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Post by friezabigbrother on Jan 11, 2020 0:36:15 GMT
I imagine Vegeta quitting because after beating Goku he doesnt have any reason to proceed that in-character for me. As for the advantage, we know Vegeta have something to show, and he'll show that against Goku, probably gaining the upperhand, but Goku have something to show too, but it is more likely he hides until the end and you can't predict when Goku losing or not, he is always smiling even when losing, Vegeta can think that he already won just by putting Goku in dire straits for some time. Even if Vegeta wins (Which is debatable as it's likely that they're basically equal in power/skill), i don't think he would automatically forfeit as once he'd finally beaten Goku, he'd want to challenge whomever he'd be against in the next round. Of course by then it'd be likely he whole tournament would have gone to shit for one reason or another. In terms of predictions though, i predict if we get to their fight, it'll be an absolute clinic, Vegeta will unleash his secret transformation to counter Goku's much improved SS3, and just as he's gaining an insurmountable advantage the tournament gets interrupted, and sometime afterwards the big Endgame is resolved Vegeta will brag how he had Goku's number, only for Goku to eveal he had a secret move/ability that would have reversed Vegeta's advantage, thus leaving the battle still unresolved Could be this way too, but always something related to making Vegeta pissed and the battle between the two unresolved.
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Post by drewsaga on Feb 3, 2020 22:12:53 GMT
I imagine Vegeta quitting because after beating Goku he doesnt have any reason to proceed that in-character for me. As for the advantage, we know Vegeta have something to show, and he'll show that against Goku, probably gaining the upperhand, but Goku have something to show too, but it is more likely he hides until the end and you can't predict when Goku losing or not, he is always smiling even when losing, Vegeta can think that he already won just by putting Goku in dire straits for some time. Even if Vegeta wins (Which is debatable as it's likely that they're basically equal in power/skill), i don't think he would automatically forfeit as once he'd finally beaten Goku, he'd want to challenge whomever he'd be against in the next round. Of course by then it'd be likely he whole tournament would have gone to shit for one reason or another. In terms of predictions though, i predict if we get to their fight, it'll be an absolute clinic, Vegeta will unleash his secret transformation to counter Goku's much improved SS3, and just as he's gaining an insurmountable advantage the tournament gets interrupted, and sometime afterwards the big Endgame is resolved Vegeta will brag how he had Goku's number, only for Goku to eveal he had a secret move/ability that would have reversed Vegeta's advantage, thus leaving the battle still unresolved There is no way SSJ2 Vegeta can possibly match Cell now so Cell will force Vegeta to use his true power before Goku does and that's if Vegeta can even get by Cell.
This kind of assumes that Cell doesn't pose a threat and that SSJ2 Vegeta can deal with Cell, but that's not the case at all. Cell is well in SSJ3 territory without counting the Majin boost he currently has.
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Post by Gogeta on Feb 9, 2020 0:15:49 GMT
I actually don't see how Vegeta is getting past Cell period. Cell is comparable to Mystic Gohan atm which is beyond anything Goku is capable of at the moment and I doubt Vegeta's new power ends up boosting him to levels above Goku. Honestly while I think Vegeta's new power will give him a tremendous boost I still see SSJ3 Goku as being capable dealing with it.
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Post by Blaze on Feb 9, 2020 18:10:10 GMT
I'm gonna go with the idea that Vegeta vs Cell will require Vegeta to pull out all the stops, and that he'll manage to win which will show that he (and consequently Goku) have actually surpassed Gohan. But not in actual power, I'm expecting some innovative things from those two.
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Post by Ashanark on Feb 9, 2020 22:39:36 GMT
Idea: Vegito disowns Bra after the Majin Rebellion. U16 no longer trusts her. Distrusted by her family, hated by outside universes, broken in spirit because of how she happily became Babidi's slave, Bra withdraws even more inwards...
...and meets Goku.
