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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 16:03:59 GMT
Also, this particular screenshot (was this anime only?): Yeah, that moment only ever appeared in the anime. Meaning that in a resting state Cold is superior to his son. But, that statement is meaningless as for all we know Mecha Freeza isn't even at one percent, but that does work in favor of King Cold. Also, did you just assume his lack of gender?
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Post by Android 13 on May 2, 2017 13:17:10 GMT
Also, this particular screenshot (was this anime only?): Yeah, that moment only ever appeared in the anime. Meaning that in a resting state Cold is superior to his son. But, that statement is meaningless as for all we know Mecha Freeza isn't even at one percent, but that does work in favor of King Cold. Also, did you just assume his lack of gender? "OH, DON'T YOU BE GENDERING ME!" My opinion is that yes, Frieza was stronger than King Cold. Not by a big margin, but still stronger. And nothing suggest that King Cold can transform in the manga. So the moment a debate starts about that, it's already head-canon.
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Post by fooshin on May 2, 2017 14:30:37 GMT
And nothing suggest that King Cold can transform in the manga. So the moment a debate starts about that, it's already head-canon. As I recall, when raditz first appeared in the series nothing suggested he could transform into a great ape. Oh, yeah, he did have that tail and we know goku had one so it makes sense that he could do the same... but wait. What if goku was a special mutant and he was the only sayian who could do it? Well, at that time there was no proof raditz could go ape but every reader made that reasonable assumption the moment they saw him. The visual evidence suggests that cold was in a second form just as the tail suggests that raditz was just like goku. Possessing the tail suggests the ability to transform just as appearing to look the same as a reduced state of freeza suggests the ability to transform further.
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Post by Android 13 on May 2, 2017 15:32:52 GMT
And nothing suggest that King Cold can transform in the manga. So the moment a debate starts about that, it's already head-canon. As I recall, when raditz first appeared in the series nothing suggested he could transform into a great ape. Oh, yeah, he did have that tail and we know goku had one so it makes sense that he could do the same... but wait. What if goku was a special mutant and he was the only sayian who could do it? Well, at that time there was no proof raditz could go ape but every reader made that reasonable assumption the moment they saw him. The visual evidence suggests that cold was in a second form just as the tail suggests that raditz was just like goku. Possessing the tail suggests the ability to transform just as appearing to look the same as a reduced state of freeza suggests the ability to transform further. Unless Toriyama implies or Cold outright transforms, he can't do it. Did Raditz transform? Did Nappa transform? Yes they could, but they didn't. It's all writing.
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Post by Griffith on May 3, 2017 0:00:47 GMT
Yeah, that moment only ever appeared in the anime. Meaning that in a resting state Cold is superior to his son. But, that statement is meaningless as for all we know Mecha Freeza isn't even at one percent, but that does work in favor of King Cold. Also, did you just assume his lack of gender? "OH, DON'T YOU BE GENDERING ME!" My opinion is that yes, Frieza was stronger than King Cold. Not by a big margin, but still stronger. And nothing suggest that King Cold can transform in the manga. So the moment a debate starts about that, it's already head-canon. Let us talk about how much the Frost Demons clearly have functioning penises.
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Post by Xeno Black on May 3, 2017 1:03:57 GMT
"OH, DON'T YOU BE GENDERING ME!" My opinion is that yes, Frieza was stronger than King Cold. Not by a big margin, but still stronger. And nothing suggest that King Cold can transform in the manga. So the moment a debate starts about that, it's already head-canon. Let us talk about how much the Frost Demons clearly have functioning penises. What the fuck. XD It is possible that they do, but is hidden inside of their bodies like what some reptiles have.
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Post by kinnikuman on May 3, 2017 5:33:51 GMT
Let us talk about how much the Frost Demons clearly have functioning penises. What the fuck. XD It is possible that they do, but is hidden inside of their bodies like what some reptiles have. What if the Tails are Sex organs... Krillin is a monster then.
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Post by Azoth on May 4, 2017 0:21:49 GMT
Let us talk about how much the Frost Demons clearly have functioning penises. What the fuck. XD It is possible that they do, but is hidden inside of their bodies like what some reptiles have. This is my headcanon, btw. Everything's inside and not usually visible outside of certain circumstances, so they don't worry much about clothes.
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Post by The Masterman on May 4, 2017 6:44:10 GMT
What the fuck. XD It is possible that they do, but is hidden inside of their bodies like what some reptiles have. This is my headcanon, btw. Everything's inside and not usually visible outside of certain circumstances, so they don't worry much about clothes. Then why was first form Frieza wearing underwear? God I love this forum...
