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Post by Ashanark on Nov 12, 2016 18:59:13 GMT
Perhaps saligir went Harry potter, sorcerer's stone for the villian(s). Maybe instead of wanting to wish for immortality his primary wish is just to come back to life. Maybe xxi died after sealing old kai Mafuba style and he possessed some old wizard to try to get him to wish his real body back to life. - just another crazy theory. [...] Also one other point that was brought up that brings me back to voldemort. It could be that xxi can send others to other dimensions but that doesn't mean he can send himself - as in I'll just go to u34 and grab some dragon balls from namek. He could be trapped somehow (like maybe in an empty otherworld) and had it not been for the Varga's he would have been forever stuck. You've really got me thinking with that one. "Villain wants to unlock his imprisoned true form" is a story trope as old as the fantasy genre itself, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happening here. Perhaps Beastie XXI can only travel across dimensions if a sufficiently big/strong portal is made to let him through; the U5 Apartment is some really tiny hole Old Man XXI made that allows him to use his power, but only in about a 20x20 foot radius. This is why Old Man XXI has to use trickery and cheese moves to win his fights; though his true form is super strong, the Old Man isn't. That still doesn't explain, though, how he got Android 18's remote. The only way he could is if he either wished for it on the Dragon Balls (then why would he need the tournament's set?) or could dimension-hop to a timeline where the remote still exists (in which case, why didn't he go to another timeline for Dragon Balls instead of coming to the tournament?) The remote looked exactly the same as the one Trunks knew about, so I doubt XXI made it. I'm afraid it's too early to tell. We just have no idea what it is. If Old Kai knows him, then he's vastly old (at least, in the 70 million+ range). He might be as old as time itself. He also exists on U9, so that makes me think he exists on all universes. Maybe he's been dormant all these millennia and has now awakened in U5 and wrecked it completely. And perhaps they're trying to avoid XXI awakening in all of the other parallel universes.
Maybe he's just chaos and death, opposed to a Kaioshin which is order, peace and life. It'd be really ironic if Salagir came up with the idea of a God of Destruction opposed to the Kais, five years before Battle of Gods came out. He'll have to pull the same thing he did with the Super Saiyan Oozaru: XXI: "I AM THE GOD OF DESTRUCTION!" Spectator: "But this is from DBSuper--" Salagir/Asura: "No, we thought of it independently!"
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 12, 2016 20:42:45 GMT
I'm afraid it's too early to tell. We just have no idea what it is. If Old Kai knows him, then he's vastly old (at least, in the 70 million+ range). He might be as old as time itself. He also exists on U9, so that makes me think he exists on all universes. Maybe he's been dormant all these millennia and has now awakened in U5 and wrecked it completely. And perhaps they're trying to avoid XXI awakening in all of the other parallel universes.
Maybe he's just chaos and death, opposed to a Kaioshin which is order, peace and life. It'd be really ironic if Salagir came up with the idea of a God of Destruction opposed to the Kais, five years before Battle of Gods came out. He'll have to pull the same thing he did with the Super Saiyan Oozaru: XXI: "I AM THE GOD OF DESTRUCTION!" Spectator: "But this is from DBSuper--" Salagir/Asura: "No, we thought of it independently!" So if Salagir really did make his version of a God of Destruction, how exactly would he validate that he made it "5 years ago." He might be able to go back to his old files and show his concepts and such but anyone can say the date was modified in the computer..
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Nov 13, 2016 12:31:54 GMT
Well, XXI was found asking some tips on how to win against his next opponent. So probably he's not after the wishes after all. His dragon or twinkly eyes must have answers for everything. Pretty much like "Mr. I know it all" from DB SUPER
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Post by Andres on Nov 13, 2016 15:56:46 GMT
Well, XXI was found asking some tips on how to win against his next opponent. So probably he's not after the wishes after all. His dragon or twinkly eyes must have answers for everything. Pretty much like "Mr. I know it all" from DB SUPER Actually, he asked "how can I vanquish A18 EASILY in this tournament?"
