??????
|
Post by Axalon on Nov 24, 2018 22:56:44 GMT
Ok, but what on Earth, literally speaking, is there to help him become strong enough to face even the shit tier Buu? Cell is inferior in almost every sense to that fat fuck so he wouldn't stand a chance, though his regen would be a great help and may be skewing my opinion here Maybe he pulls a DBS Trunks and just kills Dabura and Babadi before they can awaken Buu and does it so quickly Babadi doesn't even have a chance to Majinize him. Perfection. I mean, it makes sense given what he says here: Had he ACTUALLY dealt with Buu he wouldn't compliment Dabura in such a way, despite only holding himself back to his Cell Games level. Also, we know he's lying given that he killed SS2 Gohan who was stronger than Dabura anyway (unless DBM interpreted it differently, I've lost track of such things), but the main point here is that if he'd actually dealt with the monster power level of Buu then Dabura wouldn't have been worth complimenting.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 23:18:08 GMT
But was Fat Buu really stronger than Majin Vegeta? His regen was extremely helpful. I always put them at roughly the same, strength wise, well until Buu goes all Gohan that is, either way I am happy to see him as SSJ2 .5 or SSJ3 lite if you will, coz it does make sense. That's what I was saying though. Majin Vegeta couldn't defeat him without a suicide attack using all his power but Fat Buu was weaker than SSJ3 Goku so Fat Buu would have to be between them. At best, he could only be a SSJ2.5 tier but less than SSJ3. Even if he never encountered Buu, I don't think the gap between them is that big that Cell couldn't reach SSJ3 tier by DBM since it takes place 27 years after the Cell Games. In the tournament, he knew Vegetto was too powerful for him so he's more willing to admit when he's outclassed. He was relatively young in the Cell saga and only following his programming which is what lead him to assuming he would be perfect after absorbing the two cyborgs. After his attempted suicide against Gohan and getting a Zenkai, he might've realized that he wasn't as perfect as he thought and that there was room for his power to grow. I could see Cell losing to Fat Buu initially and realizing he wouldn't stand a chance at his current power without more training. Either way, the Earth wouldn't last for very long. Either Buu destroys it a few days after being released and moves on to terrorize a different planet or Cell destroys the Earth a few years earlier. If Cell did destroy the Earth before Babidi arrived, I'm pretty sure Buu's cocoon would be wiped out as well or it would just be drifting off in space making it difficult for Babidi to find. I meant this as a hypothetical scenario that could explain how he might've encountered Buu and then met the Heloites later on during his training. Cell couldn't even kill himself with a suicide attack and Buu's regen is much moar op than that..... See what I am gettin at here? Buu's malleability and retardedly high ki reserves make it appear him to be much stronger than someone who is of similar/equal strength. It's not until he is quite literally overpowered that we can see his actual strength for what it is.
27 years? Cheers for clearing that up. I don't doubt Cell can get as strong as he is, I was just picking on what I found to be inconsistencies in the examples provided and tbh, I still can't quite put my finger on what/why some of these doen't sound right to me. Oh well. Maybe my senility can turn me into the next AT?
After admitting to being GROSSLY outclassed his very next sentence was "I can't give up coz I'm Cell". Sure that can be open to interpretation but going by the examples provided it goes against the "run away to train" angle, then you can counter with "but he is goin the zenkai route" and now we are back to square one.
