material, his exposure to SSB Vegeta could be an untrained hybrid SSB (or as That Guy and I jokingly called, Demi SS God). I mean that was part of how Vegeta became Blue. Exposure to Whis and Beerus during that 6 months of training. Not wanting immortality is most likely the side effect of overwhelming confidence from gaining such a strong body. The curiosity levels for testing the ever increasing abilities the new body provides would be through the roof and being a warrior type he feels it would cheapen the thrill? Maybe he just doesn't care, seeing that at least one Zamasu is immortal? Maybe he is lying? Since the Supreme Kai died before passing the torch, logic would suggest that universes GoD died along with him. But DB and logic only cross paths occasionally, so eh, we are gonna have to wait to find out 100% As a Gohan fanboi, I am hoping that DBS is echoing Trunks' failed power up against Cell which Gohan perfected. All this time off screen was not wasted on mundane things like being a good husband or father or being a constructive member of society, but spent on doing some random as fuck god training with Piccolo in another universe. Out of the blue Gohan swings in, shows off a shiny new transformation, saves the day, punches Goku in the dick, then goes home to be a family man.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 11, 2016 4:49:14 GMT
Hey that's the best part, there's some members that actually like non-canon DBM stuff (didn't specify which ) Well Zamasu and Black are technically Zamasu. But the question is why did Black decide to not be immortal? Inuniverse reason to be specific. Out of universe, that would just create a foil which I like. Also, how does the Destroyer God's life connection work now that Zamasu assumed Supreme Kai? Like he killed the old one, and became the new one. Did the D.G die and came back or is he dead for good? Trunk's Form was poking a joke at LSS but to consider only the canon material, his exposure to SSB Vegeta could be an untrained hybrid SSB (or as That Guy and I jokingly called, Demi SS God). I mean that was part of how Vegeta became Blue. Exposure to Whis and Beerus during that 6 months of training. Not wanting immortality is most likely the side effect of overwhelming confidence from gaining such a strong body. The curiosity levels for testing the ever increasing abilities the new body provides would be through the roof and being a warrior type he feels it would cheapen the thrill? Maybe he just doesn't care, seeing that at least one Zamasu is immortal? Maybe he is lying? Since the Supreme Kai died before passing the torch, logic would suggest that universes GoD died along with him. But DB and logic only cross paths occasionally, so eh, we are gonna have to wait to find out 100% As a Gohan fanboi, I am hoping that DBS is echoing Trunks' failed power up against Cell which Gohan perfected. All this time off screen was not wasted on mundane things like being a good husband or father or being a constructive member of society, but spent on doing some random as fuck god training with Piccolo in another universe. Out of the blue Gohan swings in, shows off a shiny new transformation, saves the day, punches Goku in the dick, then goes home to be a family man. What about Vegeta Saiyan Saga? Prior to the audience told there exists Frieza, he's a Saiyan, he believed he was the strongest, why did he desire immortality if he believed his zenkais would be enough or his power was enough to go unchallenged? Oh great, now we're gonna have to speculate if U10 GoD is alive or dead. I'm gonna admit. I wish that actually happened, even if it was offscreen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 7:17:17 GMT
What about Vegeta Saiyan Saga? Prior to the audience told there exists Frieza, he's a Saiyan, he believed he was the strongest, why did he desire immortality if he believed his zenkais would be enough or his power was enough to go unchallenged? Oh great, now we're gonna have to speculate if U10 GoD is alive or dead. I'm gonna admit. I wish that actually happened, even if it was offscreen. The audience knowing about Freeza is irrelevant. Besides, Vegeta doesn't mention Freeza or the Ginyu Force this early in the series because those are spoilers and he isn't a complete monster. Being an egotistical megalomaniac that gets off on galaxy wide genocide and well, violence in general, so much he wanted to be able to do it forever that something like immortality would look pretty damn tasty indeed. He is a Prince and was easily the strongest Saiyan in many generations, therefore the power of Legend being his birthright was most likely force fed into him, leading him to believe his own hype. I mean struth, this is how delusional he was back then, before Goku and co handed him his arse from which he scored a zenkai, he was as weak as Cui ffs. Otherwise I can only assume AT had him subconsciously aware he stood absolutely no chance against Freeza without immortality. We don't really need to speculate about U10 GoD do we? Can't we just forget and be surprised if anything regarding it happens down the track? If anything, I would rather speculate about how long Trunks' moment of glory will last next episode. By rights, he should be done by the 10 min mark.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 11, 2016 8:01:17 GMT
