Do you like Ultra Instinct?

I find Goku's Ultra Instinct to be a fantastic form. Out of all the new saiyan transformations in Super, Ultra Instinct is a very basic form used in the most powerful ways. I like this since it is not too flashy or unnecessary, yet has a simple ability where it is applicable in many combat situations. And in Goku's case, he achieved it involuntarily after being hit by his own spirit bomb. The spirit bomb collision allowed Goku to break through all previous limits while attaining access to a deeper level of latent potential. How exactly the whole unlock procedure worked is unknown, and not even Goku fully understands how he achieved this power. But the Spirit Bomb was a major catalyst for the forms attainment, something everybody agrees with. Perhaps down the line more info will be released on how to attain it exactly.

Now Ultra Instinct is a technique. All the angels or Destroyers either have it or wish to possess it. It is exceedingly difficult to learn and perfect, but once mastered you will have a near-perfect defense system against all enemy attacks. It is the transformation of the mind, and your instinct become dominant as the conscious mind takes a step back. The synapses of time in your nervous system is greatly enhanced from instinct alone, which allows the user to react near instantaneously. Very useful indeed. Yet it also has its flaws, thus making it more balanced and not too hax. And the flaws are being bypassed by insecure attack methods (one bites your arm as you choke him from behind), stepping on "poop" due to the lack of surrounding environment attention, or being unable to attack properly due to pre-inclined cognition, which hampers down natural instinct tremendously. But complete mastery over all flaws theoretically makes the user invincible since he can potentially defeat vastly stronger opponents with minimum stamina drain. What god would not want this power?

Now Goku's usage is actually different compared to all previous users. It is a transformation in his case that possesses the ultra instinct technique. In Dokkan Battle and Heroes it is known as "Omen", to help differentiate it even further. Now the Omen transformation gives the user very basic changes, yet is pleasing in design. It like a combination between Mystic, Super Saiyan God, and Mastered Blue, but with neither's imperfections. Ability-wise all of his physical parameters and ki are greatly enhanced, surpassing Super Saiyan Blue using the Kaio-Ken times 20. Insane right? In addition to having the basic ultra instinct technique, Goku has a advanced growth rate and can ignore previous stamina issues. But Goku can seemingly for the time being only activate it briefly while in dire situations. This makes the form ultimately unstable and somewhat random. In addition the natural flaws of Ultra Instinct carries over, thus making offensive capabilities hampered and making the user more exhausted upon returning to base. So in the end it is a desperate power that comes for a short season.

But hypothetically speaking, if Goku could somehow perfect the flaws of the Omen transformation, he could defeat anybody. His growth rate, instinctual grasp of everything, and fighting would be top-tier. He would be able to dodge everything, attack through all defenses, and use techniques such as hakai without issues. Now is it possible to achieve this? I cannot say, but potential growth to such perfected levels are plausible. And knowing Goku (or Vegeta hopefully), they might attain this highly rewarding completion state.

Some has forgotten that UI is not just sayian transformation and this is big plus for me. Since, we have something that others could achieve even if unlikely.
The thing I do not want to see is Goku mastering this form as quick as his other's transformations. Remember he can't truly transform by himself as he requires to be in dangerous situation.

Ultra Instinct, huh? Which Ultra Instinct are we talking about? I always wanted to know more about the DBZ version.

It certainly started the trend of "useless" transformations that can't truly beat anyone they're facing. That is, if we skip SSJ4.

However, unlike Red and Blue, SSJ3 and SSJ4 are more than pointless recolors with digital anime CGI.

The wondrous things an inking error can do. And oh fuck, after eating Super's soy substitute getting a load of DBZ beef is making me a little sick.
I'm going to sound like an idiot for bringing this up a third time, but why was he fighting like he was in danger at all? He's pure of heart, that spirit bomb should have bounced off him like a beach ball, or done no more damage than a light tan. Absorbing the energy of the spirit bomb I can buy but the fighting aspect puzzles me.

Maybe the implosion made it function differently, like by that point it's just raw power or something, which Goku has to fight against, as opposed to the more controlled form when it's the Spirit Bomb we all know so well.

I dunno, that's just random speculation on my part. I think the whole scenario is dumb.