This will happen after Vegito snaps. U4 Buu will probably already be dead/incapacitated because of XXI, leaving Gast the Big Good. He and Gohan will die against Vegito, leaving the fate of the multiverse to be dropped squarely into U18's hands. Bra, still angry and guilt-ridden, and now in despair because her father is unbeatable, will be drawn along in U18's wake. Having been disillusioned with her father-figure, she'll be able to view Goku from a less biased perspective than she did initially.
U16 is a dark version of U18 and it appears the missing ingredient responsible for the change is no Goku. Personally I think if Gohan couldn't fix Bra's issues then logically Goku shouldn't be able to, either, but from a story perspective-- and from a meta perspective-- having the main character of the franchise help redeem Bra, like he helped redeem Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Buu, would be very fitting.
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Post by Xeno Black on Feb 11, 2020 2:03:36 GMT
Idea: Vegito disowns Bra after the Majin Rebellion. U16 no longer trusts her. Distrusted by her family, hated by outside universes, broken in spirit because of how she happily became Babidi's slave, Bra withdraws even more inwards... ...and meets Goku. This will happen after Vegito snaps. U4 Buu will probably already be dead/incapacitated because of XXI, leaving Gast the Big Good. He and Gohan will die against Vegito, leaving the fate of the multiverse to be dropped squarely into U18's hands. Bra, still angry and guilt-ridden, and now in despair because her father is unbeatable, will be drawn along in U18's wake. Having been disillusioned with her father-figure, she'll be able to view Goku from a less biased perspective than she did initially. U16 is a dark version of U18 and it appears the missing ingredient responsible for the change is no Goku. Personally I think if Gohan couldn't fix Bra's issues then logically Goku shouldn't be able to, either, but from a story perspective-- and from a meta perspective-- having the main character of the franchise help redeem Bra, like he helped redeem Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Buu, would be very fitting. I really love this prediction. I hope it comes to fruition to give Son Goku, largely a side character that been heavily overshadowed by others the opportunity to correct a heavily flawed hybrid warrior. To add to it, but I would love to see Vegeta also having a equally large impact on Bra since he is Vegito's other half. He could relate to her since he was also majinized and once largely hated by his *soon to be* allies and friends. Something that small could make a depressed Bra realize her errors and fallacies through sheer relation. Ultimately I think seeing Gogeta defeating Vegito, the polar opposite of her own father will shed light in her dim horizons. At least that how I see it at the moment.
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Post by supergojita3 on Mar 10, 2020 2:55:28 GMT
I predicted that kakarot would be immortal, but I was wrong about the specifics in other regards. I figured kakarot would be too dumb to know he's immortal, and that only vegeta would know...but it was the opposite. vegeta was the last to know, and its common knowledge among the saiyans. I got this idea after reading the english novel, and vegeta said he'd kill radditz and kakarot. This was the workaround to this " plot point". Only vegeta knew, kept it a secret, and kakarot was secretly immortal with vegeta making empty threats to keep it that way. It was a legit good way to keep things interesting, keep kakarot immortal without spoiling it for the reader, and radditz worrying about things would work with him being the "unreliable narrator: trope and so on. Then I find out the translator was rewriting things for the lolz, and everyone non chalantly knows kakarot is unkillable. cool. So while I was right, and I did read the french novel in a translator and was wondering why things were way different, you gotta admit, the "he's not immortal" crowd did have good reason to be mad when it was revealed the novel in english was pisstranslated. so this is my anchor post so I can keep updated, as I didn't see this gorgeous thread til now.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 10, 2020 18:20:23 GMT
