Post by christhesaiyan on Jul 22, 2019 10:15:10 GMT
Who do you think would win? They seem pretty evenly matched to me.
I think a good point of reference here is Gohan, since his DBM and DBS selves are roughly at the same power level (one stayed at his maximum constantly while the other trained back up to it), so that's what I'm gonna use in the following breakdown: Gohan (DBM) = Gohan (DBS) Goku (DBS) > Gohan Goku (DBS) = Kefla (she only had an advantage over him in their fight because Goku was badly fatigued) By extension of the above, and from what we know about Bra's power compared to Gohan's: Gohan < Kefla Bra (U16) > Gohan Both of these are seemingly close shaves in terms of power difference. The major difference I see here is experience level. Bra has the benefit of training from various highly experienced fighters, while Kefla has the direct fusion of two skillsets and combat experience, although personally I'd say Son Bra still has the advantage skill and experience wise. Both seem perfectly willing to fight dirty (Kefla taking advantage of an opponent's exhaustion from previous fights and Bra being underhanded by nature).
Overall, my assessment would be that Son bi-I mean Son Bra wins this one. She has superior experience and skills, and the fact that the power gap is narrow is mitigated by Kefla's status as a fusion shortening her time to give Son Bra the much needed beating she deserves. Oh well...
Still, I love how similar these characters are. Personality wise alone there are enough similarities to fill a book (arrogant, underhanded, condescending to others),but there's also origins (fusion, daughter of fusion, both from alternate versions of the main DBM universe). It's a real shame this fight will never actually happen. (although the incoming debates trying to contradict small extracts from this post certainly will)
Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 26, 2019 7:26:26 GMT
I agree with Jim here and say Bra totally has this in the bag, but I'm gonna have to say that it might be a rather close fight at least until Bra ignores daddy and goes SSJ2. Then at that point, Bra would definitely ROFL-stomp Kefla.
So Chris I'm kinda curious where you'd rank Gohan and Kefla from the manga on that rankings list of yours since Gohan beat Kefla in the manga.
Kefla and Bra are very similar, both have enormous power, are confident, arrogant, etc.
But for me, Kefla would win against Bra. Not only is she a fusion, but her two components are powerful saiyans, she also has the SSJ Berserk or Demon, as they call it in the manga, which makes her power increase.
Also the problem is that Bra does not know how to control herself in SSJ2, unlike Kefla, which does know how to control hierself.
Kefla and Bra are very similar, both have enormous power, are confident, arrogant, etc.
But for me, Kefla would win against Bra. Not only is she a fusion, but her two components are powerful saiyans, she also has the SSJ Berserk or Demon, as they call it in the manga, which makes her power increase.
Also the problem is that Bra does not know how to control herself in SSJ2, unlike Kefla, which does know how to control hierself.
I don't really think that matters. I actually think Bra losing control in SSJ2 would work to her benefit. Look at how loss of control benefitted Kale during the ToP, she was only defeated because Jiren stepped in. Also Bra doesn't lose complete control like that so having some control of her faculties while in a berserk-esque state would only help especially against a fighter like Kefla who has no real martial arts training and therefore only is good at fighting because she's Saiyan. Bra does have martial arts training experience and I think that would make all the difference especially since I think Bra would be stronger in her SSJ2 form than Kefla is in her LSSJ form (still calling it LSSJ; don't really like calling it Berserk SSJ or BSSJ).
I think people here are sleeping on Kefla. Her final attack had the potential to kill UIO Goku, who was above and beyond SSB at this point. Bra is strong, but she's not Ultra Instinct or Super Saiyan God strong. Kefla would wipe the floor with her, even if we were talking Majin Bra. She would then de-fuse most likely due to fusions always playing with their food (well, most of the time), and Bra would then kill Caulifla and Kale. That's my take.
I think people here are sleeping on Kefla. Her final attack had the potential to kill UIO Goku, who was above and beyond SSB at this point. Bra is strong, but she's not Ultra Instinct or Super Saiyan God strong. Kefla would wipe the floor with her, even if we were talking Majin Bra. She would then de-fuse most likely due to fusions always playing with their food (well, most of the time), and Bra would then kill Caulifla and Kale. That's my take.