"Easily" being the key word. He needs a way to beat opponents without raising suspicion nor revealing his true form. He just saw he could vaporize Zen Buu with a mere ki blast. Trust me, he needs no help in terms of winning his matches, specially against someone was weak as A18. But he needed a way to do it easily and inconspicuous. He got it.
In fact, he's probably powerful enough to vaporize the whole Zen Buu in this Apartment 5 Form in the next round. But I'm pretty sure he'll ask this miniature Porunga (that's head canon, of course) how to beat Buu easily and the dragon may instruct to turn him back into a coocoon or an incantation to defuse everyone inside of him. And perhaps Zen Buu has a counter for it.
We'll just have to wait to see.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Nov 14, 2016 14:21:20 GMT
Thankyou Andres,
Well that would be pretty exciting to see next!
Looking at that hand, it feels like a cross between a Namek and Varga.
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Post by turbocharger on Nov 14, 2016 17:35:14 GMT
Yo dude, shut up and take my like already! This is seriously my favorite fan theory yet!!
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Post by fooshin on Nov 15, 2016 20:18:15 GMT
That still doesn't explain, though, how he got Android 18's remote. The only way he could is if he either wished for it on the Dragon Balls (then why would he need the tournament's set?) or could dimension-hop to a timeline where the remote still exists (in which case, why didn't he go to another timeline for Dragon Balls instead of coming to the tournament?) The remote looked exactly the same as the one Trunks knew about. Yeah, kinda forgot about that one. It could be he merely asked how to build one, and using the parts to the TV remote in his room he was able to whip one together. It would go against my theory if he could magically teleport one in from another dimension. So that's out. Not sure what way other than him building one or wishing one could make this happen. It's pretty obvious from his statement that he wants the wishes from the tournament dragonballs so whatever he's got cant do the same as those. Another thought, I wonder if xxi is namekian. We're not sure if there's any life in his universe so if that's the case there's no way he'd have functional dragon balls unless he was their creator. I just looked again and I still can't tell if that's his arm or the dragon's. Either way it's a bit awkwardly positioned. It makes way more sense that he says "you" and then attacks then some dragon that happens to be summoned, but then what the hell is he that he has a dragon like arm? Why down on gt so much but then make your main villian another "shadow" dragon?
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Post by fooshin on Nov 15, 2016 20:52:38 GMT
I guess another thing that plays well with the idea that he's trapped/dead is that why wouldn't he just enter the tournament and get his wishes the normal way. Assuming that his real form is this dragon creature that even zen buu is in awe of. He is clearly powerful and knowledgable enough to easily win. It's not like he would be worried the kais wouldn't let him enter. After all old kai wasn't there. He was essentially killed off 75 million years ago so it's not like anyone would even know who he was.
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Post by Salagir on Nov 15, 2016 22:03:50 GMT
Back to the forum because Caihlem told me to go read this! This is a superb article, well written and highly interesting! I love it! And the answers are also very interesting as well! Now.... I can't comment anything about it... for obvious reasons... I can say (I already said it before) that all Baddack's visions will happen (and I hope you're not in a hurry). I wanted to add more facts but I didn't find any that wouldn't err... say too much. I have to go now, I need to modify some of my old files dates...
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Post by superyoshi on Nov 16, 2016 21:17:32 GMT
Is anyone familiar with BoD? Where Vegeta reaches super Saiyan against Frieza instead of Goku? Well anyway it branches off into a completely different story with dragons and I'm wondering if xxi is one of those dragons. Maybe the dragon wants to destroy every set of Dragonballs in every universe and free all the dragons
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Post by mbg on Nov 18, 2016 0:01:03 GMT
Just thinking a little about the brackets here, we all know that the right bracket seems to be stronger than the left... but how much stronger? Let's do a little rough thinking, based on the roughest powers we can figure.
