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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Aug 30, 2017 17:48:21 GMT
Since the Manga chapter concluded the Goku Black Saga, we can now do a complete analysis of the saga.
Explain what you believe was the better interpretation, or which version you preferred with an alteration or two, or which one had less issues with the way the events were played (Anime Trunks doing Mafuba or Manga Goku doing a Hakai for example).
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Post by Namikaze on Aug 30, 2017 19:31:56 GMT
Before SSR Goku Black/Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fight - Anime (Goku Black mystery, more valid reasons for Zamasu's turn, cool character interactions)
During SSR Goku Black/Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fight - Manga (Fight felt more 'DBZ', More stakes and tension, Trunks being useful without a power-up)
Aftermath: Undecided (Both kinda end the same. I suppose the manga gets a slight edge for Trunks actually deciding to go back whereas the anime was like, "GET OUTTA HERE YA BLUE-HAIRED TIME TRAVELING MONKEY CHILD")
Mafuba vs Hakai: Hakai.
It's ridiculous in its own way but I was hyped when Goku performed the move actually. It highlights his progress as a fighter and how much closer he's getting to Beerus in the grand scheme of things. Mafuba, on the other hand, was just... lackluster. They both lack any real buildup. But at least it's more believable on Goku's end than it is for Trunks.
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Post by Teh Jammah on Aug 31, 2017 13:52:53 GMT
Though both kinda dragged, Manga was better paced overall, had WAY less asspulls and toned down the Goku idiocy. Vegetto actually felt like an all-powerful beatstick in the Manga and Black felt powerful without being too bullshit.
Things I'd say that the anime did better were the bits where F-Trunks interacted with Gohan & Falmily/Krillin & 18/etc, the show of respect from Vegeta at the end... and strange as it is to say, Multiverse-spanning Cloud Zamasu - which felt more like a Zeno button worthy issue than infinite clone Zamasu (which wasn't really explained very well)
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Post by panthergod on Sept 1, 2017 1:08:55 GMT
I'm gonna have to go with the manga. Not only did things make sense along with everything being well explained (with some things like the hakai being an exception) we also had much better fights than the anime with stuff like trunks vs dabura, vegeto vs merged Zamasu, super saiyan God Vegeta Vs black, etc. While the anime version had amazing animation, the amount of asspulls with trunks along with black gaining too many BS power ups really hurts its quality.
In the end I love both versions, but in terms of quality, the manga far surpasses the anime.
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Post by Axalon on Sept 1, 2017 7:10:11 GMT
I view the two sagas about the same. If I had to choose I'd pick the anime--but only because it has an epic soundtrack and the manga doesn't.
Both versions had points that made no sense, both versions had points that were really cool, both versions felt dragged out a bit too long, both versions did some things better than the other.
Anime:
- MUCH better with the goodbyes to Future Trunks. Gohan didn't have to (unknowingly) guilt-trip Trunks into leaving, there was an excellent moment where Vegeta shows how much he respects him as a fighter, etc, etc.
- SSB Vegeta's epic beatdown of SSR Black was IMO better than the manga version where it was SSB Vegeta vs SS2 Black. He just did a lot more push-ups, sit-ups and juice drinking and just WRECKED the guy.
- Trunks had a sparring match with Vegeta in the anime. In the manga he played not-Mario Kart with everyone. Wut.
- Clomasu felt more like a "Call Zen-Oh" event than a bunch of clones. His power had grown so much and his influence was being felt through TIME.
- Clomasu made no sense.
- Black randomly pulling out energy scythes and clones of himself with NO EXPLANATION was bad.
- Super Saiyan Rage was bad. Cool introduction, but bad execution and STILL NO EXPLANATION.
- The anime really needs to just explain the whole two-base thing. Manga does it better by just having the higher forms as the higher forms.
- Goku straight up forgetting the Mafuba seal was worse than mistaking the seal with something else.
Manga:
- Fights felt more brutal than the anime. More like DBZ than the anime was.
- The stamina flaw from the previous arc was just "trained away" and just shows how bad of a plot device it was when fighting Hit just to shove Vegeta out of the way.
- Vegito wasting all his energy in SSB made no sense when Goku knows how to master SSB and not waste the excess energy.
- The HAKAI was out of NOWHERE. Cool introduction but NO EXPLANATION.
- The whole Kaioshin/not-Kaioshin thing was confusing. By using the Time Ring he's supposed to be a Kaioshin. But because the potara fusion was temporary it means he isn't a Kaioshin. WHICH IS IT.
- The multiple Merged Zamasus I didn't think worked very well. At least, not how Gowasu explained it. I've heard better fan explanations for it (some even on this very forum), but the way Gowasu explains it with how they've merged on the CELLULAR level makes no sense given that this is obviously what every fusion does regardless.
- Zamasu's plan to use the Time Machine to finish the Zero Mortals Plan makes no sense, since by using the Time Machine he's guaranteeing it'll never be completed because of how it constantly makes new timelines. This means more copies of Beerus, Champa, Goku, etc. There will never be a point where there are Zero Mortals unless you DON'T use it.
- The power scaling made only slightly more sense than the anime, and that's only because of how ridiculous and out of nowhere SS Rage was. SS2 Trunks is on par with SS3 Goku but can't defeat base form Black. But then SS2 Vegeta fights SS2 Black (who has gotten even stronger since the last time Trunks fought him) and is winning? HOW?!
- Manga I feel had more pacing issues, though the anime had them as well.
Both:
- The Mafuba being thrown away for a joke in both versions was a waste.
- The potara being retconned was pointless. The fusion dance would've achieved the exact same result, give us a canon Gogeta, and allow us to keep potara permanency with Zamasu.
- The Zen-Oh button destroys all true tension unless the reader/viewer just straight up forgot about it. As long as Goku has this thing sitting in his back pocket salvation is literally a second away.
- Zamasu just needed more depth to him. I think introducing him earlier would've been beneficial. He isn't the most shallow villain (looking at you Buu) but he's still very simplistic.
- The arc continues the trend of the heroes just absolutely failing. Zen-Oh has to come save them. Heroes failing is good when used sparingly, but it's increasingly become the norm with DBS.
- Goku is an idiot.
All in all I found it to be a very underwhelming arc that had so much promise.
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