When you like or thumbs up your own comment IMO, DBS humor is generally pretty bland as it comes (notably food stuff and Pilaf), but this particular scene got me laughing hard for the whole rest of the chapter. The choreography, the whole context of the situation, their facial expressions, the advanced 360º rotation (hard to animate this!). It looks eerie, creepy and somehow menacing in a way... yet at the same time it's just too funny for a reason I can't quite tell. I am having a hard time understanding what they were truly trying to convey with that particular scene, but either way it looked amazing, whatever the hell it was. Uninentional humor that tops the rest of it in the series, yet still making it look somehow ominous... is something truly hard to portray at the same time. Without a doubt, this is one of my favorite moments in DBS
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Post by Archon on Oct 11, 2016 9:36:33 GMT
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Post by Axalon on Oct 11, 2016 14:14:46 GMT
His power is MAXIMUM.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 11, 2016 16:33:27 GMT
When you like or thumbs up your own comment IMO, DBS humor is generally pretty bland as it comes (notably food stuff and Pilaf), but this particular scene got me laughing hard for the whole rest of the chapter. The choreography, the whole context of the situation, their facial expressions, the advanced 360º rotation (hard to animate this!). It looks eerie, creepy and somehow menacing in a way... yet at the same time it's just too funny for a reason I can't quite tell. I am having a hard time understanding what they were truly trying to convey with that particular scene, but either way it looked amazing, whatever the hell it was. Uninentional humor that tops the rest of it in the series, yet still making it look somehow ominous... is something truly hard to portray at the same time. Without a doubt, this is one of my favorite moments in DBS Shot in the dark? "Finally, someone who agrees with me. Welcome brother!" "Actually I'm you from another timeline." "... Welcome brother!" XD I guess for Zamasu it's more dramatic (and unintentional humor) cuz he's a Kaioshin, creation. But no one else could see his view about humans... mortals so when Black came, it's like finding someone that finally agrees with you.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 11, 2016 16:42:09 GMT
What about Vegeta Saiyan Saga? Prior to the audience told there exists Frieza, he's a Saiyan, he believed he was the strongest, why did he desire immortality if he believed his zenkais would be enough or his power was enough to go unchallenged? Oh great, now we're gonna have to speculate if U10 GoD is alive or dead. I'm gonna admit. I wish that actually happened, even if it was offscreen. The audience knowing about Freeza is irrelevant. Besides, Vegeta doesn't mention Freeza or the Ginyu Force this early in the series because those are spoilers and he isn't a complete monster. Being an egotistical megalomaniac that gets off on galaxy wide genocide and well, violence in general, so much he wanted to be able to do it forever that something like immortality would look pretty damn tasty indeed. He is a Prince and was easily the strongest Saiyan in many generations, therefore the power of Legend being his birthright was most likely force fed into him, leading him to believe his own hype. I mean struth, this is how delusional he was back then, before Goku and co handed him his arse from which he scored a zenkai, he was as weak as Cui ffs. Otherwise I can only assume AT had him subconsciously aware he stood absolutely no chance against Freeza without immortality. We don't really need to speculate about U10 GoD do we? Can't we just forget and be surprised if anything regarding it happens down the track? If anything, I would rather speculate about how long Trunks' moment of glory will last next episode. By rights, he should be done by the 10 min mark. When I said the audience doesn't know of Frieza, I meant at the time of Vegeta's arrival, we had assumed he was the big bad. HE wanted immortality at that time cuz we thought of him as the strongest being alive. Securing his [Prince Vegeta's] place as the strongest in the universe (cough cough Beerus bitching King Vegeta, ahem) with immortality as a fail safe sounds like a good plan. This, waayy before we were introduced to Cui, Zarbon, Dodoria, Frieza, etc. Now for the comparison, after Zamasu got Goku's bod and became Black, he could have secured his place as the strongest in the universe so he could go unchallenged. But why were Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Black's opinions different towards immortality if they both believed to be the strongest? What was so different in their desires to be the strongest (and unopposed)? "Speculate" meh I'm just saying it's about as important as "speculating" if Zeno would've fought the duo or not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 8:35:18 GMT
Dude, he knew Freeza almost his entire life, why does us not knowing about Freeza at x time alter Vegetas reasons for immortality? That makes no sense.
Vegeta stating his is the strongest during the first saga is him stroking his ego and basic intimidation before/during a fight. Black on the other hand has pretty much every right to believe with 100% certainty he currently the strongest.
