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Post by Namikaze on May 16, 2017 6:48:23 GMT
Much like in any fiction, there's always been the concept of a Master. The one individual that is simply above or much wiser than our protagonist to learn from. Whether you think of Jedi from Star Wars or perhaps something more grounded like a school teacher. In any case, our main character, Goku, has surely had several of them to learn from throughout his life. Please note: This ISN'T ABOUT popularity; rather more about what makes the specific Master your favorite based on the categories below. The categories will be based on the following:Personality/Character Design: How did they essentially grip you into their character? Effectiveness: How effective was their training in relation to the problem Goku faced or perhaps in the long-haul?
The [Long-term] Impact on the Character (Goku): What impact did they have on Goku as a character? How prominent are they to him?
My answer (for all three obviously): King Kai First: This guy's bubbling personality and chemistry with Goku are always a delight, in my opinion. In the Saiyan Saga, I initially expected the person to help Goku to be a rather stern and serious old hermit (no pun intended), but to see a smaller, blue creature with "70's dude" glasses got me intrigued by what he had to offer. I mean here was his house: 10X gravity; something our protagonist struggled to perform in, but here he was crusin' around like it was nothing! This, in turn, got me invested into what he had to offer Goku since he then later revealed that the incoming threat was in fact stronger than him- making Goku's entire situation seem even more grim in return. Second: Perhaps the weakest of the three, but I'd say it holds up. King Kai's techniques like the Kaioken or The Spirit Bomb are still utilized by Goku today; whether you look at the Universal Spirit Bomb in the Buu saga, or the Kaioken being implemented with the Blue form in Super (yes, yes anime continuity). His techniques in some form or another have stood the test of time. Even in the Saiyan Saga they helped significantly with Goku's fight against Vegeta. Third: I personally think Goku highly values and respects King Kai; seeing how he's been a real bud to him in his toughest spots, which I think impacts Goku a lot. His friends, family, and future are all alive thanks to King Kai. In fact, they're so tight that Goku still bothers to visit or train in his home even though he's far above all that. He even promises to revive him again because they're such pals at this point than any Master & Student should be.
Phew! *cracks fingers* well, that was a bunch of button mashing. In the meantime, feel free to express your thoughts on all of this. I know you're about as tired of reading as I am typing right now.  |
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on May 16, 2017 7:20:22 GMT
I'll do a deconstruction (at least imo) of why the others wouldn't be Goku's best master. (Not ordered by favorite in decreasing order, reverse order bc I remember Super and Z but not DB  ) [Gonna focus less on the designs bc in my mind, if they were all created at the "same time" then the designs would appear similar or something. With Popo and Whis, and the real life time, surely there will be a difference.] Whis: Sure he helped Goku and Vegeta obtain the SSB form and helped them prepare for threats like Frieza, U6 tourney and their half-assed efforts to stop Black and Zamasu. And although the angel is flamboyant to the point we thought he was another Zarbon, the Sassy bitch just said "nah I don't wanna help fight Black, you guys deal with it." Sure we can say Whis didn't want to help because he'd end up helping someone who fucked up time (Trunks) but in the end he was a bit of a hypocrite to go and make a new timeline for Trunks bc he didn't want his hands caught with a person from the wrong timeline. King Kai: (FAVORITE) He literally helped the series progress with the Kaioken, the Spirit Bomb, gravity training, and a location for Goku to drop off Cell. (Doesn't that make it all of Z?) As you've said Namikaze, the fact that Goku still visits King Kai, almost disrespects him (English Dub of Super had King Kai say "If Kami was around, you wouldn't speak to him this way") and although he doesn't remember to do this often, he at least attempts to bring King Kai back as a sorry for the Cell incident. (Even the filler in Super counts as good intentions) (People are gonna call me out on this one) His cheesy jokes and sometimes stern nature is what I like the most, the fact that he always tries to make jokes out of things even if they weren't funny, but when the moment arises he has to tell his joking side to stfu and look out for the mortals of his quadrant. Oh boy I might get Senzu beans thrown at me if I attempt to do the DB masters.I can't justify Kami, Korin, Roshi or Gramps Gohan but I'll take a shot at Popo (not for the TFS reason) Popo designwise is alright to me but thanks to censorship along with Jynx, his change to Royal blue was just stupid. Dunno about his relationship to Popo but his teaching about sensing his opponent without his eyes was definitely a major factor to the series and the ones to come. Last one I can do for now is the Yardrats and I'll be basing them off of the Z design, not the new bubble heads that got weird ass eyes. They took a total stranger in their (remote?) planet. Their humanoid form yet different physique sets them apart as the guys you'd probably wouldn't wanna mess with. Although we got short screen time of them, they were interesting to see observing the exhausted Saiyan fall from their city's skyscrapper in a giant pod. The IT technique saved a lot of time for AT Goku trying to get rid of Cell and a way to actually kill off Goku as a hero's sacrifice. -Now if we go with the Heart Virus theory "Goku got it from the Yardrats!!!" then we can say it makes sense for them to be a bit distrustful of the foreigner yet they trusted him long enough for the technique. Oddly if they were trying to kill him with the virus, Goku could still have enough time to teach someone the technique if he wanted to, thus spilling the secret of the Yardrats as Vegeta puts it. Otherwise they're a bunch of nice guys willing to help a total stranger... wait isn't that like Grandpa Gohan? Taking in a monkey boy? |
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Post by Ashanark on May 16, 2017 17:10:43 GMT
In overall long-term influence, Grandpa Gohan. He's responsible for just about every moral Goku has. The head-bump made sure Goku wasn't bad, but Gohan made Goku good. (Also gave him his first martial arts education.)
