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Post by christhesaiyan on Apr 30, 2017 17:48:13 GMT
Which character in the DB franchise would you say has the most potential?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 21:02:12 GMT
Zeno would have the most potential since he's the strongest being in the multiverse. I don't know how he obtained his power and he probably didn't have to work that much for it but technically no one could claim they have more potential unless they eventually surpass him. Not including Zeno, Grand Priest, and his children, I think the characters with the most potential are Uub, Gohan, and Super Buu. Originally, we assumed Uub's potential was Kid Buu's power but it wouldn't make sense for Goku to get excited against someone that much weaker than him so maybe they'll use Kid Buu's potential as a starting point and have Uub get a trillion times stronger. Gohan because they always talk about his potential. If Goku and Vegeta are two of the most powerful mortals in the multiverse, Gohan and Uub could end up being the two most powerful mortals of all and the closest mortals to a God of Destruction. Super Buu because he could continue absorbing people but it depends if there's a limit to how many people he could absorb.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Apr 30, 2017 21:18:40 GMT
I'm inclined to think Evil Buu as well due to his absorption ability, although Good Buu could rival his potential if he wasn't limited by his morals. Cell is probably second in line considering he never bothers to train at all and still rivals SSJ2 Gohan, on top of the fact that he knows a lot of the character's techniques and can absorb people as well.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 30, 2017 22:38:59 GMT
If Cell has the same potential as Frieza thanks to DBS, then I'd say Cell if he trained.
Frieza went from being weaker than a fresh SS1 Goku to stronger than Buu-saga Vegito and SSB Goku. IN FOUR MONTHS. He gained enough power to give Beerus an entertaining fight at the very least, given that he woke up specifically just to see SSG, which has since been eclipsed in power. Imagine if he had a solid year of training. Or ten. If Cell proportionally gained as much strength as Frieza does from training then Platinum Super Perfect Cell would be quite the monster.
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Post by Griffith on Apr 30, 2017 22:47:40 GMT
Freeza, his baby gains enabled him to leap frog to god tier in four months. I don't believe Cell would have the same proportions if he trained as he's not made completely of Freeza.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 30, 2017 22:58:56 GMT
Freeza, his baby gains enabled him to leap frog to god tier in four months. I don't believe Cell would have the same proportions if he trained as he's not made completely of Freeza. True, he's also made of people like Vegeta--who very quickly went from SS2 power (stronger than SS3 Goku when he was extremely pissed off) to SSB power in what, six months? Without a silly god ritual even!
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Post by Griffith on Apr 30, 2017 23:29:31 GMT
Freeza, his baby gains enabled him to leap frog to god tier in four months. I don't believe Cell would have the same proportions if he trained as he's not made completely of Freeza. True, he's also made of people like Vegeta--who very quickly went from SS2 power (stronger than SS3 Goku when he was extremely pissed off) to SSB power in what, six months? Without a silly god ritual even! If I remember correctly Vegeta was only capable of getting to god level all because of Whis's training. He would never have been capable of achieving such a feat on his own. And even then he's not made up entirely of Vegeta.
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Post by Axalon on May 1, 2017 0:01:14 GMT
True, he's also made of people like Vegeta--who very quickly went from SS2 power (stronger than SS3 Goku when he was extremely pissed off) to SSB power in what, six months? Without a silly god ritual even! If I remember correctly Vegeta was only capable of getting to god level all because of Whis's training. He would never have been capable of achieving such a feat on his own. And even then he's not made up entirely of Vegeta. But he has the potential to do so, no? If he didn't he never would've gotten there even with Whis, and that's what we're talking about right? Potential. The point though is that Cell is comprised of individuals who all radically increase their power in hilariously short amounts of time, due to the fact that they all have great potential. I see no reason why Cell likewise wouldn't have the shared potential of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and King Cold when he's taken so many other aspects from them as well, and genetically is literally made up of the same DNA that they possess. You keep saying "Well he's not just Frieza!" and "He's not just Vegeta!" and you're right. Because he's made from ALL OF THEM. That is why Cell was so lethal a construct. He was everything strong about the heroes and their greatest enemies turned against them, while eliminating as many weaknesses as possible.