I predicted that kakarot would be immortal, but I was wrong about the specifics in other regards. I figured kakarot would be too dumb to know he's immortal, and that only vegeta would know...but it was the opposite. vegeta was the last to know, and its common knowledge among the saiyans. I got this idea after reading the english novel, and vegeta said he'd kill radditz and kakarot. This was the workaround to this " plot point". Only vegeta knew, kept it a secret, and kakarot was secretly immortal with vegeta making empty threats to keep it that way. It was a legit good way to keep things interesting, keep kakarot immortal without spoiling it for the reader, and radditz worrying about things would work with him being the "unreliable narrator: trope and so on. Then I find out the translator was rewriting things for the lolz, and everyone non chalantly knows kakarot is unkillable. cool. So while I was right, and I did read the french novel in a translator and was wondering why things were way different, you gotta admit, the "he's not immortal" crowd did have good reason to be mad when it was revealed the novel in english was pisstranslated. so this is my anchor post so I can keep updated, as I didn't see this gorgeous thread til now. Even when I was against immortality I'm pleased with the results. My main concerns would be these: -That he would be truly unbeatable -That he would have Buu-like regeneration It turns out his immortality basically only gives him a "last chance" to survive in near death situations. Kakarotto is dumb but not that much, he can develop quick plans or ideas when it's needed. He's possibly smarter than Goku in aspects that don't involve fighting, he compensates this by being cheap and dirty. He also hasn't truly been vaporized and rehatched like the Immortal Pandora would. I also hope he got immortality during his last years on Earth, so his wins vs. all the earth warriors wouldn't have been so cheap.
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Post by supergojita3 on Mar 11, 2020 1:07:47 GMT
I predicted that kakarot would be immortal, but I was wrong about the specifics in other regards. I figured kakarot would be too dumb to know he's immortal, and that only vegeta would know...but it was the opposite. vegeta was the last to know, and its common knowledge among the saiyans. I got this idea after reading the english novel, and vegeta said he'd kill radditz and kakarot. This was the workaround to this " plot point". Only vegeta knew, kept it a secret, and kakarot was secretly immortal with vegeta making empty threats to keep it that way. It was a legit good way to keep things interesting, keep kakarot immortal without spoiling it for the reader, and radditz worrying about things would work with him being the "unreliable narrator: trope and so on. Then I find out the translator was rewriting things for the lolz, and everyone non chalantly knows kakarot is unkillable. cool. So while I was right, and I did read the french novel in a translator and was wondering why things were way different, you gotta admit, the "he's not immortal" crowd did have good reason to be mad when it was revealed the novel in english was pisstranslated. so this is my anchor post so I can keep updated, as I didn't see this gorgeous thread til now. Even when I was against immortality I'm pleased with the results. My main concerns would be these: -That he would be truly unbeatable -That he would have Buu-like regeneration It turns out his immortality basically only gives him a "last chance" to survive in near death situations. Kakarotto is dumb but not that much, he can develop quick plans or ideas when it's needed. He's possibly smarter than Goku in aspects that don't involve fighting, he compensates this by being cheap and dirty. He also hasn't truly been vaporized and rehatched like the Immortal Pandora would. I also hope he got immortality during his last years on Earth, so his wins vs. all the earth warriors wouldn't have been so cheap. so now we need to predict what the immortality means. or rather the constitution of it. He's immortal, or is he? Perhaps he's not immortal, but unkillable? The distinction being that he can survive any attempt of a person to slay or murder him, but the passage of time will get him in the end. This depends on many factors. kakarot is quite short sighted in some instances, and brilliant in others. I guess we should assume kakarot made the wish, unless someone else did it, but k dawg knows he can't be killed, so its more likely that he made the wish himself, so maybe he worded it weird. Immortality is something that can mean many things depending on the author, the work of fiction, and so on. In the highlander series, the immortals live forever, can't be killed UNLESS the head is chopped off. Majin buu is immortal unless you destroy his entire body down to every last cell. King piccolo has eternal youth, and will live forever unless killed. or kami dies. Thats a wasted wish really. Zamasu and by extension garlic jr can't be killed unless something else happens that interferes with their original body. The merging process of potara can ruin an immortal body, and make them killable. So kakarot has what exactly? Does he regenerate