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Post by Gogeta on Nov 2, 2017 3:16:02 GMT
YES, I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MORE GOHAN FIGHTING CELL IN GLORIOUS COMBA-- *sees Piccolo and Frieza about to square off instead* ...Realistically I don't expect much from that particular fight either--UNLESS Salagir's intention here is to show that Majinization bumps you up more than just a single tier--because otherwise Piccolo should still clean Frieza's clock, Majin spell or no Majin spell, given that Frieza isn't even able to defeat a raw SS1 and Piccolo has long since transcended that level of power. So in essence my reaction can be summed up as: I don't really expect Freeza or Cooler doing much, but getting one shot by Piccolo either. I get it since he finally lets Piccolo get the chance for sweet revenge over the brothers for how badly they beat him down on Namek and Earth. I'm possibly getting my hopes for nothing, but I'm hoping to see a good showing with Piccolo against Ginyu-Cold. He is probably still nowhere near Perfect Cell's level, but I'm hoping he won't give Ginyu-Cold the chance to transform and fight him in his true form. That could be a entertaining battle to me. Of course I wouldn't oppose Piccolo revealing he knows Kaioken suddenly and using it to close the gap between him and Ginyu-Cold augmented form. Piccolo needs more love in the comic. I'm curious at how strong he actually is in the comic. Is he at least somewhat close to Perfect Cell's power after 2 decades or did he stop training too and had his power degrade as a result? I wish he had competed in the tournament in the first place though for sport if nothing else. Piccolo is strong enough to beat a Cell Jr. but thinks Cell would be just out of reach for him. I'm going to guess he's stronger than Cell Saga MSSJ Level and to be fair to him I would estimate him at slightly above Buu Saga SSJ Level.
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Post by Xeno Black on Nov 2, 2017 3:50:28 GMT
Does anyone know who it is who is telling Frieza that they will avenge the namekian race? It cannot be King Piccolo since he is both majinized and does not care about the namekian heritage that much. U10 Nail is gone along with Cargot, Lumaca, and Caracoru. And big brother Gast is stranded on the imprisonment planet, thus lowering the potential candidates. So my guesses will be: 1. U18 Piccolo (second most likely one). 2. U16 Piccolo, though it will make no sense since he would have to leave Videl defenseless as his prodigy fights against Perfect Cell alone. 3. Namekian organizer or spectator (most likely). 4. Mary Sue for the lolz. 5. THE Nail, you know the badass one in U8 who was presumed deceased in his original body. Now of course scenario #5 is one-hundred percent impossible for a number of reasons, but if it is him, then I must say this will be such a unique development, almost to the levels that Cold was Captain Ginyu. Everyone here knows that I am a big fan of this version of Nail, and seeing him back in some shape or form will bring a smile to my face. Granted this is all wishful thinking, but I cannot help it since this unknown person said that he has an old account to settle for the namekian race. How many people you can think of that will say such a thing in this context and situation? Not many for me, which for some reason boils down to Nail, which seems both impossible and unforeseen. However if it is Nail, how did he survived, escaped Planet Vuunveenly, got healed, stayed out of the radar for 30 years, and infiltrated the Multiverse Tournament unnoticed. Ahh I am probably digging too far in a rabbit hole that leads to nowhere, but it is fun to think of a solution to a seemingly impossible outcome such as this. However one crack theory can be plausible, something everyone in this forum at one point laughed at that may hold some weight now. If Nail somehow attained the power of body change, then it is likely he used it to survive while grinding for the right moment to strike. If so, THIS will be absolutely beautiful foreshadowing that no one took seriously beforehand. Straight up I will applaud Salagir, and take back mostly everything I said about him and his writing. And if this is the case, imagine Majin Ginyu's reaction that one of his prior victims copied his most prized attack, and did the same thing he did for many years which was lurking in Frieza's armed forces. The parallels between these two will be undeniable, especially if Nail switches with Frieza to attain his body and powers. Now if we go with this, what body is Nail occupying in? Was it Jeice, Recoome, or some pitiful low-level soldier? God I cannot wait to Sunday to get a revelation on this, and despite the odds, I hope it really is Nail.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 4:03:17 GMT