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Post by Azoth on May 4, 2017 11:36:03 GMT
This is my headcanon, btw. Everything's inside and not usually visible outside of certain circumstances, so they don't worry much about clothes. Then why was first form Frieza wearing underwear? God I love this forum... So people would stop looking for his junk.
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Post by Solus on May 21, 2017 16:02:25 GMT
This is my headcanon, btw. Everything's inside and not usually visible outside of certain circumstances, so they don't worry much about clothes. Then why was first form Frieza wearing underwear? God I love this forum... Maybe for him not to get cold ... Humans invented clothes for the purpose of warming them, not hiding their genitals. But I always wondered if Frost Demons do feel shame for their bodies like humans do.
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Post by Xeno Black on May 21, 2017 21:08:13 GMT
Then why was first form Frieza wearing underwear? God I love this forum... Maybe for him not to get cold ... Humans invented clothes for the purpose of warming them, not hiding their genitals. But I always wondered if Frost Demons do feel shame for their bodies like humans do. Doubt it. Even if Frieza's junk was swinging between his legs [if he even has any, unless it is his tail], I just see him not caring in the slightest since his final form is exposed for everyone to gaze at. Same for Cooler, though King Cold may be a exception. Then again if we ever saw any female members, they might prefer to be clothed at all times unlike the males.
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Post by Solus on May 21, 2017 21:33:43 GMT
Maybe for him not to get cold ... Humans invented clothes for the purpose of warming them, not hiding their genitals. But I always wondered if Frost Demons do feel shame for their bodies like humans do. Doubt it. Even if Frieza's junk was swinging between his legs [if he even has any, unless it is his tail], I just see him not caring in the slightest since his final form is exposed for everyone to gaze at. Same for Cooler, though King Cold may be a exception. Then again if we ever saw any female members, they might prefer to be clothed at all times unlike the males. Better ask Roketto then ... I'm sure, she has some uninteresting theories about that. At least in DBM there are no female Frost Demons, as they are in general asexual. So maybe it's just not neccessary for them to cover something up. Edit: In deed she has. And it is just as fangirl-y as I thought. She might have a point, though. "Theory: it's because they're viewed as living gods. No, really. They don't need clothes for anything other than displaying status, & they're recognizable in their higher forms as unique individuals anyway, so there's no point. They're not even considered people at this point, so normal laws of social etiquette can be flaunted if they wish. This also increases their "otherness," & sets them apart as something above normal mortals. This is cultivated imagery on their part."
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Post by Xeno Black on May 23, 2017 4:34:57 GMT
Gonna add my 2 cents to this topic even though it seems a bit dead...
I think Frieza was stronger than Cold when they arrived on Earth, but I think Cold is quite a bit stronger than Frieza when both are at maximum. Honestly, I never understood why people think Cold's second form is anywhere near equivalent to Frieza's Final Form. I've seen power level readings (fan estimates) of Frieza's power being 120,000,000 and Cold's being 80,000,000 (in his second form). Honestly I think 8,000,000 would have been pushing it but eh, I still think it'd be plausible...
As for Vegeta's line, I don't really think it necessarily implies he's on Frieza's level. It sounds a bit like it sure, but to me, it sounds more like "Forget Frieza, I already knew he was insanely powerful, but who does this other insanely powerful energy I sense belong to..?" It's probably safe to assume both were exponentially stronger than Vegeta when he said that, so given the line itself I don't think it's too far-fetched to say he was more astonished at another being that he somehow didn't know about being that powerful.
Edit: Oh wait fuck I'm mentally retarded, blind, and my IQ is 3. I'm gonna highlight my stupidity real quick and put it in italics/underline it because I deserve endless ridicule.
Just to prove my retardation, here is an actual picture I took of myself.
AND as for Gohan's line... hard to say. On one hand it makes sense that even in Frieza's Mecha form he wouldn't be near his 100% form's power and since Gohan could sense his power level at that point on Namek, I could see that being the case. But on the other, he could have been simply referring to Frieza suppressing his power so he could save it for when Goku arrived, and not necessarily controlling his Ki to make it appear lower than it really is (what need would he have for him to even want to do that?).
I couldn't resist. XD And feel free to make fun of my typo typing ass since I definitely deserve that much lol.
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Post by Axalon on May 23, 2017 5:00:24 GMT
But on the other, he could have been simply referring to Frieza suppressing his power so he could save it for when Goku arrived, and not necessarily controlling his Ki to make it appear lower than it really is (what need would he have for him to even want to do that?).
I don't see why he'd feel the need to suppress his power (unless he feared wearing himself out before he even got there). If anything he'd want to RADIATE it. The whole point of him beating Goku to Earth was so that when he arrived he'd find Frieza laughing amidst the bloodied and broken bodies of his friends before the rematch happened. Were it not for Instant Transmission/Future Trunks that's likely exactly what would've happened as well. What better way to get some pre-fight torture in than by broadcasting across the ki spectrum that he's on Earth and that Goku seemingly can't stop him?
