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Post by TheAncientCenturion on Apr 28, 2017 7:16:39 GMT
He implies it by outright stating that he is suppressing his power. Your interpretation of what Gohan is saying makes no sense. He is stating "This is nothing... He gets way stronger than this." It is essentially implying Freeza is suppressing his gargantuan strength. There is no way around this statement. Freeza can suppress his strength far more than that as he was capable of not squashing base form Vegeta with a single strike. The Ginyu force were essentially the filler in the Namek Saga. And heck, even if you ignore that statement every guide book describes King Cold's power as inferior to his sons. Heck Freeza only brang King Cold in the first place as he was essentially back up, that would not be the case if King Cold was stronger than his son. And that does not change the fact that even King Cold himself treats Freeza as the strongest in the universe. I cannot help but disagree with that statement. Also, as it was stated in a Guide Book King Cold rules behind the scene. And King Cold in the original manga doesn't even have a name, he's only refereed to as Freeza's father. And also, meet Kuriza son of Freeza. By the looks of it he should be in his first form, and he has two higher forms. Right? Nope, that's his only transformation. For all we know King Cold has only one suppression form that he needs, and Freeza molded his form after his father. The two may have both died like bitches but Freeza is definitely stronger than his father. I never treat databooks as official and the top source of information because it contradicts the main story sometimes so I usually goes off what makes the most sense or what is the common consciences with the community. But I doubt Frieza was suppressing his power when on Earth, Frieza never trained in his life at this point in time (if you count Resurrection F) so how did he learn to suppress his power? Even if you don't count Resurrection F since it wasn't created at this point in time, do you honestly believe that Frieza would have pulled a Vegeta and learn to control his ki? Doubtful. Frieza after gaining his cybernetics and more power only wanted revenge and rushed to Earth once recuperated. Like on Namek Frieza wasn't suppressing his power he was either in his restricted form or wasn't at his full power. Frieza can raise his power but that's about it, he just lets it relax which isn't even at a low power level, his power is regarded in the millions. Gohan sensed Frieza's power from his 1st form to his final form and when Frieza was in his final form he sensed his power from 1% to 50%. So knowing that Frieza could get even stronger comparing the power he sensed on Namek then that comment makes perfect sense when he says, "This is nothing... He gets way stronger than this."And though the databooks states that Cold is weaker than Frieza, does it make any sense? His name has "KING" in it, why have the name KING Cold if your not the king. They could have easily just named him Cold. And why would Frieza leave his father alive? If his father is the true ruler or is even a threat of trying to take over his organization wouldn't a tyrant like Frieza kill his father immediately. Even if Cold is weaker why leave someone who is a possible threat alive? I doubt its sentiment for keeping him around. Frieza also said that he had never been hurt in his life except by his parents, referring to King Cold since he is his father which means Cold was able to damage him at least. And Cold working behind the scenes seems to imply that he is the TRUE ruler while he makes his son as the poster boy/"true" ruler to the public. Though it is never stated who is stronger in the manga and we never saw Cold and Frieza go all out when on Earth it's pretty much your own opinion on how you look at it. Just how Cold was directing Frieza, scolded him, and treated him like a child, this is only a relationship shown between a father who is controlling their child's life. And we have no idea which form Cold is in. Everyone assumes that Cold is in his second form since it looks almost exactly like Frieza's second form but he doesn't resemble the final form like Cooler and Frieza. And regarding Kuriza he does have a final form an looks exactly like Frieza and Cooler, not King Cold. But again this is all speculation on who is stronger. If you follow the databooks then Cold is stronger but if you go by your own assumptions and word play in the manga/anime then Cold is stronger. I'm on the side of Cold being stronger though.