Axalon to be honest I like to think that Hercule Satan is around Roshi's power level. He's capable of doing things that most normal fighters can't even do and Gohan specifically stated that Videl has surpassed her father by quite a bit. I'd say that Hercule is at the very weakest around Ranfan's PL of 80. I'd like to say that Videl is about 3x stronger than her father, so if you take 80 x 3, you get around 240. King Piccolo had a PL of 260. As for Spopovich having his neck snapped by her, I think it's because he was cocky and knew that thanks to the Majinization that he could survive his head being spun around. I would like to think that if Raditz knew he could survive his neck being snapped that he too would be willing to lower his protective Ki defenses and let Goku snap his neck just to fuck with his little brother and show him who's boss. As for Spopovich taking injuries during that whole fight, you could say he wanted to tank all her attacks with his Majin defenses keeping him protected and not his Ki to show just how much of a monster he was and let her think she has some sorta chance at defeating him. As for why I didn't bring up Chiaotzu's DB PL, it's because there are none officially. The closest comparison we have during DB, would be Tien Shinhan, who had a PL of 180 during the tournament he went on to defeat Goku in. There isn't even an official PL for Krillin until Saiyan Saga during the training portion of it. Krillin's PL at that time was 206, but that's just after Raditz was defeated. If we make an assumption based off Tien & Goku's equal PL of 180 at the time, Master Shen's PL of 120, & Master Roshi's PL of 139, then maybe Krillin and Chiaotzu had a PL of 120 maybe. I could see that being the case since Nam during the previous tournament had a PL of 100. I would like to think Krillin surpassed Nam by the time of the 2nd tournament and Chiaotzu and Krillin seemed to be pretty evenly matched so I'd say they both had around 120. Assuming 120 was Chiaotzu's rough PL at the time of his introduction and the fact that he has never been shown to fly for hours straight at that time, I'd say it's fair that Videl's PL could be around King Piccolo's 260, which would only be around 2x as powerful as Chiaotzu's PL at the time of Chiaotzu's introduction in DB based off an educated guess.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 2, 2017 4:04:18 GMT
Does anyone know who it is who is telling Frieza that they will avenge the namekian race? It cannot be King Piccolo since he is both majinized and does not care about the namekian heritage that much. U10 Nail is gone along with Cargot, Lumaca, and Caracoru. And big brother Gast is stranded on the imprisonment planet, thus lowering the potential candidates. So my guesses will be: 1. U18 Piccolo (second most likely one). 2. U16 Piccolo, though it will make no sense since he would have to leave Videl defenseless as his prodigy fights against Perfect Cell alone. 3. Namekian organizer or spectator (most likely). 4. Mary Sue for the lolz. 5. THE Nail, you know the badass one in U8 who was presumed deceased in his original body. Now of course scenario #5 is one-hundred percent impossible for a number of reasons, but if it is him, then I must say this will be such a unique development, almost to the levels that Cold was Captain Ginyu. Everyone here knows that I am a big fan of this version of Nail, and seeing him back in some shape or form will bring a smile to my face. Granted this is all wishful thinking, but I cannot help it since this unknown person said that he has an old account to settle for the namekian race. How many people you can think of that will say such a thing in this context and situation? Not many for me, which for some reason boils down to Nail, which seems both impossible and unforeseen. However if it is Nail, how did he survived, escaped Planet Vuunveenly, got healed, stayed out of the radar for 30 years, and infiltrated the Multiverse Tournament unnoticed. Ahh I am probably digging too far in a rabbit hole that leads to nowhere, but it is fun to think of a solution to a seemingly impossible outcome such as this. However one crack theory can be plausible, something everyone in this forum at one point laughed at that may hold some weight now. If Nail somehow attained the power of body change, then it is likely he used it to survive while grinding for the right moment to strike. If so, THIS will be absolutely beautiful foreshadowing that no one took seriously beforehand. Straight up I will applaud Salagir, and take back mostly everything I said about him and his writing. And if this is the case, imagine Majin Ginyu's reaction that one of his prior victims copied his most prized attack, and did the same thing he did for many years which was lurking in Frieza's armed forces. The parallels between these two will be undeniable, especially if Nail switches with Frieza to attain his body and powers. Now if we go with this, what body is Nail