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Post by Eldagusto on Dec 30, 2016 5:25:40 GMT
Seriously If the Saiyans of Universe 13 are the Princes of the Universe, and they are all pushin Fifty, with Nappy Probably closer to 100 then 50... Shouldn't they have a ton of children? I mean Kaks loves to breed... why don't we have mention of Offspring? Are they specifically trying to not restart the Saiyan species? What happens to their Empire when they die?
Its like Universe Emperors are doomed to avoid having kids?
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 30, 2016 5:48:52 GMT
I imagine Vegeta killing any of Kakarot's bastards out of paranoia of them becoming too strong to handle them. Vegeta had similar fears in the main universe as well. Nappa suggested they breed with human women to make a new Saiyan race after learning how powerful of hybrid Gohan was from listening to the battle Raditz had with Goku and Piccolo. Vegeta shut the idea down because he thought the kids might get stronger than them and kill them.
U13 Vegeta would probably have a fear of that even more, since he was a kid who grew up and killed his master when he got enough power to do so. It might be an issue they are broaching now, if they want the empire to continue, but I figured Vegeta's grand plan was win the tournament, wish for immortality and rule the universe for eternity and kill the other three, since he no longer need them.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 30, 2016 7:54:56 GMT
I think once all the storm settles on U13 and they part ways, Raditz is going to get Kakarotto a wife/side girl so he can stay relaxed without having to use excessive force on him.  On a more serious note: For out-universe reasons, it is to avoid having multiple half-saiyan OC's (and possibly very OP: if Gohan was so strong being half a measly human, imagine the combinations between saiyans + stronger races) sullying the light and already limited screentime of the "classic full saiyans". |
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Post by Eldagusto on Dec 30, 2016 10:10:56 GMT
Yeah I understand the meta reasons, they didn't want to dilute the comic with more characters that people would criticize as Fan/OCs. Though I like to think Kakarotto and Nappa have sired bastards that they probably don't know about. While I'll bet Vegeta didn't spend a fraction of the time with carnal pursuits. And Raditz just never had time to find a wife I guess. Raditz and Nappa are way more practical then the other two.
I wonder what they hell they have been doing for the last decade or so. Like maybe they spent a decade or two fighting space Wars genociding the Frost Demons, and Broly. But after that... They must feel unfulfilled.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 30, 2016 10:15:19 GMT
Yeah I understand the meta reasons, they didn't want to dilute the comic with more characters that people would criticize as Fan/OCs. Though I like to think Kakarotto and Nappa have sired bastards that they probably don't know about. While I'll bet Vegeta didn't spend a fraction of the time with carnal pursuits. And Raditz just never had time to find a wife I guess. Raditz and Nappa are way more practical then the other two. I wonder what they hell they have been doing for the last decade or so. Like maybe they spent a decade or two fighting space Wars genociding the Frost Demons, and Broly. But after that... They must feel unfulfilled. It certainly wouldn't be out of character. However, I have a far more twisted and gory answer to that question: They kill everything they fuck. So no unwanted pregnancies. This wouldn't be out of character with Kakarotto either. |
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Post by Eldagusto on Dec 30, 2016 10:19:11 GMT
Yeah... I actually think that is the case... they were raised in a culture that views the weak as nonpeople. So normally Saiyans view other saiyans as people, with family connections viewed as enlightened self interest to keep with your family. And Vegeta having even more extreme views since he grew up an orphan he seems to viewed everyone as disposable.
So yeah they do seem rather rapey and murdery...
Disturbing...