Until we get a special, everything we say is hypothetical. It's just that some are better than it than others which is why you have a successful parody and I am banned from numerous websites.
edit: I think Axalon is closest to being correct atm. I just can't see Cell taking on Fat Buu, winning, then still needing a zenkai AND majinisation in order to stand up to Gohan. To me this just isn't adding up.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 0:10:59 GMT
After admitting to being GROSSLY outclassed his very next sentence was "I can't give up coz I'm Cell". Sure that can be open to interpretation but going by the examples provided it goes against the "run away to train" angle, then you can counter with "but he is goin the zenkai route" and now we are back to square one. In the tournament, he was hoping to get a few Zenkais before the finals. Against Fat Buu in a fight to the death, he wouldn't really have a choice and it's either her a few Zenkais during their battle or leave before he gets killed. If it's true that he never fought someone stronger than Dabura, he may destroyed and left the Earth early on after the Cell Games. That's what I said a few comments ago. At the most, I could only see Cell being at the lower end of SSJ3 before the tournament since he needed a Zenkai and Majin boost to challenge Ultimate Gohan. That's why I pointed out that Fat Buu was weaker than initial SSJ3 Goku because Cell could still defeat Buu if he encountered him without needing to be at Goku's level.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on Nov 25, 2018 0:19:50 GMT
The thing with Buu is that, as @invaderjim says, you can't take Buu being blasted to smithereens as a sign of weakness. Buu just LETS these things happen. Hell, Super Buu got pieces of him blasted off with a gun just because he didn't care. When Majin Vegeta first started fighting Buu, Buu didn't even fight back at first. He just LET Vegeta hit him and regenerated from it all. It isn't until Vegeta blasts a hole clean through his stomach that Buu admits that he was hurt...a little bit. Then he just regenerates again.
Following that, one AOE ki attack from Buu is enough to send Majin Vegeta flying, and from there Buu casually toys with Vegeta, eventually this is enough to convince Vegeta he needs to suicide bomb himself to have any hope of victory. Majin Buu was in a completely different class to Majin Vegeta, and Vegeta immediately realized this the instant Buu stopped doing nothing and actually hit back at him.
But at the risk of derailing yet another thread into "HOW STRONG IS THIS VERSION OF BUU COMPARED TO THE OTHER ONES YOU GUYZ, ISN'T THE BUU SAGA SO CLEAR???!" I'll go ahead and say that SS3 Goku's power relative to any of the Buus is weird. The situations where he fights Buu is weird. Goku's cockiness occasionally gets in his way where he either overestimates himself or underestimates Buu. Buu is just a weird opponent in general. Goku essentially has to be at absolute 100% power to pull it off, it has to be against only the weakest versions of Buu at all, and in both situations where he actually fights Buu as a SS3 there are mitigating circumstances that prevent him from doing so.
The first instance is when he stalls for time so Trunks can grab the Dragon Radar. The two big factors working against Goku is that SS3 is rapidly draining his time on Earth, and he's unfamiliar with Buu's regeneration. He essentially has to learn what Vegeta had already learned in that just punching him really, really hard is NOT going to work on Buu. Ever. His time is dwindling down FAST here. One thing working in Goku's favor in this fight is that despite the time limit, SS3 is in and of itself much easier to maintain due to him being dead. I'd say that due to Majin Buu not utilizing all of his strength as Super Buu would (essentially the DBZ equivalent of Goku letting down his guard in DBS), that by the time Goku figures out what's required he'll have either run out of time, or in the absolute best case scenario hit Buu with a really big ki blast that ideally would kill him, though such a blast would also basically send Goku back to the afterlife pretty much immediately and suck up all his remaining time.
IMO, Goku suspected this, and gambled on Gotenks taking him down because he didn't want to risk such a blast not killing Buu and then leaving the Earth with nothing to defend itself with, as the strongest person to defend the planet by then would be poor Piccolo since Vegeta was dead and Gohan was (presumed) dead. This also has the net benefit of ensuring the next generation doesn't need to rely on him for a future villain until Beerus wakes up and they need a Super Saiyan God.
The second instance is when he fights Kid Buu. Goku again requires absolute 100% strength, but unlike the first fight with Majin Buu, Kid Buu isn't giving Goku any time to power up. Majin Buu was willing to wait, Kid Buu wasn't, and Kid Buu is tough enough that Goku can't gain enough ki just by trading punches like Goku thought he could. So Vegeta offers to fight in Goku's stead so Goku can charge up...but then Goku realizes that even with Vegeta body blocking for him he CAN'T...because now he's not dead anymore and SS3 is more draining on a mortal body even though he's literally just standing there and powering up doing nothing else.
