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Post by Axalon on Jul 20, 2017 2:51:24 GMT
Basically as the title says, what if there were ever only one Super Saiyan in all of DBZ? How would the story and power creep have changed if there were never any Super Saiyan Bargain Sales?
So under this premise let's assume everything remains the same up to Goku defeating Frieza on Namek. How would you change the series after that?
Personally I would do something along these lines:
Android Saga:
- I'd make Frieza weaker than he was on Namek, due to the extensive injuries he received. He's still trying to take revenge on Goku here, and is planning to pull a blow-up-the-planet move similar to what he did in RoF in a petty revenge scheme due to how badly his ego was crushed on Namek. Trunks still returns and warns the Z-Fighters of the looming Android threat. Due to the cybernetic implants Frieza's able to put up a fight, but Trunks is able to shishkebab him and Cold regardless. Trunks and the others then wait for Goku to arrive, where the same scene with SS1 Goku blocking Trunks' sword with one finger still happens, just with Trunks in base form. He gives Goku the antidote for the heart virus and disappears into his time machine, extremely hopeful now that he's seen the power of the Super Saiyan.
- Everyone trains. Vegeta goes through the same soul agonizing journey, and though he receives tremendous power he realizes that due to the legend the title of Legendary Super Saiyan just doesn't belong to him. He eventually consoles himself that since he's the Prince of all Saiyans, he doesn't need to change his hair color to achieve Ultimate Power. It's his right by birth to be the Lord over the Super Saiyan. He resolves that even though Kakarot may now be the Super Saiyan of legend, goddamn it he still has his noble birthright and he isn't going to let some low-class warrior surpass him, even though he's gained newfound respect for Goku for crushing Frieza and becoming the Super Saiyan. Very typical Vegeta.
- I'd also make the SS1 form itself more difficult to master. Basically, Goku pulling it out and using it for prolonged periods of time enhances his traditional Saiyan instincts. This makes him more warlike, bloodthirsty, more ruthless and cruel, more prideful and sometimes careless, and even his allies start getting leery of Goku in this state. After all, Goku achieved this transformation thanks to a tingling sensation in his back the intense rage that Krililn was forever dead, murdered in front of his eyes by Frieza. Kind of like how when Goku used to go Oozaru, except without a berserk rampage and no tail weakness. Goku can fight going Full Saiyan of course. Vegeta would of course encourage him to accept this mantle and Saiyan birthright constantly throughout the series, being a proud Saiyan as Vegeta is, while Gohan or Krillin would try to dissuade him from using the form. This leads to Goku improving his base form as well, since he doesn't want to rely on the raw savage fury of the Super Saiyan, meaning that he isn't going to transform every single time he gets in a fight like he did in classic DBZ, but can still pull out SS1 should he need it. Goku rejecting his Super Saiyan heritage naturally irritates Vegeta of course.
- Here is where we decrease the power creep slightly again. The androids are not stronger than Final Form Frieza. They're very strong, and their ability to absorb energy allows them to receive temporary power boosts, but an isolated scientist building androids IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS...
...doesn't create fighters stronger than the Emperor of the Universe.
- Three years pass, and the Androids attack. Yamcha still gets impaled of course. Goku catches the heart virus, gets saved by Vegeta. Vegeta stuns everyone by effortlessly dismantling #19 the same way, just without going SS1, tells Yamcha to ferry Goku away and that he'll come after Yamcha's head if he allows anything bad to happen to Kakarot the Super Saiyan. Gero flees, the remaining Z Fighters give chase, and out of desperation he activates #17 and #18. The same scenario plays out here, with Vegeta getting defeated by #18 and Trunks returning but not being able to do much to help.
- Goku catching the heart virus means he's out of action for the Android Rampage, forcing the other Z Fighters to regroup, retreat, and rethink. With Vegeta and Trunks never having SS1, the Androids built IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, also aren't presented as immediately stronger than the Super Saiyan of Legend. The androids themselves may be somewhat weaker than what we're accustomed to, but this is balanced out with Goku being out of commission and Vegeta not being a SS1. Vegeta is of course humiliated by his loss as he always is, while Piccolo ponders fusing with Kami to become whole. He eventually does fuse with him, with the same foreboding feeling of something dark on the horizon.
- That foreboding darkness is, of course, Cell.
Cell, Broly, Buu and more to come later!
What would you guys have done differently?
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 20, 2017 4:55:10 GMT
So under this premise let's assume everything remains the same up to Goku defeating Frieza on Namek. How would you change the series after that? Nothing. The damage is already done. The power scale is ruined with Freeza and Goku being too overpowered. Knowing Toriyama he would have still done the same thing he did before only the Saiyans don't get Super Saiyan, but still catch up to Goku. The only lasting change I see is there is no higher Super Saiyan levels, so essentially Goku just stays Super Saiyan, but it still loses meaning, because other Saiyans would likely be able to surpass him and be more impressive than Goku since they don't need a stupid transformation to do it. |
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Post by Ashanark on Jul 20, 2017 5:02:14 GMT
Man...not even Gohan going Super Saiyan? If we're doing a "low-level" runthrough of DBZ, I'd start in Namek saga with giving Frieza only two forms. That way, the gap between Goku and the other characters wouldn't get too wide, and there are fewer zenkais. (This would take a whole other post to explain.) To keep Super Saiyan unique after that, you've got two main options: 1) Kill off Goku so the villains can still be a threat while being weak enough for the other characters to handle. 2) Make the villains problematic for reasons other than their high PL. Option 1: Kill off Goku.In the original timeline, he dies of a heart virus shortly after coming home anyway, so why have him live at all? Have him go out in a blaze of glory on Namek, killing Frieza to make sure he didn't escape. Have that be the Battle of Gods, the highest-PL fight in the series. No Mecha-Frieza to kill, no need for Trunks to be a Super Saiyan. Trunks comes back from the future to warn Gohan, his future master. Gohan is thus forced to become the main character throughout the entire Android/Cell saga, knowing perfectly well he can't become Super Saiyan. (And there are ways to show Trunks is Vegeta's half-Saiyan son besides golden hair color--like, y'know, having a tail.) The only problem is that, with Goku gone, a huge portion of Vegeta's post-Frieza motivation is lost. (But if there's no possibility he can turn Super Saiyan, the rivalry was never going to go anywhere anyway--you'd have to eliminate Majin Vegeta or else have him fight Gohan in the Buu saga.) Option 2: Tweak the villains.
One thing that irks me about DBZ (not bad enough that I don't like it) is that not only was each villain stronger than the last, but they also had ever more overpowered abilities. Frieza's super durable? Well, Cell's just as durable, but can regenerate! Cell can regenerate and eat people? Buu can regenerate and eat people, too, but he's better at it in every way! The point is, the abilities alone could've made them dangerous without them being stronger to boot. In a DBZ with only one Super Saiyan, you'd really have to play up those abilities. Androids: All of them are a threat because you can't sense their energy. 19 and 20 have their energy-sucking played up, maybe working like Super 17's, so no using energy attacks against them. (Maybe Goku shoots a few too many Kamehamehas their way and gives them Frieza-level power?) 17 and 18 have infinite stamina and tag-team, making them very dangerous in the long run. Cell: He's dangerous because he can regenerate, and he's very stealthy. He's steadily growing in power, too. If you want to keep things from going above Frieza (or making Gohan a Super Saiyan), he probably couldn't reach his Perfect form. Maybe the Z-Fighters use 16's bomb to kill him or something, I dunno. The Majins: Play up how the Majin powerup makes them stronger and harder to kill. (Spopovich fixed his freaking neck--why did Majin Vegeta never do anything like this?) Dabura can still be a threat with his stone spit, and if you said his sword could cut anything, he'd be able to pose a challenge regardless of power level. Buu: I'd tweak him a bit. To make him different from Cell, he can't regenerate...he's instead just simply impervious to damage. The Z-Fighters might be able to beat him in a fight, but while they can punch him around, they can't harm him, and he's slowly going around absorbing people. If Goku's around for the action, Buu's magical nature makes him unkillable even to a Super Saiyan. The Z-Fighters eventually find out the only thing that can kill him is a Spirit Bomb, and the only way to get one potent enough is to power it with the entire planet. In this way, you have numerous ways to make guys a problem without making them strong: energy-draining, tireless, regenerating, magical, or invulnerable. I really think this could work. Thoughts on Axalon's - I'd also make the SS1 form itself more difficult to master. Basically, Goku pulling it out and using it for prolonged periods of time enhances his traditional Saiyan instincts. This makes him more warlike, bloodthirsty, more ruthless and cruel, more prideful and sometimes careless, and even his allies start getting leery of Goku in this state. After all, Goku achieved this transformation thanks to a tingling sensation in his back the intense rage that Krililn was forever dead, murdered in front of his eyes by Frieza. Kind of like how when Goku used to go Oozaru, except without a berserk rampage and no tail weakness. Goku can fight going Full Saiyan of course. Vegeta would of course encourage him to accept this mantle and Saiyan birthright constantly throughout the series, being a proud Saiyan as Vegeta is, while Gohan or Krillin would try to dissuade him from using the form. This leads to Goku improving his base form as well, since he doesn't want to rely on the raw savage fury of the Super Saiyan, meaning that he isn't going to transform every single time he gets in a fight like he did in classic DBZ, but can still pull out SS1 should he need it. Goku rejecting his Super Saiyan heritage naturally irritates Vegeta of course. If Super Saiyan was unique and you had to keep the PLs low to account for that, this is how you'd have to swing it. Superman needs Kryptonite; if Super Saiyan can handle anything, it's got to have weaknesses, and turning Goku into some sort of rage monster would serve the purpose. I agree. Again, I think it would've been very possible to keep the androids a threat without them surpassing Frieza. |
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Post by Axalon on Jul 20, 2017 5:31:09 GMT
Cell Saga:- Piccolo has gone up to the Lookout and fused with Kami, becoming whole again. This would be the first time where I'd personally put someone aside from Goku as definitively stronger than Frieza. Nail alluded to Piccolo's strength if he had been whole back in the Namek Saga, though admittedly he hadn't realized Frieza's full power at the time. Even then, the weaker fusion of himself and Piccolo was able to fend off a Frieza twice as strong as the one Nail had fought. Piccolo's intense training for the Androids, combined with becoming one with Kami, has finally allowed Nail's theory to become fully realized. I think I'd have him chant again too, if only for the LULZ. - Cell has in the meantime begun to move, attacking Gingertown. With the Androids still being undetectable and Cell the only person causing a ruckus at the moment, Piccolo flies off to investigate. Cell at the time is currently outmatched by Piccolo, but as before in the regular story he's able to escape by shocking him with the knowledge of the Kamehameha and escaping via the Solar Flare. Again as before, Piccolo is infuriated that Cell slipped through his fingers, causing Vegeta to have a mild freakout when he realizes he's been eclipsed by the titular Namekian. Again. - After this, Trunks pays Goku a visit. Not being aware of multiverse theory at the time he was worried when his future magically didn't change so he brought along some more heart medication for Goku. Yamcha explains to Trunks what happened with #19, while Trunks is shocked that the initial vial of medication he brought somehow wasn't enough. He's further shocked when he learns that Goku had to go SS1 to deal with just #19, but then the small group present collectively realizes that Goku was already feeling the effects of the virus at that point, and tried to finish things quickly by transforming. Roshi then theorizes that Super Saiyan must itself be straining on the body, and with Goku in a weakened state thanks to the disease the transformation ended up accelerating the stages of Goku's condition. As already mentioned though, Trunks luckily thought to bring more of the cure, so now Goku just needs time to rest and recover. Roshi