First off, I'd just advise everyone to take RoF and later DB works with a grain of salt. Not only are they, in some cases, contradictory to the original story that ended in the 90's. But Akira isn't fully on the ball. An interview alongside Oda of One Piece showcases this a bit. He showcases this a bit with confusion towards Tao and Pilaf's mech. As for the whole "Controlling your power level" shtick. Yes, Frieza didn't have a mastery of that technique. But he displayed the capability to raise and lower it. In his second form against Piccolo, obviously when he started relatively "weak" against the Z-fighters in Namek and rose his strength to be just a bit stronger than his opponents. Most ironically when powering up against Goku. We have zero reason to believe that Frieza was using anything but his initial strength (when reaching his 4th form, or whatever the Mecha relative to that is) when arriving on Earth. He is incapable of using his full power, as we've seen, and his strength isn't 100% mastered. Meaning that being at any powered up form would be pointless. But, we see no indication of Frieza using any modicum of his true strength. Did he power up in the ship? He'd risk damaging that, if he were to reach any substantial level. He didn't when he arrived on Earth initially - no note of that has been made either. The best we have is Krillin and Gohan's words; "There's another big Chi just like Frieza's...""Frieza's that powerful..." "He gets way Stronger""There's two of them..Two Behemoths.."As for belitting Frieza. . .Cold never does that. Ever. He compliments him. The most he gets to any belittlement would be what we can all agree is a ruse after Frieza's dead. Looking at this moment in particular. Frieza is fairly confident in his own strength, believing he got stronger. And contrary to popular belief. He's never said any false hoods (that were not the cause of later retcons) about his strength.  He believes he can defeat Goku, but states that Cold would be strong enough to help in a fight. Which, going by everything else, supports the statement from the DaizenshuuKing Kold
King of the universe.
[Fir.] Chapter 329
[Par.] Freeza's father. In their organization, he exists as a shadow; other than family and henchman directly under his control, his existence is unknown, even to the Ginyuu Special Squad. He is the head of the strongest family in the universe, but he falls slightly behind Freeza.
[Bat.] Seeing that it was unwise to directly battle Trunks, who had very easily defeated his son Freeza, he steals his sword with smooth talk. But, in the end, he was put into his grave with one strike.This, coupled with the fact that Frieza is incapable of harnessing his full power for long durations and doubtlessly without some negative drawback, makes any full on confrontation with a being of near equal power unwise. Simply put, Frieza would not be capable of fighting Cold to the death and not coming out of it without being heavily wounded himself. Less than ideal, with a chance of losing on the table. Why risk it when you can wait out your older parent? Frieza was the face of the empire for all too see.
There's almost nothing in the manga or supporting material to support the notion that Cold > Frieza. It comes from Fanfiction, web comics, and the perception that Cold's apparant second form is = to Frieza at his enhanced 4th form. Which is a hard pill to swallow. Just, doing the numbers here. The commonly accepted notion for a PL for Frieza is 120,000,000 at his fullest. He's 530,000 at his first form. let's assume each transformation pushes him at least to double the previous. 2nd form = 1,060,000 3rd form = 2,120,000 4th form (Initial level) = 4,240,000 120,000,000 / 4,240,000 (to see the difference and assume it's the same for Cold) = 28.301 Let's assume King Cold is equal to Frieza, in his second form. King Cold Form 2 = 4,240,000 King Cold Form 3 = 8,480,000 King Cold Form 4 (Initial) = 16,960,000 Using the 28.301 and suggesting that the difference between Frieza's initial and Max power is the same as Colds. . Cold's full power is. . 479,984,960. Goku on Namek and likely Trunks when fighting those two had a power level of 150,000,000. Does it seem likely that a character more than double Goku's strength was introduced so early and destroyed so casually, with no real thought or reference to his potential? The best we got was "comparable" to Frieza. The logic of the matter doesn't make sense. Cold's almost certainly not as gifted as his son (which Akira did say..) and neither are any of his transformations dwarfing Frieza. It's silly.
About how many of Freeza’s race are there? Are they quite thriving, with a big population?
Freeza is what you might call a mutated life-form. Strictly speaking, Freeza’s father is a mutant with an abnormally high battle power. And, born from his father alone4, still in strong possession of the mutant traits, was Freeza.
Accordingly, even saying “Freeza’s race”, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal [level of] battle power and cruelty.^ Taken from another interview, the same where he released Gine's name as Goku's mother. |
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Post by fooshin on Apr 28, 2017 15:41:21 GMT
Just an idea but it could be that ki works very differently for frost demons. They don't so much raise or lower their ki at will but instead transform their bodies in order to accommodate this. Sometimes this change is quite noticeable and sometimes it's not. It could very well be that freeza on earth is exactly the same pl that he was at the end of his fight with goku (plus enhancements and plus fully rested and recovered). An example of this being the case would be from DBM where cold is severely injured in an augmented form. He doesn't revert back to his 4th/base form on his own the way vegeta would after getting his crap kicked in. Instead, cooler comments that he will revert on his own meaning it requires a willful action to decrease his pl one that mecha freeza may have never decided to do (as in reverting back to 3% or whatever).