occupying in? Was it Jeice, Recoome, or some pitiful low-level soldier? God I cannot wait to Sunday to get a revelation on this, and despite the odds, I hope it really is Nail. Had the same question eariler, it seemed strange we'd take up an entire panel like that for "a voice" to call Frieza out, but at the same time, who else wants to settle a score with U8 Frieza? From your list Xeno Black , I don't think the organizers are likely to be the one(s) since they never really encountered Frieza in their world. Supreme Kais already killed the Frost family before they could draft the Saiyans and thus relative peace was achieved. Can't be U16 Piccolo as you've stated. It's either U18 Piccolo, U7 Gast who somehow managed to teleport back off screen with the rest of the participants (very unlikely) or The NAIL!... however: I don't think it is Nail, even if he did survive, Ginyu only had thoughts of betraying Frieza after he got himself shot, any interaction with Nail up until that point was merely "eliminate intruder" but that's about it. Doubt he'd be making a deal with the enemy under Frieza's nose. Of course, Nail's body wasn't killed off, so that is indeed a question that needs to be addressed. Edit: Topic above me
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 4:13:39 GMT
Xeno Black what if instead of U8 Nail, it's not from U8, but one from the spectator section that is from a Universe that is a branch off of U8? Probably not though, it would be better if it was THE Nail of the U8 from the tournament and now that you've brought up this possibility I really hope it is the truth. The Retro Kakarotto, yeah I know PLs are bullshit and that is why I think it is very much possible and even likely that Videl is around King Piccolo's PL, Satan is around Roshi's PL or at least Ranfan's PL, and Spopovich is around Raditz's PL. (All from the original timeline, of course.)
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 2, 2017 4:26:50 GMT
The Retro Kakarotto , yeah I know PLs are bullshit and that is why I think it is very much possible and even likely that Videl is around King Piccolo's PL, Satan is around Roshi's PL or at least Ranfan's PL, and Spopovich is around Raditz's PL. (All from the original timeline, of course.) ... Accepting that the system is Bullshit is one thing, utilizing it to justify character's strengths is another. lordofbeefdip and Axalon already covered the feats perspective and it made more sense than assigning (arbitrary) numbers to a character. The best argument is utilizing how Mr. Satan couldn't handle a bullet to... okay I forgot what body part, but it was fatal he cried Buu to help him, and Kid Goku took them to the head... the head. How can he scratch it off as something like a mosquito bite, mere annoyance, and still be alright but a human who is supposed to be stronger cried for help when he got wounded? And also, for the others in the actual discussion, wasn't the first Ki technique Roshi's Max Kamehameha, basically implying no one else knew how to manipulate Ki except for Grandpa Gohan's deceased master?
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Post by VoidSlayer on Nov 2, 2017 4:44:08 GMT
YES, I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MORE GOHAN FIGHTING CELL IN GLORIOUS COMBA-- *sees Piccolo and Frieza about to square off instead* ...Realistically I don't expect much from that particular fight either--UNLESS Salagir's intention here is to show that Majinization bumps you up more than just a single tier--because otherwise Piccolo should still clean Frieza's clock, Majin spell or no Majin spell, given that Frieza isn't even able to defeat a raw SS1 and Piccolo has long since transcended that level of power. So in essence my reaction can be summed up as: Well I think it's very well possible that the Majin spell can bump people up 2+ tiers seeing as Spopovich seemed to be around Saiyan Saga Raditz level. The reason I'd say he was around Saiyan Saga Raditz level is because Videl is probably around King Piccolo's level of power during DB just with less knowledge of Ki manipulation and Ki control. I think it works much like Zenkais- The weaker you are the more effect it has on you. I mean Spopovich went from below Hercule of all people- Basically a bodybuilder schmuck who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag to a fighter who could use some technique, flying, damage resistance and ki blasts. Where as for Vegeta it depends if you believe he already had SS2 or not but all it did was make him 'equal' to Goku. Even counting supreme Kais paralysis technique Spopovich and the other majin fella were able to restrain Gohan in SS2 to drain his energy. Thats a big upgrade from random no-ki using human.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 4:54:02 GMT