also wonders if maybe another reason Goku struggles so much with SS1 is because he's fighting the transformation itself, as mentioned above in the Android Saga in how I'd initially tweak SS1 and how it not only has a physical drain, but also a mental one as Goku tries to curb his natural Saiyan instincts in the form. - As the strongest Z Fighter currently on the planet, Piccolo takes it upon himself to save the world, dryly noting on how much the tables have turned since his old glory days when he was going to destroy it instead. Cell plays up being a serial killer with Piccolo always one step behind him. Eventually Piccolo gets frustrated and decides to just cut to the heart of the matter by targeting the Androids instead, so as to just deny Cell his full power immediately. He doesn't have to wait long, as soon enough the three Androids show up at Kame House. Trunks has moved Goku by now of course, so Piccolo decides to take a crack at #17. Original fight here: - Piccolo does better against #17 than he did originally, but thanks to #17's unlimited energy he runs into the same problems he did in the original story. #17 can just keep going and going like an evil Energizer bunny. His improved fight also prompts #18 to play dirty and also join in the fight, turning it into a 2v1. #16 in the meantime just does his thing and watches birds or something. As before, Piccolo is unable to eliminate an Android and then Cell joins the party. Piccolo's worn down at this point by the Androids, so his effort to stop Cell is in vain. This is when #16 joins the fray to save #17 from being absorbed. - I would slightly change #16 to be a prototype that Gero discarded because he felt that biomechanics was the true way to defeat Goku after witnessing the power of the Super Saiyan, and potentially even estimating some of the drawbacks of the raw, currently untamed form. #16 would be the pinnacle of true synthetics designed for power, not prolonged durability as #17 and #18 are better suited for. As such, #16 is able to rough Cell up quite a bit, to everyone's shock. Cell gives him the slip though and absorbs #17, becoming Semi-Perfect. - While all this has been going on Mr. Popo has shown Vegeta and Trunks the Hyberbolic Time Chamber, and the two have been training in it ever since Gingertown. While neither of them are Super Saiyans, they're able to become each more formidable in their own right. Halfway to Perfection, Cell is able to thwack #16 a few good times. An injured, exhausted Piccolo wakes up at this point and despairs when he sees that Cell is half complete, and steels himself for a desperate battle. At this point Trunks and Vegeta also arrive. Rather than try and take on Cell one at a time, this new fight is Semi-Perfect Cell vs all four of them at once. Krillin's also arrived at this point with the killswitch for #18, but as before won't use it. - After a fierce battle in which #16 is heavily damaged, Piccolo is knocked out cold again, and Trunks is a little bloodied but otherwise not too worse for the wear, we have Vegeta's big Pride moment. Cell is down but not out, and baits Vegeta's pride by convincing him to become complete so he (Cell) can face his death as a warrior, while also giving Vegeta major pride goosebumps and defeating an opponent even the Super Saiyan might not have defeated. The pride moment in general, whether here or with Super Vegeta, I feel is vital because it not only shows just how massive of an ego Vegeta has, no matter how stupid he looks during this moment, it will also frame Cell's own supreme ego later on down the line, which makes sense since he clearly takes his pride from his Vegeta and Frieza genes. Vegeta in particular is gloating at how no mere machine can truly match the might of the Saiyan race, and that by defeating Cell he will have defeated an opponent that Goku couldn't--leaving out the fact that he had a heart virus of course--since by transitive property Goku was having trouble with earlier models of Androids. - Take note that Vegeta has in fact not surpassed Piccolo at this point, and is in full delusional mode. Cell is simply manipulating Vegeta, who is acting like a prideful idiot, so that he can stop having obstacles in his way. Cell isn't in full Cell Games mode yet, since he still wants Perfection as his primary motive at this stage. Brief TL;DR for transitive property: - Surpassing the Super Saiyan is all Vegeta has in his glory seeking mind at this point. Not only will this mean he's surpassed Goku as a proper Prince of All Saiyans should, but also the annoying Namekian and Frieza as well. Trunks, ever the pragmatist, thinks Vegeta's being a moron and they engage in a round or three of fisticuffs. Cell uses this opportunity to slip away and become Perfect Cell...until he runs into Tien, Krillin and #18. Cell scoffs at the two humans, saying there's not a chance that these two weaklings could stop him when just earlier he was fending off a tired Piccolo, #16, and Vegeta and Trunks. He moves for #18, but because he was so careless and literally just ignored the two, Krillin slices off his tail with a Kienzan just before he can trap #18. An outraged Cell turns to Krillin, who blinds him with a Solar Flare. He gets #18 to safety, and Tien Kikohos him to the ground while he's still blinded from Krillin. - As before Tien exhausts himself to the ground. Goku's somewhat recovered from his virus, but is still feeling a bit woozy. He nonetheless IT's over and grabs Tien and Piccolo before Cell can stab him in the face and suck his juices out. Cell's thrilled to see Goku here, but Goku ITs away before Cell can do anything about it. Goku collapses after this point, and Popo starts having an idea to aid Goku with the form. Cell recovers, makes sure to remove Krillin as an obstacle first, and then absorbs #18. Vegeta has finally defeated Trunks in battle, and flies over. - Perfect Cell deals with Vegeta very predictably. Vegeta uses his ace in the hole, the Final Flash, a technique he made just for fighting the power of the Super Saiyan. It fails of course. Cell congratulates Vegeta on the power of the attack, but scoffs at the notion that it would've been able to defeat either himself or Goku, noting that it was only as effective as it was because he let Vegeta use it in the first place. A devastated Vegeta, feeling like a fool, gets knocked away, and Trunks flies in instead. I really like the concept of Trunks bulking himself up so much that he's too slow to hit Cell, so I'd somehow keep that in. Maybe he saw Roshi's bulked up form and the advantages it gave him, and so tried it with his own body. Cell laughs at him of course, and then plans the Cell Games, confident that not even Goku is a match for his strength. - Goku meanwhile is healthy enough for the senzu to work again. He realizes that if he wants to defeat Cell, who seems to be a Perfect combination of a clear mind in the heat of battle, proper energy output and managing stamina, he's got to work on the challenges of the Super Saiyan form. Goku heads to the HTC and takes Gohan with him, all while Piccolo is despairing that even though he's now surpassed Frieza, Cell seems to be even stronger still. It's then that Popo says he has a theory to aid Goku. Man...not even Gohan going Super Saiyan? Not even Gohan! What's the point of being unique if it isn't unique!? There's only one person in my hypothetical scenario who could also transform, and his time is coming up next... 
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Post by Axalon on Jul 20, 2017 7:44:41 GMT
Broly, the Legendary Sup--"But Axalon!" You say, "Isn't the entire point of this scenario that only Goku has it?" Yes. Broly, the Legendary Super Saiyan:- Cell has become Perfect. He's given an ultimatum. In 7 days, he will host a tournament called the Cell Games. Goku is preparing to train in the time chamber when Popo approaches him with an idea. I'm totally borrowing from anime filler for this. Remember when Popo sent the humans back through time to fight some random Saiyans? This is that. Popo sends Goku and friends back to meet the LAST Super Saiyan, who mysteriously disappeared, presumed dead, when a comet destroyed the planet he was on. Goku loves the idea of meeting the previous Super Saiyan. He hopes he'll be able to talk to him, mano a mano, Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan, and maybe even train with him to see what this guy did. So Popo sends them back...how does Popo know about the previous Super Saiyan? The answer is directly below.  - No but really. Given that Popo is a divine assistant sent there to aid Earth's God it makes a tiny bit of sense that he could have some knowledge of things. If the Namekian Book of Legends knows exactly how to make a Super Saiyan God, what's a little galactic history, am I right? - Setting is basically the same as the first Broly movie. Paragus is still Broly's father, and still even uses the mind control device. Using the device he's been able to just barely keep Broly in check, moving around from planet to planet, living like a king before getting bored with it, drained it of everything worth having, then moving on. Other notable differences include that Broly does NOT hate Goku with a passion because Goku cried next to him as a baby. The reason why is because he's the previous Super Saiyan of legend, while Goku is the next one. There's also no plan to lure Vegeta in, since this is 1,000 years before Frieza blows up the planet. As with the other villains that have shown their full strength so far, Broly is weaker than his classic incarnation, but still the strongest thing that Goku's fought up to this point. - Goku and the others arrive, searching for the Legendary Super Saiyan. They meet Broly, but like in the movie dismiss him as being the Saiyan of legend. Paragus recognizes fellow Saiyans, and decides to be a little gracious since he intends to move on before the comet hits the planet anyway. Popo has "conveniently" sent them to when Paragus finally can't contain Broly anymore just as the comet is going to crash. Goku decides to transform to try and draw in the Super Saiyan, which triggers Broly, who is reflexively responding to Goku's show of strength. Paragus panics first upon seeing another Super Saiyan, and then at Broly trying to break free and tries to restrain him, but to no avail. - So Broly Hulks out, and this is when Goku takes away a valuable lesson. He realizes that unlike himself, Broly has fully embraced the primal nature of the Super Saiyan. His eyes don't have pupils, he has no remorse, he's a rampaging monster. Goku looks at this and realizes that this is what he could become, especially when Broly briefly stops and crushes his father's spaceship like a beer can. Vegeta also sees what Broly is and at first tells Goku this is what he should be, but then upon seeing just how out of control he is he has his big reaction where he kneels down in despair and prepares to die. Goku and everyone else try to fight Broly, but Broly is having none of it and is having his way with them. - Goku's not letting this opportunity go to waste though, even if Broly's a near-mindless berserker. Throughout the fight he's seen trying different options to get a feel for how Broly's doing the things that he's doing. He takes note of Broly's sheer bulk compared to his base form and initially tries to bulk up to compensate, giving us a small glimpse of the Ascended forms. Super Goku and Ultra Goku don't quite cut it against Broly though, so Goku quickly realizes it isn't sheer muscle size that Broly has going for him. Goku ultimately dismisses the forms since they remind him of Frieza's 100% form that also got worn out on Namek. Broly's not using some kind of artificial powerup, Broly just IS. While Goku is dealing with this and trying to figure out what to do Piccolo's trying to buy him as much time as he can. He's able to temporarily hold Broly off, but it's a losing battle and he doesn't last too long. Vegeta eventually also joins in but isn't able to do more than distract him. Tien, Krillin and Gohan try some shenanigans but Broly either tanks or dodges their efforts, all while laughing manically. - Broly and Goku go toe-to-toe again and Goku's able to punch a hole in Broly thanks to everyone else giving him their energy. Broly's rising, overflowing ki overflows from him and he explodes. The battle is won, but just barely. The world around them fades and they find themselves back on the Lookout. Vegeta's regained his composure by now and tells Goku that to defeat Cell he has to become like Broly, get stronger and embrace his Saiyan heritage. Krillin immediately objects to this, with Piccolo wondering if they'd end up just trading Cell for an out-of-control Goku. - Goku thanks Popo for the trip and takes Gohan with him to the time chamber. I figured this was the best way to incorporate Broly, keep the whole Legendary aspect about his character, while also keeping the Super Saiyan form unique and faithful to how Vegeta originally described the legend, before Toei/Toriyama made it a biological function that even a nice back tingle could achieve. Broly just being himself also ties into the modified Super Saiyan I presented that makes Goku more violent and ruthless (plus it also ties in with how SS2 Gohan became a bit of a sadist back in the original DBZ). I also don't really care that this conflicts with the second Bardock movie where he got sent back 1,000 years to fight Chilled, since that movie was just weird. It does require leaning on some anime filler to make happen with Popo's magical time travel, but better than everyone literally leaving the planet via spaceship to an entirely different galaxy and getting back all in time for the Cell Games.