Hey look at that. Goku handling multiple opponents working as a team and defeating them all at once. That'd be nice to have seen happen more often in the ToP.

So guys, what is your view on Ultra Instinct now?
Should we consider UI and Mastered UI as two different transformations? This reminds me alot of the fake SSJ in the Slug movie. Then again, you could compare it with normal SSJ and FPSSJ, right? Nevertheless, they should change the name Mastered UI. It confuses the heck out of me that Goku can't use something he allegedly mastered already.

Despite it being asspullery of the highest order- I still liked the whole 'Fighting by pure instinct' schtick it had. The Auto-dodge and 'mastered' perfect attacks really worked with 'tournament' style fighting.

I'd say they're both the same transformation, and that the 'mastered' version goku whipped out at the end was more of a 'complete' version of U.I. If he'd mastered it then he would have been able to bring it out at anytime and use it's abilities to their maximum extent. I don't know about you but even at the end that certainly didn't seem like the case to me. Especially since he was brought down by the 'recoil' of using such an extrmem state. If Goku had truly mastered it then that wouldn't have been a problem at all.

For me i'd compare the 3 uses of U.I to our gangs various attempts to ascend beyond Super Saiyan throughout the Cell games.

First time using U.I = Super Vegeta (Partially ascended- great gain in power but still only a partial transformation with drawbacks)

Second time using U.I = FPSS Goku (More fully ascended- Much better control and even greater gain of power but still not done perfectly)

Third and final time using U.I = SS2 Gohan (Ascended properly- Completely O.P and basically untouchable) 

This theory also explains why Goku can't really use it even though he supposedly mastered it- Without that mental 'trigger' he just can't access it, much like Gohan struggled to transform into SS2 beyond the Cell games without accessing that pure rage that drove him to ascend the first time

Xeno Black this post isn't aimed at you specifically. Just that bolded part of the comment. Just have to make that clear.

*raises hand*

Call me old-fashioned, but when Goku power creeps this hard it's often to the detriment of all the characters around him. You could argue that Goku has always done this, and you'd be right, but these powerups are accumulative. For instance, the Namek Saga was a grueling tale as Gohan and Krillin (both weaker than Goku by leaps and bounds) rush to Namek to get the Namekian DBs. Along the way they're forced to team up with that dastardly Vegeta of all people in the face of bigger threats. Goku doesn't even factor into the Namek Saga until the Ginyus have thoroughly messed up the remaining protagonists, but then gets removed from the story again while all the other characters have to fend off Frieza. Piccolo even joins in at this point with his own substantial powerup, but the focus is still on Gohan, Krillin, Vegeta and Piccolo all doing what they can against the immovable object that is Frieza until Goku finishes his healing bath.

The Namek/Frieza Saga is a great tale, one of the best in DB...but the chances of something like this happening again decreases the further and further Goku gains over his peers. The Android/Cell Sagas were essentially a repeat of this same narrative theme, except all the important side characters this time around were Super Saiyans aside from Piccolo in the buildup to Perfect Cell with everyone else essentially becoming glorified cameos. Tien holding off Semi-Perfect Cell is still treated like a HUGE DEAL to this very day...because it IS. He didn't even scratch the guy, but holy shit a non-Saiyan is actually doing something, even if only briefly!

Obligatory TFS reference:



As characters get left further and further behind this means either the invention of new characters who Goku will surpass yet again, or just straight-up more Goku focus period and then we get stuff like the Zamasu Saga where it was literally just Goku and Vegeta hopping back and forth between timelines hoping that THIS time they'll kick his ass and not the other way around...because at this point who else can help them when universe-busters like Goku and Vegeta are having a tough time? Future Trunks is strong, but as a measly FPSS2 he's way out of his league. Even that absurd Super Saiyan Rage form ended up not helping. You can't repeat a grueling struggle like Namek with someone like Tien and Piccolo (both vastly inferior to Future Trunks) trying to accomplish some objective without making Goku Black or El Padre Grande or whoever look horrendously incompetent for not being able to instantly win thanks to the sheer power creep.

Toriyama has never handled power creep well.