The Retro Kakarotto , yeah I know PLs are bullshit and that is why I think it is very much possible and even likely that Videl is around King Piccolo's PL, Satan is around Roshi's PL or at least Ranfan's PL, and Spopovich is around Raditz's PL. (All from the original timeline, of course.) ... Accepting that the system is Bullshit is one thing, utilizing it to justify character's strengths is another. lordofbeefdip and Axalon already covered the feats perspective and it made more sense than assigning (arbitrary) numbers to a character. Yes I know for the most part that PLs are bullshit, but when it comes to comparison discussion it doesn't hurt to use such things. Also for the sake of such discussions, I really do wish we had more detailed lists of Official PLs of various characters and different points in the series. It would be very useful for such comparison discussions. Now I'm not saying that PLs would be what alone determines if one character could defeat another because PL alone doesn't truly matter, but it would be a very useful reference guide to aid in such discussion in the Dragon Ball community. Hell I would also even love it if we got PLs of characters from other animes too just for the sake of cross series comparisons. Maybe not even just PLs, but maybe general statistics would be nice for those of us nerds who like to compare characters in various series with other characters from the same or even different series. I'm just Saiyan. I know I love myself a good comparison discussion as long as all parties involved are willing to be unbiased as possible about the discussion and listen to each other. That is why I really do love to watch Death Battle fights if they have at least one character I'm at least somewhat familiar with. Speaking of Death Battle fights, I can't wait for next week's Ichigo vs Naruto Death Battle. To be honest, I'm not even sure who'd win or if they can even fairly portray Ichigo since we never really got to see his true capabilities in the end or what his new Bankai could do. I'm assuming that he'll probably just be given the best amalgamation they can give him, so he'll be able to do things like using his Quincy powers (all like 1 or 2 of them, lol), his Shinigami powers, and his Fullbringer powers. Thinking about how they'll amalgamate him really does make me feel sad about how we never got to see him at full strength at the end of Bleach since Tite Kubo was forced to rush the ending because of lack of funding. I think if they ever do have Bleach come back that the first thing that needs to happen is for them to allow Tite Kubo to retcon the ending and give it a true proper ending to the Thousand Year Blood Arc (I think that was what the final arc was called, right?). I think if Tite Kubo had been allowed to do a proper ending that we'd have seen Ichigo using all 3 of his supernatural powers (Shinigami, Fullbringer, & Quincy) and his new Bankai as well as probably even Aizen's Bankai, which is such shame that we'll probably never even know what said 2 Bankais can do. Enough about that, I know I got off topic of the Death Battle topic of this 3rd paragraph, which in and of itself was really an off-topic paragraph.
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Post by Son Pan on Nov 2, 2017 5:47:36 GMT
Hercule/Satan, Videl, and the other post 23rd tournament world class fighters always felt like they were designed to be the strongest normal fighters on Earth and have no ki abilities whatsoever. By nature I don't think they are anywhere near Roshi or the other classic fighters from old school DB era. Personally I felt with what we saw of Goku and Krillin's adolescent years and the well known fighters and martial artists of that era that Hercule and the others should still be somewhere on that level for consistency sake. It's not like someone like Nam was trained to the extent as Goku and his friends and he could still do super human feats. It felt like every fighters worth their soul was at least in the same game as Goku and the others. Suddenly they just all fell off the board and are now only as capable as people in the real world, despite DB being a fantasy world. That probably also goes along with how we started seeing dinosaurs and animal people less and less as the Z era went on.
Toriyama switched gears and made Satan to be the pro wrestler persona, but to do it he ignored what he had already established. Goes with how people forgot martial artists could do super human feats and amazing techniques and bought into it was all bullshit in just a decade. Hercule probably isn't meant to be as strong as Roshi (he may not even be as strong as Chi-chi or Ox King), but he should be more amazing than he was IMO. The serious martial artist seem to naturally use ki to enhance their physical abilities, explaining why someone like Nam could jump so far in the sky and come down unharmed. Satan and Videl seemed unable to do it without help, yet somehow we top martial artists. It doesn't make sense if you think to hard about it.