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Post by Xeno Black on Jul 20, 2017 7:50:51 GMT
AxalonWhat about Super Saiyan God? People can still cheat and become a "form" of super saiyan if enough saiyans are around.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 20, 2017 8:17:14 GMT
Xeno Black That is admittedly a problem, though I think Super Saiyan God is it's OWN problem in and of itself given the magical nature by which it's gained. It also bugs me that fully grown Saiyans like Gohan were exhausted by the ritual and couldn't even fly, but somehow Videl and Fetus Pan came out completely fine even though Gohan's literally millions of times stronger than them and now can't even fly? I don't buy it. It helps that, if we include the manga, only two characters have even achieved the form to date. Given that Beerus said it was remarkable that Goku was able to retain godly ki after the time limit expired, other characters like, I dunno...Goten, might not receive that same permanent gain that Goku did. It also helps that aside from Vegeta's eternal quest to never get left behind none of the other Saiyans even care about getting godly power. If we were to keep Vegeta as being unable to go SS1 but then he underwent the god ritual, then at best he'd be a temporary Super Saiyan God until the time limit ran out, and then be a Saiyan Beyond God after that, but he'd never dye his hair blue. But given that Vegeta has apparently not undergone the ritual and instead achieved godly ki by training with Whis, we might be able to avoid even that pitfall. There's also Caulifla who's expressed interest in godly ki, but nobody cares about her anyway.  
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 20, 2017 8:22:12 GMT
I don't think there would be a Super Saiyan God. In this scenario there is only one Super Saiyan and everyone is scaled down to keep power levels reasonable. Beerus and his ilk really have no place in this really. I'm not sure I like the idea of Goku being the only Super Saiyan. My problem the legend being played straight is that it makes Goku being a destined warrior who was always going to be the strongest in the universe as oppose to low level warrior who proved his race's caste system was bullshit and impeded their growth. This scenario keeps Super Saiyan unique, but I feel like it loses something else that made Goku work. It's kind of like how people dislike Hisana being an elite warrior in DBM takes away from that aspect of Goku.
Maybe if Vegeta was the Super Saiyan and Goku still surpassed him. It feels like Goku should have that low level fighter going for him over being the destined warrior.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 20, 2017 8:42:10 GMT
I don't think there would be a Super Saiyan God. In this scenario there is only one Super Saiyan and everyone is scaled down to keep power levels reasonable. Beerus and his ilk really have no place in this really. I'm not sure I like the idea of Goku being the only Super Saiyan. My problem the legend being played straight is that it makes Goku being a destined warrior who was always going to be the strongest in the universe as oppose to low level warrior who proved his race's caste system was bullshit and impeded their growth. This scenario keeps Super Saiyan unique, but I feel like it loses something else that made Goku work. It's kind of like how people dislike Hisana being an elite warrior in DBM takes away from that aspect of Goku. Maybe if Vegeta was the Super Saiyan and Goku still surpassed him. It feels like Goku should have that low level fighter going for him over being the destined warrior. Dammit I was going to do one about that after I got through the Buu saga. Though quite frankly it'd be more akin to a complete rewrite instead of alterations to power levels while keeping the same plot. |
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Post by Symbiotic on Jul 20, 2017 9:36:23 GMT
I'd been toying with this idea for a while, but with SS1 being the only level, not just Goku having access to it. You took things to a whole other level! Interesting scenario and I'd definitely read it in fanfic form. To keep things scaled down I follow Ashanark's suggestion that Perfect Cell either shouldn't happen or should be adjusted. Like the only thing Cell gained from absorbing the androids was their infinite stamina so he can go all out for as long as he wants without an issue, and use techniques like the Tri-Beam without dropping dead afterwards. If you write out his Perfect form then the reason he went back in time could just be his Saiyan lust for battle and Gero's order to kill Goku. Good use of Broly, I can't think of better. You should lay out how they got their hands on such advanced tech before Frieza found them. Son Pan Maybe this isn't Axalon's interpretation but I take it as that while initially anyone can be the Super Saiyan after the legend is achieved that's it until they die and the slot reopens. While that explanation doesn't work in a realistic setting it's found in a lot of myths and ultimately that's where Dragon Ball lies closest to. |
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Post by Axalon on Jul 21, 2017 0:41:02 GMT
The Cell Games:Disclaimer: Admittedly this is the toughest section of the bunch to consider, without a doubt. As a result this is probably the most fanfiction-esque part of the imagining if Super Saiyan had remained unique to Goku, which I suppose is inevitable considering that making SS1 unique is such a drastic change to the story. I've been able to keep Perfect Cell's strength ambiguous thanks to him easily defeating a much weaker version of Vegeta and Trunks who made a foolish mistake, while showing that Semi-Perfect Cell was tough, but leaving some wiggle room since Piccolo was worn out. I do think that the main villain of each arc should ultimately be stronger than the last villain, but again we're trying to tone down the power scaling to compensate for only Goku being a SS1. It also hurts because Gohan punching the ever-loving bejeezus out of Cell is one of my more favorite moments in DBZ, as was his transformation to a SS2. Meaning I've locked myself out from that particular version of events. Still, Gohan surpassing enemies Goku couldn't at the time isn't something new either. The Week Before:- So as before, Goku is trying to master SS1. We got to briefly see him experiment with the Super and Ultra grades of Super Saiyan when he tested them in the spur of the moment against Broly, thinking that's what Broly had done because Broly's just so goddamn big, but ultimately realized Broly wasn't using those artificial powerups and was just naturally using his full strength. As a result, Goku has decided that he too must master the transformation, but he has to do it BETTER, or else he'd be no better than Broly and might even be more dangerous to the planet than Cell, who at the very least is civilized enough to hold a tournament. Goku takes Gohan into the time chamber and they train for a year.
- Initially Goku focuses more on his own strength. He doesn't have the goal of making Gohan a Super Saiyan, so he has more time to afford to this. After a little while he remembers Gohan's potential and decides to draw that out as well. It's a good idea since like Super Saiyan, so far Gohan has also been only able to tap into his potential through absolute sheer rage. Thus the two of them can each learn from each other's unique-but-similar situation and even leads to a bit of extra bonding over a somewhat shared plight.
- Goku emerges from the time chamber in the SS1 state, to everyone's shock. Like in the original, Goku's focus here is trying to achieve an absolute familiarity with the ins and outs of the form, and then, instead of just relaxing, decides to take Piccolo aside and together he, Piccolo and Gohan focus on mental/ki training afterwards. More than most people, Piccolo knows what it's like to have a darker side in your mind, and about balance yadayadayada. Vegeta huffs at this of course, again saying that if Kakarot wants to defeat Cell, he needs to embrace the raw fury of the Super Saiyan. He again compares him to Broly, and says Broly would've had a much easier fight against Cell than anything he's seen Goku do. Goku agrees with Vegeta on the latter point, but says he's got something else in mind instead. Piccolo offers to spar with Goku, since he himself is now stronger than Frieza after fusing with Kami, but Goku asks him to wait instead.
- Goku goes off to fetch Dende at this point, then returns and Dende revives Shenron. Vegeta and Trunks have gone into the chamber at this point, so Goku and Piccolo do a little sparring while Gohan heads over to CC to visit Bulma and grab the Dragon Radar. At this point he meets #16, who has been repaired, and the two of them go off collecting DBs. Piccolo and Goku conclude sparring just in time for Gohan and #16 to come back with the new DBs. I added this in because I always felt it strange that of all things Gohan could lose his shit over originally, it was over an Android he barely even knew while his father and friends he's known for forever were getting tortured.
- The week goes by, and everyone's as trained up as they can possibly get. It's time to go visit Cell. After Mr. Satan gracefully allows Cell to live in the first match the true tournament begins. Here is where I'd change things up. I wouldn't have Goku go first. I'd have Goku strike a deal with Cell. In exchange for not killing anyone, Goku will agree to hold nothing back. Cell is intrigued by this, and agrees since he doesn't see much sport in people like Yamcha anyway and agrees that saving Goku, the best for last, is the ideal conclusion to the Games. But because he's bored with lesser fighters and wants to hurry things along he decides he'll take on a bunch of them at once so he can hurry up and get to Goku. The Games Begin:- But since he wants a small challenge he uses the Multiform and then takes on Krillin, Yamcha, Tien and Trunks all at once. Given that he's only 25% of the man he used to be, the team hopes it'll be enough to take him by surprise. The latter four use their own teamwork and techniques to great effect, but in the end lose to Cell's teamwork (it's four of him after all) and uses their own techniques against them. This is valuable for Goku, since he's never really seen Cell fight before. True to his word Cell agrees not to kill any of the Z-Fighters, for now at any rate, and roughly tosses the four out of the ring after he's had his playtime.