from anything if at a snails pace? Certainly vegeta has tried vaporizing him, if anything to see what happens. He hates kakarot, and killed nappa for less in canon. I'm predicting that kakarot got immortality before killing piccolo (obviously) and also trained with piccolo. King piccolo thought he was a demon, with the whole tail thing, the great ape form and killer instinct. He raised him and the last straw was killing krillin, and for some reason that made him question things a bit, with his crazy prattling about krillin saying he'd kill kakarot, calling him a demon. kakarot gathers the dragon balls, makes himself "unkillable" and due to his good plan for the short term, becomes essentially immortal, but has aging. So even if he is a true immortal, without the youth aspect, he might live forever after all, and grow old, wither to the point his power level is less than 5 after 130 or more years, and is just a vegetable after that. Dying would be a mercy to a battle savage like kakarot. So his immortality could be what we think it is, or the monkey paw style with a huge drawback, or best case scenario, he has youth, healing, and whatever else we assume immortals have. Worst case scenario, he dies of old age and can't be killed by brute force or killed by things that aren't attributed to natural causes.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 13, 2020 5:47:50 GMT
Before Super I was wondering if Toriyama would make it so if someone actually did wish for immortality with the Dragon Balls that it would give them longevity variety, but could still be slayed in battle. That sounds like something he would do and have a unexpected twist. Like if Vegeta got his wish on Namek, tried to take on Freeza and learned to his dismay that he can still be killed and rather than being invincible immoral who is unable to be killed like he was expecting. After all the gods in DB can all be killed, but have long life spans. That form of longevity immortal is established.
Dragon Ball Multiverse has give us its spin on it and we know the magical functionally keeps Kakarot from actually dying through most things. But he doesn't seem to be able to regenerate at high speeds or have infinite stamina. I'm willing to bet Raditz found Kakarot and put his head back on its body. U16 Gohan completely destroyed his body until he was head. I'm willing to bet Kakarot's immortality will not restore his body and unless a wish is made to restore his body he is just stuck as a head. Perhaps the limit of immortality by itself is that Kakarot will not technical die, but his body is still vulnerable. Perhaps it needs his head to remain to fit those requirements. Or maybe Kakarot's whole body can be destroyed, but instead of his soul traveling to Otherworld and dying that his soul will remain in the mortal world forever. The downside being that without a body Kakarot will be reduced to nothing but a mere specter that cannot physically interact with the mortal world anymore and be no better than if he had just died regularly. U13 Kakarot's ultimate fate could be his body is completely destroyed and his soul is left wandering aimlessly in his own personal hell of being alone and unable to interact with anyone.
I think Cell is an immortal who can die of old age though. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think with dna Gero gathered to make Cell that he will have a long lifespan like the Frost Demons and Nameks, and thanks to the Saiyan dna will stay in his physical prime for most of his life, but Gero was unable to make to extend his lifespan infinitely and the whole Cell Junior design was created to allow Cell to reproduce and thus allow his creation to continue to exist in some form by allowing these children to grow and reproduce as well. I could U17 Cell's fate being he believes he will never die of old age only to find out centuries later in U17 that this belief is wrong and he will die like everyone else and lose his shit because he already destroyed the Dragon Balls in his universe thinking he didn't need them to extend his life infinitely.
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Post by supergojita3 on Mar 15, 2020 5:19:02 GMT
Before Super I was wondering if Toriyama would make it so if someone actually did wish for immortality with the Dragon Balls that it would give them longevity variety, but could still be slayed in battle. That sounds like something he would do and have a unexpected twist. Like if Vegeta got his wish on Namek, tried to take on Freeza and learned to his dismay that he can still be killed and rather than being invincible immoral who is unable to be killed like he was expecting. After all the gods in DB can all be killed, but have long life spans. That form of longevity immortal is established.