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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 0:17:35 GMT
If I remember correctly Vegeta was only capable of getting to god level all because of Whis's training. He would never have been capable of achieving such a feat on his own. And even then he's not made up entirely of Vegeta. But he has the potential to do so, no? If he didn't he never would've gotten there even with Whis, and that's what we're talking about right? Potential. The point though is that Cell is comprised of individuals who all radically increase their power in hilariously short amounts of time, due to the fact that they all have great potential. I see no reason why Cell likewise wouldn't have the shared potential of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and King Cold when he's taken so many other aspects from them as well, and genetically is literally made up of the same DNA that they possess. You keep saying "Well he's not just Frieza!" and "He's not just Vegeta!" and you're right. Because he's made from ALL OF THEM. That is why Cell was so lethal a construct. He was everything strong about the heroes and their greatest enemies turned against them, while eliminating as many weaknesses as possible. He doesn't have the potential to get God Ki. On his own Vegeta would never have even gotten that strength, so Vegeta doesn't have the potential to get God Ki by just training on his own, but Whis's training is capable of enabling you to get God Ki. Because, that was the only way Vegeta ever actually got God Ki. So tough shit having Cell manage to get the power on his own. Except, only one of those individuals is capable of getting retardedly OP power boosts, and he only makes up what, one fifth of Cell. The rest are worthless nobodies in comparison with potential. Hmmm, what do you mean? Should I rephrase myself? What I meant to say is that Cell is not entirely Freeza. Remember he still has to share DNA with four other fighters who are significantly worse potential wise. And heck even if he has the full potential of Freeza he'd only be slight, a tiny smidgen more powerful than him. As he only has his potential + four others who are as I repeated before hand significantly worse without the God ritual, and Whis's training.
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Post by Axalon on May 1, 2017 0:40:34 GMT
He doesn't have the potential to get God Ki. On his own Vegeta would never have even gotten that strength, so Vegeta doesn't have the potential to get God Ki by just training on his own, but Whis's training is capable of enabling you to get God Ki. Because, that was the only way Vegeta ever actually got God Ki. I'm willing to let this point go, because I honestly don't understand how Vegeta even got the form. Half the time under Whis they were flailing around in weighted fatsuits or doing a lot of push-ups or changing Beerus' pillow mid-nap in a maid outfit or something when they weren't getting whacked upside the head while Whis drew symbols on them with a marker. If that's all his training consists of then it's laughable that they never attained it earlier. Perhaps it has something to do with where they're fighting, Beerus' home, as opposed to how they're training. Good thing he's part Frieza then huh, who has regular ki capable of reaching and even surpassing the godly ki of SSB Goku/Vegeta by beating up someone on Zarbon's level for four months. Compared to Frieza, yes, they have less potential. But Cold aside they all have great potential, and he's made of all of them. Yes. We know. What do fractions have to do with it? He's only 1/5th Frieza sure, but his power is easily hundreds of times stronger than Frieza, and was individually stronger than every other fighter besides SS2 Gohan during his day. So why would he only be a "smidgen" higher than Golden Frieza when he's proportionally vastly stronger as it is without a single day of training? There's nothing suggesting that he's being held back by anyone's DNA, since he takes the best qualities of his genetic donors and uses them as one being. Why wouldn't Frieza's potential be part of that?
