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Post by Argelios on Jan 1, 2017 20:31:15 GMT
In an alternate Universe the Vargas announce the next fight:  VS  |
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Post by Andres on Jan 1, 2017 20:38:28 GMT
Yamcha. The android seems to be a quite stronger than A17 & A18, yet Bardock fails to an A16 tier opponent. I expect this to be mirroring A18 vs Vegeta.
Plus, he's cool as fuck!
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 1, 2017 23:16:18 GMT
My money is on Yamecha. 17 and 18 were extremely powerful through Gero's cybernetic enhancements and they were just ordinary humans. A trained warrior like Yamecha being made into a cyborg could make for a much stronger than Android 16. Bardock doesn't seem to be at 16's level.
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 2, 2017 17:06:38 GMT
Yamcha's hair alone would crush Bardock.
Nah, I think this is a great matchup. I'd say Bardock's Super Saiyan is so strong that the two would be about evenly matched for strength (Piccolo vs. 17 style) but Yamcha probably has superior technique. Bardock would be forced to use up a lot of energy in powerful attacks to try and keep pace with Yamcha's skill, burning himself out and allowing Yamcha's cybernetic enhancements to win the day. Quick fight, fun to watch, but Yamcha wins this handily.
It's funny--Yamcha is the Butt Monkey of Dragon Ball but in U9 I'm pretty certain he's the strongest by a large margin.
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Jan 2, 2017 18:40:49 GMT
It's funny--Yamcha is the Butt Monkey of Dragon Ball but in U9 I'm pretty certain he's the strongest by a large margin.
It's also funny, according to Tien he still never makes it past the first round of their tournaments.
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 2, 2017 18:54:56 GMT
It's funny--Yamcha is the Butt Monkey of Dragon Ball but in U9 I'm pretty certain he's the strongest by a large margin.
It's also funny, according to Tien he still never makes it past the first round of their tournaments.
So far I don't think there's been any evidence that Krillin or Tien are past Super Saiyan in raw strength, while Yamcha couldn't even be touched by the Android 18 who could beat SS Future Gohan. So I guess Yamcha either keeps being a Good Samaritan and forfeiting, or else they are referencing the earlier tournaments of Dragon Ball, before Yamcha became a Super Saiyan-destroying cyborg. Even without Goku the tournaments would've played out similarly as in U18, I think. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 19:00:24 GMT
Hmmm... it's hard to say. While we know that Bardock is around 17 and 18 in terms of power. Yamcha is harder to pin down due to the only opponent he fought being weaker than she was in canon by an unspecified amount. Though in pure skill it's most likely Yamcha.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jan 2, 2017 22:56:50 GMT
It's also funny, according to Tien he still never makes it past the first round of their tournaments.
So far I don't think there's been any evidence that Krillin or Tien are past Super Saiyan in raw strength, while Yamcha couldn't even be touched by the Android 18 who could beat SS Future Gohan. So I guess Yamcha either keeps being a Good Samaritan and forfeiting, or else they are referencing the earlier tournaments of Dragon Ball, before Yamcha became a Super Saiyan-destroying cyborg. Even without Goku the tournaments would've played out similarly as in U18, I think. I'm sure Tien would have been able to wreck an Android even during his Cell saga self. His KiKoHo back then could hold back Semi-Perfect Cell. His 4 handed Shin-KiKoHo should be at least 5x stronger. |
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Post by Ashanark on Jan 2, 2017 23:06:26 GMT
So far I don't think there's been any evidence that Krillin or Tien are past Super Saiyan in raw strength, while Yamcha couldn't even be touched by the Android 18 who could beat SS Future Gohan. So I guess Yamcha either keeps being a Good Samaritan and forfeiting, or else they are referencing the earlier tournaments of Dragon Ball, before Yamcha became a Super Saiyan-destroying cyborg. Even without Goku the tournaments would've played out similarly as in U18, I think. I'm sure Tien would have been able to wreck an Android even during his Cell saga self. His KiKoHo back then could hold back Semi-Perfect Cell. His 4 handed Shin-KiKoHo should be at least 5x stronger. I'd said I don't think Tien is past Super Saiyan in raw strength. I wouldn't consider the Kikoho raw strength, though I agree that U9 Tien's improved version probably hits harder than anything else U9 can dish out (excluding Krillin's Kienzan, which wouldn't be much use against foes like Cell or Buu anyway). I doubt Tien could beat Yamcha in an arm wrestle, but they could probably kill the same tier of opponent. Same level of dangerousness, but not the same power level. I could be wrong. I think U9 Tien vs. base form Goku would be a pretty awesome fight to see. |
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Post by The Masterman on Jan 2, 2017 23:07:13 GMT
I say Bardock, because what if he had a vision of the fight? He'd have a pretty good advantage over Yamcha.
