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Post by kinnikuman on Aug 30, 2017 13:51:37 GMT
I wonder how things could have gone if Black had been revealed to be Goten. I do understand that we would have to explain him but honestly that doesn't seem so hard. Would it have been more interesting if Goten had be tricked by Zamasu instead of being a Zamasu. I think there is a lot of potential there.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Aug 30, 2017 17:37:12 GMT
I wonder how things could have gone if Black had been revealed to be Goten. I do understand that we would have to explain him but honestly that doesn't seem so hard. Would it have been more interesting if Goten had be tricked by Zamasu instead of being a Zamasu. I think there is a lot of potential there. I'm assuming you're referring to the "natural flow" "Main" timeline, and not the future timeline Trunks came from. But for Zamasu to steal the body of Goten, not only does Zamas have to have the Idiot ball in regards to swapping bodies with the literal Gods, Hakaishin, but also to ignore the few mortals that are stronger than Goten. Even if we went with the "potential" angle, there's Gohan that he has to explain if he still went for Goten's body. Personally, if Zamasu wanted a body other than Goku's, it should've been Gohan's, one that hasn't been exposed to God Ki yet, yet is the strongest non fused mortal in his universe. Except Monaka!For Zamasu to steal Gohan's body, the only reason he might have done so was to damage "everything Son Goku cared about, his family." Zamasu stole Goku's body because he saw Goku in a GodTube video depicting him having strength "surpassing" the Gods, but unless he asks Zuno if Goku has a family or not (I assume GodTube would cut out the panshots to the audience) then it's a huge stretch for him to assume Goku's got a son in the first place, and steal his body. Back to your example, how and what would Goten be brainwashed into Zamasu's side for? Would this be another attempt at "what if Raditz raised Gohan" or something? He isn't impure enough for a mind control, he's pure of heart. It's just too farfetched for Goten to even be on the villain's side. The "Evil Goku" trope was played and even then, it's impossible to write Goku ever being an evil being except for DBM's U13 Kakarotto incarnation where he never hit his head. His selfishness is due to his desire to fight, but thanks to episode 105, he still cares about those close to him. Goten could be the villain just to give him a purpose now that Goku's alive again and he's not just a "Kid Goku Clone," but it's just too much assumptions for him to work. |
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Post by kinnikuman on Aug 30, 2017 18:23:23 GMT
I wonder how things could have gone if Black had been revealed to be Goten. I do understand that we would have to explain him but honestly that doesn't seem so hard. Would it have been more interesting if Goten had be tricked by Zamasu instead of being a Zamasu. I think there is a lot of potential there. I'm assuming you're referring to the "natural flow" "Main" timeline, and not the future timeline Trunks came from. But for Zamasu to steal the body of Goten, not only does Zamas have to have the Idiot ball in regards to swapping bodies with the literal Gods, Hakaishin, but also to ignore the few mortals that are stronger than Goten. Even if we went with the "potential" angle, there's Gohan that he has to explain if he still went for Goten's body. Personally, if Zamasu wanted a body other than Goku's, it should've been Gohan's, one that hasn't been exposed to God Ki yet, yet is the strongest non fused mortal in his universe. Except Monaka!For Zamasu to steal Gohan's body, the only reason he might have done so was to damage "everything Son Goku cared about, his family." Zamasu stole Goku's body because he saw Goku in a GodTube video depicting him having strength "surpassing" the Gods, but unless he asks Zuno if Goku has a family or not (I assume GodTube would cut out the panshots to the audience) then it's a huge stretch for him to assume Goku's got a son in the first place, and steal his body. Back to your example, how and what would Goten be brainwashed into Zamasu's side for? Would this be another attempt at "what if Raditz raised Gohan" or something? He isn't impure enough for a mind control, he's pure of heart. It's just too farfetched for Goten to even be on the villain's side. The "Evil Goku" trope was played and even then, it's impossible to write Goku ever being an evil being except for DBM's U13 Kakarotto incarnation where he never hit his head. His selfishness is due to his desire to fight, but thanks to episode 105, he still cares about those close to him. Goten could be the villain just to give him a purpose now that Goku's alive again and he's not just a "Kid Goku Clone," but it's just too much assumptions for him to work. I am thinking of a Future timeline Goten. (Dodges the millions of chairs thrown at me.) In a slight event alteration. As Goku was dying he actaully felt something for Chichi, and decided to spend his last moments with her. (Ok already a alteration) Goten is then born 9 months later but hidden by the Kai's. (Not Kioshins..) Goten is trained as the Back up plan incase the Androids leave earth. This never happens and Goten discovers he trained for years for nothing. Seeing Trunks hailed as the hero, Knowing his life has no purpose, he is broken... until he meet Zamasu. |