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Post by Symbiotic on Dec 30, 2016 12:15:04 GMT
I was going to weigh in, make a Kakarot x Kat joke, but ya'll nailed it.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Dec 30, 2016 19:16:03 GMT
Did someone call the real Kakarot? Oh crap baskets I forgot the implied (r)ape-shit he did...  Okay legit discussion time: I agree with Genghis: Salagir would have too many explanations to make as to who has a kid, who doesn't, what their names are or aren't. It just seems easier to state that the four surviving Saiyans (cough where's Broly cough) only have rebellion and Galactic conquest in their minds. (And getting stronger, blah blah blah) With no Gohan as the first Saiyan-Human Hybrid, nobody would've known about the immense abilities of a "half-breed," thus no need to sully their pure blood to preserve the Saiyan race's existence. (Whether Vegeta is content with ruling over 3 pure bloods instead of, say, hundreds of half-lings that's a different story.) Side note: I do like how U13 Vegeta is the Saiyan Saga Vegeta, seeing himself as empty in life, no family, no peace of mind as opposed to his U18 counterpart. |
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Post by Ashanark on Dec 30, 2016 20:12:30 GMT
Yeah I understand the meta reasons, they didn't want to dilute the comic with more characters that people would criticize as Fan/OCs. Though I like to think Kakarotto and Nappa have sired bastards that they probably don't know about. While I'll bet Vegeta didn't spend a fraction of the time with carnal pursuits. And Raditz just never had time to find a wife I guess. Raditz and Nappa are way more practical then the other two. I wonder what they hell they have been doing for the last decade or so. Like maybe they spent a decade or two fighting space Wars genociding the Frost Demons, and Broly. But after that... They must feel unfulfilled. However, I have a far more twisted and gory answer to that question: They kill everything they fuck. So no unwanted pregnancies. This wouldn't be out of character with Kakarotto either.  The Retro KakarottoExcellent point. No Gohan, no knowledge that half-breeds are super strong. I'd like to think that only human/Saiyan hybrids get the crazy potential, though, and not Saiyan/other races. Humans need something going for them in DBZ. |
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 31, 2016 0:28:38 GMT
I'm actually pretty surprised that there isn't a single universe where planet Vegeta wasn't destroyed. Aside from that, I would guess that the main reason is because there are no pure-blooded female Saiyans alive, and even if there were, there still wouldn't be enough males to repopulate an entire species. I can't see a race like the Saiyans considering a new subspecies worthy of being considered the replacement for Saiyans. In their minds, since half-breeds would be their only chance at repopulation, it would probably be seen as a disgusting pollution of their race to repopulate with human females.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 31, 2016 3:44:55 GMT
I'm actually pretty surprised that there isn't a single universe where planet Vegeta wasn't destroyed. Aside from that, I would guess that the main reason is because there are no pure-blooded female Saiyans alive, and even if there were, there still wouldn't be enough males to repopulate an entire species. I can't see a race like the Saiyans considering a new subspecies worthy of being considered the replacement for Saiyans. In their minds, since half-breeds would be their only chance at repopulation, it would probably be seen as a disgusting pollution of their race to repopulate with human females. There are 2 (or three) universes where Planet Vegeta survived for far longer: U3 (Likely still existed until the Raichi wars). U10 (Until when Raichi hijacked their universe and nuked their planet) U1 (They must still exist there: No Freeza) |
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 31, 2016 21:25:53 GMT
I'm actually pretty surprised that there isn't a single universe where planet Vegeta wasn't destroyed. Aside from that, I would guess that the main reason is because there are no pure-blooded female Saiyans alive, and even if there were, there still wouldn't be enough males to repopulate an entire species. I can't see a race like the Saiyans considering a new subspecies worthy of being considered the replacement for Saiyans. In their minds, since half-breeds would be their only chance at repopulation, it would probably be seen as a disgusting pollution of their race to repopulate with human females. There are 2 (or three) universes where Planet Vegeta survived for far longer: U3 (Likely still existed until the Raichi wars). U10 (Until when Raichi hijacked their universe and nuked their planet) U1 (They must still exist there: No Freeza) Yeah I looked into that and found out about U10 still having Saiyans. The idea of them never having accessed technology was interesting. The whole multiverse platform in DBM really solves a lot of issues with endangered species, though. I mean if U13 Saiyans were willing to work with U10 so that they could emigrate females and some males into their universe to repopulate with, they could easily restore the Saiyan race given some time. Same for Gast, he could ask some Namekians from the other universes to help him rebuild his race. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 31, 2016 22:36:16 GMT
U3 is the only place where Saiyans truly thrived and prospered: 3 Super Saiyans (same number as early/mid Cell Saga, more than U13), a good number of non-Super Saiyans who like still would be strong enough, a whole other planet of low-classes that don't amount to anything but still are 10 of times stronger than the average inhabitant of any planet, have good technology (at a more equalitarian rate than earth: on DB earth you see super androids, genetically engineered creatures, capsules, gravity chambers but also people living in Castles, no electricity, isolated villages, etc), managed to prevent their destruction (coup against Freeza), then killed both his brother and his father while simultaneously expanding into the universe.
Of course, such violent joy and fun had to come to a tragic end: Raichi's attack. For these reasons this is one of my favorite universes.
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Post by The Masterman on Dec 31, 2016 22:47:13 GMT
Man I'm writing a db fic and I was just thinking: should I have the Saiyan homeworld survive?
I didn't even hesitate to think hell no, kill am all~
Man Saiyans can't catch a break, though in many cases that's a good thing.