- Vegeta and Piccolo go up next, and do much better against the four Cells. Cell pulls himself back together, and reunified into a single perfect being, defeats Vegeta and Piccolo while the others watch on. Vegeta tries to Final Flash Cell while he's engaged in a fistfight with Piccolo, but Cell throws up a barrier and blocks the whole thing. Piccolo and Cell continue fighting, but Piccolo realizes that he's doing the same thing #17 did. He's wearing him down. #16 over on the sidelines confirms this, noting that Cell must be using the energy generators he absorbed from #17 and #18 to sustain his power. With the game now up, Cell reveals this is why he's the Perfect being. He will never tire, never rest, and he can use the Z-Fighters' own power and skills against them. He's incorporated the best traits of everyone into his own genetic design. He is the Perfect Fighter.
- Goku tells Vegeta and Piccolo not to worry about it. Cell is thrilled to hear that Goku wants to fight, and allows Piccolo and Vegeta to walk off with their pride intact. Piccolo and Vegeta aren't happy about it, but each one walks away with their own justifications of what Goku's going to do. At this point there'd be a reveal during Cell and Goku's battle that Goku still hasn't mastered the form, just gotten comfortable with it. Goku's simply channeling the raw fury and refining it onto a single point, Cell. Cell is stunned by Goku's power and drive, but nonetheless commits to the battle. As with Piccolo before him, Cell's just weathering the storm, albeit with much more difficulty this time around. Goku himself is also having trouble as the fight progresses, since while he's essentially mastered SS1 in a calm, peaceful environment, being thrust into the heat of battle against a powerful foe is getting his Saiyan blood boiling. Off on the sidelines you hear occasional shouts of encouragement for Goku, with the occasional bloodthirsty comment from Vegeta about how he needs to stop holding back.
- Eventually the battle with Cell reaches a culmination point where Goku briefly goes Full Broly on him, in turn destroying the entire ring. Cell is stunned by Goku's primal fury, as is Goku himself when he calms down eventually. Vegeta at this point is ecstatic, proclaiming that now is the critical point for Kakarot to accept his Saiyan heritage and wipe Cell from the face of the planet, to be merciless as a true Super Saiyan should. Cell and Goku continue fighting before Goku realizes that as a fighter he can't keep going on like this, with the constant uncertainty that he could be like Broly and just be a rampaging monster. Cell on the other hand is playing it smart and trying to use his natural durability, his regeneration, his barrier technique, and his unlimited energy borrowed from the Androids to outlast Goku. At various times he's also trying to score critical injuries on Goku, because Cell can always just regrow an arm, Goku can't. The Wrath of Gohan:- Goku eventually gives up, saying that he can't fully enjoy this fight the way he currently is. Cell doesn't believe this of course, and demands that Goku keeps fighting. Goku refuses, saying he doesn't deserve to win. Cell is incredulous of course, and goes through the full gamut of reactions before finally threatening to just blow up the planet. Goku sends Gohan in after this, saying that though he himself may not deserve to win, Gohan can and will save the planet. He believes in him and that the efforts they've gone through over the past year and a week will get him through. Cell is only slightly mollified since he reasons he can just torture Gohan to provoke Goku to come fight him again. As he starts battling Gohan, Gohan eventually confesses that he too has a power awakened by rage but is scared to use it. It's not in his nature after all, and seeing his father briefly go Full Broly has also scared him, because he doesn't want to be like his father when he gets like that. Cell doesn't care about this of course, and decides he wants to see Gohan's strength next since Goku is too much of a coward to fight him at 100%, or so he thinks, and is confident that as the Perfect Being it's his destiny to defeat all challengers.
- Goku in the meantime is confident that Gohan could do what he could not. Harness his rage and tap into his power without losing humanity. It's at this point that #16 comes in to save the day, only for him to get exploded by Cell. Only this doesn't push Gohan over the edge. He gets angry, and starts fighting Cell. Cell is delighted that he now knows how to get a rise out of his opponent and knows what he has to do. He breaks his word, because he's the evil villain obviously, and starts killing the other Z Fighters. He targets Krillin with a Death Beam, but then Goku, who has gone back to base form, pushes him out of the way at the last second and gets hit by the Death Beam instead. The wound isn't fatal, but it's a bad one. Krillin quickly tries to give him the last senzu, the others having been used up after the previous battles against Cell, but Cell quickly destroys it AND inadvertently Krillin in the process. Piccolo jumps back into the fray as Cell laments that he was too hasty and should've let Krillin heal Goku. Vegeta, seeing that Goku the Super Saiyan is out of commission, drops down in despair. Trunks tries to convince Vegeta to fight.
- While Piccolo starts losing against Cell, poor Gohan is still in the Denial phase. Just as Piccolo is getting beaten down and can't take anymore, Mr. Satan tosses #16's head over to Gohan, who says his big encouragement speech. Cell notices this, gives Piccolo a crushing blow, then likewise gives #16 the fatal crushing blow. Yamcha and Tien jump in only to be easily dealt with by Cell, who takes them out with only a single hit each. With #16 and Krillin dead, Goku heavily injured, and Piccolo, Tien and Yamcha all down and possibly dead, Gohan finally snaps.
- Just as Trunks is about to declare Vegeta a lost cause and go off to help the others is when Gohan snaps. Unlike Gohan's calm, controlled fury from before, I'd make Gohan just go to town on him. No preamble, no time for Cell to react or even comprehend what it is that just happened. Suddenly there's a screaming ball of fury beating him senseless. By being caught off-guard in such a fashion, Cell gets critically damaged and blasted away, with no one being able to sense him. Gohan calms down a bit and flies over to Goku, while Vegeta is in shock at all of it. Cell isn't down for long though, and has lowered his power level so as to sneak up on them. He tries to sneak attack Gohan while his back is turned. Trunks refuses to let Gohan die and takes the blast for him. This finally sets Vegeta off into a doomed and enraged attempt to stop Cell, which fails.
- Cell and Gohan get into a beam struggle. Gohan isn't injured as he was previously when SS2 Gohan intercepted Cell's attack on Vegeta, but is having trouble getting to that level of rage again because he's started to become more worried about everyone else and that he's failed everyone. Once again Cell is showing off his unlimited energy and is just outlasting him in the beam struggle. Cell remarks that it was a fun fight in the end, more fun than he'd thought it would be, but is disappointed in everyone's performance. Speak of the devil though and suddenly an injured Goku is at Gohan's side, through sheer force of will he's transformed back into a SS1 and joins his own Kamehameha with Gohan's. Cell is delighted by this of course, and is so ecstatic that he'll kill Goku and Gohan in the same attack that he never notices Vegeta, Piccolo and the others blast him from above. This distracts Cell long enough for Goku and Gohan to overwhelm and destroy Cell down to the core. The Aftermath- After Cell is defeated, Goku collapses and shortly after passes away. His injury, on top of putting everything he had into helping Gohan, on top of transforming again, was just too much to take at once. He says how proud he is of Gohan, how he was on the right path, blahblah sentimental blah.
- Everyone returns to the Lookout and use the DBs they collected earlier to fix things. Goku refuses to come back to life, reasoning that training in the Other World will do him some good. Krillin, after being revived, decides to wish the Androids back spontaneously, which Shenron does. While the other Z Fighters initially think he's crazy, he argues that there's good in them and they deserve a second chance. True to form, the Androids have been a bit spooked by their encounter with Cell and decide to rethink their ways.
- Future Trunks goes home. He defeats the Androids of his timelime with the killswitch device, then immediately heads over to Gero's lab, which he now knows exactly where it is thanks to visiting it in the past, and destroys Cell. Cell has almost developed into his Imperfect Stage at this point, and Trunks kills him before Gero's computer completes him. He then destroys Gero's lab, and closes the chapter on the horrors this world had to endure.
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Post by Axalon on Jul 21, 2017 0:44:14 GMT
I'd been toying with this idea for a while, but with SS1 being the only level, not just Goku having access to it. You took things to a whole other level! Interesting scenario and I'd definitely read it in fanfic form. To keep things scaled down I follow Ashanark's suggestion that Perfect Cell either shouldn't happen or should be adjusted. Like the only thing Cell gained from absorbing the androids was their infinite stamina so he can go all out for as long as he wants without an issue, and use techniques like the Tri-Beam without dropping dead afterwards. If you write out his Perfect form then the reason he went back in time could just be his Saiyan lust for battle and Gero's order to kill Goku. Good use of Broly, I can't think of better. You should lay out how they got their hands on such advanced tech before Frieza found them. Son Pan Maybe this isn't Axalon's interpretation but I take it as that while initially anyone can be the Super Saiyan after the legend is achieved that's it until they die and the slot reopens. While that explanation doesn't work in a realistic setting it's found in a lot of myths and ultimately that's where Dragon Ball lies closest to. It's kind of my interpretation. Basically anyone has the potential to become the Super Saiyan, but once someone does that's it. After them another 1,000 years have to pass. So eventually those who had the potential to become Super Saiyans could indeed reach the level of SS1 through hard training, but they'd never get the immediate boost that transforming does. As for Cell, yeah I kind of had the same idea and gave him the unlimited energy. I imagined Cell more as a technical fighter, relying on techniques and his unlimited stamina to save the day while Frieza just tries to brute force everything. |
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Post by Xeno Black on Jul 21, 2017 5:53:30 GMT
I have two plausible scenarios that will play out if Goku remained to be the only super saiyan in existence during his fight against Frieza.
Note: In reality, Goku will never have any of the additional super saiyan transformations (SSJ2, SSJ3, God, Blue, etc) because they will not exist. But Legendary and Super Saiyan 4 will since I find them to be unique.
Note 2: A Vegeta version of this thread will be fun to make as well. Will do one of these days.
First Scenario
Just like in canon, Goku will become a super saiyan the moment Krillin dies against Frieza. Both will battle until Frieza is sliced up by his own attack. But when Frieza fires his Death Cannon at Goku, the latest super saiyan's angry kamehameha will kill the tyrant then and there.
No surviving the kamehameha, namek's destruction, and drifting among space will happen for the space tyrant.
As for Goku, all of the available spacecrafts are simply irreparable or too far away for him. Thus along with Frieza, he will die as Planet Namek self destructs in a booming fashion.
Since Frieza has no family (Cooler and King Cold do not exist), his empire will collapse and everyone on Earth will mourn Goku's passing. And despite their wishes to use Shenron, Goku declines and decides to remain dead for the time being. Thus Gohan grows up in trying to take over his father's place as Vegeta alternates from destroying Frieza's crumbling empire, or taking care of his family with Bulma.
