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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Dec 10, 2017 16:24:30 GMT
I'm asking this question because I want to fully understand the series and when it finally ends I can give my full take on it. So is DBS worth watching? I haven't watched an episode of this show willingly since it first started back in the BoG arc. I know there will be moments that will make me rage faster than seeing DBM Bra get spotlight once again but if I want to criticize the series I feel I need to watch it from beginning to end.
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Post by Axalon on Dec 10, 2017 16:47:22 GMT
I'd say yes. Overall I think it's more entertaining than GT was, even despite the massive shortcomings it has. I'd say DBS as a whole is about on par with the Buu Saga, which personally I don't care for all that much. The Buu Saga had great individual moments and setpieces like Majin Vegeta's last stand, Vegeta finally truly acknowledging and respecting Goku in the final battle with Kid Buu, and Vegito making a mockery of Buuhan, but the narrative as a whole, to me, felt like a chore to get through with the Super Saiyan Bargain Sales and high school Gohan and then Gotenks, etc.
That's not to say that DBZ as a whole didn't more or less use the same formula prior to Buu, just that it felt more glaring, to me, by that point as opposed to the Namek Saga where it was slightly less old hat. DBS feels a lot like the Buu formula, but repeated over and over again. Cool individual moments and setpieces like SSB Vegeta giving SSR Black his comeuppance briefly, Hit in general just being a badass, Goku's Tokyo Drift Kamehameha, or the glorious HAKAI on Zamasu...but the narrative glue as a whole also doesn't hold up well. Super Saiyan Back Tingles, an underwhelming/badly focused ToP, nonsensical power scaling even by DBZ standards, etc.
The manga (since that's always an option) does do some things cleaner than the anime by a long shot, but it also has its own problems as a result of not following the same path as the anime. The manga also benefits from hindsight in certain cases, like going out of its way to make sure everyone understood that no, this is all Zen-Oh on the brink of just erasing things and most definitely not Goku's fault for suggesting a tournament as was the case much earlier with the anime (since it's ahead and all that).
YMMV of course, but I think each does some things better than the other. For example, the manga made the Zamasu fights look more brutal than the Japanese Saturday Morning Cartoon feel of the anime is able to give with their current censorship standards or what-have-you, but at the same time anime Hit > manga Hit by a long shot. Given the difference in power scaling between the two mediums, I expect Hit to do even less in the manga in the ToP than he did in the anime.
Ultimately I think the "true DBS experience" lies in viewing both. It ends up being fascinating in its own right since you can see the hard points where the anime/manga each had to follow specific beats for each storyline and then seeing how they diverge.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 20:07:20 GMT
To enjoy DBS you have to be a diehard Dragonball fan to be honest. I don't think you could recommend it to a casual fan of Dragonball since a lot of it relies on fan service and callbacks so you have to be a diehard fan to say "Hey I remember that!" and it doesn't have much else to offer in comparison to the original. There are a some new fun characters but unfortunately they usually get underused in favor of more fan service. It's also good to have realistic expectations of it. If you hoping for a legitimate continuation that involves great character development and growth then you're likely going to be disappointed. It's been 20 years so Toriyama has forgotten a lot and pretty much everyone at Toei who worked on the original has since retired. Consistency varies depending on who is writing the episode because it seems that certain writers at Toei are more familiar with the original than others. You can get the most enjoyment out of DBS if you're willing to accept it as yet another cashgrab of today's entertainment industry and happy to see your favorite characters on screen again regardless if they feel like caricatures or not. To appreciate the effort put into the manga, you have to watch the anime first. I also like to think it's Toriyama having fun and parodying some of the overused tropes found in the original by taking them to ridiculous extremes and also parodying common fanfiction tropes. For example: Power scaling: Hmm my last villain was capable of destroying the universe over time so why not go all the way and have the current antagonist capable of destroying it in one blast! It's bound to happen eventually so might as well have it happen now. SSJB/Golden Freeza: New transformations sure are popular with the fans. They always try to come up