Dragon Ball Multiverse has give us its spin on it and we know the magical functionally keeps Kakarot from actually dying through most things. But he doesn't seem to be able to regenerate at high speeds or have infinite stamina. I'm willing to bet Raditz found Kakarot and put his head back on its body. U16 Gohan completely destroyed his body until he was head. I'm willing to bet Kakarot's immortality will not restore his body and unless a wish is made to restore his body he is just stuck as a head. Perhaps the limit of immortality by itself is that Kakarot will not technical die, but his body is still vulnerable. Perhaps it needs his head to remain to fit those requirements. Or maybe Kakarot's whole body can be destroyed, but instead of his soul traveling to Otherworld and dying that his soul will remain in the mortal world forever. The downside being that without a body Kakarot will be reduced to nothing but a mere specter that cannot physically interact with the mortal world anymore and be no better than if he had just died regularly. U13 Kakarot's ultimate fate could be his body is completely destroyed and his soul is left wandering aimlessly in his own personal hell of being alone and unable to interact with anyone.
I think Cell is an immortal who can die of old age though. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think with dna Gero gathered to make Cell that he will have a long lifespan like the Frost Demons and Nameks, and thanks to the Saiyan dna will stay in his physical prime for most of his life, but Gero was unable to make to extend his lifespan infinitely and the whole Cell Junior design was created to allow Cell to reproduce and thus allow his creation to continue to exist in some form by allowing these children to grow and reproduce as well. I could U17 Cell's fate being he believes he will never die of old age only to find out centuries later in U17 that this belief is wrong and he will die like everyone else and lose his shit because he already destroyed the Dragon Balls in his universe thinking he didn't need them to extend his life infinitely. I'm thinking kakarot regenerates, but like really slowly. And if his body is destroyed, he just regenerates from the soul like an otherworld body. except he stays on the living plane and pops back after a period of time. I can't see vegeta not offing kakarot considering he killed nappa for less in canon, and kakarot didn't just simply lose a battle becoming crippled, like nappa, he openly defies him, which is why he was going to kill goku in canon as well. but gokus was like a 4, kakarots a 10 as far as open defiance goes. plus hes insane, so even if he were to off him ina way he's a living head, and can't grow back, its better than leaving him alive, now that he doesn't need him, as he is pretty much the strongest in his universe, and any further nonsense from him would be a detriment.
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Post by عمار on Mar 15, 2020 15:54:53 GMT
Before Super I was wondering if Toriyama would make it so if someone actually did wish for immortality with the Dragon Balls that it would give them longevity variety, but could still be slayed in battle. That sounds like something he would do and have a unexpected twist. Like if Vegeta got his wish on Namek, tried to take on Freeza and learned to his dismay that he can still be killed and rather than being invincible immoral who is unable to be killed like he was expecting. After all the gods in DB can all be killed, but have long life spans. That form of longevity immortal is established.
Dragon Ball Multiverse has give us its spin on it and we know the magical functionally keeps Kakarot from actually dying through most things. But he doesn't seem to be able to regenerate at high speeds or have infinite stamina. I'm willing to bet Raditz found Kakarot and put his head back on its body. U16 Gohan completely destroyed his body until he was head. I'm willing to bet Kakarot's immortality will not restore his body and unless a wish is made to restore his body he is just stuck as a head. Perhaps the limit of immortality by itself is that Kakarot will not technical die, but his body is still vulnerable. Perhaps it needs his head to remain to fit those requirements. Or maybe Kakarot's whole body can be destroyed, but instead of his soul traveling to Otherworld and dying that his soul will remain in the mortal world forever. The downside being that without a body Kakarot will be reduced to nothing but a mere specter that cannot physically interact with the mortal world anymore and be no better than if he had just died regularly. U13 Kakarot's ultimate fate could be his body is completely destroyed and his soul is left wandering aimlessly in his own personal hell of being alone and unable to interact with anyone.
