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Post by supernekomajin on Aug 4, 2017 19:46:12 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu?
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Post by Gogeta on Aug 4, 2017 20:07:34 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu? By Super Buu do you mean U4 Buu? If so then slightly stronger than Vegito SSJ2 in terms of raw power but has the hax to beat Vegito outright. Outright the most dangerous participant in the tournament barring XXI and U20 Broly (currently). If you mean DBZ Super Buu then stronger than Kid Buu but weaker than Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks. |
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Post by Axalon on Aug 4, 2017 20:10:18 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu? Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up). - Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 Gotenks |
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Post by supernekomajin on Aug 5, 2017 16:15:07 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu? Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up). - Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 Gotenks I was asking because Xeno Vegeta said SSJ2 Vegeta = Base Super Buu, but that means a lot of different things to different people. I probably should've asked where you have him compared to Buu Arc SSJ3 Goku. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 5, 2017 21:28:39 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu? Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up). - Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksThis is quite debatable. They seemed pretty even for the most part. I'd put SSJ3 Kid Gotenks as equal to Super Buu. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 21:58:00 GMT
Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up). - Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksThis is quite debatable. They seemed pretty even for the most part. I'd put SSJ3 Kid Gotenks as equal to Super Buu. I was of the impression that Gotenks was weaker. But I guess I can agree with equal. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 5, 2017 22:04:09 GMT
This is quite debatable. They seemed pretty even for the most part. I'd put SSJ3 Kid Gotenks as equal to Super Buu. I was of the impression that Gotenks was weaker. But I guess I can agree with equal. He'd still be technically weaker due to some non-power related disadvantages: Very Solid Stamina vs. only 30 mins of fusion. Optimal fighting body vs. Kid Midget Body. And also... regeneration. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 22:11:39 GMT
I was of the impression that Gotenks was weaker. But I guess I can agree with equal. He'd still be technically weaker due to some non-power related disadvantages: Very Solid Stamina vs. only 30 mins of fusion. Optimal fighting body vs. Kid Midget Body. And also... regeneration. Naturally. But I was focusing on actual power level alone since it appeared Super Buu was piss fartin around with him the entire time as he sized up the extent of Gotenks' abilities. |
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Post by Axalon on Aug 5, 2017 22:33:55 GMT
Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up). - Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksThis is quite debatable. They seemed pretty even for the most part. I'd put SSJ3 Kid Gotenks as equal to Super Buu. Perhaps. Personally I'd put Buu as slightly stronger. Piccolo remarks that Gotenks hasn't made any physical progress at all against Buu, only mental progress. Piccolo does say that Buu and Gotenks are perhaps equal though. Unfortunately for Gotenks, more exposition gets delivered later after Gohan's arrival. Buu remarks on his inferiority to Gohan, but never does so for Gotenks. On top of that Buu's playing the long game. His main concern is Gohan, not Gotenks. Gotenks is trying to kill him, Buu's just waiting for Gohan. Factor Buu's plan into the mix along with his insane regeneration and the entire fight with Gotenks is suddenly put into question. I do think he was caught off guard by how strong Gotenks actually was though. |
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Post by VoidSlayer on Aug 5, 2017 22:35:59 GMT
How strong do you guys have Super Buu? Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up).- Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksIf we're talking DBZ Super Buu. then 1. Stronger than Vegeta, but still weaker than SS3 Goku 2. I'm 90% sure in the anime either Goten or Trunks mentioned that as Gotenks SS3 they were about the same. But of course this post hits the murky waters of Buu-saga power levels and how the various versions of Buu stack up. Which, lets face it, is highly debatable |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 5, 2017 22:41:30 GMT
Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up).- Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksIf we're talking DBZ Super Buu. then 1. Stronger than Vegeta, but still weaker than SS3 Goku2. I'm 90% sure in the anime either Goten or Trunks mentioned that as Gotenks SS3 they were about the same. But of course this post hits the murky waters of Buu-saga power levels and how the various versions of Buu stack up. Which, lets face it, is highly debatable Super Buu could knock the shit out of SSJ3 Goku just by flicking a finger. His dialogue with Vegeta while inside his body should be proof of that. Goku didn't want to get out of his body until they were fused again. Even after freeing Gohan, Piccolo, Goten/Trunks. This means Super Buu >>>> Vegeta SSJ2 post-Majin and SSJ3 Goku. Kid Buu (and arguably the original Fat Buu) was as strong as SSJ3 Goku, so Super Buu should be considerably stronger. |
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Post by Axalon on Aug 5, 2017 22:47:46 GMT
Super Buu? Not sure what Super Buu has to do with DBM but: - Stronger than Kid Buu - Stronger than Fat Buu - Stronger than Buu-saga Goku and Vegeta combined (read: not fused, just teamed up).- Weaker than Mystic Gohan by a great deal - Weaker than SS3 GotenksIf we're talking DBZ Super Buu. then 1. Stronger than Vegeta, but still weaker than SS3 Goku 2. I'm 90% sure in the anime either Goten or Trunks mentioned that as Gotenks SS3 they were about the same. But of course this post hits the murky waters of Buu-saga power levels and how the various versions of Buu stack up. Which, lets face it, is highly debatable 1. Nope, Goku considered fighting with Vegeta against Super Buu without fusing absolute suicide. So SS3 Goku + SS2 Vegeta < Super Buu. 2. I mean, this IS Gotenks we're talking about. Trunks also said Gohan was equal to Gotenks and it was only Goten nagging him about it that he grudgingly said Gohan was slightly stronger. |
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Post by VoidSlayer on Aug 5, 2017 23:28:59 GMT
AxalonConqueror GengI see this is where the Manga differs to the Anime- "The Miracle Happens Once... Will the Super Combination With Gohan Come About?" / "Ready to Fuse?"
"Kiseki wa Ichido... Naru ka Gohan to no Chōgattai" (奇跡は一度…なるか悟飯との超合体) June 7, 1995 November 6, 2002
Old Kai tells Supreme Kai and Kibito to try a fusion with their earrings, but only after they fuse together does he reveal that it is a permanent fusion. Dende heals Gohan's injuries, so to prevent this from happening again, Buu creates a giant energy ball and aims it at Dende. Just before it hits, it is deflected by Tien's Tri-Beam attack, who has decided to help, even though he is terribly outclassed. Buu tries again, but Goku suddenly appears and sends a disk of energy at the monster. It cuts off his legs and part of his head. His legs deal Tien a crushing kick which completely incapacitates him and then they return to Buu. Desperate to stop Majin Buu, Goku throws Gohan the other earring, but his aim is off and the earring is lost in the rubble. Goku goes Super Saiyan 3 in an attempt to hold Buu off while Gohan searches for the earring. Inside Super Buu, Gotenks' fusion wears off, splitting back into Trunks and Goten, causing Buu to lose well over a third of his power and his appearance to change. Realising what's happened, Goku declares he can now defeat Majin Buu without fusing with Gohan and prepares to fight. Knowing he needs a massive power increase, Buu causes the part of his head that was cut off earlier to suddenly engulf Gohan, just like Piccolo and Gotenks. He reabsorbs the blob containing Gohan, and is now even more powerful than he was with Gotenks absorbed.
In the anime it clearly shows that Goku as a SS3 could beat Super buu with Goten, Trunks and Piccolo still absorbed. Thus putting him in line with Mystic Gohan in power since they could both crush Super Buu, but would have bost lost to Buutenks and then Buuhan.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 5, 2017 23:31:27 GMT
Not even in the ANIME in general. Probably just some version of the English dub.
Let's remember SSJ3 Goku vs. Buu Gotenks is filler. In the dubs and subs I've seen Goku says Gohan could beat him alone, without needing to fuse. Not that he himself could finish Buu. If this was the case Goku SSJ3 + Gohan + TenShinHan could've finished off Buutenks earlier.