Unless that vision showed him losing, which obviously he wouldn't be able to prevent but if it's a vision of him winning then he has the upper hand.
As for Yamcha I do see him being stronger but for some reason I see Bardock hitting harder and trying to make every hit count.
Also it wouldn't surprise me if Bardock managed a new Super Saiyan form during the battle especially if he gets pushed hard enough.
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Post by thejakub on Jan 2, 2017 23:15:26 GMT
It's also funny, according to Tien he still never makes it past the first round of their tournaments.
So far I don't think there's been any evidence that Krillin or Tien are past Super Saiyan in raw strength, while Yamcha couldn't even be touched by the Android 18 who could beat SS Future Gohan. So I guess Yamcha either keeps being a Good Samaritan and forfeiting, or else they are referencing the earlier tournaments of Dragon Ball, before Yamcha became a Super Saiyan-destroying cyborg. Even without Goku the tournaments would've played out similarly as in U18, I think. This Android 18, due to the passage of time, may have been even much weaker than SS Future Gohan - Yamcha warned A17 that he might not be able to survive 1000x gravity which did not make a big difference to Frieza at the level of 50% of full power. |
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Post by Rafael on Jan 3, 2017 4:54:59 GMT
Hum, I would say 65% chances in favor of Yamucha, with his artificial enhacements(assuming that Bulma didn't improved Dr. Gero's infinite bateries) he is as strong as U14 android 17 now add that to his natural energy and trained body I would put him maybe a little stronger than A16, plus he has "infinite" stamina and energy and I'll assume here that he wasn't taught how to use the Kaioken, so he can win rather easily if he wishes to do so but Bardock can probably inflict serious damage if he took Yamucha by surprise somehow.
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Post by Eldagusto on Jan 3, 2017 5:25:36 GMT
When looking back on 17's fight with Pickles I really have to wonder. I think 17's physiology made him harder and stronger and quicker then Pickles, because he was not a fighter, just a teenager with a computer brain and a super body. This made it seem like he was equal to Pickles in power, but Pickles is superior fighting skills closed the gap between the artificial speed and reflexes of 17. And Pickles over all greater power allowed his moves to go toe to toe with 17 and exceed him when he used the hidden reserves when Cell came and 17 glimpsed his foe's true power. 17 is supposed to have infinite stamina and energy, but that only works under laboratory conditions/against inferior foes. But fighting against Pickles made him show signs of injury and fatigue, which he was likely in denial of.
But saying Bardock is under Android 16 is not necessarily accurate. Base Form Ginyucold puts him at somewhere around 16 and Imperfect Cell, and possibly even greater at max power. So there is room for Bardock to be perhaps just under or even around Super Vegeta level.
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Post by Son Pan on Jan 3, 2017 6:33:49 GMT
I think that is too strong for Bardock. He never really had an edge in his match with Cold even before Cold used his max power. Piccolo was even estimating the power Cold's true form at its base may have been on anywhere from 17 or 16's level. If he had been more sure he would have said Cold was as strong as Imperfect Cell.
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Jan 3, 2017 23:29:06 GMT
I say Bardock, because what if he had a vision of the fight? He'd have a pretty good advantage over Yamcha. Unless that vision showed him losing, which obviously he wouldn't be able to prevent but if it's a vision of him winning then he has the upper hand. As for Yamcha I do see him being stronger but for some reason I see Bardock hitting harder and trying to make every hit count. Also it wouldn't surprise me if Bardock managed a new Super Saiyan form during the battle especially if he gets pushed hard enough.
Bardock's visions aren't that detailed, he usually only gets vague snippets of events to come and he has to work out what they mean.
His visions are more of a hindrance in combat than anything, they usually end up distracting him long enough for his opponent to get a free blow.
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Post by godyamcha on Jan 3, 2022 15:56:24 GMT
yamcha im android arc/cell games would crush ssj bardock
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 3, 2022 22:20:46 GMT
Yamcha, as much as we love to crap on the guy U9 Yamcha is clearly at least as strong as #17 if not even stronger which is pretty much where Bardock is at. What's more is Yamcha is a highly skilled fighter and he is still youthful while Bardock is quite old at this point. I say it's a good match though since Bardock could certainly hold his own.