Bra could just Senzu her way to victory until Kefla's fusion runs out. She seems to always carry beans in her gloves, so I can see her doing that.
I think people here are sleeping on Kefla. Her final attack had the potential to kill UIO Goku, who was above and beyond SSB at this point. Bra is strong, but she's not Ultra Instinct or Super Saiyan God strong. Kefla would wipe the floor with her, even if we were talking Majin Bra. She would then de-fuse most likely due to fusions always playing with their food (well, most of the time), and Bra would then kill Caulifla and Kale. That's my take.
Bra could just Senzu her way to victory until Kefla's fusion runs out. She seems to always carry beans in her gloves, so I can see her doing that.
Only a handful, judging by the latest chapter. Even then it wouldn't mean much and doesn't really change my opinion on how it would go down. Senzu or not, Kefla would mess around with her until the fusion wore out because of how vastly more powerful she is, then de-fuse and lose to pissed off out of control SS2 Bra.
Who do you think would win? They seem pretty evenly matched to me.
I think a good point of reference here is Gohan, since his DBM and DBS selves are roughly at the same power level (one stayed at his maximum constantly while the other trained back up to it), so that's what I'm gonna use in the following breakdown: Gohan (DBM) = Gohan (DBS) Goku (DBS) > Gohan Goku (DBS) = Kefla (she only had an advantage over him in their fight because Goku was badly fatigued) By extension of the above, and from what we know about Bra's power compared to Gohan's: Gohan < Kefla Bra (U16) > Gohan Both of these are seemingly close shaves in terms of power difference. The major difference I see here is experience level. Bra has the benefit of training from various highly experienced fighters, while Kefla has the direct fusion of two skillsets and combat experience, although personally I'd say Son Bra still has the advantage skill and experience wise. Both seem perfectly willing to fight dirty (Kefla taking advantage of an opponent's exhaustion from previous fights and Bra being underhanded by nature).
Overall, my assessment would be that Son bi-I mean Son Bra wins this one. She has superior experience and skills, and the fact that the power gap is narrow is mitigated by Kefla's status as a fusion shortening her time to give Son Bra the much needed beating she deserves. Oh well...
Still, I love how similar these characters are. Personality wise alone there are enough similarities to fill a book (arrogant, underhanded, condescending to others),but there's also origins (fusion, daughter of fusion, both from alternate versions of the main DBM universe). It's a real shame this fight will never actually happen. (although the incoming debates trying to contradict small extracts from this post certainly will)
First of all DBS Gohan >>>>> DBM Gohan.
DBS Gohan can hang with universe busters DBM Gohan is as powerful as his Buu arc self who is nowhere near close to being universal as a matter of fact no one in DBM has been stated to be capable of busting a universe.
Second Base Kefla alone would stomp any DBM character seeing as she dominated ToP SSG Goku who is way more powerful than his BoG arc self who was threatening the entire universe in his fight against heavily suppressed Beerus.
As a matter of fact by the end of the BoG arc SSJ Goku alone was crazy powerful.
Third SSJ Kefla would’ve beaten Goku if she had faced him prior to him fighting Jiren.
According to Whis himself SSJ Kefla’s power rivals Goku’s U7 spirit bomb that forced him to break his limits and go beyond his limits in order to survive it going from SSBKKX20 to UIO. imgur.com/a/9DRIDFL As a matter of fact it is heavily implied that Goku kept getting stronger and stronger throughout the entire tournament even though he was going from one fight to the other after the one hour special.
Just compare how SSBKKX20 Goku did against heavily suppressed Jiren in the one hour special to how regular SSB Goku fared against a Jiren who was finally showing a hint of his true power.
Finally SSJ2 Kefla had enough power to kill second time UIO Goku who was stated to be stronger than he was in his first appearance.
If we agree to use Gohan as a constant (which we really shouldn't because the Mystic power scaling in DBS is crap, but we agreed to), then Bra trumps Kefla.
Manga Kefla is roughly equal to Gohan while Bra is more than three Gohans combined. Anime Kefla is hard to gauge cause we can't really gauge Gohan to UI Goku.