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Aug 30, 2017 18:39:45 GMT
I'm assuming you're referring to the "natural flow" "Main" timeline, and not the future timeline Trunks came from. But for Zamasu to steal the body of Goten, not only does Zamas have to have the Idiot ball in regards to swapping bodies with the literal Gods, Hakaishin, but also to ignore the few mortals that are stronger than Goten. Even if we went with the "potential" angle, there's Gohan that he has to explain if he still went for Goten's body. Personally, if Zamasu wanted a body other than Goku's, it should've been Gohan's, one that hasn't been exposed to God Ki yet, yet is the strongest non fused mortal in his universe. Except Monaka!For Zamasu to steal Gohan's body, the only reason he might have done so was to damage "everything Son Goku cared about, his family." Zamasu stole Goku's body because he saw Goku in a GodTube video depicting him having strength "surpassing" the Gods, but unless he asks Zuno if Goku has a family or not (I assume GodTube would cut out the panshots to the audience) then it's a huge stretch for him to assume Goku's got a son in the first place, and steal his body. Back to your example, how and what would Goten be brainwashed into Zamasu's side for? Would this be another attempt at "what if Raditz raised Gohan" or something? He isn't impure enough for a mind control, he's pure of heart. It's just too farfetched for Goten to even be on the villain's side. The "Evil Goku" trope was played and even then, it's impossible to write Goku ever being an evil being except for DBM's U13 Kakarotto incarnation where he never hit his head. His selfishness is due to his desire to fight, but thanks to episode 105, he still cares about those close to him. Goten could be the villain just to give him a purpose now that Goku's alive again and he's not just a "Kid Goku Clone," but it's just too much assumptions for him to work. I am thinking of a Future timeline Goten. (Dodges the millions of chairs thrown at me.) In a slight event alteration. As Goku was dying he actaully felt something for Chichi, and decided to spend his last moments with her. (Ok already a alteration) Goten is then born 9 months later but hidden by the Kai's. (Not Kioshins..) Goten is trained as the Back up plan incase the Androids leave earth. This never happens and Goten discovers he trained for years for nothing. Seeing Trunks hailed as the hero, Knowing his life has no purpose, he is broken... until he meet Zamasu. I wanna say that's too specific. Plus, if Goten is hidden by the Kais, he's bound to meet King Kai the guy who trained Goku when he was still alive. I'm pretty sure they'd want him to meet his parents in the afterlife. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2017 18:49:34 GMT
If we are already going with Goten black shit... Why not Gohan black or Trunks black itself? The future Trunks was already stronger than any version of Goten anyway. Why not Vegeta Black in fact?
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Post by Namikaze on Aug 30, 2017 19:01:47 GMT
If we are already going with Goten black shit... Why not Gohan black or Trunks black itself? The future Trunks was already stronger than any version of Goten anyway. Why not Vegeta Black in fact? During the whole mystery portion of who Black was, I was actually hoping for some sort of "Black" family that came from some negative dimension or something. Goku Black, in particular, only being the first we've seen. There was even some Black Vegito vs White Good Vegito speculation there as well. Anyway, all of them make more sense than Goten at any rate. The most Goten could've gotten from this is a bit more character, but that would require him to be a villain lol. Present Goten would still be that dull void of bland nothingness. |
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Aug 30, 2017 19:07:34 GMT
If we are already going with Goten black shit... Why not Gohan black or Trunks black itself? The future Trunks was already stronger than any version of Goten anyway. Why not Vegeta Black in fact? During the whole mystery portion of who Black was, I was actually hoping for some sort of "Black" family that came from some negative dimension or something. Goku Black, in particular, only being the first we've seen. There was even some Black Vegito vs White Good Vegito speculation there as well. Anyway, all of them make more sense than Goten at any rate. The most Goten could've gotten from this is a bit more character, but that would require him to be a villain lol. Present Goten would still be that dull void of bland nothingness. Well, if we're down this fanfiction rabbit hole, if Toriyama made Goten and Trunks relevant, we could have an "Evil Goku"... but looks like Goten obviously, Goten participate in the fight, turns out the bastard is what Goten would be if he continued down a "dark" path (of course this villain is lying, but hear me out) Goten realizes he needs to change his person before he becomes this villain version (again, not really him, just a mental game) and boom, new character development arc for Goten and relevant to the story once more. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2017 19:22:41 GMT