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Post by Solus on Apr 28, 2017 21:20:54 GMT
I also don't see, why it should matter. But for the sake of the discussion:
1. I'd like to see a manga source that explicitly states that Freezer is stronger than Cold. I haven't found one (besides Freezer on Namek claiming to be the strongest). There are a whole lot of points that speak for Cold beeing at least as strong as Freezer which I won't repeat here.
2. I think there is a missunderstanding what suppression means. While it is absolutely correct that Freezer controlled the power of his movements when he fought against inferior opponents like Piccolo and Vegeta it doesn't mean that he suppressed his Ki in that moment. I believe, what scouters meassure and the Z-Fighters are able to sense, is just the intensity of ones aura which is directly related to one's actual strength. Reducing the Power of your hit to squash a fly on a window is not the same as hiding the limits of your strength. It might be complicated to understand but I hope you get what I mean. Maybe a car would be a more fitting image. If a car has like 500 ps (horse powers) it is still capable to go 20 km/h. But you can feel, what it is capable of.
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Post by TheAncientCenturion on Apr 29, 2017 4:59:59 GMT
I also don't see, why it should matter. But for the sake of the discussion: 1. I'd like to see a manga source that explicitly states that Freezer is stronger than Cold. I haven't found one (besides Freezer on Namek claiming to be the strongest). There are a whole lot of points that speak for Cold beeing at least as strong as Freezer which I won't repeat here. 2. I think there is a missunderstanding what suppression means. While it is absolutely correct that Freezer controlled the power of his movements when he fought against inferior opponents like Piccolo and Vegeta it doesn't mean that he suppressed his Ki in that moment. I believe, what scouters meassure and the Z-Fighters are able to sense, is just the intensity of ones aura which is directly related to one's actual strength. Reducing the Power of your hit to squash a fly on a window is not the same as hiding the limits of your strength. It might be complicated to understand but I hope you get what I mean. Maybe a car would be a more fitting image. If a car has like 500 ps (horse powers) it is still capable to go 20 km/h. But you can feel, what it is capable of. 1. You're dense. I'll get the insults out of the way immediately. That's a dense and disingenuous way of arguing this factor. Neither is outright stated to be stronger, but logical conclusions and second hand sources (alongside Frieza's claim) points towards the son being mightier. If we want to play this game - Give me any source that claims Cold is even .000001% stronger. I'll wait. 2. Lotta no's here, too. Scouters - Accurately gauge the power that an animal, person, or entity is putting out. Life energy, to be specific. Which is why Androids can't be measured. Here's a list of examples; - Raditz against Piccolo and Goku. He had no idea how strong they were when out of training gear
- Jeice using his scanner against Goku - Believing Goku had a PL of just 5,000
- The Fodder Frieza Soldiers fighting Trunks. They believed he had a PL of just 5.
- Nappa on Goku, when Goku returned from the Other World.
It's been established as fact. So, I don't understand how you'll be claiming that scouters can gauge a fighters full strength. As for sensing. . Gonna disagree again. It's the same principle. You feel what energy your opponent is manifesting / outputting. Not their hidden power. Again. A list of things that contradict this claim;
- Piccolo not knowing Frieza could get stronger.
- Vegeta not knowing Frieza's true Strength in his fourth form.
- Gohan having to explain to Yamcha that Frieza could get stronger.
- Goku not knowing that Frieza had enough power to survive the Spirit Bomb
Goku and the Z-fighters (alongside some villains) seem capable of knowing when an opponent is holding back. I'll be chalking that down to them being more warriors to the core than sensing, as it doesn't make any. . Sense at all.