Two different continuities. So if we take manga only, Bra is >>> Kefla. Using the anime is too hard to predict because the power scaling is total bullshit, but since we have a Vegetto comparison in terms of Beerus, then anime Kefla should annihilate Bra.
With no intention to offend, I have to say I think there's a bit of a disconnect here. Even if we assume Goku was extremely supressed in his spar with Gohan, he still had trouble as a Super Saiyan God against the unfused Caulifla and Kale. Lest we forget SSG Goku, as heavily implied both in the movies and the anime, was already far stronger than Vegetto's Super Saiyan - and Majinized Super Saiyan 2 Bra would probably still get creamed by the latter.
Not to mention anime Gohan was able to semi-compete with Dyspo, who gave Golden Frieza his fair share of trouble. In my opinion, if we use the anime as the base for our discussion, there's no comparison between the two saiyanettes.
Now, for the manga, I have naught: either Kefla is hilariously weak for a tournament-level fusion, or manga Gohan is stronger than his anime counterpart. I, for the sake of consistency between the two media, vote for the latter.
Buu arc Ultimate Gohan was getting his ass kicked by the likes of Buutenks without putting up much of a fight in the manga.
ToP Ultimate Gohan in DBS can go toe to toe with characters capable of obliterating Buutenks with little to no difficulty whatsoever.
Base Goku at the end of BoG stopped Beerus’s sphere of destruction that his SSJ self failed to stop beforehand that same SSJ Goku was stated to be as powerful as his SSG self that was fighting Beerus earlier. imgur.com/a/8ZXDET3 imgur.com/a/JKZa43e
RoF Base Goku was stated to be above his BoG arc self by Beerus at the beginning of the RoF arc.
Even if you want to disregard the statements and feats in both the BoG and the RoF arcs that’s fine because there is still evidence that Gohan is way more powerful than he was in the Buu arc.
Post u6 tournament Base Goku and Base Vegeta were so strong that the likes of SSJ3 Gotenks were nothing but fodder compared to them.
ToP Gohan on the other hand was easily able to fight pre ToP SSJ2 Goku and while he wasn’t on Base Toppo’s level at the very least he wasn’t one shotted by him.
DBS is just on a completely different level of power compared to DBM.
In DBM characters who were considered to be top tier in the Buu arc are still considered impressive.
In DBS most of the top tier Buu arc characters are fodder by the end of the very first arc.
If we agree to use Gohan as a constant (which we really shouldn't because the Mystic power scaling in DBS is crap, but we agreed to), then Bra trumps Kefla.
Manga Kefla is roughly equal to Gohan while Bra is more than three Gohans combined. Anime Kefla is hard to gauge cause we can't really gauge Gohan to UI Goku.
Two different continuities. So if we take manga only, Bra is >>> Kefla. Using the anime is too hard to predict because the power scaling is total bullshit, but since we have a Vegetto comparison in terms of Beerus, then anime Kefla should annihilate Bra.
Either the anime or manga version of Kefla would stomp.
Manga Kale on her own eliminated most of the ToP and even surprised MSSB Goku with her power.
Also, the base forms of the u6 girls are definitely stronger than Buu Base Goku and Base Vegeta seeing as Cabba was stated by Vegeta to be equal to himself in the u6 tournament arc moreover, Base Cabba himself was shown to be weaker than Base Caulifla, but of course, he was too much for Sase Caulifla to handle as an SSJ however it was also shown that Base kale was too fast for SSJ Cabba to keep up with. So logically since Kefla was created by two saiyans who are more powerful than the ones who created Vegito in the Buu arc she should be above that version of Vegito, which means that manga Gohan was undoubtedly more powerful than his Buu arc self that’s not up for debate.
If we agree to use Gohan as a constant (which we really shouldn't because the Mystic power scaling in DBS is crap, but we agreed to), then Bra trumps Kefla.
Manga Kefla is roughly equal to Gohan while Bra is more than three Gohans combined. Anime Kefla is hard to gauge cause we can't really gauge Gohan to UI Goku.