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 3, 2022 22:23:53 GMT
When looking back on 17's fight with Pickles I really have to wonder. I think 17's physiology made him harder and stronger and quicker then Pickles, because he was not a fighter, just a teenager with a computer brain and a super body. This made it seem like he was equal to Pickles in power, but Pickles is superior fighting skills closed the gap between the artificial speed and reflexes of 17. And Pickles over all greater power allowed his moves to go toe to toe with 17 and exceed him when he used the hidden reserves when Cell came and 17 glimpsed his foe's true power. 17 is supposed to have infinite stamina and energy, but that only works under laboratory conditions/against inferior foes. But fighting against Pickles made him show signs of injury and fatigue, which he was likely in denial of. But saying Bardock is under Android 16 is not necessarily accurate. Base Form Ginyucold puts him at somewhere around 16 and Imperfect Cell, and possibly even greater at max power. So there is room for Bardock to be perhaps just under or even around Super Vegeta level. Nah, Barodck is definitely not Super Vegeta level. 100% 4th Form Cold/Ginyu is. Bardock is more like #17 and #18 (maybe #16). That's why Cold dominated the whole fight. |
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Post by drewsaga on Jan 3, 2022 22:48:41 GMT
I'm sure Tien would have been able to wreck an Android even during his Cell saga self. His KiKoHo back then could hold back Semi-Perfect Cell. His 4 handed Shin-KiKoHo should be at least 5x stronger. I'd said I don't think Tien is past Super Saiyan in raw strength. I wouldn't consider the Kikoho raw strength, though I agree that U9 Tien's improved version probably hits harder than anything else U9 can dish out (excluding Krillin's Kienzan, which wouldn't be much use against foes like Cell or Buu anyway). I doubt Tien could beat Yamcha in an arm wrestle, but they could probably kill the same tier of opponent. Same level of dangerousness, but not the same power level. I could be wrong. I think U9 Tien vs. base form Goku would be a pretty awesome fight to see. I think Goku would flat-out win if Tien holds back his most dangerous techniques (Kaioken and KiKoHo). The main issue with Tien is likely gonna be his age, especially since he is no Saiyan and such. During the illusion fight Goku needed SSJ2 against Frieza because the realm was making him old fast and he was still having trouble against Frieza even though at normal age Goku could beat Frieza with one punch (as we just saw) in his regular SSJ form so age is definitely a factor, at least with Bardock that Saiyans don't age very fast until they get to very old age and Bardock isn't at that tipping point quite yet. That's gonna make a difference in this case (doesn't always make a difference, like I don't think it would impact Bardock quite as much in the case of this vs Yamcha though I can see that being a thing (might explain why he is close to getting SSJ2 despite being weak and not quite mastering SSJ1.
Oh, and if Tien does use the KiKoHo, Goku is gonna be flatter than a pancake if he doesn't use SSJ forms to defend himself against it. Especially the Nibai KiKoHo.
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Post by Solus on Jan 4, 2022 15:23:28 GMT
Time to digg out some old pages of DBM. At first, let's gauge bardock's strength by comparing him to Cold. That alone isn't as easy as it seems, which is why the opinions differ so much. Piccolo says that Cold in his base form is around C17/C18 level. Or maybe stronger. This implies that C18 and C17 where about equal strength, which already is debatable. But let's assume, Cold is somewhere between C17 and C16. So what do we make of Cold's 100 %? Are we going to assume that C17 and C16 were so far apart, that C16 was twice as strong? If so, we can say, that Cold was around C16's level, no matter what (and if not we have to assume he was even stronger). Bardock lost and it didn't seem to be close, but Cold did indeed get some serious wounds as can be seen in the top right panel. He was bleeding from his nose and his mouth and had a few scratch marks on him. In my opinion this qualifies Bardock as being close in strength.
And now we would have to classify Yamcha's strength. To me it seems as if Yamcha didn't miss the maintenance check, so his power didn't decline. But that only means he's still at C17's power level but with more skill. Skill is important and will win a fight between two even fighters. But in DB skill could never close a bigger gap. And now we need to think about how close the gap between C17 and C16 was. Seeing that Cell was absolutely unimpressed by Piccolo's attack which might have killed C17 right away, I do think they are a good chunk apart. So that means, that Bardock could hold his own against an opponent much more powerful than C17.
And the thing is: You guys suppose that Yamcha would be more skilled than Bardock, because he is a martial artist. That of course gives him a clear edge against all civilians, but Bardock fought all of his life. What are martial arts if not a simulation of real combat? Yamcha really doesn't have an edge over Bardock in that regard. And it's debatable if his power level is even close to Bardock's. So how come you all think Yamcha would win this with ease?
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