The ideal way for Goku to fight Buu would be if he were dead, fighting in the afterlife, and to also have Vegeta stall him for a little bit to ensure that he's actually charged up enough to finish the job. This goes right out the window once Buu makes the leap to Super Buu, who uses all of Majin Buu's untapped power and is thus too much even for a 100% SS3 Goku.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 0:22:02 GMT
After admitting to being GROSSLY outclassed his very next sentence was "I can't give up coz I'm Cell". Sure that can be open to interpretation but going by the examples provided it goes against the "run away to train" angle, then you can counter with "but he is goin the zenkai route" and now we are back to square one. In the tournament, he was hoping to get a few Zenkais before the finals. Against Fat Buu in a fight to the death, he wouldn't really have a choice and it's either her a few Zenkais during their battle or leave before he gets killed. If it's true that he never fought someone stronger than Dabura, he may destroyed and left the Earth early on after the Cell Games. That's what I said a few comments ago. At the most, I could only see Cell being at the lower end of SSJ3 before the tournament since he needed a Zenkai and Majin boost to challenge Ultimate Gohan. That's why I pointed out that Fat Buu was weaker than initial SSJ3 Goku because Cell could still defeat Buu if he encountered him without needing to be at Goku's level. Sorry mate, I have been in fine form lately and must have missed that.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 1:59:59 GMT
AxalonI agree with what you're saying but it sounds like you're coming to the same conclusion reached in this thread about Fat Buu having more raw power than Majin Vegeta but less than SSJ3 Goku. Cell wouldn't struggle to use 100% of his power since he doesn't need to transform so I think he could kill Fat Buu if he was close enough to SSJ3 Goku's level. I'm assuming something like that happened in U7. Gast might only be between SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan in raw power in the tournament so he likely would've been weaker when he faced Fat Buu in his universe.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on Nov 25, 2018 2:13:57 GMT
Axalon I agree with what you're saying but it sounds like you're coming to the same conclusion reached in this thread about Fat Buu having more raw power than Majin Vegeta but less than SSJ3 Goku. Cell wouldn't struggle to use 100% of his power since he doesn't need to transform so I think he could kill Fat Buu if he was close enough to SSJ3 Goku's level. Eh. Kinda. Majin Buu can't access all his power unless extremely pissed off, but by the same token neither can SS3 Goku. Either he has a time limit, or his now-mortal body can't handle the strain of SS3 as easily as his dead body could. In an extended no-holds barred brawl Buu (either Kid or Majin) I think would wear down SS3 Goku and win. If Majin Buu actually used 100% of his strength then Goku at 100% couldn't defeat him, because at that point he's basically fighting a fat Super Buu, who in canon he's acknowledged as suicide to fight against. Cell could potentially have indeed killed Buu in his timeline due to having less restrictions than SS3 Goku, but the question would of course arise as to how pissed off Majin Buu was if the two ever fought. As with the above example, if Majin Buu is at 100% then we're hitting Super Buu levels, which means you need a Gotenks or more preferably a Mystic Gohan to stand a chance. Despite this though, complimenting Dabura on his strength (despite being weaker than the SS2 Gohan he killed) and claiming that Dabura was the strongest fighter he's ever faced wouldn't jive with ever confronting Buu, who is much stronger. Possibly. Though there's no way to know with Gast. He might've been stronger the whole time for all we know and then came up with his Buu Vaccum spell to just to avoid collateral damage or something.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 3:09:34 GMT
AxalonHmm I always assumed Super Buu was stronger than the angry Fat Buu. They're made up of the same components but I thought they were rearranged so Super Buu had more access to the power suppressed after Grand Kaioshin's absorption. Goku didn't think he stood a chance against Super Buu but later mentioned he should've been able to kill Fat Buu. I don't think he would say that knowing both versions of Buu are the same strength at full power unless he implied that he wanted to kill Fat Buu before he got angry.