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Post by Son Pan on May 23, 2017 22:54:57 GMT
What the hell I'll throw my two cents in here as well. I side with Freeza being stronger than King Cold. Toriyama writes at the seat of his pants so it is entirely possible that when he wrote Freeza was the strongest in the universe that he hadn't thought of King Cold beyond Freeza passing reference on Goku being the first person to really cause him harm in his true form since his parents. Younger generation usually surpasses the older one in DB (before Toriyama abandoned that idea lol). This was from the man who wrote that Vegeta surpassed his own father while he was a child. Freeza being stronger than Cold wouldn't surprised me or feel out of place.
I never bought the whole King Cold has to be in his second form and he could transform two more times like Freeza. To me we never saw enough of Freeza's people to judge how their appearances vary. Cooler does look similar to Freeza, but without seeing their mother it is hard to tell if the sons didn't just inherent their looks from her rather than Cold. It is equally as likely that Freeza based his second form off of his father as it is that Cold is in his second form IMO. Freeza and Cold didn't appear to have a bad relationship. They seemed to get along well from what little we saw of them. Freeza basing his second form of his father could be a sign of how much he respects his dad.
Even evil tyrants can love or respect someone. Freeza and Cold having a functioning son and father relationship without Freeza trying to kill his old man for the throne. It actually give him a more layers. Cooler could be that way as well if we want to throw him in. Personally I think the multiple reduction forms were Freeza's signature. Freeza being a prodigy probably saw his power advance so quickly that his body wasn't ready for it, so he had to use three reduction forms to manage his power better. If King Cold or Cooler had reduction forms I think they had one and they eventually trained their bodies to handle the power better and discard them. Freeza was the hold out and since he was so much stronger than most other races in his weakest form he never saw any incentive to train to better control his power. That goes with Cooler's resentment of Freeza being the lazy spoiled brother, while he was the hardworking and more responsible one well.
I put stock into Gohan's statement. There is just no reason to bring up Freeza isn't at his strongest if Freeza isn't suppressing his power. Since we didn't get any statements to indicate if Cold was holding back a lot of his power or if he was in a reduction form I tend to favor Cold wasn't hiding much else. Freeza at least got a statement that he could get stronger if he needed to. I figured Freeza suppressing his power again because he didn't want to over strain his body with his max power and eat away at his power like it did on Namek. If he was half strength of lower to play it safe than it is possible Freeza wasn't close to his max when he landed on Earth.
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Post by Griffith on May 24, 2017 0:25:02 GMT
If King Cold or Cooler had reduction forms I think they had one and they eventually trained their bodies to handle the power better and discard them. I think this is something that isn't really well understood in Dragon Ball Fandom as a whole. Coola does indeed have Suppression forms. In fact we even know how many of them he has, two considering he even refers to the state he is in as his third transformation state. Which implies that he has lower forms than the one we see him in.
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Post by Son Pan on May 25, 2017 21:28:31 GMT
If King Cold or Cooler had reduction forms I think they had one and they eventually trained their bodies to handle the power better and discard them. I think this is something that isn't really well understood in Dragon Ball Fandom as a whole. Coola does indeed have Suppression forms. In fact we even know how many of them he has, two considering he even refers to the state he is in as his third transformation state. Which implies that he has lower forms than the one we see him in. I thought that was an English dub line only, because the way Cooler worded he made it sound like his true form was a transformed state. We know that is not true, because Freeza's fourth form is his true form and untransformed state. Cooler saying he was in fourth or third transformation is wrong. That is why I didn't take that line into consideration for Cooler having a set number of reduction forms or if he had them at all.
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Post by Griffith on May 25, 2017 22:45:03 GMT
I think this is something that isn't really well understood in Dragon Ball Fandom as a whole. Coola does indeed have Suppression forms. In fact we even know how many of them he has, two considering he even refers to the state he is in as his third transformation state. Which implies that he has lower forms than the one we see him in. I thought that was an English dub line only, because the way Cooler worded he made it sound like his true form was a transformed state. We know that is not true, because Freeza's fourth form is his true form and untransformed state. Cooler saying he was in fourth or third transformation is wrong. That is why I didn't take that line into consideration for Cooler having a set number of reduction forms or if he had them at all. Even the Daizenshuu itself calls Coola, and Freeza in their third transformation state. It does make sense when you consider it like this, he had to transform into that state. So, it's his third transformation state. Or, for all we know he's actually a Chilled in a sense and all of his forms are augmentations. I don't think ignoring something about a character in the only film he appeared in, on a discussion on him is particularly a good idea in any sense of the word.
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