I think Cell is an immortal who can die of old age though. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think with dna Gero gathered to make Cell that he will have a long lifespan like the Frost Demons and Nameks, and thanks to the Saiyan dna will stay in his physical prime for most of his life, but Gero was unable to make to extend his lifespan infinitely and the whole Cell Junior design was created to allow Cell to reproduce and thus allow his creation to continue to exist in some form by allowing these children to grow and reproduce as well. I could U17 Cell's fate being he believes he will never die of old age only to find out centuries later in U17 that this belief is wrong and he will die like everyone else and lose his shit because he already destroyed the Dragon Balls in his universe thinking he didn't need them to extend his life infinitely. I'm thinking kakarot regenerates, but like really slowly. And if his body is destroyed, he just regenerates from the soul like an otherworld body. except he stays on the living plane and pops back after a period of time. I can't see vegeta not offing kakarot considering he killed nappa for less in canon, and kakarot didn't just simply lose a battle becoming crippled, like nappa, he openly defies him, which is why he was going to kill goku in canon as well. but gokus was like a 4, kakarots a 10 as far as open defiance goes. plus hes insane, so even if he were to off him ina way he's a living head, and can't grow back, its better than leaving him alive, now that he doesn't need him, as he is pretty much the strongest in his universe, and any further nonsense from him would be a detriment. Don't know about this...Salagir comment on page 1701 makes it seems that our immortal maniac can't regenerate.
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Post by supergojita3 on Mar 15, 2020 18:16:03 GMT
I'm thinking kakarot regenerates, but like really slowly. And if his body is destroyed, he just regenerates from the soul like an otherworld body. except he stays on the living plane and pops back after a period of time. I can't see vegeta not offing kakarot considering he killed nappa for less in canon, and kakarot didn't just simply lose a battle becoming crippled, like nappa, he openly defies him, which is why he was going to kill goku in canon as well. but gokus was like a 4, kakarots a 10 as far as open defiance goes. plus hes insane, so even if he were to off him ina way he's a living head, and can't grow back, its better than leaving him alive, now that he doesn't need him, as he is pretty much the strongest in his universe, and any further nonsense from him would be a detriment. Don't know about this...Salagir comment on page 1701 makes it seems that our immortal maniac can't regenerate. But that can't be the case because he's immortal. So, perhaps theres another mistranslation issue, likely from salagir not proofreading his comments much like he doesn't proof read the novel.
In fact, it might just turn out that the commenter called "salagir" is a fake.
I'm not kidding or being sarcastic and you should take me 100% literally. This is not a drill. Salagir died years ago and his evil twin took over, and made kakarot immortal just to spite king 4.
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Post by عمار on Mar 15, 2020 21:40:58 GMT
But that can't be the case because he's immortal. So, perhaps theres another mistranslation issue, likely from salagir not proofreading his comments much like he doesn't proof read the novel. That's the thing. I don't really know how Salagir describes "immortality". In fact, it might just turn out that the commenter called "salagir" is a fake.
I'm not kidding or being sarcastic and you should take me 100% literally. This is not a drill. Salagir died years ago and his evil twin took over, and made kakarot immortal just to spite king 4.
Honestly, this won't be the craziest thing that happened these past 4 years...
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Post by Andres on Mar 19, 2020 16:03:53 GMT
While Kakarotto may not be able to regenerate, he's still perfectly capable of HEALING. We don't know how his immortality works yet, but he survived the laser through the heart, impalement, beheading, Ultra Waving (twice) and whatever happened on Earth.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but maybe it's just a... SUSPENSION OF DEATH. The laser should've killed him because a punctured heart will kill in minutes because of blood loss. But if Kakarotto is in this "suspension of death" state, a punctured heart would never kill him because his heart muscle will eventually heal and close the wound.