And both never achieve the super saiyan state in their lives. Also the androids are much weaker, and some movie villains such as Lord Slug and Bojack do happen, but again they are vastly weaker. Also Broly does not exist, and the higher deities (kaioshin, hakaishin, Buu, Hirudegarn, etc) are not alive as well. Thus Frieza and Goku's power will forever remain the strongest in the universe (and yes, the multiverse does not exist either).
And in Otherworld, Goku trains to master his transformation with the previous ascendants as Frieza rots away in a special prison in Hell.
Second Scenario
To be continued...
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Post by FunnyEvil on Jul 23, 2017 0:23:47 GMT
Would likely never have happened I'm afraid.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 6, 2017 9:48:38 GMT
FunnyEvil  Alright, the Buu saga. *cracks knuckles* I avoided this for a little while simply because getting near the Buu saga feels like brain bleach. IMO it's the worst of any DBZ saga (I liked the completely filler Garlic Jr saga better), and is only beaten in bad quality by some DBGT story arcs. I honestly don't even think DBS is this bad, which is probably why I've been able to endure DBS better than others, because I think the Buu saga is just THAT BAD. But Golden Frieza, Zamasu and especially Caulifla have pushed me close man, like...real close. Quite frankly I don't even know how the Buu saga is even going to work. I played with the idea of bringing Cell back even, but ultimately discarded it. But I can't just leave it unfinished, but I still want to keep the tone similar without just making a complete rewrite so... At any rate, for our recap: - Super Saiyan is limited to Goku only - SS1 is harder to control, Goku risks going full Broly - Broly was the previous Super Saiyan before Goku - The Androids weren't stronger than Frieza, thus Cell wasn't as strong as canon Cell (but stronger than Frieza) - Kamiccolo is still stronger than Vegeta, who is #4 on the totem pole at this point. - Gohan unlocked some of his potential against Cell, but Goku had a literally direct hand in ensuring Cell's defeat before passing. - Also King Kai is still alive. This won't have any bearing, but his death wasn't necessary, the poor guy. So I decided to keep a few things. Namely, the time skip, Gohan slacking off, Goten and Trunks, the tournament, Videl, etc. The Tournament/Babadi:
- So Gohan is going to high school, and keeps the Great Saiyaman aspect of his character. This attracts the attention of Videl, who as before learns about the true defeat of Cell and blackmails him into entering the World Martial Arts Tournament. This eventually gets the attention of Vegeta and Goku, who as before gets to come back for a day to attend. As such, Goten and Trunks start training with Gohan and Vegeta respectively to prepare.
- The day of the tournament arrives, and everything proceeds as before up until Gohan faces Kibito. In canon, this is where Gohan went SS1 and SS2 before getting restrained and the ki sucked out of him. Here, while Gohan still gets drained, obviously there's no Super Saiyan transformation. Why does he get targeted then? Because Spovovich overheard Gohan's confession that he defeated Cell. How could he have overheard that? Because he was being a creepy stalker stalking Videl to get revenge on Satan for defeating him, only to stop when he realizes he'd be no match for Gohan. He thus skulked away and at some point between then and the tournament was Majinized. Using the information that this was the man who defeated Cell, they strike and drain Gohan of his energy. They flee the scene and Supreme Kai and the others give chase.
- Babadi also has some changes that I feel are necessary. His assembly of the "greatest fighters in the universe" or whatever has been stymied by the fact that he...has a hard time finding any. Why does he have a hard time finding people? Because Frieza. This makes Babadi seem a bit less short-sighted in his acquisition of talent, since he's recruiting in the aftermath of Frieza doing his thing. He still has Dabura, Yakon, etc, but they're only the best he's found because they're the only strong ones he's found. Also keeps Frieza somewhat relevant, since even a decade later his effects on the universe are still being felt.
- They arrive at Babadi's ship, but rather than Babadi simply disposing of Yamu and Spovovich, detects the SK and the others and has some minions go attack them, led by the former. I'd include some random Frieza Force guys among the minions for the heck of it, perhaps some of them even recognize Vegeta among the Z Fighters. Vegeta of course sneers and just kills them, while Goku, Gohan, Piccolo and the others briefly scuffle with and defeat the remaining ones. Vegeta suggests simply destroying the ship, but SK yells that this could prematurely awaken Buu. Dabura then arrives, petrifies Piccolo, Kibito and Krillin, and invites them into the ship.
- The Pui Pui fight I wouldn't change at all. Vegeta never transforms to fight him originally, and the changing of gravity would likewise still mean nothing to him. Yakon would also be mostly unchanged, just that Goku overloads him via SS1, not SS2. For Gohan and Dabura I'd have Gohan faring off a lot worse. His years of slacking off combined with not being able to turn Super Saiyan really hurt him in this fight. This in turn infuriates Vegeta, who loudly points out to Goku that this is what happens when you deny your rightful Saiyan heritage and accept peace and pacifism. Gohan at this point is a limp punching bag, but Dabura, overconfident demon king that he is, refrains from killing him and just tosses his near-lifeless body to Goku. He then claims he's bored and says he'll have another fighter for them to fight shortly.
- This of course leads into Majin Vegeta. Personally, I think Majinization isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I think Vegeta had achieved SS2 on his own, and what he truly desired was a change in mindset. That's an entirely different debate though. For the purposes of this story, Majinization is actually a power boost, one that works based on your potential and unleashes it. Vegeta had the potential to be a Super Saiyan, but could never attain it after Goku unlocked it. For the actual process, I'd have it be more subtle. I'd reveal that Babadi's been subconsciously nagging him ever since Vegeta defeated some random minions. I'd have Dabura, as the Demon King, notice the evil within Vegeta's heart from the get-go.
- Ever since Vegeta began his fight with Pui Pui, Babadi was this evil little voice in his head that gradually got louder and louder as time progressed. He didn't just defeat Pui Pui, he enjoyed it. He reveled in it. Mercilessly toying with and dispatching an opponent like the good ol' days as the Saiyan Prince. The voice became even more compelling as Goku showed off his power against Yakon, at Gohan's weakness as a Saiyan, finally culminating in when Dabura noticed that Vegeta was more or less "ready" and promptly abandoned the battlefield. It was less of a sudden brute-force attempt by Babadi and more a subtle acceptance of the situation by Vegeta, at Babadi's prodding. The only warning for Goku or Supreme Kai would've been the actual branding itself, which would've been quite painful but accomplished very quickly. Vegeta's tail grows back, and Babadi magically whips some some oldschool Saiyan-esque Battle Armor to complete the transformation of Vegeta's new identity as Majin Vegeta.
- As a result of this process, this Majin Vegeta now has all the power he potentially had if he could go SS1. Goku heals Gohan with a senzu, then tells Gohan to go take care of Babadi while he deals with Vegeta. Vegeta as before rejects Babadi's orders and insists he's only here to fight Goku. Babadi decides to let this pass, since he figures once Goku's out of the way with Vegeta's obsession won't cloud his mind and make him a more malleable slave in the future. The actual fight between SS1 Goku and Majin Vegeta I'd make an absolute brutal slugfest. Vegeta's unrestrained rage and newfound power clashing with Goku's Super Saiyan rage (not to be confused with that one Future Trunks form) and power.
- Vegeta initially has the upper hand in the fight, all the while revealing everything that led to him accepting Babadi's offer. His humiliation at the defeat of a low-class Saiyan warrior like Kakarot. Being cheated out of his immortality. Being cheated out of personally taking revenge on Frieza. Reduced to somehow being weaker than a Namekian who Nappa had slaughtered. Humiliated again when some random machine built by an old man IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, outdid his royal Saiyan lineage. Being helpless and terrified watching Broly rampage around. Angry that Goku wasn't embracing the glory of being the Super Saiyan. Angry that HE wasn't the Super Saiyan. Angry that Goku's successor was a milksop weakling that had still somehow surpassed him during the Cell Games. Horrified that even with all these years of training, seeing Goku's strength against Yakon and comparing to his own, and how he found his own lacking. How like Gohan, he too had become soft in the years of peace as he saw himself becoming a family man and accepting...mediocrity. No, he couldn't stand that. All his buttons were being pushed and Babadi seized the moment.
- Goku for his part endures all of the enraged screaming and the punching and when Vegeta's done with his ranting expresses how disappointed he is in him. Goku for his own part has attained some mastery over the rage that comes with being a Super Saiyan, but Vegeta's prolonged the fight to the point that he's nearing the end of his limits as well as the end of his patience. Goku expresses that he too is a bit disappointed that Gohan chose not to follow in his footsteps, but respects Gohan enough to let him make his own decisions. Then he says Vegeta has no idea what it's like to be a Super Saiyan. Babadi may have unleashed his potential, but even as he is now he can't comprehend the sheer fury and power of what that inheritance means, but he can give him a demonstration if he wants it that badly.
- Goku starts powering up. Vegeta barely has time to process that even though his raw Super Saiyan potential is now available to him, Goku's potential isn't as raw anymore. It's been refined and worked on. But before Goku can show what he truly means by this a new ki is felt by both fighters. Buu has emerged. Realizing that Gohan must have failed, Goku stops and tells Vegeta that they've squabbled enough. Their bickering has caused all this, and they need to stop it. Vegeta initially tries to continue fighting, but after a few more rounds realizes that any victory here is meaningless. Goku's clearly not focused on him anymore, better to deal with whatever Buu is and finish this than leave it like this. Rather than knock him out and head over to Buu, the two instead head over there, eyeing each other warily the entire time.
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Post by FunnyEvil on Aug 6, 2017 17:47:44 GMT
If Super Saiyan had remained unique...
Gohan would have skipped straight over to Super Saiyan 2 during the Cell games.
Trunks would have gotten Super Saiyan Anger much sooner
Gotenks would be the only character using Super Saiyan 3
Vegeta would become a Super Saiyan God instead (somehow...)
Blue would be Vegito's signature form
All characters who previously used Super Saiyan would be using Kaioken instead
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Post by Axalon on Aug 11, 2017 23:45:03 GMT
Feel free to add your own thoughts here guys, doesn't have to be just me lol. So the actual Buu Saga itself. Majin Vegeta vs Buu
Majin Vegeta and Goku fly over to Buu's location. Dabura has already been dispatched by Buu, and Gohan and Supreme Kai are nowhere to be found. Vegeta destroys Babadi's ship, then says he'll take care of Buu for Goku, since he's apparently so worried about Buu that he can't focus on him. Goku says they should team up, but Vegeta will have none of this. This is another bid in his mind to prove just how much stronger he's gotten, to defeat someone Goku says they should team up for. Goku insists, but Vegeta says if he wants a fight to finish what they started earlier. He then starts his usual spiel about Saiyan pride, and that a 1v1 is all that's needed due to how Supreme Kai kept underestimating the Saiyans at every turn.