|
|
??????
|
Post by thequebecois on Dec 29, 2018 17:18:16 GMT
U9 is the most interesting choice because of how early it diverge from U18, the human could feasibly beat the stronger bad guys if technique such as the kianzan or kikhoho are allowed to work, they would also always be the underdogs, I could see them defeating Dabura by trapping him in the RoSaT. If all of them drank the special water, train under Kami, in the RoSaT, on Kaio planet, with the kaoishin and got their potential unlocked by Guru their power increase may not be that absurd.
U3 is an obvious one, If the Raditz scan are real, then I might see Piccolo daimo fusing with Kami to stop him, they're also Raichi eliminating the sayain. Babidi is still a problem, Because none of his minion are in Raichi ghost army, (Debura, Pui Pui, etc) After that we should be done with this one, as it has by far the most special.
U13 is still just at the sayan saga stage, we need one or two chapters in which Vegeta goes super saying to beat Freaza and one in which they kill Babidi and Debura
U7 still has much to tell, Vegeta, Cell, Buu and we all need more Ghast
U11 wouldn't have had the two android specials if not set up the Buu saga, also since Babidi is a major player now he might get his own soon enough
U18 seing a redoing of movie 13 would be cool as the event of the film don't fit all that well in DBM
U8 I could see Cold/Ginyu going to earth and killing the androids. Babidi and Debura are always a problem
|
|
??????
|
Post by iron leaf on Jan 11, 2019 2:06:15 GMT
Ok, who was the one voting for U4? You won
|
|
??????
|
Post by lolo on May 2, 2019 14:53:28 GMT
U-9 spécial chapter !
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on May 2, 2019 15:01:32 GMT
Already happening as we speak. As for me, I kinda want an U7 special again.
|
|
??????
|
Post by squirz96 on May 2, 2019 15:53:23 GMT
U9 - Already happening now. U2 - Would be somewhat interesting even if all participants from that universe are no longer participating. U3 - Not much left to tell. Raichi vs Sayian Empire. U4 - Loved that special about Buu, I wonder how everyone on earth is doing. U5 - Seriously doubt we would see this year. My bet that this special would come before U4 Buu's fight against XXI. This is perhaps 5+ chapters ahead if not more. Considering that one chapter spans for about 2+ months and that they would be most likely another specials, my guess is that U5 special should arrive around September 2020. U7 - Gast vs Cell and Majin Buu.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 21:19:40 GMT
I saw these comments from Salagir on the main site:
As I said, this is the chaotic chapter. The part you're reading now is a reduced script I wrote years ago. The pages about Freeza and the ones about Gohan are independent stories. All 3 stories have been tried and gave up by at least one cartoonist each. I put them together, to have a special chapter, at last. Also I have nothing else to publish (I'm quite scared for the next btw) That's why you see Gohan-Yamsha fight twice.
@bangbang Next U9 special will be a full normal story. It's half drafted. We hope to do a ton like this.
@dr raichi All chapter drafted. 16 pages inked. ~10 pages colored (all will be).
Many special chapters are ongoing, and have been for YEARS. We're not giving up o/
He mentioned that Ouv's Namek saga chapters is still being worked on. If it's going to be a double special, 16 pages inked is about 1/3 the way. It doesn't sound like it'll be done by the end of the next main story chapter so I wonder what universe the next special will be about?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Jun 2, 2019 21:55:41 GMT
There are still countless possibilities for specials that aren't too dynamically or anatomically demanding (fights, etc..)