Saiyans are incredibly resilient and need serious beating to be put down. Vegeta survived things on Earth that would kill most other races and was still limping, healthy enough to reach the pod and escape. Goku survived the effects of Kaioken x4 plus Vegeta crushing every single bone in his body. Gohan survived Reecome's broken neck for minutes until Goku arrived on the battlefield.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but I guess enough power could potentially defeat his immortality. Vegetto could decimate every single atom in his body and nothing would remain. Nothing remaining means nothing to heal. But his soul might be immortal and wandering, waiting for his body to be put back. Or whatever.
Or maybe his immortality prevents him from complete annihilation. I don't know. We still don't know his wish. Immortality does not mean invulnerability, and it also does not mean eternal life. Roshi cannot die of old age or disease, but he can still be killed. He has eternal life, yet not immortality nor invulnerability. The only true immortal in the DB series seems to be Zamasu, as he could not be killed and he also regenerated. He had the three items.
Garlic Jr was immortal and eternal. But could enough power destroy his body? He only faced Saiyan Saga tier opponents.
I don't know man. Immortality is a tough cookie to handle. The specifics are everything.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 19, 2020 18:48:13 GMT
While Kakarotto may not be able to regenerate, he's still perfectly capable of HEALING. We don't know how his immortality works yet, but he survived the laser through the heart, impalement, beheading, Ultra Waving (twice) and whatever happened on Earth.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but maybe it's just a... SUSPENSION OF DEATH. The laser should've killed him because a punctured heart will kill in minutes because of blood loss. But if Kakarotto is in this "suspension of death" state, a punctured heart would never kill him because his heart muscle will eventually heal and close the wound.
Saiyans are incredibly resilient and need serious beating to be put down. Vegeta survived things on Earth that would kill most other races and was still limping, healthy enough to reach the pod and escape. Goku survived the effects of Kaioken x4 plus Vegeta crushing every single bone in his body. Gohan survived Reecome's broken neck for minutes until Goku arrived on the battlefield.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but I guess enough power could potentially defeat his immortality. Vegetto could decimate every single atom in his body and nothing would remain. Nothing remaining means nothing to heal. But his soul might be immortal and wandering, waiting for his body to be put back. Or whatever.
Or maybe his immortality prevents him from complete annihilation. I don't know. We still don't know his wish. Immortality does not mean invulnerability, and it also does not mean eternal life. Roshi cannot die of old age or disease, but he can still be killed. He has eternal life, yet not immortality nor invulnerability. The only true immortal in the DB series seems to be Zamasu, as he could not be killed and he also regenerated. He had the three items.
Garlic Jr was immortal and eternal. But could enough power destroy his body? He only faced Saiyan Saga tier opponents.
I don't know man. Immortality is a tough cookie to handle. The specifics are everything. Then Kakarotto on a functional level is basically just a Saiyan with Frost Demon resilience.
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Post by Andres on Mar 19, 2020 19:02:23 GMT
While Kakarotto may not be able to regenerate, he's still perfectly capable of HEALING. We don't know how his immortality works yet, but he survived the laser through the heart, impalement, beheading, Ultra Waving (twice) and whatever happened on Earth.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but maybe it's just a... SUSPENSION OF DEATH. The laser should've killed him because a punctured heart will kill in minutes because of blood loss. But if Kakarotto is in this "suspension of death" state, a punctured heart would never kill him because his heart muscle will eventually heal and close the wound.
Saiyans are incredibly resilient and need serious beating to be put down. Vegeta survived things on Earth that would kill most other races and was still limping, healthy enough to reach the pod and escape. Goku survived the effects of Kaioken x4 plus Vegeta crushing every single bone in his body. Gohan survived Reecome's broken neck for minutes until Goku arrived on the battlefield.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but I guess enough power could potentially defeat his immortality. Vegetto could decimate every single atom in his body and nothing would remain. Nothing remaining means nothing to heal. But his soul might be immortal and wandering, waiting for his body to be put back. Or whatever.