Keep in mind that power levels have been modified a bit for this entire alternate world, so Fat Buu doesn't necessarily have to be stronger than Super Perfect Cell.
Buu of course isn't even listening and only starts paying attention when Vegeta punches him in the face. For Buu himself I figure a Botamo-like enemy is good here. Physical attacks just...bounce off. So he's part Botamo, and part that one guy from the World's Strongest movie. The fat yellow Bio-Warrior.
So Vegeta just starts whackin' away to no effect. Buu lets Vegeta punch away for a little bit, unknowingly letting Vegeta think he's easily got the upper hand, but then starts fighting back after starting to have fun. Here is where I'd make the fight a bit more brutal. Spovovich back in the tournament showed that he was able to recover from a broken neck after Videl kicked him, in what otherwise would've been a fatal blow. I'd have more of that being done to Vegeta. It helps highlight the more unnaturalness of the Majinization process. Buu snaps Vegeta's arm and the arm just resets itself. Vegeta's neck gets broken and he twists it back on and keeps fighting. I'd have this be used since frankly I was disappointed that we never saw more of that. Majin Vegeta laughing as he just fixes broken bones while Goku just stares at him would've been great, but alas.
The fight goes on for a bit before Vegeta realizes that even with his new power and his new abilities, it just isn't enough. But damn it he's not going to ask GOKU of all people for help. Piccolo and the two boys show up and watch the fight with Goku. Vegeta is able to temporarily blast Buu away with a Big Bang Attack just long enough to have the same moment where he says goodbye to Trunks, then knocks the two boys out. Vegeta confesses that he's been a fool, and that he's going to amend his mistake by taking Buu down with him.
Goku and Piccolo take the two boys and fly away, while Buu (literally) skips back onto the scene. Vegeta then blows himself up, reasoning that if he can put enough power into one massive attack he can punch through Buu's durability and end him. Piccolo returns and slashes Babadi, but then panics as he sees Buu climb back up from the dirt, mostly unfazed. He still has regeneration, though his main strength now is more his sheer durability than insane regeneration. Piccolo flees the scene for the Lookout. Buu begins his rampage with a healed Babadi, Goku then decides he's going to fight Buu to keep him busy. He doesn't have much time left, but he's got to do something about it. Before this, Goku shows the two boys the fusion dance and leaves them in Piccolo's capable hands.
Goku confronts the two and, after hinting that Buu should get rid of Babadi, starts to fight him. He trades a few blows in his base form, at first trying to maximize his limited time to stall for as long as possible, but realizes he'd end up stalling him for less time if he doesn't power up quick. So then he goes SS1 and says he can go further beyond. So rather than have the big moment where Goku went SS3, here instead Goku just goes Maximum Broly on him. His training in the Other World has allowed him to improve upon the Super Saiyan form, and he believes the only way to put Buu down is concentrated power in every single attack, which he theorizes this form can handle. This form is basically Broly in terms of design. Goku isn't too concerned about any rage side effects since his time is limited, so goes Full Broly on Buu.
Though Goku fares better than Majin Vegeta did, the form's tendency to expel excess ki once it reaches rising and overflowing levels also ends up eating at his time limit. Babadi of course is completely shocked at the being in front of him, but Buu's sheer durability combined with his regeneration means he can take it. Goku realizes his time is almost up, says goodbye and makes Buu promise to wait for what will eventually become Gotenks, then ITs out. Shortly thereafter Goku is forced to return to the Other World, and Piccolo continues to train Goten and Trunks to fuse.
Gotenks and BuuBuu kills Babadi shortly after Goku departs. As Buu continues his rampage across the Earth, Hercule the Savior of All goes out to confront him. As before, he fails miserably at poisoning Buu and blowing him up, but is able to stop him from blowing up anymore cities by being nice to him. While Hercule is in the process of doing this, the two boys finally get the hang of fusion, fusing into Gotenks. Just when Piccolo thinks that just maybe they might not even NEED Gotenks the arrogant guy flies off to go fight Buu.
Given the prompt, Gotenks also can't become a Super Saiyan. However, the fusion itself is able to take their two respective power levels and give it a decent amount of power thanks to magic. As before, the first fight ends poorly and he flies back. Hercule continues to pamper Buu while Goten and Trunks continue training. After a little bit, they fuse again and fly out again. In the canon, Gotenks mostly fought against Super Buu. I'd change it here and have him primarily fight Fat Buu. Gotenks with his wacky techniques I think would play off of Fat Buu's carefree attitude and desire to have fun, and leaves some interesting possibilities. Like a Super Ghost Kamikaze getting hit by a Candy Beam, turning into candy which Buu eats, which then explodes in his mouth. This of course doesn't do much to him, but the entire set of fights between these two characters would be over-the-top silly anyway. I'd even have it so when Gotenks loses track of time and defuses, Buu splits himself in half to fight the two boys, all remarking on how fun it is of course. The two boys are saved by the timely arrival of Hercule, who offers Buu a roast turkey or something, I dunno.
After a few rounds of this back-and-forth with Gotenks managing to get out of there each time, Gotenks fuses once again and declares this time he's going to win. I'd have had Goten and Trunks slowly zenkai for each fight, thus making each Gotenks more powerful than the last. Fat Buu and Gotenks go at it again, only THIS time Gotenks gets a little too carried away with his DIE DIE Missile Barrage and Hercule accidentally gets caught in the blast. Not a direct hit of course, but the explosion's shockwave injures him. Buu flees the fight to go look at Hercule, and is able to heal him. This of course triggers the emergence of Evil Buu, who proceeds to fight Fat Buu. Gotenks points and laughs at this development, then promptly de-fuses and the two boys hide and watch the two Buus.
Evil Buu defeats and eats Fat Buu, in turn becoming Super Buu. While in the middle of transforming, Goten and Trunks flee back to the Lookout while Piccolo watches with horror. As his first act, Super Buu begins the Human Extinction, setting the tone for where this new Buu is. Hercule takes cover, but is miraculously spared thanks to Fat Buu's influence within Super Buu. Nonetheless, the Earth's population is wiped out with only those Z Fighters at the Lookout being spared. Also Tien, because he just dodges the things.
Since Super Buu can now sense ki, he heads off to the highest concentration of it. Thanks to Piccolo and the two boys, this is naturally the Lookout. Piccolo throws the two into the Time Chamber while he stalls Buu for time. At first he's able to get Buu to sit down and wait, but his patience runs out and Piccolo is forced to take him to Gotenks. Gotenks and Super Buu thus fight for the very first time and the poor fused Saiyan doesn't even know what hit him. Since Gotenks was the one accidentally responisble for injuring Hercule, Super Buu's pent-up malice is vented onto him. Super Buu has less stretchy durability like Fat Buu did (see above video for the Bio-Warrior to know what I mean) but makes up for it by being pissed off and not fighting for just fun like Fat Buu was.
Gotenks is on the losing end of the stick and Piccolo blows up the entrance to the Time Chamber in desperation. This is enough to shock Buu away from attacking Gotenks. Buu spazzes out and opens a portal out and is able to escape while Piccolo and Gotenks just barely miss it and despair. After a few tries the two are able to successfully force their way out as well, only to realize that everyone else on the Lookout is gone and Buu is somewhere causing random destruction for the sake of it. Piccolo and Goten/Trunks decide that this is likely going to be their final battle and, after finding a few senzu beans in the wreckage of Korin's Tower that survived Buu's rampage, go off to fight Buu. As before, Gotenks doesn't quite match up to Super Buu, though he is able to hold off long enough for Piccolo to charge a good-sized Special Beam Cannon, which he's able to land on Buu's face. Unfortunately it doesn't work and even with Piccolo's help the two just can't put him down.
Just as Gotenks de-fuses once again and all looks hopeless, Gohan arrives. Gohan's Training and Super BuuBacking up a bit, as before Supreme Kai and Kibito are able to teleport Gohan out and heal him. SK has Gohan pull out the Z Sword, theorizing that this legendary magical blade MUST be the answer to stopping Buu with his insane durability. Goku arrives at some point after fighting Buu, and helps Gohan train with the Z Sword. It breaks of course, and the Old Kai pops out and starts bringing out Gohan's potential.
What I'd change is what Goku does while Gohan's waiting. In canon, Goku mostly just sat around and watched events on Earth unfold. Here I'd have him meditate, Piccolo-style. As before in the Cell Saga, I had Goku take a day to go meditate with Piccolo, who is the master of this training technique except Golden Frieza cuz he's a prodigy LOL. SK and Kibito are still there for any expositional needs, so Goku not expositing along with them is fine. The entire Gotenks shenanigans above plays out, and Old Kai wraps up just in the nick of time. Kibito takes Gohan to Earth, while Goku wishes him luck.
Gohan arrives just as Gotenks de-fuses. After the required trash talk is done by both sides, Gohan and Super Buu begin fighting it out...and Gohan absolutely wrecks him. Piccolo is stunned that Gohan is fighting with at least the power of a Super Saiyan without being tensed up or anything, while Goten and Trunks cheer him on. After getting manhandled by Gohan for a fair bit, Buu tries blowing himself up and Gohan is able to get the others out of the way. Time passes, the survivors find Dende, and then Buu emerges once again. Dende quickly speeds out of there, with a random Hercule appearance nobody notices as he follows Dende as fast as his legs will take him, and Buu challenges Gotenks. Gohan insists that he's going to be doing the fighting here, but Buu says he has unfinished business with them and that he's going to make them pay for they did to his only friend.
This incenses the two boys, who fuse to show him what's what, against Gohan's saying he'll handle it, only to have Gotenks and poor Piccolo get absorbed into Buu. Thus the battle between Buutenks and Gohan begins. Buutenks is a sly one though. Thanks to Piccolo and Goten's memories, he knows everything he needs to about Gohan and uses it to his advantage. Not only does Gohan have a tough time phsyically, Buutenks starts making cracks in Gohan's psychological armor. Buutenks brings up every instance of failure Gohan's had when it came to handling strong opponents. How he wasn't enough against Frieza. How he needed daddy's help to defeat Cell. How he wasn't strong enough to stop Babadi from waking him up. That he was partly responsible for the death of every human on Earth thanks to him slacking off. How he let Piccolo and Goten down by letting them get absorbed. This throws Gohan off his game as Buutenks plays him like a fiddle.