Goku and Piccolo were once nearly equal in late DB/early DBZ, with a slight edge to Goku. Following Goku's death and subsequent training with King Kai, and adding in the Kaioken technique, Goku is now substantially beyond all the other Z Fighters and Nappa combined. Even when other characters get buffed up, they quickly fall by the wayside again once Goku gets another powerup. In one week of training Goku shoots up to 90,000 BP. This immediately puts everyone substantially short of him again. Krillin went up to 10,000 after Guru did his thing, but now Goku is worth OVER 9000 Namek-Saga Krillins.

Rinse and repeat for all of DBZ. Side characters come and go and in the end Goku stands alone (with Vegeta furiously running to keep up).

DBS was a novel concept/return to classic DB values with Goku actually losing to the antagonist for once, even WITH another bullshit powerup thanks to the SSG ritual. So even though Goku had once again gotten ahead of the pack by ridiculous leaps and bounds (with Vegeta determinedly tagging along) someone was actually there to put a check on him, much like what Roshi did to him in the first tournament many years ago.

So naturally this being DB Goku naturally gets stronger...except its a bit different this time. Frieza reveals he too has the ability to get bullshit powerups, and actually overpowers Goku's own new powerup that he got offscreen. Fully Rested Golden Frieza effortlessly tanks hits from SSB Goku as if they're nothing. In the end Frieza ultimately loses due to lack of stamina/Whis rewinding time on him, not because Goku screamed himself to another powerup.

The U6 tournament is where the manga/anime diverge a bit for the first time, so I'll use the anime since the DBS manga reverts to power being the end-all be-all much more quickly than the anime does. While Goku reveals the return of the mighty Kaioken technique to counter Hit's Time Skip technique, this in and of itself doesn't give Goku the victory. Hit is still able to keep up with Goku, a fact made all too noticeable when Goku complains (as Goku does) that Hit isn't even allowed to go at 100% due to the rules of the tournament while Goku gets to give his all and Hit is still slugging it out with him despite it all.

So now yet another person who could keep Goku in check has come around. Hit. While we don't know how much stronger Goku has gotten from RoF to U6 Tournament, we do know that Frieza doing just mental training alone was equal to a post-Zamasu SSB Goku, though without the Kaioken added. IMO it's safe to say that with the addition of Hit, the characters who could potentially be an equal/decent rival to Goku continues to grow. Goku now has Whis, Beerus, Hit and potentially Golden Frieza at this point.

...But then the Tournament of Power happens. Instead of having a wealth of universes with potential adversaries...they all just converge into one tournament that isn't even an hour long and Goku is already stronger than almost everyone there from the word "GO". What a waste of world building. But the ToP doesn't stop there in the destruction of world building. Oh no, it goes EVEN FURTHER BEYOND.

Even though the message going in was "Oh no, power isn't everything in the Tournament of Power! Teamwork and tactics and stuff will work too!" ...it totally ended up being about power. Goku screamed his way into a powerup that even the gods hadn't been able to attain in millions of years in less than an hour. Oh sure, #17 was the MVP because he actually used tactics, but victory wouldn't have been possible against Jiren's sheer power if Goku hadn't overpowered him in the first place with raw power and nothing else. Hell, in the manga Goku is counting on screaming his way to a new powerup as his only long-term winning strategy!

In one fell swoop Goku has now made Jiren look like an insect. Jiren himself made everyone who came before him look like an insect. Goku now potentially is stronger than, or is at the very least on the same level as, the Gods of Destruction now ON TOP OF being the strongest mortal in 12 Universes! In less than an hour! What more is there at this point? You've got the angels...and Zen-Oh. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Beerus, though at this point if Goku isn't on his level by now, he will be soon. Possibly some chump from one of the universes who didn't participate. Do you next reveal that Zen-Oh is actually the ruler of one of 12 different multiverses, with ZEN Zen-Oh, the Omega Omni-King as the ruler of all Zen-Ohs?

Now, I suppose if the majority of fans are just Goku fans then Goku climbing up the universal totem pole so quickly is all fine and dandy...at the cost of everyone he's stepped over to get there. I feel like this was realized at some point, which is why the supposedly "Mastered" Ultra Instinct is actually inaccessible to Goku currently...because it actually locks him to a "more reasonable" power level that gives the future some goddamn breathing room to work with without having the need to introduce some new character who can destroy the multiverse by sneezing or by handing out Ultra Instinct powerups like candy.