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Post by Teh Jammah on Jan 1, 2017 2:40:37 GMT
U3 is the only place where Saiyans truly thrived and prospered: 3 Super Saiyans (same number as early/mid Cell Saga, more than U13) TBH I'm half convinced that the only one who went SSJ pre-Raichi's genocide was Broly. just 'cuz he Broly and had a headstart on everyone (I don't think he has LSSJ though, think he died without awakening it - possibly even by double-kill wih Cooler/Cold) Backstory dependant, but I see U3 Vegeta having gotten his SSJ boost posthumously (ala U3 Freeza's 5th Form). He was probably on the cusp of getting it when killed (presumably having trained to usurp Bardock? The Cape-Armour his ghost wears makes it seem like he did that. Although the interesting thing about the U3 Ghost Saiyans is that some wear the old armour (Ghost King Vegeta, Gherkin, etc) and soem wear the 'Bardock Armour' (intriguingly including Ghost Vegeta), which makes me think there was a civil war... with Vegeta eithe ron or defecting to Bardock's side). Bardock I assume went SSJ from grief at having his whole race massacred. This is admittedly only headcanon (seriously, we NEED that U3 special), but it makes sense. To me anyhow, YMMV. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 3:02:33 GMT
They kill everything they fuck. And not necessarily in that order.  |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jan 1, 2017 3:25:37 GMT
U3 is the only place where Saiyans truly thrived and prospered: 3 Super Saiyans (same number as early/mid Cell Saga, more than U13) TBH I'm half convinced that the only one who went SSJ pre-Raichi's genocide was Broly. just 'cuz he Broly and had a headstart on everyone (I don't think he has LSSJ though, think he died without awakening it - possibly even by double-kill wih Cooler/Cold) Backstory dependant, but I see U3 Vegeta having gotten his SSJ boost posthumously (ala U3 Freeza's 5th Form). He was probably on the cusp of getting it when killed (presumably having trained to usurp Bardock? The Cape-Armour his ghost wears makes it seem like he did that. Although the interesting thing about the U3 Ghost Saiyans is that some wear the old armour (Ghost King Vegeta, Gherkin, etc) and soem wear the 'Bardock Armour' (intriguingly including Ghost Vegeta), which makes me think there was a civil war... with Vegeta eithe ron or defecting to Bardock's side). Bardock I assume went SSJ from grief at having his whole race massacred. This is admittedly only headcanon (seriously, we NEED that U3 special), but it makes sense. To me anyhow, YMMV. I agree but I'm not so sure about Vegeta. The civil war stuff (perhaps even a couple of them?) is very likely to have happened. But I don't think he can boost super saiyans like that. Having him Freezer go 5th form was never fully explained. He didn't have Pan transform into SSJ2 (I'm not sure if you agree but I think she is near FPSSJ level) or Zangya transform into her "green form" like Bojack. I completely agree with the Bardock part too anyway. There were enough events that truly needed SSJ transformations though. Maybe Kid Broly defeated Cooler? Saiyans only stood a chance with Freeza because he didn't transform. But Cooler is always in his 4th form and arguably stronger than Freeza. If Cooler quickly decided to retaliate, they sure needed a SSJ to face it. This isn't even taking into account Cold which should be far stronger. Perhaps Teen Broly dealt with it? Or it could have been Vegeta? |
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Post by Teh Jammah on Jan 1, 2017 3:43:03 GMT
TBH I'm half convinced that the only one who went SSJ pre-Raichi's genocide was Broly. just 'cuz he Broly and had a headstart on everyone (I don't think he has LSSJ though, think he died without awakening it - possibly even by double-kill wih Cooler/Cold) Backstory dependant, but I see U3 Vegeta having gotten his SSJ boost posthumously (ala U3 Freeza's 5th Form). He was probably on the cusp of getting it when killed (presumably having trained to usurp Bardock? The Cape-Armour his ghost wears makes it seem like he did that. Although the interesting thing about the U3 Ghost Saiyans is that some wear the old armour (Ghost King Vegeta, Gherkin, etc) and soem wear the 'Bardock Armour' (intriguingly including Ghost Vegeta), which makes me think there was a civil war... with Vegeta eithe ron or defecting to Bardock's side). Bardock I assume went SSJ from grief at having his whole race massacred. This is admittedly only headcanon (seriously, we NEED that U3 special), but it makes sense. To me anyhow, YMMV. I agree but I'm not so sure about Vegeta. The civil war stuff (perhaps even a couple of them?) is very likely to have happened. But I don't think he can boost super saiyans like that. Having him Freezer go 5th form was never fully explained. He didn't have Pan transform into SSJ2 (I'm not sure if you agree but I think she is near FPSSJ level) or Zangya transform into her "green form" like Bojack. I completely agree with the Bardock part too anyway. There were enough events that truly needed SSJ transformations though. Maybe Kid Broly defeated Cooler? Saiyans only stood a chance with Freeza because he didn't transform. But Cooler is always in his 4th form and arguably