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Post by christhesaiyan on May 1, 2017 0:45:59 GMT
But he has the potential to do so, no? If he didn't he never would've gotten there even with Whis, and that's what we're talking about right? Potential. The point though is that Cell is comprised of individuals who all radically increase their power in hilariously short amounts of time, due to the fact that they all have great potential. I see no reason why Cell likewise wouldn't have the shared potential of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and King Cold when he's taken so many other aspects from them as well, and genetically is literally made up of the same DNA that they possess. You keep saying "Well he's not just Frieza!" and "He's not just Vegeta!" and you're right. Because he's made from ALL OF THEM. That is why Cell was so lethal a construct. He was everything strong about the heroes and their greatest enemies turned against them, while eliminating as many weaknesses as possible. He doesn't have the potential to get God Ki. On his own Vegeta would never have even gotten that strength, so Vegeta doesn't have the potential to get God Ki by just training on his own, but Whis's training is capable of enabling you to get God Ki. Because, that was the only way Vegeta ever actually got God Ki. So tough shit having Cell manage to get the power on his own. Except, only one of those individuals is capable of getting retardedly OP power boosts, and he only makes up what, one fifth of Cell. The rest are worthless nobodies in comparison with potential. Hmmm, what do you mean? Should I rephrase myself? What I meant to say is that Cell is not entirely Freeza. Remember he still has to share DNA with four other fighters who are significantly worse potential wise. And heck even if he has the full potential of Freeza he'd only be slight, a tiny smidgen more powerful than him. As he only has his potential + four others who are as I repeated before hand significantly worse without the God ritual, and Whis's training. We should take into account that Cell has a regeneration ability+zenkai+plus the ability to take on a SSJ-like form (the buffed up one) on top of his perfect form, AND on top of whatever minimal potential Frieza's DNA offers. We could say Cell's potential is way less than Frieza's because they don't share enough DNA, but by design Cell takes on the best traits of his components. Imagine a Frost Demon who could heal himself and go SSJ (although Cell only entered a handicapped version of the form and didn't actually unlock SSJ). Imagine the most feared traits of your enemies and most remarkable traits of your allies were all mixed into one entity. Cell may not be Frieza and may have the DNA of weaker races but he carries their best attributes as well, which is why he was so hard to kill. We can't forget either that Cell himself is naturally stronger than Frieza, and neither have ever trained a day in their lives (up until Super that is). It's a similar case of Saiyans being naturally stronger than Humans. Considering that it's very hard to claim that Frieza is definitely potentially stronger. I'm not saying you're wrong, but we can't just up and say Frieza has more potential than Cell when we have absolutely no idea how strong Cell would be if he did bother to train.
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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 1:03:14 GMT
I'm willing to let this point go, because I honestly don't understand how Vegeta even got the form. Half the time under Whis they were flailing around in weighted fatsuits or doing a lot of push-ups or changing Beerus' pillow mid-nap in a maid outfit or something when they weren't getting whacked upside the head while Whis drew symbols on them with a marker. If that's all his training consists of then it's laughable that they never attained it earlier. Perhaps it has something to do with where they're fighting, Beerus' home, as opposed to how they're training. Good thing he's part Frieza then huh, who has regular ki capable of reaching and even surpassing the godly ki of SSB Goku/Vegeta by beating up someone on Zarbon's level for four months. Compared to Frieza, yes, they have less potential. But Cold aside they all have great potential, and he's made of all of them. Yes. We know. What do fractions have to do with it? He's only 1/5th Frieza sure, but his power is easily hundreds of times stronger than Frieza, and was individually stronger than every other fighter besides SS2 Gohan during his day. So why would he only be a "smidgen" higher than Golden Frieza when he's proportionally vastly stronger as it is without a single day of training? There's nothing suggesting that he's being held back by anyone's DNA, since he takes the best qualities of his genetic donors and uses them as one being. Why wouldn't Frieza's potential be part of that? Hmmm, it could possibly be Beerus's planet, but they were trained by W his.
Cool, that was my point all along.
But, their potential is so little in comparison to Freeza's that I'm struggling to find a way to justify how theirs even matters in comparison. Also, why are you leaving Cold out in the rain. By Toriyama's own word all of Freeza's family is amazing, it's just that Freeza's in an entirely different league in comparison.
