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Post by Archon on Nov 1, 2016 21:37:48 GMT
Hopefully this one will stay open indefinitely because the page breaks if I try to set a huge amount of time before it locks (ie 4 years) Also Conqueror Geng or Ashanark please lock the old one so there isn't any confusion. EDIT: ok this will stay open indefinitely because it set the option to lock it to manual. As in I'd have to click the option to lock it. (And I don't plan to)
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Post by ltsarge on Nov 1, 2016 21:42:03 GMT
Is there a way to merge this thread and the previous one so we can keep the Poll active? If not, I'll just screen shot former poll for data reflective of it of the time.
Not that this is overly important, but I feel its mostly just people critical of Bra not flat out hating her.
So when I vote hate, its really just "hate" her current character. Like in the way I "love" zen buu or Raichi.
hate's a strong word, but it being used as metric to my current opinion of disliking her right now as a chacter.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Nov 1, 2016 21:45:43 GMT
I voted "Neutral but tired of her". In fact, I am not even that tired of her, but I found the constant praise of other characters to be unearned and truly annoying. This is what I'm getting tired of.
You want Bra to be perceived as awesome? Make her actually do awesome things. Not her in her regular jackass self, getting praises with no valid reason from other strong and more important characters.
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Post by Archon on Nov 1, 2016 21:53:06 GMT
Is there a way to merge this thread and the previous one so we can keep the Poll active? If not, I'll just screen shot former poll for data reflective of it of the time. Not that this is overly important, but I feel its mostly just people critical of Bra not flat out hating her. So when I vote hate, its really just "hate" her current character. Like in the way I "love" zen buu or Raichi. hate's a strong word, but it being used as metric to my current opinion of disliking her right now as a chacter. Hate is used as an easy to grasp way of saying "I have a negative reaction to this character" without being unnecessarily pedantic or overly convoluted. It's like saying East or west when something is northeast or south west. It still conveys the idea well enough. Even then if people feel they need to explain in detail they can in post Also I don't think we'd be able to merge the two without something fucking up the polls. I'd rather people just revote anyways. Especially since their opinions may have changed since then and this poll has options the other one did not since it takes into account just being tired of the character
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Post by ltsarge on Nov 1, 2016 22:12:00 GMT
I know the context you used hate was to be a metric, as I explained above. It wasn't meant to be a jab at you.
I just wanted to explain for anyone who might say "OMG, she's a fictional character how can you HATE her." Its not like I HATE her, i just dislike the character and her presentation. In my opinion she's currently a blight on an overall fantastic comic that has been a better sequel to DBZ than its official to continuations, DBGT and DBS. Bra is not enough to sink DBM, not yet anyway, but I still dislike her character. I feel her handling has been poor, and unfortunately she's a main character, so we HAVE to see her more often than other characters with far less screen time. So until she improves, or maybe she never will, I'll just continue to hate her.
So I clarified, preemptively mind you, why I chose to vote that way.
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Post by ltsarge on Nov 1, 2016 22:18:31 GMT
So just going to post this here, in case it gets lost in the thread being moved down. That reflects the polls roughly around the end of August, so more than 2 months ago. I think the current poll will be more negatively affected, but I could be wrong. However, I think as time passes and Bra improves, some people might vote more positively. I could be swayed to neutral if enough right steps were taken. (addressing her problems in story/ cease praising her over and over). I do think however you will find that more people will just say they dislike or are tired of her, than there will be people that say she's a Mary Sue, since that carries with it a bit of a stronger connotation.
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Post by Azoth on Nov 1, 2016 22:27:31 GMT
I am so tired of Bra and the shit surrounding her. Debates over her go nowhere, as both sides are pretty thoroughly entrenched in their viewpoint. Let's just get through whatever's left between her and Cold so we can see Gast v. Raichi. Maybe when the next Bra v. whoever fight comes up, we can maybe be a bit more chill. Oh who am I kidding, this is going to happen whenever Bra shows up.
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Post by Archon on Nov 1, 2016 22:31:56 GMT
I know the context you used hate was to be a metric, as I explained above. It wasn't meant to be a jab at you. I just wanted to explain for anyone who might say "OMG, she's a fictional character how can you HATE her." Its not like I HATE her, i just dislike the character and her presentation. In my opinion she's currently a blight on an overall fantastic comic that has been a better sequel to DBZ than its official to continuations, DBGT and DBS. Bra is not enough to sink DBM, not yet anyway, but I still dislike her character. I feel her handling has been poor, and unfortunately she's a main character, so we HAVE to see her more often than other characters with far less screen time. So until she improves, or maybe she never will, I'll just continue to hate her. So I clarified, preemptively mind you, why I chose to vote that way. Ok I see what you mean.