Goku isn't at all in Mystic Gohan level. Not even on Gotenks level. I don't think even in DBM he is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 23:35:29 GMT
Axalon Conqueror Geng I see this is where the Manga differs to the Anime- "The Miracle Happens Once... Will the Super Combination With Gohan Come About?" / "Ready to Fuse?"
"Kiseki wa Ichido... Naru ka Gohan to no Chōgattai" (奇跡は一度…なるか悟飯との超合体) June 7, 1995 November 6, 2002
Old Kai tells Supreme Kai and Kibito to try a fusion with their earrings, but only after they fuse together does he reveal that it is a permanent fusion. Dende heals Gohan's injuries, so to prevent this from happening again, Buu creates a giant energy ball and aims it at Dende. Just before it hits, it is deflected by Tien's Tri-Beam attack, who has decided to help, even though he is terribly outclassed. Buu tries again, but Goku suddenly appears and sends a disk of energy at the monster. It cuts off his legs and part of his head. His legs deal Tien a crushing kick which completely incapacitates him and then they return to Buu. Desperate to stop Majin Buu, Goku throws Gohan the other earring, but his aim is off and the earring is lost in the rubble. Goku goes Super Saiyan 3 in an attempt to hold Buu off while Gohan searches for the earring. Inside Super Buu, Gotenks' fusion wears off, splitting back into Trunks and Goten, causing Buu to lose well over a third of his power and his appearance to change. Realising what's happened, Goku declares he can now defeat Majin Buu without fusing with Gohan and prepares to fight. Knowing he needs a massive power increase, Buu causes the part of his head that was cut off earlier to suddenly engulf Gohan, just like Piccolo and Gotenks. He reabsorbs the blob containing Gohan, and is now even more powerful than he was with Gotenks absorbed.
In the anime it clearly shows that Goku as a SS3 could beat Super buu with Goten, Trunks and Piccolo still absorbed. Thus putting him in line with Mystic Gohan in power since they could both crush Super Buu, but would have bost lost to Buutenks and then Buuhan. Hmm, I distinctly recall Goku saying Gohan could easily handle him after Gotenks' fusion wore off and that he acknowledged later on that he stood no chance against Super Buu. |
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Post by VoidSlayer on Aug 5, 2017 23:47:01 GMT
Well the English Dub is still the anime, just with the English voices put in. I assume there are some variants but nevertheless as we are the English forum i'd assume the english dub is the one most of us are more familiar with. Hence why i take it as canon.
I know we once argued over this before but it still stands that this is the official funimation dub that i'd say most english-speaking countries are familiar with:
The 38-episode season originally ran from February 1995 to January 1996 in Japan on Fuji Television. The first English airing of the series was on Cartoon Network where Funimation Entertainment's dub of the series ran from October 2002 to April 2003. The episodes also aired in Canada, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Australia, and the Republic of Ireland.
Either way it seems that since this would be the version most english speaking countries are familiar with then that version would be 'Canon' to us. I mean i'll be the first to admit i haven't read any of the Manga, but as DBS has now shown us, you can have 2 versions of the same story. I think this is a case of that.