Because, Cell might have had a higher starting point, but he has less potential than Freeza himself, or he has slightly more. It's like Gohan and well anyone in Dragon Ball, repeatedly he was stated to have the most potential out of everyone, even in the face of people like Cell and Buu. Heck, even if he's not being held back by everyone elses DNA why does it even matter?
Everyone's potential in comparison is hilariously small in comparison to Freeza's it's like adding multiple drips into an ocean of potential, neat you have all this extra potential. Sucks that they all suck in comparison to just one of these potentials.
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Post by Axalon on May 1, 2017 2:07:39 GMT
But, their potential is so little in comparison to Freeza's that I'm struggling to find a way to justify how theirs even matters in comparison. Because he's comprised of beings who all have rapid potential growth? Frieza may outshadow the others but saying Goku and Vegeta are worth nothing potential wise simply rings hollow. Surely a being comprised of all these great potential breakers would benefit from the sum of all his parts, no? It means Cell is genetically inclined to be just like them if he put the effort in, because to a great degree he IS them. Meh. If he had more exposure I might like him more. As it is he's there for a few minutes, drinks some wine, then he dies. Wasted potential to the extreme with Cold. Cool cape though. And as we see with Gohan or Frieza, when they take advantage of their potential they eclipse everyone else. Why should Cell be so different if four out of the five notable people he's comprised of are all confirmed potential breakers who go past their limits? I'm not sure what you mean on that "why does it even matter" question. If you mean what do the other people matter that just adds more fuel to the fire that Cell has great potential, even if most of it comes from Frieza, he's genetically guaranteed to have it. If Cell's potential to grow is equal to Frieza's, and Frieza was able to become stronger than SSB in a mere four months, why would Cell, who starts off vastly more powerful, cap out just higher than Frieza or just below Frieza when he's already proportionally far more powerful than the sum of his parts were to begin with? Why would his cap be Frieza's cap when he's made up of Frieza, Goku and Vegeta? Cell's entire gimmick is using and incorporating the best traits of everyone he's made of, and I fail to see why Frieza's potential would suddenly get limited when to a certain degree he's literally the same person, just vastly more powerful and improved upon the original version.
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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 2:48:43 GMT
Because he's comprised of beings who all have rapid potential growth? Frieza may outshadow the others but saying Goku and Vegeta are worth nothing potential wise simply rings hollow. Surely a being comprised of all these great potential breakers would benefit from the sum of all his parts, no? It means Cell is genetically inclined to be just like them if he put the effort in, because to a great degree he IS them. Meh. If he had more exposure I might like him more. As it is he's there for a few minutes, drinks some wine, then he dies. Wasted potential to the extreme with Cold. Cool cape though. And as we see with Gohan or Frieza, when they take advantage of their potential they eclipse everyone else. Why should Cell be so different if four out of the five notable people he's comprised of are all confirmed potential breakers who go past their limits? I'm not sure what you mean on that "why does it even matter" question. If you mean what do the other people matter that just adds more fuel to the fire that Cell has great potential, even if most of it comes from Frieza, he's genetically guaranteed to have it. If Cell's potential to grow is equal to Frieza's, and Frieza was able to become stronger than SSB in a mere four months, why would Cell, who starts off vastly more powerful, cap out just higher than Frieza or just below Frieza when he's already proportionally far more powerful than the sum of his parts were to begin with? Why would his cap be Frieza's cap when he's made up of Frieza, Goku and Vegeta? Cell's entire gimmick is using and incorporating the best traits of everyone he's made of, and I fail to see why Frieza's potential would suddenly get limited when to a certain degree he's literally the same person, just vastly more powerful and improved upon the original version. It took Goku and Vegeta over ten years to get were they are currently. And even then they only ever got their because