Goku realizes Gohan needs help, makes the deal with the Old Kai to exchange lives, and heads down there with potara earrings in tow. He throws an earring to Gohan, but seeing as Buutenks has Piccolo's smarts in him, Buutenks fires off a blast to distract Gohan. Gohan loses track of the earring in order to dodge the ki blast. Just as Goku thinks he's going to have to fight Buutenks, Tien shows up and KIKOHOs him. Basically the exact same scene as before against Cell plays out, though this time unlike before with Cell where he was slowly forced down, Buu is able to slowly push himself UP. I'd imagine Buu would have a small little melting effect each time Tien smacks him with it, as he slowly ascends closer and closer to Tien. Goku is in the meantime helping Gohan search for the earring. Just when Tien is about to fire off a final KIKOHO Buu interrupts him with an incredibly frustrated "KIKO-NO!" and kills Tien.
Goku finds the earring, but Tien's sacrifice bought them just enough time for Buutenks to de-fuse. Goku relaxes and says that without Gotenks Buu should be child's play. Gohan agrees, then gets glomped by all the goo that Tien had melted off which had slowly crept up to Gohan. Buuhan revels in his new power, though as before Vegeta shows up in the nick of time for Goku to fuse with. Vegito, Buuhan, and Kid BuuNot much to say here. Vegeta is similarly upset that Goku held back during his fight, but says there's hope for Goku after all in embracing his Saiyan heritage. Goku interrupts him saying they need to fuse NOW. Vegeta is reluctant, but upon sensing Buuhan fast approaching grabs the earring and they fuse. Vegito devastates Buuhan and gets absorbed. Has a barrier up to prevent getting absorbed, splits up thanks to the chaotic magic that makes up Buu's being interfering with the potara's magic. Or "Buu's bad air" if we have to stick with that terminology. They find the pods containing Gohan, Piccolo and Goten/Trunks and rip them out. Buuhan reverts back into Super Buu. He manifests inside himself and tries to stop Goku and Vegeta, but Vegeta seizes the moment to also rip out Fat Buu's pod. This causes Super Buu to have a mental breakdown, and Goku and Vegeta escape with the pods in tow, minus Fat Buu's.
Kid Buu appears. As his first act, he'd blow up the Earth. This would be similar to and in contrast to Super Buu's first act in this modified timeline, where the first thing he did was simply murder the population. Kid Buu just blows up the planet. Goku and Vegeta intercept his first few attempts to blow up the planet, causing him to get irritated and charge up a BIG blast to do it. Goku and Vegeta retreat, and Goku grabs onto Hercule and Dende. They make their way over to Gohan's pod and the others, but there's no time since Buu was able to charge up and fire faster than they realized. Kibitokai pops in and saves Goku and Vegeta.
Kid Buu teleports on over to the World of the Kais, and the final showdown begins. For Kid Buu I'd have even less durability than Super Buu did, who had even less than Fat Buu, but his regeneration would be the greatest of the Buus. Kid Buu is of course one of the weakest Buus to date, though his savagery makes him one of the most dangerous ones. Vegeta goes first this time to try and make amends again, unlike in canon, so Goku has time to concentrate. Vegeta isn't able to last too long. Despite retaining some of the power boost he received from Babadi he can't keep up with Buu's ferocity. The regeneration doesn't help Vegeta either.
Goku finally feels he has no choice but to act now if he wants to save Vegeta's existence and reveals what he's been concentrating so hard on. He transforms into SS1, then goes Full Broly mode. Then, instead of sticking with that form he shrinks back down to his normal size, and appearance-wise this form is basically Super Saiyan 2. Essentially, the goal of FPSS1 was to try and control the rage and the leaking energy of the form. It was mostly successful in that regard when pitted up against Cell, though Cell was able to push Goku to the limits. The Broly form was essentially an unrestrained Super Saiyan. Massive power, but with more ki constantly leaking out as it was rising and overflowing. A useful form, but stamina is paramount against someone like Buu. Goku's new form is the result of his intense ki control (with a little help from Old Kai) essentially letting him conquer the rage of the Super Saiyan and use it's power with a clear head. In essence, this is the true version of the Super Saiyan form that even his predecessor from over 1,000 years ago, Broly, had not been able to do. One reason being Goku killed him when POPO sent him back in time, but that's in the past now.
This control is evident in that he's bulked back down after bulking back up. The overflowing ki no longer requires the massive buff body of Broly to sustain it. Goku has mastered it. He remarks that he wishes he had been fully prepared earlier when Buu woke up, but he hadn't quite finished working on the form yet. If he had tried it earlier he could've risked losing a handle on the overflowing energy and abruptly exploding. Thanks to his experience with the Kaioken and it's similar effects on the body, (which Goku occasionally made more use of as opposed to dropping it entirely) Goku was able to draw upon that as a base for handling it all.
Goku and Kid Buu begin fighting and thanks to having control of the rising energy of the Super Saiyan form he's able to precisely administer these blows. Rather than the occasional uncontrollable burst of energy Broly was prone to time and again, Goku is able to keep a lid on it and channel it correctly during the fight. Goku has actually surpassed Kid Buu at this point but is running into a crucial problem. Kid Buu just won't die. Buu isn't a problem you can just punch away. He's in his most raw form and nearly impossible to put down thanks to his magic-based physiology being at it's height. Conventional attacks just can't put him down.
Vegeta then hatches the plan to use the Namekian DBs to resurrect everyone and for Goku to use a Spirit Bomb to finish him. Goku says he'd need time to gather the energy, to which Vegeta drags himself over and says he'll buy him the time. As before, it goes badly for Vegeta. In desperation, Vegeta tries to use the Oozaru tactic since Babadi had also regrown his tail as part of the Majinization process. This buys a little more time, but Buu turns into a ball and basically ricochets and pinballs Oozaru Vegeta to near-death. Hercule, still on the planet, convinces everyone to give Goku the energy they need. Buu notices Hercule and moves in to attack him, but suddenly stops as Fat Buu forces himself out to defend Hercule. Far weaker than before, Fat Buu finds himself on the losing end of the fight. In the midst of the battle, the Moonblast that Vegeta made gets destroyed by the Buus fighting, which reverts him back to his normal form. Fat Buu is then quickly beaten and knocked aside. This leaves Vegeta ultimately drained and helpless, but Goku throws the Spirit Bomb at this point after Hercule carries him to safety. Goku then channels the energy of his Super Saiyan form into the Spirit Bomb for one final push, and the godly technique is able to eradicate the evil Kid Buu.
Blah blah, resurrect as a good guy please blah.
Fin. So that was my take on how things would've played out if only Goku had Super Saiyan. Is it perfect? No. Is it a bit fan-fictiony? Yeah. That was inevitable when essentially rewriting one of the most iconic things in DBZ. Ultimately I tried to balance it out so the Androids had infinite stamina/energy absorption (depending on the model), Cell had all the most lethal techniques and would've been a good technical fighter on top of retaining the stamina advantage of the androids, while Buu was just a magical creature with candy attacks and insane durability and regen that scaled up and down depending on the form. |
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Post by Xeno Black on Aug 12, 2017 2:57:04 GMT
AxalonHave you ever thought about making this synopsis into a novel on fanfiction? You definitely put alot of thought into this, and seeing it happening in some format will be cool to see, right?
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Post by Axalon on Aug 12, 2017 15:27:18 GMT
Xeno BlackI've thought about it, though I'd have to set aside some time to do it which isn't very likely currently. The synopsis I've just fired out when I had time available and then just submitted it as one big post. A fanfiction would eat up a lot more due to the need to describe events and have lines of dialogue and fight scenes and stuff. I'll probably get around to it when I'm a bit less busy. Plus I honestly tried to go with the Toriyama approach and tried not to think about it too hard (to make it feel more like actual DBZ creation methods), but ended up thinking and planning anyway a little bit with Broly and Buu. At any rate, this leaves us with a few DBZ stragglers. Namely a purple cat named Beerus. So Beerus is tricky. Trickier even than Buu in some areas. He's the direct result of all the power creep manifested in DBZ and set there as a big wall to Goku to say "I'm here. You aren't here. Deal with it". I also really like the concept of an actually powerful god in DB. Supreme Kai said he could kill Frieza in one hit of course, but this was long after Frieza stopped being a relevant character. I dunno, I just like that several arcs later Goku still hasn't surpassed Beerus. Beerus makes the entire existence of the Buu Saga also look incredibly stupid in hindsight. He would've been grumpy about being woken up, but you can be damn sure he'd prefer waking up a little too early as opposed to Buu killing Supreme Kai and thus killing him. But then the Buu Saga would've been over with a single HAKAI. Of course, this in turn creates it's OWN power creep as Goku naturally tries to gain power to one day overcome Beerus. Thankfully in this alternate world the power creep hasn't been quite so steep, though it does exist to some degree. This in turn brings up the issue of Super Saiyan God. ...Yeah.