with extravagant names for simple recolored transformations. Let's poke some fun at that creativity and recolor SSJ blue and recolor Freeza gold and call them that! Freeza: I've had a lot of crazy power-ups in order to quickly have the characters stand up to their current threat. Let's have Freeza come back and surpass every character of the following two sagas! A lot of fans love this idea of Freeza or another member of his race returning for revenge and they always try to explain it by saying they've trained for many years in secret. Let's have him do it in four months! Monaka: I sometimes like to subvert expectations such as having Freeza's final form look the least intimidating or the evil Kaioshin-killing monster turn out to be an overweight, bubblegum creature. Why not go for a double subversion and have the weak looking fighter that it toted as being the strongest and end up being weak! Zeno: Yet another double subversion! The strongest deity will not only look like a child...but also act like one! I'm sure fans would assume the oldest and most powerful deity would be quite wise but for shits and giggles let's make him the dumbest of the gods and the most dangerous being in the multiverse! He is so stupid that he would wipe out all of existence over a minor annoyance and then aimlessly float around the empty void for all eternity than to just eliminate whatever it is that's annoying him. Trunks saga ending: I've had so many happy endings in the past. Well why not go the opposite extreme and have the most tragic ending I've ever done! There is no in-between when it comes to an effective parody and you must go from one extreme to the other! How's that for a surprise? What makes it even more tragic is that it's at the hands of the most powerful God who you all would assume cares at all about the universe he's been ruling over! Back tingles: It sure became a SSJ bargain sale during the Buu saga with the introduction of SSJ Goten and Trunks. Why not have a Saiyan girl obtain SSJ1 and SSJ2 even quicker than them with an even cheaper explanation! You kinda see where I'm going with this. I don't think Toriyama is trying very hard when he's writing the outline. I feel he purposely set the story within a timeskip so he could freely mess around and then either retcon it when he's bored or resolve everything and revert back to his original ending like nothing happened. A lot of the stuff I mentioned feel like they're thrown in there for the sake of shocking and surprising fans and don't serve any purpose other than that. I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama reveals he purposely made DBS as ridiculous as possible and took every overused trope in the manga to the extreme so that no one would ever bother him again or ever try to make another sequel. This could be his way to self-reflect on his old story and give it one final sendoff before he retires. It makes it easier to watch when you look at it that way I guess. Given the difference in power scaling between the two mediums, I expect Hit to do even less in the manga in the ToP than he did in the anime. I think the anime retconned Hit's power to bring it down to what it was originally intended to be. In the manga, Hit was around SSJG tier but weaker than SSJB while in the anime he was able to survive blows from SSJB Kaiokenx10. Now during the ToP, SSJG was apparently enough to help Hit against Dypso which wouldn't make sense if Goku needed Kaioken x10 just to keep up with Hit before. |
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Post by Axalon on Dec 10, 2017 23:00:53 GMT
Given the difference in power scaling between the two mediums, I expect Hit to do even less in the manga in the ToP than he did in the anime. I think the anime retconned Hit's power to bring it down to what it was originally intended to be. In the manga, Hit was around SSJG tier but weaker than SSJB while in the anime he was able to survive blows from SSJB Kaiokenx10. Now during the ToP, SSJG was apparently enough to help Hit against Dypso which wouldn't make sense if Goku needed Kaioken x10 just to keep up with Hit before. Ehhh, I'm not so sure. Dyspo seemed more like a hard counter to Hit's ability. He was fast enough and his ears sensitive enough that he knew when Hit was about to skip time and so struck just before he was able to. Once Hit knew Dyspo's secret he stopped being a problem for Hit. Like many opponents in the ToP, Dyspo had a gimmick he used, and once the gimmick was found out he stopped being a viable opponent against someone like Hit, who proceeded to pummel him like a punching bag without taking a scratch after that point. On the topic of Goku, it should be noted that SSG Goku had to power up to SSB to actually start fighting Dyspo effectively. As a SSG Dyspo was so fast that Goku didn't even have time to use IT and towards the end of this clip Goku as a SSG was once again punched back by a confident and smiling Dyspo, who only seemed to have a disadvantage when Goku switched to SSB. Also is the fact that Goku and Hit had a rematch at one point before the ToP, and Goku has progressed enough that just SSB without the Kaioken is now sufficient for him to deal with Hit. So ultimately we have Hit taking on a SSB level opponent, which I think isn't unprecedented at all, especially since it follows the pattern of ToP gimmicks and actually maintains the continuity from the previous tournament arc. |