Suppression is the wrong word to describe what characters like Ginyu and Frieza do. It's more of power regulation. They aren't able to completely hide their power levels and make them appear as 0 (invisible to scouters). Frieza also 100% suppressed his Ki in those battles. Otherwise Piccolo wouldn't be surprised. Vegeta would've shit his pants. Et cetera. It doesn't make sense, dawg.
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Post by fooshin on Apr 29, 2017 5:35:10 GMT
Neither is outright stated to be stronger, but logical conclusionsand second hand sources (alongside Frieza's claim) points towards the son being mightier. Given that we know what freeza's self described "true form" looks like... and given that we know cold looks exactly like a particular state of reduction that freeza can transform himself into then I have to admit that it is a pretty damn logical conclusion that cold is in a state of reduction and that his "true form" looks a whole lot closer to his own son's. That is just an assumption but one hell of an obvious one. |
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Post by Solus on Apr 29, 2017 7:30:51 GMT
1. You're dense. I'll get the insults out of the way immediately. That's a dense and disingenuous way of arguing this factor. Neither is outright stated to be stronger, but logical conclusions and second hand sources (alongside Frieza's claim) points towards the son being mightier. If we want to play this game - Give me any source that claims Cold is even .000001% stronger. I'll wait. 2. Lotta no's here, too. Scouters - Accurately gauge the power that an animal, person, or entity is putting out. Life energy, to be specific. Which is why Androids can't be measured. Here's a list of examples; - Raditz against Piccolo and Goku. He had no idea how strong they were when out of training gear
- Jeice using his scanner against Goku - Believing Goku had a PL of just 5,000
- The Fodder Frieza Soldiers fighting Trunks. They believed he had a PL of just 5.
- Nappa on Goku, when Goku returned from the Other World.
It's been established as fact. So, I don't understand how you'll be claiming that scouters can gauge a fighters full strength. As for sensing. . Gonna disagree again. It's the same principle. You feel what energy your opponent is manifesting / outputting. Not their hidden power. Again. A list of things that contradict this claim;
- Piccolo not knowing Frieza could get stronger.
- Vegeta not knowing Frieza's true Strength in his fourth form.
- Gohan having to explain to Yamcha that Frieza could get stronger.
- Goku not knowing that Frieza had enough power to survive the Spirit Bomb
Goku and the Z-fighters (alongside some villains) seem capable of knowing when an opponent is holding back. I'll be chalking that down to them being more warriors to the core than sensing, as it doesn't make any. . Sense at all.
Suppression is the wrong word to describe what characters like Ginyu and Frieza do. It's more of power regulation. They aren't able to completely hide their power levels and make them appear as 0 (invisible to scouters). Frieza also 100% suppressed his Ki in those battles. Otherwise Piccolo wouldn't be surprised. Vegeta would've shit his pants. Et cetera. It doesn't make sense, dawg.
1. Why are you insulting me? Seems like you feel personally insulted by me demanding a source. I never claimed that there is a source that puts Cold above Freezer. I only said, that both of them seem to be of similar strength and there is nothing reliable that really provides any other information. (I don't count Freezer's statement as reliable, since he still claimed to be the strongest AFTER he's been defeated). Given the whole issue with the reduction forms it seems pretty obvious that Cold can reach a state where he is stronger than Freezer. As there is no evidence in Canon for Cold beeing able to transform and no evidence for him not beeing able to do so, we will never know. And there is no point in discussing it, since DBM allready gave an answer for that matter which is undeniable (regarding DBM, that is). 2. Although some of your examples could be argued about, you seem to have a point there. To put my reasoning in your words: Scouters and Ki sensing do indeed meassure the same thing. You named it output. I can go with that. What I originally wanted to say is that this output has nothing to do with the applied strength in battle, because it can also be meassured in a state of absolute tranquility. Beeing able to fight Vegeta without instantly killing him has nothing to do with hiding Ki. But ... given the situations you described, Freezer obviously is able to regulate that output to a certain extent. Others (like the Ginyu Force) are not, since their power levels didn't change whether in tranquility or in battle mode. |
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Post by Griffith on Apr 29, 2017 9:18:03 GMT