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Post by The Masterman on Nov 1, 2016 22:36:21 GMT
Saw the "love her but tired of her" option and had to change my vote.
I like her, she's been interesting so far and at first reading the comments section blow up over her was fun but now I read through the comments section and I have to check to make sure I didn't have a stroke.
All in all I hope we get more of her with less praise from DBZ characters and get to see the character development she needs to sway the haters to her side
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Post by Archon on Nov 1, 2016 22:42:00 GMT
Saw the "love her but tired of her" option and had to change my vote. I like her, she's been interesting so far and at first reading the comments section blow up over her was fun but now I read through the comments section and I have to check to make sure I didn't have a stroke. All in all I hope we get more of her with less praise from DBZ characters and get to see the character development she needs to sway the haters to her side The tired of her means tired of her being shown on the comic not tired of seeing her because of the reaction in the comments lmao
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Post by The Masterman on Nov 1, 2016 22:47:27 GMT
Saw the "love her but tired of her" option and had to change my vote. I like her, she's been interesting so far and at first reading the comments section blow up over her was fun but now I read through the comments section and I have to check to make sure I didn't have a stroke. All in all I hope we get more of her with less praise from DBZ characters and get to see the character development she needs to sway the haters to her side The tired of her means tired of her being shown on the comic not tired of seeing her because of the reaction in the comments lmao Ok... Point still stands though!
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Post by Kaio del Norte on Nov 1, 2016 23:32:41 GMT
You could add the option 'Neutral, not tired of her, rather tired of all the fuss about her'.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Nov 1, 2016 23:57:52 GMT
To me, the issue was never about Bra. It was always about the writing surrounding her. I was sick of it when Vegeta went ssj3. I was sick of it when Cold went to a sixth form. I am sick of it with Bra. The only difference between Bra and the other moments in DBM is that Bra's moments are long lasting. We get constant, back to back, moments of out the wazoo events happening just for Bra. Not only that, but we get specials centered around her character that come at a horrible time. And, to top it all off, we get mini comics mocking the nay-sayers. Bra seems to be the catalyst of everything that's wrong with DBM. Don't get me wrong, there are more things right than there are wrong with this series, but the things that are wrong can sometimes hit hard, and the problems that surround Bra hit the hardest. I do not hate her as a character, but I hate everything the story has done for her.
Unlike others, I don't think Bra needs a slice of humble pie. I think reality simply needs to stop warping itself around her.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Nov 2, 2016 0:10:36 GMT
To me, the issue was never about Bra. It was always about the writing surrounding her. I was sick of it when Vegeta went ssj3. I was sick of it when Cold went to a sixth form. I am sick of it with Bra. The only difference between Bra and the other moments in DBM is that Bra's moments are long lasting. We get constant, back to back, moments of out the wazoo events happening just for Bra. Not only that, but we get specials centered around her character that come at a horrible time. And, to top it all off, we get mini comics mocking the nay-sayers. Bra seems to be the catalyst of everything that's wrong with DBM. Don't get me wrong, there are more things right than there are wrong with this series, but the things that are wrong can sometimes hit hard, and the problems that surround Bra hit the hardest. I do not hate her as a character, but I hate everything the story has done for her. Unlike others, I don't think Bra needs a slice of humble pie. I think reality simply needs to stop warping itself around her.This is the big problem, and unlike some people mocking might think, it's not about "Bra Haters". This was never so obviously called to my attention until the last page, where we see (out of all people in the whole tournament!) Goku drooling and complimenting her abilities and techniques to win (despite he already said the morally didn't agree with the course of action indirectly: 'I would have given one to Cold too1) and Zen Buu, who had not commented a single battle (where he did not participate) since he got imprisoned, finally thought this endless trainweck the right worthy thing to compliment. Not sure if he was referring to the scythe (which he is immune to) or the after image goo (he had already manipulated KI in a far more advanced way, making KI ghosts attacks fire 2 other different KI attacks: Kamehameha and Masenko). After all, it doesn't really matter. It makes no sense he would comment this and not any of the other previous battles. Like other poster said, more than being a Mary Sue, this is direct Character Shilling. This is very bad. Haters more often than not complain for the wrong reasons, and just seem like whiny kids. It's when Character Shilling gets out of control, that in order to make a character feel great, you have to make others appear uncharacteristically dumb, that normal, regular fans start getting upset too. Seriously dude, no matter what one might think, but attempting to make Bra look awesome (and miserably failing to accomplish so) at the expense of making Zen Buu and Goku seem like complete retards is simply not worth it. It becomes too much to lose, and so little to win. Mostly because it truly makes Zen Buu and Goku look like retards, while it doesn't make Bra look more "awesome" in the slightest. This is simply a bad outcome no matter how you see it. Case in proof: around 82% of the people (regardless of whether they liked, hated, or just didn't care about her) are already quite tired. I guess we may be overreacting to this extent because we already expected the Bra-marathon to be over once we got back to the tournament. But man, this last blast felt worse than even all the previous combined (which there were already a few). And, judging from the preview, we may see a couple more smug pages of her (and likely, more people appearing like retards in order to praise her).