-More of U4 shenanigans, though it seems unlikely given we were given other recently and there's the Buu novel going on -More Bojack histories (I would welcome this as long as they have memeable funny shit) -A mirai episode of Future Goku vs. Future Cold. This happened in a couple universes. -U17 Cell special, though it'd be hard to make this entertaining given there are no more opponents -More Gast specials, though this is unlikely given how detailed they are -Another U16 special (this is very likely given we will be seeing Majin Bra, and lots of psycho issues will need some explaining). U16 Specials are not that demanding in regards to dynamism and drawing. -U18 Special training montage of Goku, Vegeta and Uub after Hildegarn -U18 Special about Hildegarn. We know this did not happen like in the movie, and in the novel we only got the U16 version. -Another Broly special (the third coming) -U19 special (not likely)
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 2:13:11 GMT
Conqueror GengYeah there are a lot of possibilities. I think the universes that currently have novels might not get any specials for the time being like U4, U14, U16, and U19 but Salagir might have some of these worked on to have some extra in case others aren't completed on time. The universes that don't currently have novels and still have a lot to cover are: U3 -Raichi's defeat of the Saiyans. -King Piccolo's rise to power and fusion with Kami. U5 -Who is XXI. -When this universe diverged. It makes sense they would hold off on this universe to avoid spoilers. U9 -How they defeated the RR Army, King Piccolo, the Saiyans, and Babidi. -How Yamcha became a cyborg. -What happened to those not present when they met the Vargas such as Grandpa Gohan, Roshi, Chiaotzu, and Kami. We learned that Cooler killed Freeza and took over his empire and that Grandpa Gohan replaced Goku in the first saga of Dragonball. It wasn't much but it's a start. U7 -How Gast defeated Cell and Buu. U11 -Buu saga We know that Vegeta was Majinized and Buu was released. With no SSJ3 and Goku learning the Fusion Dance in Other World, it's probably going to be short and they're all killed by Fat Buu. U13 -How Kakarotto managed to kill the strongest humans after defeating Master Roshi. -Namek saga -How Kakarotto became a SSJ. -How Vegeta became a SSJ2. -Their encounter with Broly. We don't know how what specials are currently being worked on besides Ouv's U13 chapters and the continuation of U9 that Salagir mentioned. I hope there's enough drawn that Salagir might decide to release multiple shorter specials together. For example, two 10-12 page specials instead of one full length chapter if none are complete. Otherwise, the main comic might have to slow down to two pages a week like it was when DBM first began before there were any specials. Edit: I forget which thread but I made a similar list of the remaining content that needed to be covered in future specials about a year or two ago. We've had specials for U8, U11, U3, U4, and one for U9 since then so the list has gotten shorter! We're making some progress!
|
|
??????
|
Post by iron leaf on Jun 3, 2019 15:22:15 GMT
Conqueror Geng & @skar I remember reading in a thread a lot of possible future special story ideas. And the only thread coming in mind is What special would you like to see next? In case there isn't another thread covering this topic, we should put all special story speculations in that particular thread in future, in case someone is not mentioning the events of today's page / current chapter in his comment. And I think I'm out of my mind. How could it be that I've only just noticed how Juan Nasser's 10th Anniversary contribution comes from this one special he drew for DBM.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Jun 3, 2019 18:08:27 GMT
iron leafI normally split off-topic discussions, but I am making a big exception this time since there's so little relevant things to discuss about this special and the activity is painfully low. All the offtopic about Saiyans/Bardock/Raichi and specials is welcome for the time being.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 2:09:41 GMT
Conqueror GengDo you think we should move the post with Salagir's comment and the ones that followed to the other special thread? Salagir's comment would be relevant when discussing future specials in that thread. It would get "lost" in this thread once the special is over and it's locked.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Bubbles on Jun 13, 2019 18:02:13 GMT
I would very much like to see a U20 Specials where Broly comes back during the fight againt Buu (Fat, Super or any one). A Broly vs. Buu fight would be freaking epic! I hope it's in Salagir's plans. (Of course it would end up with Broly being the victor, killing Buu, the Z-Fighters and pretty much everything in existence in the universe.
|
|