Neither is outright stated to be stronger, but logical conclusionsand second hand sources (alongside Frieza's claim) points towards the son being mightier. Given that we know what freeza's self described "true form" looks like... and given that we know cold looks exactly like a particular state of reduction that freeza can transform himself into then I have to admit that it is a pretty damn logical conclusion that cold is in a state of reduction and that his "true form" looks a whole lot closer to his own son's. That is just an assumption but one hell of an obvious one. Ummm... Meet Lord Chilled, a Frost Demon designed by Akira Toriyama. By all rights it seems that Lord Chilled should be in his first form, heck he looks alot like Freeza in his first form, but nope that is his finial form, his true form. So, appearances are not a determination for whenever or not someone's in their true form. |
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Post by fooshin on Apr 29, 2017 15:14:45 GMT
Ummm... Meet Lord Chilled, a Frost Demon designed by Akira toriyama Gog, please note you're in the dragon ball/dragon ball z section. All the newer wanderings of akira's mind belong in the super/gt section. I'm talking about a few pages of separation in dragon ball z and you're bringing up some special from many years later (2011) from a guy that's clearly having trouble remembering anything from his original work. Hopefully someone doesn't ask akira on his death bed who his favorite sayain was and he says "krillin" because then it's cannon and we're all screwed then aren't we? |
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Post by SSJ4 GOD Multi on Apr 29, 2017 17:02:09 GMT
Given that we know what freeza's self described "true form" looks like... and given that we know cold looks exactly like a particular state of reduction that freeza can transform himself into then I have to admit that it is a pretty damn logical conclusion that cold is in a state of reduction and that his "true form" looks a whole lot closer to his own son's. That is just an assumption but one hell of an obvious one. Ummm... Meet Lord Chilled, a Frost Demon designed by Akira Toriyama. By all rights it seems that Lord Chilled should be in his first form, heck he looks alot like Freeza in his first form, but nope that is his finial form, his true form. So, appearances are not a determination for whenever or not someone's in their true form. I can see why a lot of members here are saying this debate doesn't matter. Even if Frieza was stronger than Cold or Cold was stronger than Frieza, the two can't be far from each other since Frieza let his father come with him as back up to beat the super saiyan. Though I think that Cold being stronger than Frieza makes more sense, Frieza and Cold didn't have a big role when going to Earth. They came, they got beaten by this new badass super saiyan then he got beat by theses new badass androids, only for them to be beaten by the new badass bio-android, do you see a pattern? A lot of people would have wanted Frieza to die on Namek and Cold invades Earth alone or with his son Cooler to take revenge. Would have made a much more interesting story for us to see. So I can understand why many are saying its irrelevant. Also the Lord Chilled thing, comparing Chilled to the main story is like comparing Kuriza to the story. Their both irrelevant to main story. Hell even Kuriza makes more sense than Chilled because he actually has a reduction and final stage. Chilled's only purpose was to make the Bardock fantards happy so that their rouge saiyan can become a super saiyan and finally defeat "Frieza." Also if you legit want to use Chilled, you could say that the reduction stages were never invented yet since this is so long ago in the past. Its obvious the future generation of Frost Demons are MUCH stronger than he was since he was defeated by a Bardock who had a power level of over 10,000 and became a super saiyan which would place him around First Form Frieza level. This is why I love Multiverse so much because characters that didn't have any purpose, little story for themselves, and character design looks ridiculous they improve the characters greatly. Two prime examples are King Cold being the "true" ruler of the Trade Organization and being far stronger than both if his sons and Chilled's new design and backstory in Hanasia, Queen of the Saiyans fanfic. He looks so badass and died a VERY gruesome way. ![]() Attachments:
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Post by fooshin on Apr 29, 2017 17:55:30 GMT
I'm not saying the chilled example is without merit as there are several variations of what could have been the authors intent with this species at the time he wrote freeza's saga. Unless there's some hidden notes or interview he did around that time then we will never really know. Yeah, it would have been kinda cool to have cold come back and be even stronger and set off a whole new epic battle but I'm guessing that after taking freeza through such a huge battle I'm sure the author felt like we've had plenty enough of this type of villian and it was past time to move on to something different. I think more than anything this was just a way to introduce trunks as a badass and he didn't really put a ton of thought into cold who he probably just dreamed up the week before.
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 29, 2017 19:13:53 GMT
Again allow me to state my earlier post; it ultimately does not matter who is stronger or weaker!