- Nobody in the left bracket seems to be stronger than Buuhan. Goku and Vegeta aren't much stronger than they were at the end of the series, Cell's gotten a lot better but it's debatable as to whether he could even beat Gohan, and everyone else is way behind even that. Meanwhile, the right bracket contains Vegito, Buu, Broly, and both Gotenkses, who speak for themselves, along with Gast and Bra, who are likely on par.
- The left bracket contains nobody stronger than Buuhan, but it features a lot of people who'd have issues with old Freezer. You've got three Ginyu Force members plus Sauza, a ton of U10 fighters that'd probably have trouble with Raditz, and bar Romanesco, every single Saiyan that couldn't access Super Saiyan. There are more people in the right bracket that have Super Saiyan 2 than people in the left with any form of it. There's also I'K'L, who's literally a fetus.
- Multiple right-bracket fighters have very unusual advantages. Two of the Heliorites (who can cut through and kill anything), Arale and Nekomajin are gag-manga-powered, Captain Coldmilk can switch bodies, Syd can drain power, Raichi's got an entire army, and Akira Toriyama can beat any character he's created by simply declaring "And then he had a heart attack and died." By contrast, most of the left-bracket fighters are fairly conventional, with little in the way of tricky or unusual abilities. Tidar and Kat are the only fighters I'd describe as gimmicky; Majin Buu and Dabura have one-hit-kill attacks but only use them as a last resort and rarely even then, and Tapion relies on Hirudegarn, but once Hirudegarn's hit the battlefield, he's mostly straightforward.
- There are actually six android or cyborg opponents in the tournament, not counting Cell: Yamcha, 16, 17, and 18 are obvious, but Arale is one too, and so's the Tori-bot. Five of them are in the right bracket. There's also four fighters who rely on technology to battle - the three Heliorites and Raichi. Of them, three are in the right bracket. This probably isn't a coincidence.
- XXI's quarter, the upper right, contains Vegito, Broly, Buu, and both Gotenkses - otherwise known as "the top five fighters in the tournament, assuming Bra and Gast aren't lucky." It also contains Arale, the most powerful android. It's also worth noting that Mary Sue is in the bracket, and though she's weak, that's only because she's the wrong kind of Mary Sue (a romantically-inclined one rather than a combat-inclined one).
So... yeah, there's a plan going.
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Post by Son Pan on Nov 18, 2016 21:00:01 GMT
^ It fits in with Buu's statement on manipulating the whole event from start to finish. I could see him doing this as a plan to test out XXI and stronger opponents, while simultaneously making all the fights a bit more even to creating more entertainment, which also fits in with Buu giving gifts to other contestants to help them out better against contestants who were out of their league.
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Post by Riskfan on Nov 21, 2016 22:44:31 GMT
Uhh... this may be a bit out of place but...
We know that XXI is powerful, without a doubt, but why does he need to win? Whats stopping him from killing everyone and taking the dragon balls?
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Post by fooshin on Nov 21, 2016 22:57:09 GMT
Uhh... this may be a bit out of place but... We know that XXI is powerful, without a doubt, but why does he need to win? Whats stopping him from killing everyone and taking the dragon balls? Perhaps he's a chronic rule follower. Wants to win "fair" and square.
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Post by Son Pan on Nov 22, 2016 4:19:58 GMT
Uhh... this may be a bit out of place but... We know that XXI is powerful, without a doubt, but why does he need to win? Whats stopping him from killing everyone and taking the dragon balls? He could just be pragmatic. Why fight everyone at the tournament and risk being sent back home before he gets his wish when he play along win the tournament and get his wish by the tournament rules and have no one stop him? If he is really the same enemy who sealed Old Kai in the Z-sword then he may not want to risk exposing himself to the Kais.
