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Post by godjacob on Jun 9, 2021 21:25:43 GMT
S Cells are a novel concept, I just wish we got more explanation in the series on the mechanics. Same for the Universe 6 Saiyan biology.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 9, 2021 23:42:33 GMT
S Cells are a novel concept, I just wish we got more explanation in the series on the mechanics. Same for the Universe 6 Saiyan biology. yeah. I think if we take s cells into account, then the u6 saiyans might have the most, but never worked to further their power. Maybe the oozaruu and the tails inhibited s cell growth. |
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Post by iron leaf on Jun 10, 2021 0:13:03 GMT
S-Cell are literaly Midi-Chlorians from Star Wars. I said it once, and I will say it anytime. Akira Toriyama turned into George Lucas. Just like Ridley Scott. I have no idea why demystification is such a big deal when reviving old, famous franchises? |
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Post by godjacob on Jun 10, 2021 0:33:58 GMT
S Cells are a novel concept, I just wish we got more explanation in the series on the mechanics. Same for the Universe 6 Saiyan biology. yeah. I think if we take s cells into account, then the u6 saiyans might have the most, but never worked to further their power. Maybe the oozaruu and the tails inhibited s cell growth. I like to headcanon that the U6 Saiyans grew out of tails, and that the inherent boost that came with the Oozaru power in part leaked into their base power. Sort of giving them a higher base power out of birth. |
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 10, 2021 1:06:46 GMT
S-Cell are literaly Midi-Chlorians from Star Wars. I said it once, and I will say it anytime. Akira Toriyama turned into George Lucas. Just like Ridley Scott. I have no idea why demystification is such a big deal when reviving old, famous franchises? I don't recall what midi chlorians were in star wars outside of them using the force. In fact, I stopped after ep2 on star wars. I hated the prequels. |
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Post by godjacob on Jun 10, 2021 1:14:46 GMT
S-Cell are literaly Midi-Chlorians from Star Wars. I said it once, and I will say it anytime. Akira Toriyama turned into George Lucas. Just like Ridley Scott. I have no idea why demystification is such a big deal when reviving old, famous franchises? To be fair S-Cell did come because Toriyama got questioned about it, specifically how Goten and Trunks became SS as kids so it actually was an attempt to give explanation to something fans were curious over. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 4:24:31 GMT
S-Cell are literaly Midi-Chlorians from Star Wars. I said it once, and I will say it anytime. Akira Toriyama turned into George Lucas. Just like Ridley Scott. I have no idea why demystification is such a big deal when reviving old, famous franchises?
Seeing as it wasn't explained in series, but in just an interview, and how Toriyama is a fan of American pop-culture references, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the whole S-Cell thing was him not only answering the fan question that godjacob alluded to you in his own response, but him making fun of it at the same time and showing his love of American pop-culture references at the same time. |
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 4:27:21 GMT
S-Cell are literaly Midi-Chlorians from Star Wars. I said it once, and I will say it anytime. Akira Toriyama turned into George Lucas. Just like Ridley Scott. I have no idea why demystification is such a big deal when reviving old, famous franchises?