Whether Frieza was superior or inferior to King Cold, both were easily killed by Future Trunks without either having the time to properly demonstrate their powers. Clearly Akira Toriyama didn't care since he offed both villains in a heartbeat, so it will be pointless for us fans to argue over a topic that will forever remain ambiguous. Perhaps Frieza was stronger thanks to his mecha enhancements and his unseen 100% state. Perhaps King Cold is stronger and could transform at least two more times to augment his power. But in the end, we will never truly know and lets stop beating on a dead horse when the veterinarian (Akira Toriyama) left it to die by itself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 19:59:31 GMT
By all rights it seems that Lord Chilled should be in his first form, heck he looks alot like Freeza in his first form, but nope that is his finial form, his true form. So, appearances are not a determination for whenever or not someone's in their true form. Out of the five Frost Demons Toriyama drew after Freeza, three of them had a final form like Freeza. Toriyama gave Frost the same forms as Freeza and he's from a completely different universe. If King Cold's sons and grandson have a similar looking final form, King Cold would more like have that form than Frost who isn't related to them. Toriyama said that Freeza and King Cold were mutants so he may have intended for Chilled to be an average, every day Frost Demon. |
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Post by fooshin on Apr 29, 2017 22:15:38 GMT
Again allow me to state my earlier post; it ultimately does not matter who is stronger or weaker! Whether Frieza was superior or inferior to King Cold, both were easily killed by Future Trunks without either having the time to properly demonstrate their powers. Clearly Akira Toriyama didn't care since he offed both villains in a heartbeat, so it will be pointless for us fans to argue over a topic that will forever remain ambiguous. Perhaps Frieza was stronger thanks to his mecha enhancements and his unseen 100% state. Perhaps King Cold is stronger and could transform at least two more times to augment his power. But in the end, we will never truly know and lets stop beating on a dead horse when the veterinarian (Akira Toriyama) left it to die by itself. Half the dbm threads don't matter and 100% of the db/dbz threads don't matter. There isn't a horse in here that isn't dead and in need of a good beating. |
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 30, 2017 0:28:14 GMT
Again allow me to state my earlier post; it ultimately does not matter who is stronger or weaker! Whether Frieza was superior or inferior to King Cold, both were easily killed by Future Trunks without either having the time to properly demonstrate their powers. Clearly Akira Toriyama didn't care since he offed both villains in a heartbeat, so it will be pointless for us fans to argue over a topic that will forever remain ambiguous. Perhaps Frieza was stronger thanks to his mecha enhancements and his unseen 100% state. Perhaps King Cold is stronger and could transform at least two more times to augment his power. But in the end, we will never truly know and lets stop beating on a dead horse when the veterinarian (Akira Toriyama) left it to die by itself. Half the dbm threads don't matter and 100% of the db/dbz threads don't matter. There isn't a horse in here that isn't dead and in need of a good beating. Perhaps if you had read my post you would realize what I was talking about. It is simply impossible to judge which character is stronger since not enough evidence is thrown out there to even give us a clear rating on who is stronger or not. Besides the guides and statements made from sources that not directly made from Akira himself, it all ultimately comes from a second hand sources. And based on my knowledge, Akira never made a statement on who is superior to the other. For all I care either one of the frost demons is stronger than the other, but you will have a eternal battle on your hands since nothing is conclusive. And as for the threads made in the multiverse and db/dbz sections, that is your opinion and nothing more. All I am saying is that if you want to argue over something that will never be truly answered then be my guess. I enjoy some peoples arguments, but I am also providing mine that nobody is either truly right or wrong based on the topic itself. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 30, 2017 1:14:55 GMT
Xeno Black is kinda right. One good way to gauge King Cold's strenght would have been if Goku had fought both of them. We have plenty of information of how Freeza did against Goku in Namek, but King Cold was basically introduced to be killed. The most likely answer is that they were nearly the same strength just so Trunks could kill "two Freezas" and be doubly badass. Given that Trunks is the only measuring bar we can compare both of them... safest answer is indeed their powers are nearly equal. None of them was able to accomplish anything against Trunks. Both died miserably. However... having said all of that... I think Freeza is only able to reach King Cold's power due to the Cybernetic implants. If Namek Freeza fought against Trunks, he'd have died by sneezing. So for me it goes something like this: Mecha Freeza = King Cold > Namek Freeza
