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Post by Super Saiyan God Vegeto on Jul 9, 2021 1:40:26 GMT
Sooooooo......
How strong would we say Uub is now?
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Post by godjacob on Jul 9, 2021 1:52:45 GMT
Sooooooo...... How strong would we say Uub is now? Impossible to say till the fight further develops, but a guess would be least above standard SSj3 Goku but what seems a significant degree. Given Goku seemed unable to event react to Uub flanking him before being sent flying.
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Post by Dismaned on Jul 11, 2021 16:29:47 GMT
So were getting a special about the Vargas. I think it would be nice to include them here, So heres a simple question:
The Varga vs The Helior & The Varga vs The Tuffels
Who has the Best Technology?
I think its the Varga but only because they make up in what they lack in military for the ability to make allies, but that may be biased since i never read the novels for U19 or the Hanasia Novel
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Post by mbg on Jul 11, 2021 20:50:59 GMT
Sooooooo...... How strong would we say Uub is now? Kaioken has always been weird, power-wise. (Hey, who remembers Kaioken x2?) Guessing Uub at the start of the fight is hard to say, since he's clearly a) stronger than Goku, and b) not taking it seriously at first. After that point, I'd guess that "Maximum Kaioken" is about equal, and "Kaioken Transcended" is a mark above. If I'm to throw out a guess here, it seems like "Maximum Kaioken" would be x20 (since that's the highest it ever went in canon), and "Kaioken Transcended" would be x30 or x40, which would put Uub somewhere between half again as strong as Goku and double as strong, and isn't too far off from the results we see. Honestly, the real question is what it indicates for Goku. There's been some implications that Goku in his base form isn't too far off from Freeza (if not a bit weaker), and that Uub without Kaioken is at least a good deal stronger than 17 and 18 (based on him fighting Tidar). So either Uub's holding way back in that early bit, or Goku's a lot stronger than we guessed.
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Post by godjacob on Dec 28, 2021 3:22:00 GMT
So I presume we place SSj3 Vegeta over base/suppressed Cell?
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Post by Solus on Jan 4, 2022 18:20:20 GMT
So I presume we place SSj3 Vegeta over base/suppressed Cell? Is there any merit in giving a suppressed Cell his own place? I mean, he suppressed himself to Cell games level when fighting Dabura, to his initial ssj2 level against bojack and probably the same level against Vegeta. But he could vary his power up to his 100 %, so why make a seperate entry for a suppressed state?
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Feb 8, 2022 11:30:44 GMT
How strong do you think Android 18 (U14) got after she was repaired by Zen Buu when compared to her previous, un-maintained state? How strong do you think 17 will be if he gets repaired?
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Post by godjacob on Feb 8, 2022 18:03:30 GMT
How strong do you think Android 18 (U14) got after she was repaired by Zen Buu when compared to her previous, un-maintained state? How strong do you think 17 will be if he gets repaired? If I had to guess, being repaired means they are likely at their peak strength from the Trunks present timeline. Certainly at the minimum stronger than their un-maitained state.
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Post by NamelessSaiyan on Feb 10, 2022 15:44:22 GMT
How strong do you think Android 18 (U14) got after she was repaired by Zen Buu when compared to her previous, un-maintained state? How strong do you think 17 will be if he gets repaired? In pristine condition, probably stronger than she was when she schooled Vegeta in U18. 17 most certainly above fused Piccolo. The androids had some wear and tear from their fight with Trunks and Gohan in U12. When Imperfect Cell first showed up, 16 was the strongest warrior on U18's Earth. How close a pristine 17 would be to 16 is anyone's guess. A Majinized 17 in perfect condition on the other hand could be stronger than 16, though.
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Post by mbg on Apr 21, 2022 1:11:07 GMT
Right, might as well get to the discussion of how strong the Nameless Namekian was, since that's what's going on this chapter. Really, it's difficult to say, because not only is Namekian fusion really weird power-wise, but what we're dealing with in the case of Piccolo and Kami isn't even really a fusion so much as it is becoming whole again after being forcibly split in half. All we really have to go on are vague estimates; depending on where you read it, he could be anywhere from "about as strong as Saiyan Saga Vegeta" to "stronger than at least some forms of Freeza." We do know that by the time of DBM and after a quick Majin boost, he's managed to end up at around Android Saga levels of power, but since Piccolo is the kind of guy to actively train his power, especially considering the incredibly powerful and hostile Saiyans out there in U3, it's not improbable that he could have reached around Super Saiyan levels of power by simply training.