Seeing as it wasn't explained in series, but in just an interview, and how Toriyama is a fan of American pop-culture references, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the whole S-Cell thing was him not only answering the fan question that godjacob alluded to you in his own response, but him making fun of it at the same time and showing his love of American pop-culture references at the same time. what are midi-clorians again? Like verbatim what do they say and by who? |
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Post by godjacob on Jun 12, 2021 4:44:17 GMT
Seeing as it wasn't explained in series, but in just an interview, and how Toriyama is a fan of American pop-culture references, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the whole S-Cell thing was him not only answering the fan question that godjacob alluded to you in his own response, but him making fun of it at the same time and showing his love of American pop-culture references at the same time. what are midi-clorians again? Like verbatim what do they say and by who? Basically it is some microscopic organism that helps explains how one can be Intune with the Force and also acts as a "measure" for how much potential with the Force one has. It is basically a science mechanic added to what had been up to that point a purely mystical element in the Star Wars mythos. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 6:30:55 GMT
supergojita3, I think godjacob pretty much said it all except which character was the one who mentioned them in canon and that was Liam Neeson, sorry Qui Gon Jinn.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 8:01:06 GMT
what are midi-clorians again? Like verbatim what do they say and by who? Basically it is some microscopic organism that helps explains how one can be Intune with the Force and also acts as a "measure" for how much potential with the Force one has. It is basically a science mechanic added to what had been up to that point a purely mystical element in the Star Wars mythos. so its science explaining magic. I'd say s cells are just science explaining biology, or other science. I can somewhat see the comparison, but s cells are logical and don't ruin db, while midi chlorians are ridiculous and ruin the mystic nature of star wars. on the other hand, I don't care for the dbs explanation of the db's being carved from shards from the super db's. so I'm being unbiased in this regard. not all of db lore introduced is good. much is hot garbage. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 18:22:28 GMT
Basically it is some microscopic organism that helps explains how one can be Intune with the Force and also acts as a "measure" for how much potential with the Force one has. It is basically a science mechanic added to what had been up to that point a purely mystical element in the Star Wars mythos. so its science explaining magic. I'd say s cells are just science explaining biology, or other science. I can somewhat see the comparison, but s cells are logical and don't ruin db, while midi chlorians are ridiculous and ruin the mystic nature of star wars. on the other hand, I don't care for the dbs explanation of the db's being carved from shards from the super db's. so I'm being unbiased in this regard. not all of db lore introduced is good. much is hot garbage. I agree that S-Cells actually aren't as bad as midichlorians even if they are based off such because as you so perfectly said it, they are just science explaining biology, which in itself is just a field of science. I also agree with what you said about most of DBS's additional lore being hot garbage. on the other hand, I don't care for the dbs explanation of the db's being carved from shards from the super db's. not all of db lore introduced is good. much is hot garbage. I also don't like this retcon. It's unnecessary, but I actually just thought of a good head-canon explanation that makes it much more agreeable to me at least and that's why I'm gonna add it to my head-canon vault. So what I just now came up with is that the DBs are still created thru magical means, but said magical means extracts shards from the original Super DBs and uses that as a base to create the DBs. This explanation is a means of explaining what DBS added to the lore in a way that doesn't have it subtract from what was originally said, but instead just provides an expansion by providing additional albeit I guess unnecessary additional information to what the original story said about the creation of the DBs. What do you think of that explanation? Does it make the BS about shards of the Super DBs much more agreeable to you like it does for me? |
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Post by godjacob on Jun 12, 2021 18:28:16 GMT
Personally I've been mostly okay with the new lore introduced (I do like the GoD concept and Angels personally) but yeah felt they could've just explained the Super Dragon Balls as being seperate creations from the main line Dragon Balls. Think the shard thing was unneeded.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 18:38:16 GMT
so its science explaining magic. I'd say s cells are just science explaining biology, or other science. I can somewhat see the comparison, but s cells are logical and don't ruin db, while midi chlorians are ridiculous and ruin the mystic nature of star wars. on the other hand, I don't care for the dbs explanation of the db's being carved from shards from the super db's. so I'm being unbiased in this regard. not all of db lore introduced is good. much is hot garbage. I agree that S-Cells actually aren't as bad as midichlorians even if they are based off such because as you so perfectly said it, they are just science explaining biology, which in itself is just a field of science. I also agree with what you said about most of DBS's additional lore being hot garbage. on the other hand, I don't care for the dbs explanation of the db's being carved from shards from the super db's. not all of db lore introduced is good. much is hot garbage. I also don't like this retcon. It's unnecessary, but I actually just thought of a good head-canon explanation that makes it much more agreeable to me at least and that's why I'm gonna add it to my head-canon vault. So what I just now came up with is that the DBs are still created thru magical means, but said magical means extracts shards from the original Super DBs and uses that as a base to create the DBs. This explanation is a means of explaining what DBS added to the lore in a way that doesn't have it subtract from what was originally said, but instead just provides an expansion by providing additional albeit I guess unnecessary additional information to what the original story said about the creation of the DBs. What do you think of that explanation? Does it make the BS about shards of the Super DBs much more agreeable to you like it does for me? I don't care for the super db's beign carved up to make the namek db's. How did kami make his db's if they require the super db's? and if you don't need to carve off shards, why carve them at all? then theres the other namek in dbs who made 2 db's that have no recharge time. are we to assume they all had shards handy? dende didn't even ask for shards to make new db's, and they went with restoring kamis as to make the db's usable quickly, rather than the time frame dende was asking for. its more of a plot hole that isn't explained in universe, and requires fans to make up their own excuses. But even head canon explanations are still plot holes. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 18:53:59 GMT
I agree that S-Cells actually aren't as bad as midichlorians even if they are based off such because as you so perfectly said it, they are just science explaining biology, which in itself is just a field of science. I also agree with what you said about most of DBS's additional lore being hot garbage. I also don't like this retcon. It's unnecessary, but I actually just thought of a good head-canon explanation that makes it much more agreeable to me at least and that's why I'm gonna add it to my head-canon vault. So what I just now came up with is that the DBs are still created thru magical means, but said magical means extracts shards from the original Super DBs and uses that as a base to create the DBs. This explanation is a means of explaining what DBS added to the lore in a way that doesn't have it subtract from what was originally said, but instead just provides an expansion by providing additional albeit I guess unnecessary additional information to what the original story said about the creation of the DBs. What do you think of that explanation? Does it make the BS about shards of the Super DBs much more agreeable to you like it does for me? I don't care for the super db's beign carved up to make the namek db's. How did kami make his db's if they require the super db's? and if you don't need to carve off shards, why carve them at all? then theres the other namek in dbs who made 2 db's that have no recharge time. are we to assume they all had shards handy? dende didn't even ask for shards to make new db's, and they went with restoring kamis as to make the db's usable quickly, rather than the time frame dende was asking for. its more of a plot hole that isn't explained in universe, and requires fans to make up their own excuses. But even head canon explanations are still plot holes.
Did they say that Guru or whoever was the one who originally created the Namekian DBs actually physically took the shards? Even if that is the case, I don't really think it's all that big a problem since Magic Materialism is used to create DBs and you could always just say that such highly advanced creation needs a catalyst and the user of said magic just instinctively magicks up the catalyst from the source. That's what my head canon explanation says at least and I think it actually does a great job explaining things without leaving any plot holes.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 19:07:45 GMT
I don't care for the super db's beign carved up to make the namek db's. How did kami make his db's if they require the super db's? and if you don't need to carve off shards, why carve them at all? then theres the other namek in dbs who made 2 db's that have no recharge time. are we to assume they all had shards handy? dende didn't even ask for shards to make new db's, and they went with restoring kamis as to make the db's usable quickly, rather than the time frame dende was asking for. its more of a plot hole that isn't explained in universe, and requires fans to make up their own excuses. But even head canon explanations are still plot holes.
Did they say that Guru or whoever was the one who originally created the Namekian DBs actually physically took the shards? Even if that is the case, I don't really think it's all that big a problem since Magic Materialism is used to create DBs and you could always just say that such highly advanced creation needs a catalyst and the user of said magic just instinctively magicks up the catalyst from the source. That's what my head canon explanation says at least and I think it actually does a great job explaining things without leaving any plot holes.
who could take the shards then? assuming it wasn't guru? did freeza who can survive in space help them? his whole clan is full of ass holes. magic materialization is seemingly limited, and well, they'd have to carve the shards specifically from the super db's. it isn't just the plot hole of it, but rather it takes away from what made the nameks unique. they needed shards of a thing to make a weaker thing. And it doesn't explain kami making the db's. how did he get the shards then? keep in mind, he didn't have a usable space ship to go to the super db, carve it up and make new db's on earth. his ship was wrecked and unusable. they had to rebuild it at capsule corp. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 20:32:43 GMT
Did they say that Guru or whoever was the one who originally created the Namekian DBs actually physically took the shards? Even if that is the case, I don't really think it's all that big a problem since Magic Materialism is used to create DBs and you could always just say that such highly advanced creation needs a catalyst and the user of said magic just instinctively magicks up the catalyst from the source. That's what my head canon explanation says at least and I think it actually does a great job explaining things without leaving any plot holes.
who could take the shards then? assuming it wasn't guru? did freeza who can survive in space help them? his whole clan is full of ass holes. magic materialization is seemingly limited, and well, they'd have to carve the shards specifically from the super db's. it isn't just the plot hole of it, but rather it takes away from what made the nameks unique. they needed shards of a thing to make a weaker thing. And it doesn't explain kami making the db's. how did he get the shards then? keep in mind, he didn't have a usable space ship to go to the super db, carve it up and make new db's on earth. his ship was wrecked and unusable. they had to rebuild it at capsule corp.