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Post by opiomorph on Nov 2, 2016 3:46:43 GMT
Hopefully this one will stay open indefinitely because the page breaks if I try to set a huge amount of time before it locks (ie 4 years) Also Conqueror Geng or Ashanark please lock the old one so there isn't any confusion. EDIT: ok this will stay open indefinitely because it set the option to lock it to manual. As in I'd have to click the option to lock it. (And I don't plan to) You should add a 'Dislike Her' box. There are plenty people who are negative towards her, but not to the point of rabid hatred. In the previous poll I voted 'Neutral' for that reason, and I'm sure I wasn't alone - I feel it skews the result somewhat
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Post by mbg on Nov 2, 2016 3:55:55 GMT
Hopefully this one will stay open indefinitely because the page breaks if I try to set a huge amount of time before it locks (ie 4 years) Also Conqueror Geng or Ashanark please lock the old one so there isn't any confusion. EDIT: ok this will stay open indefinitely because it set the option to lock it to manual. As in I'd have to click the option to lock it. (And I don't plan to) You should add a 'Dislike Her' box. There are plenty people who are negative towards her, but not to the point of rabid hatred. In the previous poll I voted 'Neutral' for that reason, and I'm sure I wasn't alone - I feel it skews the result somewhat Honestly, I feel like just making the "Hate" option "Dislike" would do just fine.
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Post by ltsarge on Nov 2, 2016 4:10:35 GMT
Honestly, I feel like just making the "Hate" option "Dislike" would do just fine. Yes, the word "neutral" is more appealing to those that simply "dislike" her character, rather than flat out "hate" her, which is associated with people making unintelligible "rape her" comments and such.
Archon this is why I clarified on me saying i voted hate, because the implication associated with that word
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Post by Archon on Nov 2, 2016 4:56:51 GMT
I am unable to edit the poll itself right now. If I were to change something everyone would need to revote because it'd be removed and readded. Do we really want to do that? Cause I will if people honestly think it's important to have the dislike/like options.
EDIT: fuck it I'll bite the bullet and remake it.
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Post by Ashanark on Nov 2, 2016 5:12:49 GMT
I said "Like her, but tired of her." Let me explain.
When I first found DBM in 2011, I didn't like Bra at all. However, after five years of thinking about this, I'd changed my mind and decided that Bra is made of a few promising and well-meaning concepts, and I like those. Dragon Ball has always been dominated by male characters, so I like the idea of a relevant female character. I like the idea of a female OC who is not the model of goodness and actually has problems. I like the idea of a female OC who has no romantic side to her whatsoever (*coughFutureMaicough*). I like the idea of a morally grey "good guy," because it allows U18 to be U18. (Dragon Ball has always relied on the existence of anti-heroes to complement Goku's goodness: first Yamcha, then Tien, then Piccolo, then Vegeta.) I like the idea of a seemingly stronger good guy that ends up failing against the bad guy so the heroes can step in (see Master Roshi and Kami). Quite honestly, I think Salagir's taken a very unique approach for a DB fanfic when it comes to his main female character, and I applaud him for that.
However, at this moment I'm tired. Any character in excess, even Goku or Vegeta, gets annoying. I want to get past Bra and on to other things. I'm also tired of constantly seeing debates rage back and forth about her; I just don't want to see it anymore.
Most of all, I'm tired of not knowing what Salagir plans for the character. At this point I'd like to sit down with him and ask a few questions to really get a feel for what his intentions are and what's coming down the road. What does he plan on doing with her to develop her character? Does she ever lose, or get humbled? Is she going to end up being crucial to defeating the villain? I mean, I'd like to think she's a Hate Sink calculated to get us to root for U18 and suffer a horrible beatdown to hype up the villain, but I'm not sure, and I'm tired of not knowing. If I had a better idea of what Salagir's intending, I feel I'd know better if he's succeeding at it or not.
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