of stuff like the Time Chamber, Super Saiyan, Sparring Partners, and hard work and dedication. And even then Goku capped out around Kid Buu level, and Vegeta would capped out around SS2 Gohan level. Freeza on the other hand with his newbie gains far surpassed the both of their hard work and effort in four months. Freeza does not simply out shadow everyone, the differences between their potentials is like comparing a candle to a sun. And even then why would Cell be inclined to train, he truly believes that he is the perfect being, and only wants to go around killing everyone. Eh, all of Freeza's family is disappointing, Coola especially. Their all clones of Freeza, but with all the good bits snipped off. Alright then, Cell isn't Goku, Cell isn't Vegeta. Cell's only interest is to go around killing everything, and just fighting everything. He has never shown any interest in actually training. And even then Goku and Vegeta were only capable of surpassing their limits because of time, effort, outside help, and SSJ. The reason why their potentials just simply do not matter in comparison to Freeza's is that Freeza's is an ocean compared to their drips. It simply does not add anything substantial potential wise, heck their potential would be unnoticeable in comparison. Lets say that with four months of training Freeza added like 7000 compared to his one. So Freeza is 7001, Cell with his much higher starting point would start off at lets say 80. Because he's 80 times stronger than Freeza. Now add 7000 and he has a whopping power of 7080. Of course the numbers are no where near the power up they would get but it's only there to show off what the differences between their strengths would be like. Adding Goku, Vegeta, and King Cold to this number wont change it in the slightest, maybe 7080.1 or something. And that gap would slowly decrease as they both train, and reach the full potential of their might. I also fail to see how Cell is an improved version of the original when it comes to potential as he was only made up of the greatest warriors in the galaxy. And what made him deadly was that he was all of them, their power, their techniques, their abilities all rolled up into one incredibly intelligent being.
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Post by Xeno Black on May 1, 2017 2:51:19 GMT
Who the fuck picked Marron? XD
As for the list of characters, the likes of Baby, Broly, Cell, Evil Buu, Frieza, Future Trunks, Captain Ginyu, Gohan, Black / Zamasu, Goku, Janemba, and Hit are your list of individuals with the most potential. However the Grand Priest and Zeno probably have the most overall, but it is extremely hard to gauge their limits if they even have them.
But excluding the priest and Zeno, I will say Cell since he is a perfect bio-android who not only has Frieza's cells, but in addition to saiyan ones as well. His power could probably increase to indefinite levels if he trains and absorbs non-stop.
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Post by Axalon on May 1, 2017 3:08:21 GMT
It took Goku and Vegeta over ten years to get were they are currently. And even then they only ever got their because of stuff like the Time Chamber, Super Saiyan, Sparring Partners, and hard work and dedication. And even then Goku capped out around Kid Buu level, and Vegeta would capped out around SS2 Gohan level. Freeza on the other hand with his newbie gains far surpassed the both of their hard work and effort in four months. Vegeta was hitting SS3 levels as a SS2 prior to getting godly ki. It's a safe bet he could've kept going and not stopped. Not sure why you're comparing him to Gohan. Neither did Frieza. But we aren't talking about actions or intentions. Simply potential. Why would Cell's hypothetical potential be only 7000? Just because Frieza's was there? I've been arguing that Cell would have a proportional increase in strength if his potential for gaining strength was the same as Frieza's, not that the two have the exact same potential and stop at the same place. This is exactly what I've been saying. So a Frieza who knows a lot more techniques and can regenerate from a single cell and grow stronger from it isn't an improved version? He's more than just adding up a bunch of PLs and declaring himself Cell, he's an improved version of his progenitors. If everything else is better, why is his potential limited to what they were at? Why can't someone with Frieza potentials with the ability to zenkai and get even stronger not be considered a "Perfect" version?
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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 4:06:48 GMT
Who the fuck picked Marron? XD Who the fuck didn't?