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Post by Axalon on Nov 2, 2017 5:52:59 GMT
Axalon to be honest I like to think that Hercule Satan is around Roshi's power level. He's capable of doing things that most normal fighters can't even do and Gohan specifically stated that Videl has surpassed her father by quite a bit. I'd say that Hercule is at the very weakest around Ranfan's PL of 80. I'd like to say that Videl is about 3x stronger than her father, so if you take 80 x 3, you get around 240. King Piccolo had a PL of 260. But how have you come to such conclusions? Satan IS stronger than most fighters of his day, evidenced by the fact he won the single tournament none of the Z Fighters went to, but aside from people like a not-Majin Spopovich, we have no idea of the caliber of people he fought aside from the fact he was stronger than them. He certainly hasn't shown he's stronger than past participants of previous Budokais like Giran or King Chappa, so it's likely that those he fought were more along Spopovich's previous abilities before getting Majinned. Raditz could've also just lowered his defenses a bit if he really wanted to troll Goku and Piccolo. He was about 4x stronger than them and could easily have afforded to do so. I'm not saying Spopovich couldn't have done this, but at the same time if there were really such a huge gap between them as there is between Raditz and King Piccolo he could just have easily have no-sold every single one of Videl's attacks for likely the exact same psychological effect. I haven't brought up PLs at all precisely because they didn't exist. This is where feats come in handy for judging characters. Using PLs is perfectly fine--if discussing the era when they were used. We know 1st Form Frieza had 530,000, so trying to argue that Saiyan Saga Vegeta has a chance in hell with his 18,000 is silly unless he has some Super Special Awesome technique that somehow negates the horrible disadvantage. But the reverse is also true. We can't assign random numbers to people and just guess that this is where they could be when feats show them being far weaker than those they're being compared to. Having PLs for everything would make things much more straightforward, yes, but also essentially kills any and all discussion that isn't about characters who are closely matched because then it just becomes a numbers game. This is why I'm having a hard time believing Videl or Satan are anywhere near Roshi or King Piccolo. Lesser fighters like Tambourine and Desert Bandit Yamcha are more impressive than anything Videl's done, which is why I find it extremely odd that she would be on par with King Piccolo of all people.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 6:22:00 GMT
Axalon the only feat I can recall is the one where Satan punched a hole through a bus on TV when he was first introduced. Also where he pulls 3 entire buses with brute strength alone. Both of those feats don't harm him in the slightest and when he punched through the bus it clearly shredded outward (somehow; shouldn't it have shredded inwards) and didn't damage him in the slightest. This I would say at least puts him around Ranfan's level of power at the bare minimum as she was capable of using friction to superheat her fist (no Ki manipulation used whatsoever), which I'd imagine is a comparable feat to punching a whole thru a steel bus and not being injured by it. So if he's around her PL of 80 and Gohan clearly remarks that Videl has far surpassed her father and how she manages to successfully play super hero and not get killed by people with machine guns, I'd say it wouldn't be too far a stretch to say that she's about 3x stronger than her father, which would put her around King Piccolo's PL.
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Post by Xeno Black on Nov 2, 2017 7:18:10 GMT
Kor Saiyajinkami there is absolutely no way that Videl is anywhere near King Piccolo's level. Not even close. Hercule and Videl at best are comparable to the fighters in the 21st and 22nd Budokais with various intervals between their strengths. King Chappa basically was the Hercule of his generation, and we saw what happened to him when he fought against Tambourine. King Piccolo in his old age was superior to Tambourine, and became even stronger when he received eternal youth. I recall in a interview somewhere that King Piccolo in his prime had a power comparable to a nuclear bomb, which was proven when his demonic explosion wave decimated King Furries city in a single blast. Neither Videl or Hercule ever displayed this much power. Even if they had better ki control they would failed to replicate that scale of power. As for Majin Spopovich, I wouldn't go as far to say he is stronger than King Piccolo, but it is plausible he is stronger than Grandpa Gohan, DB-era Master Roshi, Master Shen, or even Master Mutaito. But then again those are seasoned warriors, and can probably take down Spopovich in the right conditions. But all of these warriors are weaker than King Piccolo, which in my eyes, makes Spopovich automatically weaker than Piccolo. And by using this logic, Videl is definitely weaker than King Piccolo in every way, shape, and form. Now lets pretend that this logic about Videl being a match for King Piccolo is true. Now do you think that Videl can fight against Kid Goku, the rival and equal of King Piccolo? Goku by this point did things that Videl has never accomplished in power, before and after fighting against King Piccolo. And if Goku in the 22nd budokai could defeat King Chappa easily, a human of similar power to Hercule, then Videl is just doomed to lose no matter what since she isn't that far off from her dad. Flying and uncontrollable ki blasts makes her a paltry ki fighter at best, and a burden at worst in combat.