If we are already going with Goten black shit... Why not Gohan black or Trunks black itself? The future Trunks was already stronger than any version of Goten anyway. Why not Vegeta Black in fact? During the whole mystery portion of who Black was, I was actually hoping for some sort of "Black" family that came from some negative dimension or something. Goku Black, in particular, only being the first we've seen. There was even some Black Vegito vs White Good Vegito speculation there as well. Anyway, all of them make more sense than Goten at any rate. The most Goten could've gotten from this is a bit more character, but that would require him to be a villain lol. Present Goten would still be that dull void of bland nothingness. It will also be very weird that "Evil Goten" is very developed and then remembered, while the real Goten is 13 years old but has not grown one bit, and even has shittier clothes than in Z. Whether Goku Black/Zamasu were shitty or not, thus far they are the only true villains in DBS. |
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Post by Namikaze on Aug 30, 2017 19:44:20 GMT
During the whole mystery portion of who Black was, I was actually hoping for some sort of "Black" family that came from some negative dimension or something. Goku Black, in particular, only being the first we've seen. There was even some Black Vegito vs White Good Vegito speculation there as well. Anyway, all of them make more sense than Goten at any rate. The most Goten could've gotten from this is a bit more character, but that would require him to be a villain lol. Present Goten would still be that dull void of bland nothingness. Well, if we're down this fanfiction rabbit hole, if Toriyama made Goten and Trunks relevant, we could have an "Evil Goku"... but looks like Goten obviously, Goten participate in the fight, turns out the bastard is what Goten would be if he continued down a "dark" path (of course this villain is lying, but hear me out) Goten realizes he needs to change his person before he becomes this villain version (again, not really him, just a mental game) and boom, new character development arc for Goten and relevant to the story once more. I'm game for anything leading him to have this cool haircut again.  Most distinction he's ever had - and that was 20 years ago. I mean, you could say what you want about GT, but I applaud it for attempting to give the dude some type of character. It's one of the few things it has over both Z & Super currently. |
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Post by Ashanark on Aug 30, 2017 21:58:29 GMT
Well, if we're down this fanfiction rabbit hole, if Toriyama made Goten and Trunks relevant, we could have an "Evil Goku"... but looks like Goten obviously, Goten participate in the fight, turns out the bastard is what Goten would be if he continued down a "dark" path (of course this villain is lying, but hear me out) Goten realizes he needs to change his person before he becomes this villain version (again, not really him, just a mental game) and boom, new character development arc for Goten and relevant to the story once more. I'm game for anything leading him to have this cool haircut again. Most distinction he's ever had - and that was 20 years ago. I mean, you could say what you want about GT, but I applaud it for attempting to give the dude some type of character. It's one of the few things it has over both Z & Super currently. When you're DBZ/DBS/DBM and GT has done a better job at characterizing Goten than you, then you know you really suck at characterizing Goten. Always liked that haircut, too. |
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Post by christhesaiyan on Aug 31, 2017 1:38:00 GMT
That was my original theory, that Black was Future Goten taken and raised by Zamasu. I mainly thought that because physically Goku Black isn't even really that identical to Goku. His eyes, skin tone and overall build don't resemble Goku's that much, plus to me at least he looked like he was a lot closer to Trunks' age. If you ask me it had potential to be a great plot twist, and explore the idea of Goku's reaction to having to go up against his own son.
What with all the alternate versions of the timeline in DBZ, and Zamasu still existing in a good number of them, who knows? Maybe somewhere out there is an adult Goten turned evil by an asshole Supreme Kai.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 31, 2017 3:31:15 GMT
I think if you that were to happen that it wouldn't be solely Zamasu stealing Goku's body, but a team of Zamasus stealing the bodies of the Z Warriors, but of course the main issue with that is that it would feel way too much like GT's Baby Saga.
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Post by kinnikuman on Aug 31, 2017 4:50:02 GMT
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