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 30, 2017 2:35:28 GMT
Also, this particular screenshot (was this anime only?):  Both of them were in flaccid state. None of them were in fully erected buffed form. Implying Freeza was "heavily suppressed" while ignoring King Cold was just chilling relaxed in his throne and drinking wine is nothing more than selective evidence. Also, the "one with the ki so much larger than his?" is pretty much straightforwardly saying King Cold's non-existent penis is bigger (at least in flaccid state) |
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Post by fooshin on Apr 30, 2017 4:58:07 GMT
so it will be pointless for us fans to argue over a topic that will forever remain ambiguous... But in the end, we will never truly know and lets stop beating on a dead horse when the veterinarian (Akira Toriyama) left it to die by itself. I did read your post and this is the part I take issue with. If you had read mine you would know that i agree with your point of view that there will probably never be an answer but thats not really the point. Often times in seemingly pointless discussions like this there are little details that can be picked up like I didn't know what skar said about the 5 demons akira drew and I didn't know much about chilled and I saw a new angle to how the demons could have evolved that is possible because of it. I also went back to the manga to brush up and I realized that when they were talking about freeza's pl they actually didn't know it was freeza's because I realized that sensing ki doesn't work that way. They can only sense the pl and whether it's a good guys or a bad guys but not someone specific. This was pointed out later when they thought goku was fighting but it turned out to be trunks. I understand your frustration that a couple of the posters were getting worked up about their point of view but don't take your frustration out on the thread itself. Debating ambiguous issues like this one are a big part of what this forum is all about. |
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Post by Xeno Black on May 1, 2017 2:41:11 GMT
so it will be pointless for us fans to argue over a topic that will forever remain ambiguous... But in the end, we will never truly know and lets stop beating on a dead horse when the veterinarian (Akira Toriyama) left it to die by itself. I did read your post and this is the part I take issue with. If you had read mine you would know that i agree with your point of view that there will probably never be an answer but thats not really the point. Often times in seemingly pointless discussions like this there are little details that can be picked up like I didn't know what skar said about the 5 demons akira drew and I didn't know much about chilled and I saw a new angle to how the demons could have evolved that is possible because of it. I also went back to the manga to brush up and I realized that when they were talking about freeza's pl they actually didn't know it was freeza's because I realized that sensing ki doesn't work that way. They can only sense the pl and whether it's a good guys or a bad guys but not someone specific. This was pointed out later when they thought goku was fighting but it turned out to be trunks. I understand your frustration that a couple of the posters were getting worked up about their point of view but don't take your frustration out on the thread itself. Debating ambiguous issues like this one are a big part of what this forum is all about. I did not realized you actually agreed with me. For that I am sorry, and yes I was getting frustrated with the thread itself since it is impossible to get a clear conclusion for such a discussion. Even harder discussions such as "which was the strongest Buu" or "was Super Perfect Cell equal to Gohan" can at least be somewhat answered since some evidence can be made to support your arguments. Here though, it is all but speculation where your honest opinion is your strongest piece of evidence. Again I enjoy some posters comments, but it will go on forever since nobody is neither right or wrong, which can become disastrous if somebody feels like their opinion is not being respected enough. So far everyone has been doing great, but you never know. |
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Post by fooshin on May 1, 2017 2:49:44 GMT
Oh yeah, one other thing I learned when I was brushing up on this topic is that when vegeta asked krillin to kick his ass he claimed you can't get a zenkai by trying to kill yourself. This is a bit strange seeing as that's basically how cell got his.
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Post by Solus on May 1, 2017 13:18:13 GMT
Oh yeah, one other thing I learned when I was brushing up on this topic is that when vegeta asked krillin to kick his ass he claimed you can't get a zenkai by trying to kill yourself. This is a bit strange seeing as that's basically how cell got his. I think the difference hereby is, that trying to inflict damage to yourself to the point where you would get a Zenkai will not trigger the emotions you need. In my oppinion you need to believe that you will die - which is not the case if you yourself can control the inicted damage. Cell was surprised he survived which means, he really thought he would die. |
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