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Post by iron leaf on Dec 11, 2017 0:14:04 GMT
To enjoy DBS you have to be a diehard Dragonball fan to be honest. I don't think you could recommend it to a casual fan of Dragonball since a lot of it relies on fan service and callbacks so you have to be a diehard fan to say "Hey I remember that!" and it doesn't have much else to offer in comparison to the original. There are a some new fun characters but unfortunately they usually get underused in favor of more fan service. It's also good to have realistic expectations of it. If you hoping for a legitimate continuation that involves great character development and growth then you're likely going to be disappointed. It's been 20 years so Toriyama has forgotten a lot and pretty much everyone at Toei who worked on the original has since retired. Consistency varies depending on who is writing the episode because it seems that certain writers at Toei are more familiar with the original than others. You can get the most enjoyment out of DBS if you're willing to accept it as yet another cashgrab of today's entertainment industry and happy to see your favorite characters on screen again regardless if they feel like caricatures or not. To appreciate the effort put into the manga, you have to watch the anime first. Honestly, I always assumed the opposite. Die hard fans of all people wouldn't be able to enjoy this series because of the fanservice. I'm really disgusted by the sloppy implementation of fanservice in DBS. And I never thought I would witnessed such horrible fanservice in any entertainment product. Imo, that's the "casual" fans fault that there is fanservice in the first place because the studio & Toriyama are pandering to them just so the casuals can "recognize" all the things from the past. Such like: "Oh, oh, I remember there was something similar in the past. Oh, oh, what was it again? Man, I have to check it out on Google or on Youtube because I don't remember correctly. ... Oh, I was right, about that one thing I recognized. Man I'm so proud of myself for recognizing all that Dragonball stuff from the past. I have to call all my other friends and tell them." I don't know about you guys but in my head there is always a voice telling me constantly: "They aren't doing this because they want to make a continuation to DBZ. They have other priorities." SSJ4 GOD MultiIs DBS worth watching? Let's do it in a diplomatic way. Nobody should ever watch the first 2 arc ever again. The 2 movies are honestly enough. It is breathtakingly unbelievable how they managed to give more information and awesome action in two 1½ hours movies rather than in two 5½ hours arcs. The only positive I can say. I would take the 2 movies over the 2 arcs anytime and continue afterwards with the Universe 6 arc. |
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Post by supernekomajin on Dec 11, 2017 2:19:12 GMT
It's far from perfect, but it's better than GT and it's got some cool concepts. I give it a 6 or 7 out of 10. The manga's shorter, but better.
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Post by Xeno Black on Dec 11, 2017 3:56:04 GMT
The anime and the manga has their flaws. It is almost universally accepted both in this forum and in the DB community. But both do offer some interesting moments too such as Hit and some of the Zamasu fights. Is it worth watching it? Of course, but I am in the boat that the manga is superior. It has a stronger DBZ spirit compared to the anime, something I appreciate immensely. This single panel alone triumphs over 90% of the anime in terms of capturing the spirit we all love.  So in this regard watch both to get the best of both worlds. Again both have their issues, but together it does create something amazing and you cannot help but have this itch to smash the best ideas of both to truly create the ideal "Dragon Ball Super". Axalon said: But...but...Gotenks is cool.   |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 11, 2017 4:36:07 GMT
It's far from perfect, but it's better than GT and it's got some cool concepts. I give it a 6 or 7 out of 10. The manga's shorter, but better. Very debatable. I have been meaning to start a step-by-step GT comparison threead vs. DBS. I just need to binge-watch GT. Everything but Zamasu/Black saga was far worse than anything on GT. It becomes even worse when you consider that saga is a mishmash of 2 fan comics like this one (one done by Toyotaro nonetheless). |
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