Or maybe his immortality prevents him from complete annihilation. I don't know. We still don't know his wish. Immortality does not mean invulnerability, and it also does not mean eternal life. Roshi cannot die of old age or disease, but he can still be killed. He has eternal life, yet not immortality nor invulnerability. The only true immortal in the DB series seems to be Zamasu, as he could not be killed and he also regenerated. He had the three items.
Garlic Jr was immortal and eternal. But could enough power destroy his body? He only faced Saiyan Saga tier opponents.
I don't know man. Immortality is a tough cookie to handle. The specifics are everything. Then Kakarotto on a functional level is basically just a Saiyan with Frost Demon resilience. I REALLY like that definition.
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Post by Eldagusto on Mar 29, 2020 3:40:43 GMT
While Kakarotto may not be able to regenerate, he's still perfectly capable of HEALING. We don't know how his immortality works yet, but he survived the laser through the heart, impalement, beheading, Ultra Waving (twice) and whatever happened on Earth.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but maybe it's just a... SUSPENSION OF DEATH. The laser should've killed him because a punctured heart will kill in minutes because of blood loss. But if Kakarotto is in this "suspension of death" state, a punctured heart would never kill him because his heart muscle will eventually heal and close the wound.
Saiyans are incredibly resilient and need serious beating to be put down. Vegeta survived things on Earth that would kill most other races and was still limping, healthy enough to reach the pod and escape. Goku survived the effects of Kaioken x4 plus Vegeta crushing every single bone in his body. Gohan survived Reecome's broken neck for minutes until Goku arrived on the battlefield.
We still need specifics on how his immortality works, but I guess enough power could potentially defeat his immortality. Vegetto could decimate every single atom in his body and nothing would remain. Nothing remaining means nothing to heal. But his soul might be immortal and wandering, waiting for his body to be put back. Or whatever.
Or maybe his immortality prevents him from complete annihilation. I don't know. We still don't know his wish. Immortality does not mean invulnerability, and it also does not mean eternal life. Roshi cannot die of old age or disease, but he can still be killed. He has eternal life, yet not immortality nor invulnerability. The only true immortal in the DB series seems to be Zamasu, as he could not be killed and he also regenerated. He had the three items.
Garlic Jr was immortal and eternal. But could enough power destroy his body? He only faced Saiyan Saga tier opponents.
I don't know man. Immortality is a tough cookie to handle. The specifics are everything.
Immortality literally does mean eternal life, that is its classic definition. Roshi has the tradition Sages immortality as a Sennin. He is a 仙. And a Laser through the heart would be cauterized.
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Post by SuperVegeta on Apr 5, 2020 4:47:17 GMT
In all honesty, Kakarotto is just a head now, I could see the nameks having to heal him or, more likely, have to wish for him to be whole again, ( But a Mecha Kakarotto would be cool).
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Post by Eldagusto on Apr 8, 2020 6:16:20 GMT
Don't know about this...Salagir comment on page 1701 makes it seems that our immortal maniac can't regenerate. But that can't be the case because he's immortal. So, perhaps theres another mistranslation issue, likely from salagir not proofreading his comments much like he doesn't proof read the novel.
In fact, it might just turn out that the commenter called "salagir" is a fake.
I'm not kidding or being sarcastic and you should take me 100% literally. This is not a drill. Salagir died years ago and his evil twin took over, and made kakarot immortal just to spite king 4.
It feels to me that SSJ3 Atomizing Kakarot and it works kind of Cheats the Wish. I would prefer it that it results in him being like an incorporeal consciousness, like maybe with an eternity as a ki cloud he would develop the capacity to effect the universe around him, like Ego in Guardians 2 spontaneously generating in space, a Boltzmann Brain or living ghost. Though that can be reduced with say helpful aliens communicating with him and maybe even constructing a Shell. But I feel you should need some sort of Immortality Destroying Soul Slaying technique to counteract the Mystical Wish.
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