Two different continuities. So if we take manga only, Bra is >>> Kefla. Using the anime is too hard to predict because the power scaling is total bullshit, but since we have a Vegetto comparison in terms of Beerus, then anime Kefla should annihilate Bra.
Either the anime or manga version of Kefla would stomp.
Manga Kale on her own eliminated most of the ToP and even surprised MSSB Goku with her power.
What about Roshi who went toe to toe wit Jiren or Krilin who managed to hold SSJBlue Kamehameha from Goku?
are they stronger than all Buu saga characters too?
Either the anime or manga version of Kefla would stomp.
Manga Kale on her own eliminated most of the ToP and even surprised MSSB Goku with her power.
What about Roshi who went toe to toe wit Jiren or Krilin who managed to hold SSJBlue Kamehameha from Goku?
are they stronger than all Buu saga characters too?
Roshi didn’t go toe to toe with Jiren he dodged attacks and then he was stomped which was stupid, but hey it happened, and they made a point about it not being due to power as Roshi chastises Goku for believing that power is the only deciding factor in a fight.
Also, something to keep in mind that is Jiren was definitely suppressing his power in order to avoid killing Roshi so who knows what level of power he was using anyway.
As for Kuririn vs SSB Goku.
Goku was obviously sandbagging in that fight. Kuririn’s performance in the ToP alone proves that and one of the writers of Super said that Goku wasn’t serious when he went around fighting people in SSB prior to the tournament of power.
As far as them being above all the Buu arc characters is concerned in the manga they’re definitely not seeing as they were shown to be completely outclassed by manga Base Goku who doesn’t have the feats or the statements that his anime counterpart does so there’s is that.
As for the anime they didn’t do anything impressive power-wise to warrant placing them anywhere near Buu arc characters.
Kuririn just defeated some fodder and then he was eliminated.
Roshi fought against a bunch of fodder that we had no idea about how powerful they were furthermore he used his arsenal of techniques to defeat them like the mafuba instead of outright overpowering with the exception of Ganos, but even then he had to use all of his life force, and he had to be revived by Goku.
I fail to see how it’s not canon when it was stated to be the sequel to the original manga.
But leaving the whole DBS being canon issue aside I don’t see how that would impact the result of this hypothetical battle especially since one of the characters in it specifically the one you argued in favour of comes from a fan-made manga.
Dragonball Super is canon to Dragonball Super, no? The 'powerscaling' in that series is relevant because one of its characters makes up the subject of this discussion.
Sure, if we were talking about a fanmade, Buutenks-tier Kefla, you'd be absolutely right: vanilla DBS would be irrelevant and non-canonical. Here, however, we're talking about a character from specific media, with incoherent set parameters and feats. Thus, said media, even if non-canonical to the DBM universe, is pertinent to the conversation at hand.
What about Roshi who went toe to toe wit Jiren or Krilin who managed to hold SSJBlue Kamehameha from Goku?
are they stronger than all Buu saga characters too?
Roshi didn’t go toe to toe with Jiren he dodged attacks and then he was stomped which was stupid, but hey it happened, and they made a point about it not being due to power as Roshi chastises Goku for believing that power is the only deciding factor in a fight.
Also, something to keep in mind that is Jiren was definitely suppressing his power in order to avoid killing Roshi so who knows what level of power he was using anyway.
As for Kuririn vs SSB Goku.
Goku was obviously sandbagging in that fight. Kuririn’s performance in the ToP alone proves that and one of the writers of Super said that Goku wasn’t serious when he went around fighting people in SSB prior to the tournament of power.
As far as them being above all the Buu arc characters is concerned in the manga they’re definitely not seeing as they were shown to be completely outclassed by manga Base Goku who doesn’t have the feats or the statements that his anime counterpart does so there’s is that.
As for the anime they didn’t do anything impressive power-wise to warrant placing them anywhere near Buu arc characters.
Kuririn just defeated some fodder and then he was eliminated.
Roshi fought against a bunch of fodder that we had no idea about how powerful they were furthermore he used his arsenal of techniques to defeat them like the mafuba instead of outright overpowering with the exception of Ganos, but even then he had to use all of his life force, and he had to be revived by Goku.