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Post by Griffith on May 1, 2017 4:11:08 GMT
Vegeta was hitting SS3 levels as a SS2 prior to getting godly ki. It's a safe bet he could've kept going and not stopped. Not sure why you're comparing him to Gohan. Neither did Frieza. But we aren't talking about actions or intentions. Simply potential. Why would Cell's hypothetical potential be only 7000? Just because Frieza's was there? I've been arguing that Cell would have a proportional increase in strength if his potential for gaining strength was the same as Frieza's, not that the two have the exact same potential and stop at the same place. This is exactly what I've been saying. So a Frieza who knows a lot more techniques and can regenerate from a single cell and grow stronger from it isn't an improved version? He's more than just adding up a bunch of PLs and declaring himself Cell, he's an improved version of his progenitors. If everything else is better, why is his potential limited to what they were at? Why can't someone with Frieza potentials with the ability to zenkai and get even stronger not be considered a "Perfect" version? Vegeta only ever got their through rage boosts. And even then it goes against what Akira Toriyama stated about them reaching the peak of their powers. Of course you can just hand wave it away by saying that Vegeta simply managed to tap into the power of SSJ3 and beyond. Of course that is pure head canon, so he just got a rage boost. It wasn't a hypothetical full boost in potential. I was arguing that with the same gains Cell achieves, the level of power he has over Freeza becomes meaningless the stronger both of them become. Eventually the two of them would essentially become equals in strength. You've misunderstood me here, and I apologize that I did not make myself clear enough. Of course, he's better in that regard. But I'm arguing about raw power here. And heck nothing is improved from his predecessors he's just all of them rolled into one. But, with raw power alone Cell isn't that much more powerful than Freeza.
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Post by Axalon on May 1, 2017 22:38:08 GMT
Vegeta only ever got their through rage boosts. And even then it goes against what Akira Toriyama stated about them reaching the peak of their powers. So if someone goes past the peak of their powers, does it not count? Just because he was upset? It wouldn't be the first inconsistency in DB. I dunno if they'd become equals in strength. Even if Cell didn't proportionally gain in potential and instead just received a flat equal rate to Frieza, this is where his Saiyan traits could kick in and give him an edge thanks to the ability to zenkai and return even stronger, which is why I've been arguing he'd inherently just be better thanks to his mixed DNA. First, I think we're just having different interpretations of "improved". I think a Frieza that can regenerate his head if it's blown off is an improvement over one that doesn't. Ergo, Cell is an improved version of Frieza. Likewise, Piccolo can't survive if his head is blown off, but Cell pretty obviously can. So he's an improved version of Piccolo in that regard. I'm not saying he Galick Guns better than Vegeta or something (though at the time he could since he just had a higher PL), just that his mixed heritage inherently gives him advantages over his parents. Second, I fail to see how Cell isn't "that much more" powerful than Frieza when the main characters went through four variations of Super Saiyan until they found one strong enough to put him down. I mean, if we're going to compare the both of them to Beerus or something, yeah they both look like ants, but Cell was leagues above Frieza in his day, and remained leagues above him until that silly Golden Form. When it came to raw power Cell took it every day of the week that ended in Y. He had DNA from Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta during the Saiyan saga, Frieza and King Cold's DNA from when they landed on Earth, and even in his Imperfect stage was greater than all their PLs combined when they were collected. Then he absorbed a couple of androids that weren't even a threat to someone like Super Vegeta and became even stronger. This is why I've been arguing that he'd proportionally get stronger and not just equal out with Frieza. Everything about him, raw power wise, has him multiples higher than his building blocks. Even Goku couldn't surpass him at the time. Why would it be so different with his potential when he's made of the greatest potential breakers ever aside from Gohan?
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Post by R I P I R I U S on May 4, 2017 18:32:30 GMT
I think they could have shown Vegeta in a pre SS3 state - No Eyebrows. That could hint that he did manage to tap into the transformation thanks to his royal rage.
Since Piccolo did say Gohan could grow stronger in his awakened form, there's a lot of potential stuff to see.
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