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 7:40:12 GMT
Xeno Black I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I said her PL is comparable to King Piccolo's, not her ability to use her Ki to the fullest potential. Basically she has the PL of King Piccolo and Goku of that time, but her Ki control is so lacking that if you had her fight King Piccolo that she'd stand just as much of a chance against him as first episode Goku would. Yes, I'm comparing her Ki manipulation to what Goku was capable at the very beginning of the series. Sure she couldn't tank machine gun fire like he could at that time, but I think her ability to fly makes up for that. Goku couldn't fly at the beginning of the series and to be honest even if he knew how, I don't think he'd be able to fly with ease or for more than 5 or 10 minutes since a PL of 10 is basically the type of power that characters have when nearly out of Ki and when nearly out of Ki most Ki users capable of flight have extreme difficulty with flying and can only do it for limited time periods.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 2, 2017 7:48:18 GMT
Xeno Black I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I said her PL is comparable to King Piccolo's, not her ability to use her Ki to the fullest potential. Basically she has the PL of King Piccolo and Goku of that time, but her Ki control is so lacking that if you had her fight King Piccolo that she'd stand just as much of a chance against him as first episode Goku would. Yes, I'm comparing her Ki manipulation to what Goku was capable at the very beginning of the series. Sure she couldn't tank machine gun fire like he could at that time, but I think her ability to fly makes up for that. Goku couldn't fly at the beginning of the series and to be honest even if he knew how, I don't think he'd be able to fly with ease or for more than 5 or 10 minutes since a PL of 10 is basically the type of power that characters have when nearly out of Ki and when nearly out of Ki most Ki users capable of flight have extreme difficulty with flying and can only do it for limited time periods. The reverse can be said, with Goten's inability to fly, yet he's absurdly strong in terms of Power Levels. Power levels should not have any correlation to the ability to fly. Ki manipulation is a factor, but it isn't the sole one for PLs, and vice versa.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 8:01:45 GMT
Xeno Black I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I said her PL is comparable to King Piccolo's, not her ability to use her Ki to the fullest potential. Basically she has the PL of King Piccolo and Goku of that time, but her Ki control is so lacking that if you had her fight King Piccolo that she'd stand just as much of a chance against him as first episode Goku would. Yes, I'm comparing her Ki manipulation to what Goku was capable at the very beginning of the series. Sure she couldn't tank machine gun fire like he could at that time, but I think her ability to fly makes up for that. Goku couldn't fly at the beginning of the series and to be honest even if he knew how, I don't think he'd be able to fly with ease or for more than 5 or 10 minutes since a PL of 10 is basically the type of power that characters have when nearly out of Ki and when nearly out of Ki most Ki users capable of flight have extreme difficulty with flying and can only do it for limited time periods. The reverse can be said, with Goten's inability to fly, yet he's absurdly strong in terms of Power Levels. Power levels should not have any correlation to the ability to fly. Ki manipulation is a factor, but it isn't the sole one for PLs, and vice versa. Yes and her ability to fly and shoot weak Ki blasts aren't the only 2 factors I used to determine that she very likely has a PL around King Piccolo's. If those where the only 2 things, then I would've said she was around a PL of maybe 50-100, but those aren't the only things I used to come to my conclusion. Her fighting prowess as a normal human with very little knowledge of Ki manipulation, the fact that she far surpasses her father, and the comparing her father's feats to normal human fighters of the DB era like Ranfan who I determined at the very least Mr. Satan had a PL around what she did since Ranfan's feats and Hercule's are comparable.