stronger than Freeza. If Cooler quickly decided to retaliate, they sure needed a SSJ to face it. This isn't even taking into account Cold which should be far stronger. Perhaps Teen Broly dealt with it? Or it could have been Vegeta? Well, My take on how Hatchiyak works (vis-a-vis transformations like SSJ) is that a) The Ghost in question has the potential to reach that level and, most importantly b) It has witnessed (I.e. been close enough to collect their 'hate' energy) someone die with that form So I think he got his SSJ data from Broly (who - in my headcannon, killed Cooler and either double-killed Cold or killed Cold and was then killed by Ghost-Hanasia (since IIRC she killed most of U3's Saiyans? Sure I read that somewhere. I know she's Raichi's favourite) - edit]While he was recoveringWhy no SSJ2's? Because he hadn't killed or withessed the deaths of any any SSJ2s. Cell Junior? Doesn't count. Yeah it went 'SSJ2'... but it's genetics are so weird that it would be a separate organism. I mean it's a mix of Saiyan, Human, Frost Demon & Namek DNA. I'm pretty sure (Gast vs Raichi proving me wrong depending) it woukd count the Cell Jr as a whole new life form, rather than a 'Saiyan' type. so my thoughts are: Broly died as a standard SSJ (w/o unlocking DBM's BS LSSJ) - by killing Cold Vegeta rose up and bested Bardock (via being close to SSJ level power) Bardock (went SSJ after being beaten by Vegeta and seeing his race die - 'cuz' 'Geets don't give a shit about your visions) as I said, my headcannon. If he re-summons Broly/U3 Vegeta as SSJ2s or SSJ3s/summons ALL the Saiyans as SSJs/wahatever, will acknowledge am wrong. Just going off of what I've seen & my thoughts from that |
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 1, 2017 4:00:10 GMT
TBH I'm half convinced that the only one who went SSJ pre-Raichi's genocide was Broly. just 'cuz he Broly and had a headstart on everyone (I don't think he has LSSJ though, think he died without awakening it - possibly even by double-kill wih Cooler/Cold) Backstory dependant, but I see U3 Vegeta having gotten his SSJ boost posthumously (ala U3 Freeza's 5th Form). He was probably on the cusp of getting it when killed (presumably having trained to usurp Bardock? The Cape-Armour his ghost wears makes it seem like he did that. Although the interesting thing about the U3 Ghost Saiyans is that some wear the old armour (Ghost King Vegeta, Gherkin, etc) and soem wear the 'Bardock Armour' (intriguingly including Ghost Vegeta), which makes me think there was a civil war... with Vegeta eithe ron or defecting to Bardock's side). Bardock I assume went SSJ from grief at having his whole race massacred. This is admittedly only headcanon (seriously, we NEED that U3 special), but it makes sense. To me anyhow, YMMV. I agree but I'm not so sure about Vegeta. The civil war stuff (perhaps even a couple of them?) is very likely to have happened. But I don't think he can boost super saiyans like that. Having him Freezer go 5th form was never fully explained. He didn't have Pan transform into SSJ2 (I'm not sure if you agree but I think she is near FPSSJ level) or Zangya transform into her "green form" like Bojack. I completely agree with the Bardock part too anyway. There were enough events that truly needed SSJ transformations though. Maybe Kid Broly defeated Cooler? Saiyans only stood a chance with Freeza because he didn't transform. But Cooler is always in his 4th form and arguably stronger than Freeza. If Cooler quickly decided to retaliate, they sure needed a SSJ to face it. This isn't even taking into account Cold which should be far stronger. Perhaps Teen Broly dealt with it? Or it could have been Vegeta? I agree with Teh Jammah that Raichi's ability to unlock new forms depends on the potential of the ghost. If all that is preventing the transformation is some kind of mental trigger, he can unlock the transformation. If what is required is an increase of power--something normally gained through training--then he can't unlock a new form. This is why only Vegeta and Broly can go Super Saiyan of Raichi's ghosts, and why neither Pan or Zangya could access higher forms. Frieza, who has probably never put himself under the mental stress Cooler has but is still naturally talented, could presumably unlock 5th form if he had the push. Since Raichi controls his ghost, he can use a "cheat code" to give Frieza that push and unlock the form. Possibly Cooler could get a 6th form from Raichi, but I don't think any of his other ghosts could unlock a higher transformation than the ones they've got. I agree that Bardock's Super Saiyan was probably brought about by the U3 Saiyans' extinction. Vegeta's royal attire implies he was king, even for a little while, and without Bardock's visions the Saiyans would have been easy prey for Raichi. I like your observation that U3 is the prime example of a "successful Saiyans" universe. Turns out Frieza's fears about them were completely justified. I also agree with Teh_Jammah that Broly probably died without going Legendary Saiyan, since although he's an adult, he's pretty darn weak compared to the U18/U20 versions and I doubt Raichi or Cold would've been able to kill him if he'd transformed. |
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