*Edit*
@invaderjim-
Maybe there is more then one English dub? I wouldn't know but the example i quoted is the one i'm most familiar with.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 23:53:24 GMT
Maybe there is more then one English dub? I wouldn't know but the example i quoted is the one i'm most familiar with. I have watched both sub and dub and I have no recollection of Goku saying he could take on Super Buu. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any English dubbing studio completed DBZ other than Funimation so unless there is some discrepancy between the original release of the dub and their efforts in Kai (which I haven't seen) then I'm thinkin the senility is kickin in early old man! |
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Post by VoidSlayer on Aug 5, 2017 23:56:47 GMT
Maybe there is more then one English dub? I wouldn't know but the example i quoted is the one i'm most familiar with. I have watched both sub and dub and I have no recollection of Goku saying he could take on Super Buu. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any English dubbing studio completed DBZ other than Funimation so unless there is some discrepancy between the original release of the dub and their efforts in Kai (which I haven't seen) then I'm thinkin the senility is kickin in early old man! And yet, thats the only one im familiar with (The Funimation Dub, which was on Cartoon network at the time). It was only when a spare bit of Buu absorbed Gohan to create BuuHan that Goku realised he'd get stomped, hard, even with Vegeta helping him out. Hence the creation of Vegetto. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 0:14:38 GMT
I have watched both sub and dub and I have no recollection of Goku saying he could take on Super Buu. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any English dubbing studio completed DBZ other than Funimation so unless there is some discrepancy between the original release of the dub and their efforts in Kai (which I haven't seen) then I'm thinkin the senility is kickin in early old man! And yet, thats the only one im familiar with (The Funimation Dub, which was on Cartoon network at the time). It was only when a spare bit of Buu absorbed Gohan to create BuuHan that Goku realised he'd get stomped, hard, even with Vegeta helping him out. Hence the creation of Vegetto. Ok, since I had nothing better to do I went and found the moment in question. Here @ 18:30 Goku only taunts Buu by saying "You don't plan to beat me like that do you?" then powers down. So neither of us are correct. I obviously confused the dub with the sub coz I'd be lying if I said I could recall the manga. I am open to the possibility that I am the one who is senile... That said Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu so the logic of Goku claiming he could take on Super Buu is wrong, especially since Goku said he and Vegeta would be effectively roflstomped even after freeing everyone so..... edit: Because I didn't want anyone to have the privilege of puttin me in my place I went and checked the sub ( here) and at 19:30 Goku says "Gohan can beat you without going to the trouble of combining with me" so yea. I mixed the versions up. Someone else can find the manga variant, I cbf. Granted, dub Goku sounded more like a badass but I would say the sub is the more accurate of the two. |
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Post by VoidSlayer on Aug 6, 2017 1:26:08 GMT
And yet, thats the only one im familiar with (The Funimation Dub, which was on Cartoon network at the time). It was only when a spare bit of Buu absorbed Gohan to create BuuHan that Goku realised he'd get stomped, hard, even with Vegeta helping him out. Hence the creation of Vegetto. Ok, since I had nothing better to do I went and found the moment in question. Here @ 18:30 Goku only taunts Buu by saying "You don't plan to beat me like that do you?" then powers down. So neither of us are correct. I obviously confused the dub with the sub coz I'd be lying if I said I could recall the manga. I am open to the possibility that I am the one who is senile... That said Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu so the logic of Goku claiming he could take on Super Buu is wrong, especially since Goku said he and Vegeta would be effectively roflstomped even after freeing everyone so..... edit: Because I didn't want anyone to have the privilege of puttin me in my place I went and checked the sub ( here) and at 19:30 Goku says "Gohan can beat you without going to the trouble of combining with me" so yea. I mixed the versions up. Someone else can find the manga variant, I cbf. Granted, dub Goku sounded more like a badass but I would say the sub is the more accurate of the two. I think what's most likely is stuff is lost in translation between the original Japanese, the Sub, then the English Dub. Plus lets face it- It's universally accepted that Toriyama is not exactly the dictionary definition of Consistency when it comes to writing this stuff haha. This is why i've always argued that Goku SS3 is roughly equivalent to Mystic Gohan. Because based of this they both would have stomped Super Buu, but lost to either Buutenks or Buuhan. Again there's no concrete answer one way or the other. And thats not even including the differences between the Manga, and the various Anime dubs and Subs. I've only watched the Dub of DBZ so if their are differences between that and the original Subbed episode i would not be aware of that. *Edit*At 14:25 it shows SS3 Goku fighting fairly evenly with Buutenks while Gohan looks for the earing. Not saying by any stretch he could win but he was clearly doing better than Gohan was. Then at 15:20 Gotenks defuses and Buu becomes becomes Buccolo. Then you're right- Goku says: "You aren't planning on defeating me like that are you." At 16:00- Goku says there's no need to fuse anymore. But then doesn't say who will get to defeat him. So it leaves it unclear who's stronger. |
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