Don't mean to be rude, but please have a good think about it mate. I'm knackered atm and cbf explaining the painfully obvious differences any further.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 12, 2016 17:49:40 GMT
Dude, he knew Freeza almost his entire life, why does us not knowing about Freeza at x time alter Vegetas reasons for immortality? That makes no sense. Vegeta stating his is the strongest during the first saga is him stroking his ego and basic intimidation before/during a fight. Black on the other hand has pretty much every right to believe with 100% certainty he currently the strongest. Don't mean to be rude, but please have a good think about it mate. I'm knackered atm and cbf explaining the painfully obvious differences any further. Same thing for Frieza and Majin Buu/Beerus, just saying. Neither of the latter were known till later but by that logic, Frieza knew the whole time someone else was stronger, yet he kept boasting about him being the strongest. Look where that lead him 20 something years later irl. He became discreditable. Hell Vegeta knew Beerus in his childhood, just forgot the face. In-universe they lied so they intimidate their foes. That's fine. Out-universe we see it as a bullshit claim. Point trying (and apparently failing) to get across is that Zamasu played it safe with the immortality thing so he could proceed with the Zero Mortal Plan. Black (being alternate timeline Zamasu) could've played it safe. Maybe he didn't think so at the time of the body swap but he got his ass whopped by Goku when he taunted about how he killed Goku's family. Sure he survived but anymore damage and he could've actually died. Now how can he execute the ZM plan? Think of it this way. He could still get boosts from near death AND get instant heal (apparently that comes with Immortality as shown with Zamasu...). If he was testing his body and it turned out to be weaker than his foes, then he has a contingency plan. If he's stronger, well then no need to invoke immortality because he can beat them, great for him. He'd benefit either way. Now back to Frieza's fallback plan in RoF. He had a ray gun ready to use in case it turned out he was weaker than Goku. Now ignoring how he actually managed to get Goku down, at least he had a contingency plan. If Black was in a similar situation, what would he do? Call Zamasu for help? If Zamasu is unconscious or occupied fighting someone else, then Black is officially screwed cuz he didn't bother to jump in time and prepare himself. Also. It is your call to respond or not. No one is obligated to do so.
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Post by Ashanark on Oct 12, 2016 18:07:17 GMT
Point trying (and apparently failing) to get across is that Zamasu played it safe with the immortality thing so he could proceed with the Zero Mortal Plan. Black (being alternate timeline Zamasu) could've played it safe. Maybe he didn't think so at the time of the body swap but he got his ass whopped by Goku when he taunted about how he killed Goku's family. Sure he survived but anymore damage and he could've actually died. Now how can he execute the ZM plan? Think of it this way. He could still get boosts from near death AND get instant heal (apparently that comes with Immortality as shown with Zamasu...). If he was testing his body and it turned out to be weaker than his foes, then he has a contingency plan. If he's stronger, well then no need to invoke immortality because he can beat them, great for him. He'd benefit either way. Now back to Frieza's fallback plan in RoF. He had a ray gun ready to use in case it turned out he was weaker than Goku. Now ignoring how he actually managed to get Goku down, at least he had a contingency plan. If Black was in a similar situation, what would he do? Call Zamasu for help? If Zamasu is unconscious or occupied fighting someone else, then Black is officially screwed cuz he didn't bother to jump in time and prepare himself. The out-of-universe reason for Black not being immortal is that it'd make him broken and Zamasu redundant, but I hope there's an in-universe explanation, too, other than the cliche "Black doesn't think he needs it because he's so strong now." Super seems to be bringing back the concept of zenkai--that Saiyans get stronger when they almost die. So the only in-universe explanation I can think of for Black not wanting to become immortal is that it'd take away his zenkais; if you're immortal, you can't die, so the zenkai reflex doesn't kick in. But then again, Super hasn't referred to what Black is doing as a zenkai, and it doesn't work anything like how zenkais worked in the Frieza saga. In Super, just being beaten up is enough to make Black stronger--not getting close to death. (I think I remember hearing somewhere that, way back in the early Frieza saga, Vegeta said that Saiyans got stronger just by fighting, but all the zenkais he ever got was from getting almost killed.)