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Dec 22, 2022 13:01:30 GMT
Pretty sure it's mentioned in one of the novel chapters that base form Trunks (U12) is equal to SSJ2 Teen Gohan during the Cell Games. Is this accurate? If so, how strong are the U18 Saiyans when in base form?
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Post by Solus on Jan 14, 2023 14:53:42 GMT
Pretty sure it's mentioned in one of the novel chapters that base form Trunks (U12) is equal to SSJ2 Teen Gohan during the Cell Games. Is this accurate? If so, how strong are the U18 Saiyans when in base form? Definitely not true. If it was, Trunks would have had no problem to defeat U18 Vegeta, which he didn't.
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Jan 18, 2023 20:36:45 GMT
How strong would we say U9 Krillin is? Is he at Frieza's level or weaker?
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 21, 2023 1:57:49 GMT
How strong would we say U9 Krillin is? Is he at Frieza's level or weaker? Far weaker without Kaioken of course. With Max Kaioken (Max he can do), that is unknown since Krillin is actually smart about not "overdoing" it.
I mean it is possible that Krillin is stronger. Yamcha in U9 is stronger than Frieza for obvious reasons. Videl's Max Kaioken and her "Plus Ultra!" (or Transcendal) Kaioken is easily above Frieza and would reduce him to pulp. Tien's Ni-bai Kikoho would fucking obliterate Frieza and I am sure Tien can pull a decent Kaioken (though due to old age probably worse than Videl on that front) that puts him ahead of Frieza.
Better question I have is, who is stronger, Videl (U9) and Tien (U9) or Base Goku (U18) and Base Vegeta (U18)? Even if Goku and Vegeta are weaker than 4th Form Frieza I doubt it's by much but are humans somehow able to compete with high Base-level Saiyans without Kaioken? Cause it sure looks that way.
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Jan 23, 2023 14:55:41 GMT
How strong would we say U9 Krillin is? Is he at Frieza's level or weaker? Far weaker without Kaioken of course. With Max Kaioken (Max he can do), that is unknown since Krillin is actually smart about not "overdoing" it.
I mean it is possible that Krillin is stronger. Yamcha in U9 is stronger than Frieza for obvious reasons. Videl's Max Kaioken and her "Plus Ultra!" (or Transcendal) Kaioken is easily above Frieza and would reduce him to pulp. Tien's Ni-bai Kikoho would fucking obliterate Frieza and I am sure Tien can pull a decent Kaioken (though due to old age probably worse than Videl on that front) that puts him ahead of Frieza.
Better question I have is, who is stronger, Videl (U9) and Tien (U9) or Base Goku (U18) and Base Vegeta (U18)? Even if Goku and Vegeta are weaker than 4th Form Frieza I doubt it's by much but are humans somehow able to compete with high Base-level Saiyans without Kaioken? Cause it sure looks that way.
Iirc, Salagir once stated that Goku post-Buu in his base form was equal to SSJ Namek Goku. So unless the humans can reach SSJ-levels of power, I don't see them managing it unless Kaio-ken (or some other enchancement) is used.
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 28, 2023 16:28:35 GMT
Far weaker without Kaioken of course. With Max Kaioken (Max he can do), that is unknown since Krillin is actually smart about not "overdoing" it.
I mean it is possible that Krillin is stronger. Yamcha in U9 is stronger than Frieza for obvious reasons. Videl's Max Kaioken and her "Plus Ultra!" (or Transcendal) Kaioken is easily above Frieza and would reduce him to pulp. Tien's Ni-bai Kikoho would fucking obliterate Frieza and I am sure Tien can pull a decent Kaioken (though due to old age probably worse than Videl on that front) that puts him ahead of Frieza.
Better question I have is, who is stronger, Videl (U9) and Tien (U9) or Base Goku (U18) and Base Vegeta (U18)? Even if Goku and Vegeta are weaker than 4th Form Frieza I doubt it's by much but are humans somehow able to compete with high Base-level Saiyans without Kaioken? Cause it sure looks that way.
Iirc, Salagir once stated that Goku post-Buu in his base form was equal to SSJ Namek Goku. So unless the humans can reach SSJ-levels of power, I don't see them managing it unless Kaio-ken (or some other enchancement) is used. But he also says base Goku is weaker than 100% Frieza who is weaker than SSJ Goku (Frieza Arc) and I think he stuck with that. But I think that makes little sense given the massive gains Goku and Vegeta made over the years, SSJ Goku in the Cell Games is already so far above SSJ Goku on Namek and DBM is decades after that, even with diminishing returns they should still be much stronger not even counting higher SSJ levels. Though maybe the diminishing returns is that rough of a brick wall, after all. While Goku and Vegeta in the Buu Saga were stronger than Gohan was against Cell (which means Goku and Vegeta's base power is certainly higher than it was in the Cell Games), Goku and Vegeta mostly got stronger because of reaching higher levels.