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Post by fooshin on Nov 22, 2016 16:31:19 GMT
Uhh... this may be a bit out of place but... We know that XXI is powerful, without a doubt, but why does he need to win? Whats stopping him from killing everyone and taking the dragon balls? He could just be pragmatic. Why fight everyone at the tournament and risk being sent back home before he gets his wish when he play along win the tournament and get his wish by the tournament rules and have no one stop him? If he is really the same enemy who sealed Old Kai in the Z-sword then he may not want to risk exposing himself to the Kais. Just maybe... but perhaps we're all reading it wrong when xxi says, "too bad. I'll have my wishes when I win this tournament." Maybe what he really means is... too bad they brought all those people back. Now I gotta make them dead again. After I win this tournament (for shits and giggles), I'm just going to kill everyone and once everyone's dead, then all my wishes will have come true - no dragon balls required.
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Post by Riskfan on Nov 22, 2016 16:33:29 GMT
He could just be pragmatic. Why fight everyone at the tournament and risk being sent back home before he gets his wish when he play along win the tournament and get his wish by the tournament rules and have no one stop him? If he is really the same enemy who sealed Old Kai in the Z-sword then he may not want to risk exposing himself to the Kais. Just maybe... but perhaps we're all reading it wrong when xxi says, "too bad. I'll have my wishes when I win this tournament." Maybe what he really means is... too bad they brought all those people back. Now I gotta make them dead again. After I win this tournament (for shits and giggles), I'm just going to kill everyone and once everyone's dead, then all my wishes will have come true - no dragon balls required. XXI seems like the type of person that wouldn't kill everyone, but torture them just for shits and giggles. Maybe after the tournement he plans on driving everyone insane, as eldritch abominations do.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 26, 2016 19:32:12 GMT
Is anyone familiar with BoD? Where Vegeta reaches super Saiyan against Frieza instead of Goku? Well anyway it branches off into a completely different story with dragons and I'm wondering if xxi is one of those dragons. Maybe the dragon wants to destroy every set of Dragonballs in every universe and free all the dragons I'm quite sure XXI is some kind of Dragon god too, that being inside his room had Shenron-like eyes he(XXI) himself in his true form was like a dragon of some sort, that's why the room was filled with darkness, the same that happens when the characters summon Shenron and Porunga on Namek and XXI somehow acquired Dr. Gero's remote control, only a dragon wish could grant something like this out of thin air, he asked this other being how to defeat A18 easely, It probably said that it would be ease with the remote control so XXI wished for the remote and defeated her later. Now, I can't understand why he need Porunga wishes? Maybe he is a limited dragon although he is a free one unlike Porunga and Shenron, and he want his full capacitiy again? His enslaved(?) dragon can't grant him this so they must demand it from a stronger dragon like Porunga.
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Post by fooshin on Nov 29, 2016 1:31:39 GMT
Andres,
Regarding buu being aware of xxi as a threat and intentionally placing him where he was I'm not so sure. He shares the same look of shock and disbelief that all the others had on page 768. Granted, once again kais are shown but not grand in the circle. Then later buu tries for the rematch and flips out... it is clear that he still doesn't think much of xxi that he demands the rematch after seeing the unfair fight. Now just to quench the conspiracy that his whole flipping out and pretending to get caught by gast theory... it is clear that when Santa buu passes by gast's room that he takes him as a serious threat by his comment.
Later he goes into his room without a clue of what to expect. This is not a buu who knows anything about xxi. Certainly not in advance thanks to Grand. Yes, it's possible that being one of the few unknowns in the tournament he specifically put him in his bracket and used Vegetto to test him out. I just don't see how he could have been working with grand though anywhere near up to sometime after being captured and while I can see grand sending him on a mission to investigate, I can't see how grand knew anything about him prior.
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Post by fooshin on Nov 29, 2016 2:49:16 GMT
I guess one other minor thing. It looks like xxi's tournament appearance is a bit namekian. He's got the pointy ears and the beehive nugget of an older one. Obviously there's no antenna and I'm assuming he's not green.
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