Goku and Kami had three straight years together, separated from everyone else, so I think there's a level of closeness with Kami that Goku never got with Roshi or King Kai. Too bad this never gets seen or elaborated on. Also, I don't think Goku's ever been humbled by a master as much as by Kami. Fresh from beating Piccolo, who was miles away the most powerful being on Earth--after he'd gotten a BS powerup to do it--Goku was effortlessly trounced by Popo, who was no match for Kami. That's a pretty strong humbling. Even Beerus didn't show up the day after Buu was defeated, and Goku could at least land hits on him after another BS powerup.
In overall importance, King Kai. His techniques ensured Goku survived three different sagas, and his ability to communicate telepathically over unlimited distances has kept him relevant throughout the series. He's the only mentor Goku still goes to for advice and help.
Beerus and Whis both do a good job, but I don't count them because they're teaching lessons Goku already learned. They can only mentor Goku because he's forgotten everything for plot reasons.
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Post by Xeno Black on May 16, 2017 19:05:27 GMT
I'll say Master Roshi since he has been there for Goku throughout his entire journey in life basically. Roshi not only taught him the foundations of true martial arts, but also instilled in Goku that there will always be someone stronger than him and must never become complacent at his current level (though Goku unfortunately does forget this lesson time from time) since arrogance can become a man's greatest weakness. Plus he taught Goku his signature technique; the kamehameha. Can you honestly see Goku without this beauty underneath his belt? Plus he also taught Grandpa Gohan the Jan Ken Fist, which was Goku's original signature technique. He even gave Goku the nimbus cloud which greatly assisted the saiyan throughout most of the original Dragon Ball while being a motivator for Goku's vengeance against King Piccolo. And thanks to his status for being a martial artist master, he became the catalyst for making Goku meeting Krillin, his future rival and best friend. Without this meetup, perhaps Goku would have never became a super saiyan if the namek saga somehow played out exactly as it did in the manga. Plus Roshi has great connections since he trained underneath Korin and trained Grandpa Gohan who all had a great impact on Goku's life too. He was also the one to advise Goku to see his sister, Fortuneteller Baba, to find the last Dragon Ball which made him the indirect cause for Goku to get some closure from the late Grandpa Gohan. In Super Roshi also taught Goku the mafuba which allows the saiyan to defeat near-invincible foes in a powerful sealing spell. This technique can even be viewed as a power superior to the kaioken or the spirit bomb since it can defeat immortals or supremely powerful foes with finesse. Plus despite his advanced age he still contributes to the z team since he has fought against the likes of Dr. Wheelo, Meta-Cooler, Broly (in a way), Beerus (the hype man commander), and Frieza. No other mentor has participated in these many battles alongside Goku in the front lines though the likes of Kami, King Kai, and Whis does do similar things behind the scenes time from time. Matter of fact only Kami has fought in the front lines besides Roshi since he did fought against Piccolo and Garlic Jr twice, but that is all. But thanks to the tournament of power, Roshi will help contribute to Goku's cause yet again and may even teach Goku new tricks along the way; like the Thunder Shock Surprise attack. And that is not even accounting more moral teachings and good life lessons. If Roshi was able to teach Goku the kamehameha, afterimage technique, and the mafuba, he might give Goku one more power before the tournament of the gods commences. And we will all be looking forward to that technique if it does happen. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on May 16, 2017 19:23:43 GMT
Roshi no doubt. Kami and Popo would be a close second.
Roshi for all of the above and Kami/Popo for teaching him how to truly control his power and sense KI. Kamehameha and Roshi's martial arts philosophy is what made Goku a truly unique saiyan. And sensing KI is not something most fighters in the universe can brag. This is why Vegeta, and Ginyu in DBM started using this too.