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 12, 2016 18:34:19 GMT
Point trying (and apparently failing) to get across is that Zamasu played it safe with the immortality thing so he could proceed with the Zero Mortal Plan. Black (being alternate timeline Zamasu) could've played it safe. Maybe he didn't think so at the time of the body swap but he got his ass whopped by Goku when he taunted about how he killed Goku's family. Sure he survived but anymore damage and he could've actually died. Now how can he execute the ZM plan? Think of it this way. He could still get boosts from near death AND get instant heal (apparently that comes with Immortality as shown with Zamasu...). If he was testing his body and it turned out to be weaker than his foes, then he has a contingency plan. If he's stronger, well then no need to invoke immortality because he can beat them, great for him. He'd benefit either way. Now back to Frieza's fallback plan in RoF. He had a ray gun ready to use in case it turned out he was weaker than Goku. Now ignoring how he actually managed to get Goku down, at least he had a contingency plan. If Black was in a similar situation, what would he do? Call Zamasu for help? If Zamasu is unconscious or occupied fighting someone else, then Black is officially screwed cuz he didn't bother to jump in time and prepare himself. The out-of-universe reason for Black not being immortal is that it'd make him broken and Zamasu redundant, but I hope there's an in-universe explanation, too, other than the cliche "Black doesn't think he needs it because he's so strong now." Super seems to be bringing back the concept of zenkai--that Saiyans get stronger when they almost die. So the only in-universe explanation I can think of for Black not wanting to become immortal is that it'd take away his zenkais; if you're immortal, you can't die, so the zenkai reflex doesn't kick in. But then again, Super hasn't referred to what Black is doing as a zenkai, and it doesn't work anything like how zenkais worked in the Frieza saga. In Super, just being beaten up is enough to make Black stronger--not getting close to death. (I think I remember hearing somewhere that, way back in the early Frieza saga, Vegeta said that Saiyans got stronger just by fighting, but all the zenkais he ever got was from getting almost killed.) Out-Universe: Epic foil and not broken. Nice. Black not needing it: that is indeed cliche. In-universe: "Near death experience" Oh crap... Immortal means you can't die. (Hold off the smart ass comments for a second) So then if Vegeta did manage to get immortality back on Earth or on Namek, he'd never get strong enough to take down Frieza, right?!? (assuming on Namek he made the wish and then Frieza showed up on time.) That would make so much more sense. He could never reach near death bc of immortality and how it takes away Zenkais reflexes. There we go @invader_Jim, that's probably why Black didn't want immortality.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 12, 2016 20:11:23 GMT
Out-Universe: Epic foil and not broken. Nice. Black not needing it: that is indeed cliche. In-universe: "Near death experience" Oh crap... Immortal means you can't die. (Hold off the smart ass comments for a second) So then if Vegeta did manage to get immortality back on Earth or on Namek, he'd never get strong enough to take down Frieza, right?!? (assuming on Namek he made the wish and then Frieza showed up on time.) That would make so much more sense. He could never reach near death bc of immortality and how it takes away Zenkais reflexes. There we go @invader_Jim, that's probably why Black didn't want immortality. But wait, wasn't Vegeta's plan to get immortality, let Frieza beat the ever living hell out of him, and eventually gain enough zenkais to become a Super Saiyan? (At the time he didn't know it was a transformation, but still.)I... huh. Gdamn it A.T., just give Black immortality and defeat him the same way with F.Zamasu. Okay we need to establish why Vegeta wanted immortality (which was what I tried to get to with Invader_jim) So Vegeta wanted immortality to be the strongest, and to overthrow Frieza by abusing Zenkais. Now if that's the case. Why doesn't Black do the same in case (Keywords: in case) he fights someone stronger than himself?
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Post by Jaquan on Oct 12, 2016 20:20:12 GMT
Well It may be due to his newfound Sayian's genetics. His desire to get stronger gets over his practical mindset. Plus didn't they kinda absolutely destroy Super DBs to make sure no one uses them against them?
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 12, 2016 20:50:56 GMT
Well It may be due to his newfound Sayian's genetics. His desire to get stronger gets over his practical mindset. Plus didn't they kinda absolutely destroy Super DBs to make sure no one uses them against them? Weird, never saw it that way. I always thought Zamasu has a new body he'd like to abuse, not the body rewriting Zamasu's mind. So yeah. They destroyed the Super DBs of the future. Nothing about destroying the present's balls... present's Super DBs. They could use that since "Any wish is possible"
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Post by Jaquan on Oct 13, 2016 4:09:06 GMT
Depends on how you look at Sayians desire to fight and getting stronger. For me it almost seems like it's less of a mental acquired trait and more of a some sort of almost physical need. Kinda like if you put vegetarian mind into carnivorous animal. Sooner or later mind will succumb to the physical needs of a body.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 13, 2016 4:16:23 GMT
Depends on how you look at Sayians desire to fight and getting stronger. For me it almost seems like it's less of a mental acquired trait and more of a some sort of almost physical need. Kinda like if you put vegetarian mind into carnivorous animal. Sooner or later mind will succumb to the physical needs of a body. The thing Vegeta bragged (on namek when he's dying) about Saiyan nature, bloodlust, etc, I figured he meant like the thoughts of a saiyan but physical need, that's a new perspective to think about.
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