The God of Destruction:So first off I'd keep Beerus in the same role he is now. He's the God of Destruction and he runs around with Whis and he HAKAIs things from time to time. Loves to sleep, loves to eat. I'd try to keep the Beerus retcons to a minimum here. Beerus didn't order Planet Vegeta destroyed, Frieza did it of his own free will. When Kid Buu attacked the Kaioshins with Bibidi it was an instant thing. No messing around the universe first. Literally the first thing Bibidi did was take him there. The speed of the attack caught the Kaioshins off-guard, and was so over so quickly with Kid Buu turning into Fat Buu and then getting sealed away that no one thought to run to Beerus for help. Because, y'know, THAT MAKES SENSE. Secondly, I'd do a little time skip and have this occur after Goku's already gone off to train Uub. The whole Goku fighting Uub thing from the EoZ can basically remain unchanged here, since Goku never took the fight 100% seriously and Uub needed training anyways to tap into his inner Buu. So this part of the story would basically start where DBGT once started, maybe slightly earlier, but nothing too major. Beerus wakes up one morning after a good long nap. As he's eating breakfast Whis tells him of things he's missed while he was asleep, namely Frieza and Buu both getting murdered. Beerus is interested that both of them were defeated so quickly in such a relatively short time frame, though alarmed when he realizes Supreme Kai risked killing himself out of some desire to prove himself and right past wrongs when Babadi and Dabura appeared to wake Buu up again. Whis chimes in that this young Kai might not even KNOW about Beerus or his relationship with him due to how he was still in training and jibes that maybe he would know more if Beerus slept a little less and actually talked to him. Beerus grudgingly mumbles something and then says he's interested when he learns Frieza and Buu were defeated by the same person. He then realizes that without Frieza around he doesn't have a lackey that would willingly destroy things while forging a space empire, meaning he actually has to do more work now that there isn't a space conqueror. So he decides to pay Goku a visit and Whis takes him to him. Beerus is hoping that Goku is like all the other Saiyans he knew so he can be lazy again while Goku builds a space empire like Frieza before him. Goku and Uub are training on the Lookout. The necessary introductions are made. Beerus notes that Uub must be Buu and says something about how he should've destroyed him years ago or something to that effect. Uub doesn't take very well to this and attacks Beerus, with the results being about as predictable as you'd imagine. This in turn gets Goku fired up and he challenges Beerus next. As before, Beerus sees no way that base Goku could defeat Frieza, and then Goku powers up to SS1. Beerus compliments him on his powerup and says that now he sees how he defeated Frieza. He remembers the last time he ran into a Legendary Super Saiyan a long while back, long before Goku or Broly, and that it had been some time. But after a few hits and knocking Goku down again says he doesn't see how that pitiful transformation let him defeat Buu. Goku then powers up again to his fully mastered form--which for the sake of convenience I'm just going to call SS2 from now on--and tackles Beerus again. Beerus praises this powerup as well, though becomes disappointed when he learns that this is all Goku is capable of. Goku is quickly defeated. Beerus then wonders whatever became of all the other Saiyans, and Whis reminds him that Frieza destroyed their planet. Beerus starts cursing Frieza for killing off any potential replacements and that now he'll have to actually do his job for once but then Whis notices that Vegeta is still around. In a huff, Beerus decides to visit him next. I'd keep King Kai knowing about Beerus and watching Goku fight him, and keep the usual Vegeta panicking and dancing, since I felt it was great to show how he'd progressed a little since the Buu Saga. The same man who threw away everything for his pride is now throwing away his pride, kicking it, and digging it into a grave for the sake of saving everyone from the wrath of Beerus, so I'd definitely keep that in. Piccolo, thanks to his Namekian hearing, overhears the initial conversation between Vegeta and Beerus and also joins in the hijinks, making it doubly awkward as these two serious characters clown around and try to keep this purple cat god happy. Eventually Beerus runs into Fat Buu and, having already met Uub, makes an expression best described as:  Shenanigans ensue and Bulma's party gets thrown into chaos, as happened before. Teen Gotenks makes an appearance only to not matter, Fat Buu gets punched into the ocean, Piccolo gets thrown into Gohan, taking them both out since Gohan didn't dodge, etc, etc. Vegeta goes ape on Beerus, literally, but it doesn't matter. Beerus haphazardly tries to get Vegeta to take Frieza's job, but has unfortunately asked a little too late and while Vegeta's a little too angry. Oozaru Vegeta is nonetheless defeated and Goku arrives once again. Beerus is surprised at Goku's resilience. Whis then recalls an ancient Saiyan legend about a Saiyan God, saying perhaps Goku is this person. Beerus refuses this of course, saying he's already defeated Goku at his peak. Dejected, he says he's just going to destroy this depressing little world and go take a nap. Goku pleads for a chance anyway. Vegeta chimes in (at some point having reverted back to normal) and says he's heard of the legend, but that's all it was. Even more rare and elusive than the 1,000 year Super Saiyan and hasn't been seen in ages. Not even a legend at this point, more a myth. After some discussion with King Kai and Old Kai, they eventually decide to gather the dragonballs and summon Shenron.
Shenron can't actually find a SG of course, nor can he just make someone that powerful. Seeing that Beerus is displeased with his offer, he hastily adds in that he could perhaps alter the ki of an individual to god ki, though this wouldn't last as mortals were not meant to wield god ki. Seeing as how the alternative is Death-by-Beerus they immediately accept Sheron's offer. Shenron, being unusually gracious with his information--likely because he's scared of Beerus--notes that the user has to be prepared as the transformation might be...difficult. Vegeta of course proclaims that HE'S going to be the SG but everyone else just goes with Goku, to Vegeta's sadness. Goku then undergoes the transformation, which at first looks like Goku's in extreme pain. After all, he's losing muscle mass!
Goku notes just how radically different it feels. His regular Super Saiyan ki could essentially be described by Broly as "rising and overflowing", a surge of bubbling energy constantly lashing to get out. Maximum mode has the body surge up to use as much ki as possible, though when it overflows the user has to let it out via ki expenditure. Goku's new mastered form, aka SS2, is able to keep a lid on it while productively using it without wasting it. But the god ki, the god ki is different. The god ki is calm. If Super Saiyan were a raging tempest SG is a serene body of water. Goku notes just how EASY everything feels now, which Beerus adds in a comment about how nice it is being a god.
Goku and Beerus fight. Goku does amazingly better. The fight continues and starts to heat up, it's then that Goku starts seeing the flaw between god ki and himself. As a mortal not truly meant for god ki he has to learn to live with it. God ki is a serene pool of water after all. This conflicts AMAZINGLY with Saiyan battle instincts. In essence, the more Goku naturally gets heated up for a fight, the harder the god ki is to use. Beerus doesn't have this problem because he's a true god, so if he throws a temper tantrum s'all good since the ki just works differently with him. Goku's experience with the Kaioken and dialing back the rage of the older Super Saiyan forms helps him out a bit, but Goku being Goku he just can't help himself and enjoys the fight. This causes the serene water to "boil" essentially, and further reduces the time limit. Suddenly the god ki has vanished and Goku has returned to mostly normal. He hasn't regained any muscle mass lost.
Beerus nonetheless had a decent time fighting him. Unfortunately the god ki has vanished into the ether. There is no absorbing or retaining it as happened originally. For giving him a little bit of sport though, Beerus says if Goku can land just one hit on him he'll spare the Earth. Goku goes SS2 and gives his best, but ultimately can't land a hit even with Beerus toying around with him. At the last second he takes a gamble and uses the Kaioken on top of his Super Saiyan form. Whis makes a note on how King Kai must've finally finished the technique, since the last time the two talked he was still developing it. Beerus barely has time to register that Goku's using a godly technique, that of King Kai's. He registers it just long enough to get shocked. The Super Kaioken, combined with Beerus clowning around and the shock of Goku using a godly technique is just enough to catch Beerus off-guard and tag him on the face. That last punch was all Goku had though, as the stresses of Kaioken in turn stressed out his Super Saiyan form which in turn stressed out his weakened body from temporarily having god ki.
Beerus nonetheless congratulates him and says he's going home. Whis comforts Goku and assures him that any damage the transformation did to his body can be corrected with lots of eating and training, which Goku happily says he excels at both of those fields. Whis recommends not to give into any desires to try that again, as the consequences for continually accessing god ki like that might have stacking penalties. Goku thanks the two, Beerus says his thing about Whis being even stronger and they depart. Goku is thankful that the two have shown him all these new possibilities and just how far he truly still has to go. Back on Earth everyone is grateful that they're still alive. Vegeta in particular is shocked at Goku's appearance, noting just how absolutely drained he looks. He says he has once again underestimated Goku and what he'll sacrifice for his friends and family (this time his own power) and sulks off somewhere. Goku tells everyone he'll be fine, but he's positively STARVING. He proceeds to dive into what's left of the feast from Bulma's party.
Skip forward a bit and Goku has returned to normal. He has luckily not suffered any ill effects and is back to fit condition. He resolves that he's going to keep training, Vegeta resolves that he won't rest and refuses to be left behind and deep off in space a very angry Frieza is headed to Earth. So that was my take on Super Saiyan God, how it would affect Goku, etc. It was a bit tricky, honestly. Rewriting the Cell/Buu Saga to only account for one Super Saiyan I think was harder though.
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Post by Ashanark on Aug 12, 2017 17:29:11 GMT
There's a ton of things in your writings that I like: -- Broly being a parallel for Goku. In the past. Goku and Vegeta have always been foils for each other, but I think Broly would do excellently as a second foil, showing what Goku could become if he's not careful.
-- Giving Super Saiyan risks: that as your power grows, you become more of a ragemonster.
-- Having Majin Vegeta being able to recover from injuries, zombie-like, just like Spopovich did with Videl. I'd like to think that was what made Majin Vegeta truly dangerous for Goku: just as strong, but unnaturally resilient. I would've loved to see a Majin Vegeta able to do stuff like this while fighting Fat Buu: it would make his ultimate sacrifice all that more shocking. ("Even with my durability, I think the best way to handle this guy is to blow myself up.")
-- Gotenks being the trigger for the Good Buu/Evil Buu split is a very interesting idea! It would really emphasize the "all of us Z-Fighters are awful people for jumping straight to the violent solution instead of trying to befriend Buu" that Piccolo implied on the Lookout. It's also a lot better than some conveniently evil sniper who likes killing people for the lolz and just so happens to be in the neighborhood. This is a great idea.
-- Super Buu doing Human Extinction right off the bat is nice, too. That's a great Establishing Character Moment!
-- Goku meditating during the Old Kai ritual is cool
-- Buu is able to absorb Gotenks because Gotenks is an idiot and ignores Gohan. I think that's more in-character for everybody.
-- Gohan misses the earring because he's dodging a ki blast, not because he's temporarily made an idiot by Toriyama.
-- How Goku gets god ki, and how its "serene water" feel presents troubles
-- Whis recognizes Kaioken. That'd be awesome, and a nice way to connect the Gods together. If I've understood correctly, the basic idea behind this premise--"once Goku goes Super Saiyan, he is the only Super Saiyan for a thousand years"--is to keep Super Saiyan a meaningful transformation. It became a Bargain Sale later on and not even useful, requiring advanced variations or ascended forms for the Saiyans to keep up. It really cheapens the impact of the series' single most powerful moment, the transformation against Frieza. The biggest difficulty, though, is avoiding the "GT problem:" if nobody else can achieve Goku's level, and Super Saiyan's always going to be relevant, you have to find ways to either 1) make Goku not fight, or 2) have other characters be relevant despite being way weaker than he is. Else he'll become the only person who does anything. This happens whenever there's a story where one character is massively more powerful than the others (like Superman in the Justice League), though it was especially noticeable in GT. One of Dragon Ball's virtues was that, in theory, anyone could be relevant if they put enough training in. The later sagas are less interesting because more and more characters drop off the map, but that's more Toriyama's fault than the in-universe mechanics. And even though Namek saga took humans out of the equation, by the Cell Games you still had five relevant characters anyway (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo) which is a pretty good number for a cast. If Goku's the only one who can go Super Saiyan, it's very hard to keep the cast large and diverse. This is why, if I had to make Super Saiyan unique, I'd have Goku die fighting Frieza. That'd lower all the PLs and allow more people to stay relevant without me having to find ways to keep Goku occupied  Most of my ideas are for a "low PL runthrough" of the series, getting rid of unnecessary powerups and stuff. I'd also redo Buu saga to make it Gohan-centric, since that seemed the intent at the time of the Cell saga. But those are posts for a different thread. |
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