King Kai and Yadrats are up there too. King Kai provided him 2 of his signature techniques that served to defeat many people (especially in movies). But then again, Yadrats provided him with his signature instant transmission as well (which ironically helped to kill his former mentor, LMAO).
Roshi's kamehameha is on a whole another level though. At this point of history this attack was used to conclude the battle between Cell and Gohan. Majin Buu (in a few of his forms) used the Kamehameha many times. Even the likes of Goku Black used this. Thus far this is a very impressive feat for a very old earthling.
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Post by christhesaiyan on May 16, 2017 21:39:40 GMT
Roshi. King Kai was decent but he didn't encourage Goku, in almost every real fight he acted like it was all over and told Goku to run and/or not to do the things that helped him win in the end (i.e. telling him not to use a stronger Kaioken against Vegeta and telling him to run when he fought Frieza).
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Post by Conqueror Geng on May 16, 2017 21:57:52 GMT
Roshi instilled (or perhaps only reinforced to ridiculous levels) Goku's excitement knowing there are stronger people than him. He went as far as to participate with a fake identity just to teach a lesson to Goku, which of course became one of his hallmark traits. Beerus attempted to do the same with poorer results by using Monaka.
Kami and Popo then gave further conditioning of the above in a more spiritual way. They also introduced the concept of the ROSAT which saved their asses in at least 3 (or 4) sagas now.
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Post by Griffith on May 16, 2017 23:30:48 GMT
I would say Mr Popo (Mr Popo trained Goku for most of the time, God rarely did so.) out of all of the teachers, Master Roshi, Karin, King Kai and Whis. Mr Popo not only pushed Goku to greater heights, he also reminded him at Goku's darkest point that no matter how good you think you are their will always be someone even better than you. Heck, Master Roshi even admits that even though he may be his first master Mr Popo (and Karin) were both the ones who propelled him to new heights.
But, we must never forget Grandpa Gohan's influence on Goku's life. He was the one who cared for him, he was the father to young Goku. But, I don't really consider him to be a master to Goku.
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Post by Son Pan on May 16, 2017 23:59:49 GMT
Roshi. King Kai was decent but he didn't encourage Goku, in almost every real fight he acted like it was all over and told Goku to run and/or not to do the things that helped him win in the end (i.e. telling him not to use a stronger Kaioken against Vegeta and telling him to run when he fought Frieza). Teachers have to be encouraging, but they also have a duty to let their students know what they can and can't realistically do. They need to be honest with their students limitations, so they can work with them on how to improve the best they can at realistic rate. With trainer it is especially important for them to note their students limitations because if the student oversteps they can end up seriously injuring themselves or put their life at risk. I see King Kai being a good teacher because while he encouraged Goku to get stronger he also didn't sugar coat to Goku what he can realistically achieve. Freeza situation is a perfect example. King Kai told Goku the dangers Freeza poses to Goku and the Earth itself and advised him to avoid him. Piccolo and Goku assumed King Kai was selling them short when they actually fought Freeza on Namek and it became apparent that despite all the extreme power ups Piccolo and Goku received that Freeza was worlds above them. Piccolo even admitted they should have listened to King Kai. Goku's transformation was a real miracle, because without they would all be dead and Freeza likely would have gone to Earth seeking further retribution. King Kai's assessment wasn't wrong. Even then he still cheered Goku on and gave him advise. King Kai is just practical, while Goku is more optimistic. More times then not things just end up working out for Goku, but it less based on Goku making sound judgement and things working out in strange ways. |
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Post by Axalon on Jun 26, 2017 4:10:35 GMT
Personality/Character Design:
King Kai. The peaceful little god minding his own business on his tiny planet with a love of jokes. I didn't find Roshi's pervertedness compelling, and everyone else besides Whis has, IMO, been fairly boring. I find Whis a good mix of funny and serious, but I like King Kai more.
Effectiveness:
Roshi and King Kai take this. The Kamehameha has been a staple of Goku's arsenal since the first day he saw it, and the Spirit Bomb and Kaioken have been effective tools for Goku in the past to overcome tough challenges. Overall I'd say King Kai's training had more impact on Goku in the long-term though.
Long-term impact:
Roshi and Popo combined get this, psychologically. Roshi entered the tournament in disguise to personally defeat Goku just so he would kn ow the bitter taste of defeat and not get a big head about it. He succeeded, but Goku ended up getting a big head anyway later on when he defeated King Piccolo. Fortunately, POPO was there to teach him about pecking order. Since then Goku's been fairly okay in that particular regard, though I think Beerus was a similar wake-up call to him in the "there's always someone stronger" bit.
In terms of actual training I think King Kai has had the most impact though, physically. When Goku needs to just "get away from it all" King Kai's is one of the first places he goes to, and he's always given a good meal to top it off too. Now if only he'd just resurrect the poor guy.
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