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Post by Solus on Nov 2, 2017 8:05:26 GMT
Axalon the only feat I can recall is the one where Satan punched a hole through a bus on TV when he was first introduced. Also where he pulls 3 entire buses with brute strength alone. Both of those feats don't harm him in the slightest and when he punched through the bus it clearly shredded outward (somehow; shouldn't it have shredded inwards) and didn't damage him in the slightest. This I would say at least puts him around Ranfan's level of power at the bare minimum as she was capable of using friction to superheat her fist (no Ki manipulation used whatsoever), which I'd imagine is a comparable feat to punching a whole thru a steel bus and not being injured by it. So if he's around her PL of 80 and Gohan clearly remarks that Videl has far surpassed her father and how she manages to successfully play super hero and not get killed by people with machine guns, I'd say it wouldn't be too far a stretch to say that she's about 3x stronger than her father, which would put her around King Piccolo's PL. "far" is such a vage word. If you assume 80 as Satan's PL then even 100 was "far" above that. It's hilarious to think that one has to be 3 times as strong as someone else just to be far above them. And remember how Piccolo nuked a city? I want to see Videl doing that ... On another note: Wouldn't it be actually wise in this special case, if Piccolo did toy with Freezer and his henchmen? If he would display his superior strength, they might try to escape and maybe popp up when you would't like them to do. But if they don't realize that you are a real danger, they probably sit back and enjoy the show until it is their turn. Maybe we even can see Cold's first augmentation in action. I guess, with the majin boost, it would be equal to Piccolo.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 2, 2017 8:20:33 GMT
Axalon the only feat I can recall is the one where Satan punched a hole through a bus on TV when he was first introduced. Also where he pulls 3 entire buses with brute strength alone. Both of those feats don't harm him in the slightest and when he punched through the bus it clearly shredded outward (somehow; shouldn't it have shredded inwards) and didn't damage him in the slightest. This I would say at least puts him around Ranfan's level of power at the bare minimum as she was capable of using friction to superheat her fist (no Ki manipulation used whatsoever), which I'd imagine is a comparable feat to punching a whole thru a steel bus and not being injured by it. So if he's around her PL of 80 and Gohan clearly remarks that Videl has far surpassed her father and how she manages to successfully play super hero and not get killed by people with machine guns, I'd say it wouldn't be too far a stretch to say that she's about 3x stronger than her father, which would put her around King Piccolo's PL. "far" is such a vague word. If you assume 80 as Satan's PL then even 100 was "far" above that. It's hilarious to think that one has to be 3 times as strong as someone else just to be far above them. And remember how Piccolo nuked a city? I want to see Videl doing that ... Well I think 3x is fair because I'm pretty sure that if she actually put her all into defeating him, he'd get humiliated in a fight with her even if he was going all out and wasn't holding back. Even without using her Ki manipulation, she'd still wreck him utterly in a physical fight. So if she'd wreck utterly in a physical fight, I think it'd be fair to say that's 3x stronger. If you tried to have her daddy fill in her crime fighting shoes, he'd try to scare the criminals with words and if that didn't work he'd piss his fucking pants if they tried to kill him with their machine guns.
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Post by The Masterman on Nov 2, 2017 15:24:09 GMT
Man can't wait to see Piccolo vs Frieza unless Ghast and co managed to get back that quickly, then I'll accept Frieza getting curb stomped. :T
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Post by Rafael on Nov 2, 2017 15:45:58 GMT
Not sure if the last panel is some Namekian other than Piccolo, or I'm just over-thinking and it's just Piccolo's dramatic entrance. It's Piccolo, he said he would deal with them to Gohan.
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Post by Solus on Nov 2, 2017 16:21:05 GMT
"far" is such a vague word. If you assume 80 as Satan's PL then even 100 was "far" above that. It's hilarious to think that one has to be 3 times as strong as someone else just to be far above them. And remember how Piccolo nuked a city? I want to see Videl doing that ... Well I think 3x is fair because I'm pretty sure that if she actually put her all into defeating him, he'd get humiliated in a fight with her even if he was going all out and wasn't holding back. Even without using her Ki manipulation, she'd still wreck him utterly in a physical fight. So if she'd wreck utterly in a physical fight, I think it'd be fair to say that's 3x stronger. If you tried to have her daddy fill in her crime fighting shoes, he'd try to scare the criminals with words and if that didn't work he'd piss his fucking pants if they tried to kill him with their machine guns. That is nonsense, since she is a human. There are no Saiyan genes that would justify a strength above average human capabilities. Without ki manipulation there is no way to become stronger than Mr. Satan. He isn't MA World Champion for nothing. He is a show-off but nevertheless the strongest human without ki manipulation. Videl might be more skilled than him (which I doubt) and thus be able to beat him in an all-out battle in the ring. But before Gohan showed her how to use ki she was nothing but a normal girl. No Martial Art could make her stronger than her father who has at least twenty years more of experience and many times more strength (as evident by his show during the Cell Games). And about your 3x factor: Remember how Piccolo curbstomped second form Freezer? Even Vegeta acknowledged that Piccolo was stronger than Freezer. If he had to be 3 times stronger to be able to do that, how comes he wasn't able to beat first form Freezer who was only 2 times as strong as before? You see the difference in the multiplicators? This is only one example of occasions where we have real numbers. There are of course many more. But it should show that it isn't neccessary to be 3x stronger than someone just to dominate him in a fight. I also don't understand why you want to lift Videl to such levels. There is no reason to do so. It's not even like she did something afterwards or like any plot would require her to be stronger than she actually is. You seem to be the only one to see more in her.
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