As far as humans reaching SSJ-levels go (excluding Kaioken), we saw Videl smash a Majin Cell Jr in. It is possible that the Cell Jr is weaker but I see no reason as to why it would be or why Cell would enter a Cell Jr that was weaker than the ones Gohan demolished during the Cell Games. Videl was likely using Kaiokenx100 but if we were to assume that the Cell Jr is comparable to the one in the Cell Games (or stronger!), then this means her base is already well ahead of Frieza Arc Goku (his base of course). Tien is an unknown on this one. We don't have a good illustration of his power level. Though with a Nibai Kikoho, I imagine he would be a tough foe for nearly anyone that was below SSJ2-level.
Then we have Uub, the reincarnation of Buu of course. Many have said that Uub is an outlier because of that as far as physical strength goes but has Salagir even hinted at that? Uub is SSJ-level for sure but he basically needed Kaiokenx100 (His maximum Kaioken) to keep up with SSJ3 Goku and probably Kaokenx200 (Transcended, unknown multiplier, could have been x137.6 for all we know but I go with x200 since he was demolishing SSJ3 Goku, and himself of course). I think Uub might only be an outlier in terms of magic potential (As illustrated with him and U4 Buu interacting).
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Post by jbame on Jan 28, 2023 23:55:58 GMT
Then we have Uub, the reincarnation of Buu of course. Many have said that Uub is an outlier because of that as far as physical strength goes but has Salagir even hinted at that? Uub is SSJ-level for sure but he basically needed Kaiokenx100 (His maximum Kaioken) to keep up with SSJ3 Goku and probably Kaokenx200 (Transcended, unknown multiplier, could have been x137.6 for all we know but I go with x200 since he was demolishing SSJ3 Goku, and himself of course). I think Uub might only be an outlier in terms of magic potential (As illustrated with him and U4 Buu interacting).
If i recall correctly, in multiverse each super saiyan form is 10 times stronger than the one before. That means SSJ3 Goku is 5000 times stronger than base goku in multiverse canon. Yet Uub kept up with him using a Kaioken "x100" There is no way in hell Uub didn't inherit at least SOME of Majin Buu's power
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Post by moealkaf123 on Feb 2, 2023 20:32:37 GMT
So I presume we place SSj3 Vegeta over base/suppressed Cell? Is there any merit in giving a suppressed Cell his own place? I mean, he suppressed himself to Cell games level when fighting Dabura, to his initial ssj2 level against bojack and probably the same level against Vegeta. But he could vary his power up to his 100 %, so why make a seperate entry for a suppressed state? U18 Vegeta’s SS2 was at a similar level to SS3 U13 Vegeta as it was stated in the novel. SSJ3 is a ten times boost from SSJ2 in DBM. I’d say U18 Vegeta would be slightly under Gohan . As gohan’s power never changed.
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Post by Smilingblade3 on Feb 2, 2023 23:42:10 GMT
Is there any merit in giving a suppressed Cell his own place? I mean, he suppressed himself to Cell games level when fighting Dabura, to his initial ssj2 level against bojack and probably the same level against Vegeta. But he could vary his power up to his 100 %, so why make a seperate entry for a suppressed state? U18 Vegeta’s SS2 was at a similar level to SS3 U13 Vegeta as it was stated in the novel. SSJ3 is a ten times boost from SSJ2 in DBM. I’d say U18 Vegeta would be slightly under Gohan . As gohan’s power never changed. Do you have a reference as to where U18 Vegeta was said to be that strong? If he actually is comparable to U13 SSJ3 Vegeta, wouldn't it go against Salagir's whole premise that SSJ2 can never be stronger than SSJ3??
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Post by moealkaf123 on Feb 4, 2023 1:59:53 GMT
U18 Vegeta’s SS2 was at a similar level to SS3 U13 Vegeta as it was stated in the novel. SSJ3 is a ten times boost from SSJ2 in DBM. I’d say U18 Vegeta would be slightly under Gohan . As gohan’s power never changed. Do you have a reference as to where U18 Vegeta was said to be that strong? If he actually is comparable to U13 SSJ3 Vegeta, wouldn't it go against Salagir's whole premise that SSJ2 can never be stronger than SSJ3?? In the novelization of The tournament. Page 148 “ As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. “ this is when both vegeta’s were about to square off.
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