I think removing shards from the Super DBs can be explained within the realm of Magic Materialism when you realize that it's an advanced form of Magic Materialism only capable of being performed by members of the Dragon Clan. Also we haven't even been properly told how Magic Materialism works in the first place, so for all we know it might not even create something from nothing and instead just lets you take something you want from somewhere else AND if that is the case then it makes perfect sense that Dragon Clan members using an advanced form of Magic Materialism specific to the Namekian Dragon Clan could remove shards from the Super DBs with said advanced form of Magic Materialism.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 20:42:35 GMT
who could take the shards then? assuming it wasn't guru? did freeza who can survive in space help them? his whole clan is full of ass holes. magic materialization is seemingly limited, and well, they'd have to carve the shards specifically from the super db's. it isn't just the plot hole of it, but rather it takes away from what made the nameks unique. they needed shards of a thing to make a weaker thing. And it doesn't explain kami making the db's. how did he get the shards then? keep in mind, he didn't have a usable space ship to go to the super db, carve it up and make new db's on earth. his ship was wrecked and unusable. they had to rebuild it at capsule corp.
I think removing shards from the Super DBs can be explained within the realm of Magic Materialism when you realize that it's an advanced form of Magic Materialism only capable of being performed by members of the Dragon Clan. Also we haven't even been properly told how Magic Materialism works in the first place, so for all we know it might not even create something from nothing and instead just lets you take something you want from somewhere else AND if that is the case then it makes perfect sense that Dragon Clan members using an advanced form of Magic Materialism specific to the Namekian Dragon Clan could remove shards from the Super DBs with said advanced form of Magic Materialism.
Thats circular reasoning. it works because we don't know how it works. Thats also the definition of a plot "hole". it isn't explained how it works, so its a plot hole. Also, how did they find the super db's? they don't have a dragon radar. Thats another plot hole. bulma had to build one, and the regular one didn't work. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jun 12, 2021 20:52:17 GMT
I think removing shards from the Super DBs can be explained within the realm of Magic Materialism when you realize that it's an advanced form of Magic Materialism only capable of being performed by members of the Dragon Clan. Also we haven't even been properly told how Magic Materialism works in the first place, so for all we know it might not even create something from nothing and instead just lets you take something you want from somewhere else AND if that is the case then it makes perfect sense that Dragon Clan members using an advanced form of Magic Materialism specific to the Namekian Dragon Clan could remove shards from the Super DBs with said advanced form of Magic Materialism.
Thats circular reasoning. it works because we don't know how it works. Thats also the definition of a plot "hole". it isn't explained how it works, so its a plot hole. Also, how did they find the super db's? they don't have a dragon radar. Thats another plot hole. bulma had to build one, and the regular one didn't work.
Except I think you are working under a false understanding of what make a plot hole a plot hole. A plot hole is when something said later on in a story is inconsistent with what was previously established to be true and there is no means of providing a reasonable explanation to explain it so that it doesn't contradict what was already established. Seeing as I've provided a means to explain it that is both simple and doesn't contradict what was already established then it's not a plot hole for the time being and will only become one if Magic Materialism is further expanded upon by the canon of the story and that further expansion doesn't fit with my explanation and also kills off any other means of logically explaining it in a way that doesn't contradict what's been established by the canon.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jun 12, 2021 21:36:23 GMT
Thats circular reasoning. it works because we don't know how it works. Thats also the definition of a plot "hole". it isn't explained how it works, so its a plot hole. Also, how did they find the super db's? they don't have a dragon radar. Thats another plot hole. bulma had to build one, and the regular one didn't work.
Except I think you are working under a false understanding of what make a plot hole a plot hole. A plot hole is when something said later on in a story is inconsistent with what was previously established to be true and there is no means of providing a reasonable explanation to explain it so that it doesn't contradict what was already established. Seeing as I've provided a means to explain it that is both simple and doesn't contradict what was already established then it's not a plot hole for the time being and will only become one if Magic Materialism is further expanded upon by the canon of the story and that further expansion doesn't fit with my explanation and also kills off any other means of logically explaining it in a way that doesn't contradict what's been established by the canon.
right.so it should be impossible for kami to make db's based on the premise. it should be impossible for them to find the super db's. it should be impossible to carve said shards off even if they did find them. its not explained how they could or would have the means to do any of these things either. as to magic materialization, you keep saying that, but so far all piccolo did was make a sword and clothes. and a sand clock. magic materialization doesn't explain finding the damn things in the 1st place. by your own definition supplied, its unlikely, and in some cases impossible. |
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